start believing what your FWS is saying? I'm not talking about details of the affair, but rather their sentiments about you. That they love you and that they have always loved you.
How can you let go and stop thinking "is that what he said to the OW?"
You are ahead of me. My spouse is reluctant to tell me that he loves me. He says it is obvious that he does. It is not obvious to me. I have told him I need to hear it. He will tell me sometimes in response to me saying that I love him but he has never said it to me on his own.
I struggle with the same thing though. How do I know he has truly changed. Yes, he is here and he does not contact the OW. It has been 5 months since my d-day. I question is he staying with me because he truly does love me or is he just staying because he thinks it is the best for our daughter or because it is convient (I am the primary breadwinner, it would be a major financial adjustment for him, minor for me if we divorced). I don't want him to stay because he needs me or it is easier, I want him to stay because he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. I have told him and I don't know if he listened or not. Anyway, I have decided since I don't have ESP all I can do is watch his actions and try to trust.
It has taken this long for me just to figure out what some of the boundaries I must step. There are OC so it is a little bit different. The no contact rule was easy. But I will have to deal with this the rest of my life, so I need to be sure what I can handle and what I can't. Just keep trusting and verifying what he tells you and watch his actions and you may be able to start believing him. I don't know how long you have been together but I also found if you watching him when he is telling you something you know is true, I mean observe him closely, and also what him when he is telling you something you may doubt or that you know is a lie, note any changes in the way he presents the fact, his eye contact, etc.. I think I really couldn't tell a lot before if he was lying because I honestly did not pay much attention. It may be because we have been together for so long (20 years) that I have found out, it is relatively easy to identify a pattern and increase nervousness when he is lying. I still verify things and the more I do the easier it is for me to believe him. If I catch him in one lie, no matter how big or little, any lie as long as I am able verify that it is not true and he knew what he said was not true, I know I will have to start all over again from the beginning and I don't know if I will have the energy to do it.
Don't rush yourself. I think I was creating more stres on myself by trying to determine how long? I don't think any one can tell you how long. It is different in each case.
You know, that is an awesome question. That was and is a big part of my process of recovery. The prior post had excellent advice, all I can add is my perspective. After D-Day, my H was very very distant. After my anger subsided, a few days later, I chose to tell him that I loved him. He would say, "I know" or "Me too", but never I love you. I even brought that up a few times at MC. In one of my rants at him in MC, I explained that I knew how the OW felt about H and what she was saying to him, "were you telling her that you love her too, and to me, and exactly which one of us were you lying to?" I never got a good answer, and now in hindsight I don't think I want the answer. Then after about 2 or 2 1/2 weeks of having this elephant in the family room that both of us knew was there but didn't approach, he went over to his sisters house on a Sat. night. I of course, had to do all my investigation and checking to see that this was the case, and is was all okay. But before he left, I was kinda down, and he kissed me and looked at me and told me he loved me, all on his own. I just started weeping, that felt so good. After some ups and downs, pot holes and starting from zero again, he must tell me he loves me 10+ times a day. My point is that this is all a process. A long process. You are going through a process, so is your H. Seldom are they on the same track though. What pace you are at is not where H is at. So there is no timetable, you both hopefully will meet at some point and move from there....As long as the NO CONTACT is still in place.....
That is imperative......
I get the sense that the more independent you become (within the relationship), the better.
Being betrayed tends to lower if not destroy a person's self esteem. I personally became overly needy and rested my every mood on what he did, and said for a while. That alone was a phase of recovery.
Another idea to play with might be to examine your own (real) sentiments toward him. You had such a destructive blow after this discovery. Sometimes it's hard to sort out all the new feelings.
Red Wolf-you're bang on with examinng my feelings towards him. I am beginning to think that is a large part of my problem. I don't know how I feel about him anymore and I am sure that is perfectly normal.
I also think that part of my problem is that I DO know his personality. I just read over something I wrote about him in the summer (many months before d-day) where I described him as:
>>Loyal, caring and family is very important to him. He doesn’t hide his emotions well, he is a ‘what you see is what you get’ type of guy and he often runs out of patience with everyone. He is selective in who he befriends and spends time with. <<
It is the "loyal" part and the "selective" part that are killing me. I just never would have thought that he had the personality to enter into an affair, and if he did, it would be 'for good reason' in his mind. Therefore, the trusting his words part of recovery will be a loooonnnnggg slooooooooow process for me.
P.S. Fairyfriend has convinced me that B (which stands for Bitterina) is far too negative, therefore, please call me Lola, my friends do.
Tex, soft groan...if we start posting songs..this thread will be 1000 messages long! (P.S. my friend and I used to listen to that song incessently when we were in gr. 9 (!) and it took me forever to understand that Lola was a man!! La, la, la, la lola)
Funny on the 'back up with actions' b/c I am constantly saying 'Actions speak louder than words'...and here is a kicker, H said to me the other day, after I said the 'actions speak louder than words'...."that is what the OW always said to me"...
HOw do you react to that?? Really? Oh gee--were you telling her how you wanted to spend time with her, but just couldn't b/c the 'old ball and chain' was suspicious??? Were you telling her you wanted to leave, but just couldn't leave your kids?? Ok..maybe B has re-emerged for a brief moment..Deep breath...
