I could use some help and guidance from some of you long timers out there. After 6 1/2 months I can say my H has pretty much done everything I have asked of him in regards to the A. And a lot more that I didn't ask for. And yet, I still am haunted by the A, the things they did, the things they said to each other, the lies and deceit, the time that was stolen from us. It occured to me that since my H is bending over backwards to try and make things right again, it is now up to me to step up and do my part. We can't really continue to go forward anymore than we have if I keep "looking in the rear-view mirror" as Chris is so fond of saying. How do I get into that mindset of not looking back? If a negative thought enters my head and I refuse to think about it at that time will that really help? Aren't I just refusing to deal with it?
I keep coming back to the idea of acceptance before I can move on. I still cannot accept what happened no matter how hard I try. It plays over and over in my head constantly. He's trying so hard so why can't I do this? Is it my way of making him "pay" for what he has done? Am I going to make him pay for it till the day one of us dies? The problem is that the longer I refuse to accept it, the longer I am paying for it too with the hurt and sadness and anger. It's as if I'm refusing to let myself be happy again and reminding him constantly that he's the reason why.
How do I move through this? The stumbling block to us moving forward now is me, not him. If anyone has any real, concrete things I can do I'd appreciate hearing what they are. It was much easier telling him what I thought he needed to do! Thanks guys.
There is a lot to think about and try to absorb in that post. Thank you. I have always believed as Aristotle, that everything we do is ultimately for our own pleasure. I just never knew there was a name for it. Eudaimonia. Have to remember that. I believe that even when we perform what on the surface seem to be selfless acts like helping out a sick friend, contributing $ to a good cause, etc., we are doing it because it makes us happy. That's why I'm having such a difficult time figuring out why I keep revisiting all these hurtful, harmful thoughts? I know I must be getting something out of it. I just haven't been able to figure out what. I will reread "for us-to us" again and try asking myself some of the questions in it to see if I can finally come up with some answers for myself.
Angela, sometimes it's as simple (and as difficult) as "just do it".
The advice from a friend on these forums that helped me the most came after we had a long (and fun) discussion of personality types (using the Myers-Briggs type indicators from an online test).
Because I am primarily a "thinking" type person (and that is a major understatement), I came to the same point as you have because I didn't know how to understand and to work through my feelings. I had to do a lot of work on myself at that point. For my part, I was so angry for so long that my marriage never recovered, although the root of my anger was that my then-wife did NOT do what was necessary to fix her part of things.
But the truth is this: I got stuck in that anger. Oh, it was righteous anger and indignation, but I chose to stay there. I slammed the car into park and fixed my gaze in the rearview for a long, long time until I taught myself to STOP playing those old "tapes" in my head.
I kept telling myself I couldn't go forward until SHE changed. The truth is, I couldn't go forward until I saw that I needed to change.
This seems like a good place for a snippet from TS Eliot's "Four Quartets" that Quinn and I have almost elevated to scripture around here:
"With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."
I think it's hard for us BS to do our part because we are dealing with so much pain & emotions.It makes it hard to even want to do our part.I've been really down the last few days.I guess my H is trying hard too but it doesn't make up for what he did.
Eventually I had to come to the point where I lost the notion that my wife must somehow "make up for what she did", or that she owed me something other than doing the right things as we went on. (I would hasten to add that she could never do that...our attempts at marital counseling tended to be "backward looking" and very frustrating as a result. I couldn't fix my mistakes any other way than by not repeating them...but I had to know what they were and know that they would not be held against me forever.)
No one can turn back time. No one can go backward and fix a mistake. And I have come to believe that there is no "making up" for my mistakes...so I must extend that courtesy to those around me.
All I can change is today, tomorrow, and beyond. All I can do about yesterday is to accept it. When someone is trying hard (and suceeding) in avoiding the same old mistakes, I think that is enough for me. It will have to be enough for my next wife, too.
Angela - What our spouses did to us is so horrendous I cant find words to describe. Your betrayal is still very new. You have to give it a lot of time. Tell your H to keep being supportive even when you are having a bad day. Get a good therapist if you can. I am 10 months past d day and my bad days are fewer thanks to therapy, marriage counseling, and my H doing everything I ask of him (well almost everything). I am acting "as if" but I break down occasionally, and still have frequent thoughts about their deceiving me, having sex, etc. Then I use his toothbrush to clean the toiletbowl.
How to let go? Boy, don't I wish I knew the answer to that one. I could write a book and we'd all be rich! LOL
First, just wanting to let go/change is the first step. Sometimes we get comfortable in one particular place (Anger, Self-Pity, Sadness, etc.) and it takes us a long time to realize we want to feel different. It's your choice. You must first choose to acknowledge that there’s a problem and then you must choose to do something about it.
First, know that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry.