AGH--Seriously, right now things are not where I had hoped they would be and I know that I am building walls when I should be building bridges..I guess I feel he is not building any bridges either--at least none that I would trust can hold my weight!
<<<Funny on the 'back up with actions' b/c I am constantly saying 'Actions speak louder than words'...and here is a kicker, H said to me the other day, after I said the 'actions speak louder than words'...."that is what the OW always said to me>>>
Well...you weren't talking about the OW, you are/were discussing his actions towards YOU. He needs to clarify in what context <<<...."that is what the OW always said to me"...>>> that statement was made to you AND made to him by the OW. To me that statement is a "challenge" comment in response to something. You don't make that statement unless you are calling someone on something IMO.
Personally if that was said to me(as a BS) I'd take it as being a dismissive comment to either distract me, blow me off or compare me to the OM.
All those questions you posted...you should consider asking him every damn one of them.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jan 20, 2006 12:36 AM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jan 19, 2006 11:53 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jan 19, 2006 11:31 PM
i just posted on 'what do you need from WS' and i think your question is similar, for me now the lesson is how to learn that what he says is genuine.
nearly 3 years out from the first day, a couple of things have made sense to me in the past few months, that have made me realise he really does love ME.
little things:
- christmas - his mother made me several pairs of earings, home craft type stuff, and they were all in bluish tones. she said "H told me what colours you wear in clothes and jewellery so they would match" i was gobsmacked, i said to him, do you notice that, the colours i wear etc. he said "yes of course." as i said i was stunned, cause i move my rings around a bit, essentially, i have a saphire and diamond engagment ring from him, i still wear my aquamarine and diamond engagment ring (from my first husband, my mother's lady diana ceylon saphire and diamond ring and her solitare diamond ring. mum only died in march so me wearing those is still pretty new. sometimes i wear the lot (diamond lill hahah) but sometimes none at all, but he noticed. my clothes i tend to wear black or blues and he noticed that.
- the word cute. i found on his cell phone descriptions of OW and myself. OW was described as the 'love of my life' i was described as 'the cute one' i have told him never to call me cute ever again. sometimes he does from habit but now he says "sorry wrong word" - his apology makes me realise he is listening to me and i just laugh and say "no that is wrong, i am the love of your life" and he agrees "yes you are"
the word sparkly. i am an alcoholic and in my drinking days i would ring him from work and say i need something sparkly eg champagne. a couple of days ago i had a rough day at work and i said "god i need a prize for this", he said something sparkly maybe, i was a bit stunned and laughed and said ironically 'yeah right'. when i got home from work he had bought cool drinks, eg soda and then said "i couldnt get sparkly drinks so i had to get you this " he presented me with a sworovski (spelling) necklace. i was stunned, i love this stuff and have earings etc but this is the first and only piece of jewellery that he has picked all by himself for me, in SEVEN years haha.
- the word maggot, i call OW maggot, and they have to work together, so occassionally her name has to come up, or i might say how is maggot, he used to flinch and get angry for saying that about her, now he just laughs. recently we heard she broke her knee at work, i laughed and said 'pity it wasnt her neck', he also laughed.
so these are just a couple of examples. all the i love yous, the you are the most gorgeous thing in the world over the past few years have not hit my emotional spot, but his actions over the past few months have.
so as i said in the other post, the challenge for me is now to see and believe his actions, and i think i am finally getting it.
so what in answer to the question about 'when do you..." i think it is about having enough time to digest what has happened, letting your partner know, when you can, what is important to you, and when they try to show it, get to a point where you believe it, or rather stop believing their actions are not a 'bribe' or repentence, but an expression.
hope this helps
kath
ps i am still not out of the woods completely, but i can see the change in him so now i can work on a change in me
oh another thing i just remembered. we are engaged, not married. over the years i have said lets do this marriage thing etc, get it over with, he used to say yes. it is like a running joke between us. then he stopped saying yes, and one day he was honest and said "i dont think i can". of course i got upset but then he explained that he didnt think HE would be a good husband for me because of what he had done. i understood and accepted that and in an odd way was a bit proud of him, that he had worked that out. NOW he says "lets do the marriage thing" and i say "nah i am not ready yet" haha the show is on the other foot, but i can see that he will wait. for him he has sorted out that he wants to marry me and he is prepared to wait for me now to say i shall marry him. i guess that is a little bit of committment hey?
when it happens you are all invited haha
This message has been edited by spirit60 on Jan 20, 2006 9:07 AM
Thank you. I have sent him all those Q's (and some more!) I am just waiting to hear his responses--it's been 4 days now.
And thank you for the insight on 'challenging' me. You know, I have not been able to put my finger on exactly what I feel when we fight and how he is responding to me..and that is it. He is challenging me and deflecting my Q's (or even accusations--hey--we're still in the early stages of discovery!) so that I get distracted from the original Q. Saddest part is that he likely doesn't even realize he is doing it. Lying and deceit have been such a big part of his life for so long (perhaps even all his life) that I fear he may not know the difference.
Spirit--thanks for the encouragement and you and your S are really healing and moving forward in a positive way. Way to go!
Now onto the reality of my life and I must get back to work...
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