Second, learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. Know that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions remember not to personalize things. God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It's just life happening.
Third, build bridges instead of walls.
Fourth, believe you are doing the best ou can with the understanding, awareness and knowledge that you have. As you gain more of this, you'll do things differently. If a thought or belief does not serve you, let it go. There is no written law that says because once you believed something you have to continue to believe it forever.
and Five,do not settle for peace based on outward circumstances or a particular arrangement in your life.
Sometimes it’s hard not to see the suffering, but more often it’s hard not to see the joy. I believe that we usually find what we’re looking for, I am looking for Hope. I am looking for Faith in Humanity, I am looking for Love.
Looks like a pretty good start on that book there, Never. So we'll ALL be rich? Do you need someone to hook you up with a good ergonomic keyboard so you can start typing like NOW!
You'll find all those things, Cynthia. I know you will sooner than later.
I get these daily brain teaser thingies/mentalrobic challenge thingies... This one was ESPECIALLY interesting to me. I guess it can't hurt to try!
Pavlovian De-stressor
Similar to how Pavlov's dog had associated food with the sound of a bell, it's possible to program your mind to associate some stimuli with being in a relaxed and calm state. This can be a very effect way of coping with stress.
The first step is to find a trigger that you can use on yourself. It should be something that doesn't happen in a normal day. Maybe it could be sticking a finger in your ear, pinching the back of your hand, or taking a whiff from one of your scent canisters.
The second step is to associate this trigger with the state of being calm and relaxed. Try to conjure up a vivid memory of a time in the past when you were totally at peace. Try to recreate all the sounds, smells and images. Once you think you have a good visualization, program it into your mind by sticking your finger in your ear, or whatever else you have chosen to be your trigger. In the future, whenever you are naturally feeling calm and relaxed you should reinforce your trigger by doing it.
Now that you have programmed your mind to associate the trigger with a relaxed state, you can use it whenever you feel stressed. Simply activate your trigger and you will immediately start feeling more relaxed.
Monica
This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot
If your H ahs truly done what you have asked and then some, well, you have to make the choice and say "Ok, now it's up to me" and you have done that. The next step is much harder and takes time. The next step is to ACT, yes I said ACT, like an actress, and do loving things towards your H. Eventually you will no longer be acting, your actions will be your own because they are what you want to do. Sometimes we need to just DO...doing certain things cause us to feel a certain way. So the theory is if we "act" in loving ways we will "feel" love in doing loving things....or something like that, lol.
I like to look at it this way: I gained 10 pounds. I need to go to the gym to get rid of the extra weight. I really dont feel compelled to go to the gym and I have a hundred reasosns why not, even though I know it's what I need to do if I want to lose the weight. But what if I work really hard at the gym and I dont lose the weight? Well, I have to get there and I have to try or I will never lose the weight. You have to set your mind to it and just do it! Take a leap of faith as I like to say
Thanks for all the good ideas everyone. I don't know if it was coming to this decision that it is up to me now or what, but I have been having a very difficult week. I feel like I am carrying a whole new burden. I know I have to let go and yet my head or heart or both won't let me. I try to play the actress and pretend, as much as I can, that I'm doing alright. Sometimes I'm better at it than at other times. I acknowledge to my H all that I see he is doing. But I'm still obsessing about the past. And this week I couldn't seem to shake it at all. My H told me this morning to leave work at work so that this weekend we could have an enjoyable weekend since he knew how down I was. I want to be happy but how can I truly be happy knowing what I now know? Knowing the things he felt, said, and did during the A makes happiness now seem like a lie. He made a fool of me for so long. I feel like if I "let go" of all those thoughts and feelings I have regarding the A, that I would then be making a fool of myself. It's one thing when someone else makes a fool of you but to do it to yourself is a whole nother matter. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else but me but it's how I feel. I think. I'm not even sure anymore.
All I know for sure is that he's trying his damndest and I'm still hurt, sad, angry, and confused about his feelings for me (not because he hasn't told me and shown me but because I still can't reconcile his love for me now with all that he did to me before).
I'm trying to build bridges although I don't think anyone should attempt to walk on them just yet. I try to look forward but someone keeps turning that damn rearview mirror so that I can't help but see into it. I'll give the Pavlovian de-stresser a try. I'll keep reading and acting and who knows, hopefully I'll make progress. Since I can't undo what happened, which is what I REALLY WANT, it's about all I can do.
Well, my H is wanting to take me to dinner now so I'm outa here. And I WILL have a good time!
I know what you mean Angela. I'm still hurt, angry & sad too. I was talking to H on the phone today & he asked me if I was ever going to trust him & I said "probably not". I wasn't going to lie to him. I don't feel like it would ever be safe to trust him because of the fact that he lied for several yrs. How the hell can you lie like that to someone who is supposed to be the most important person in your life. I don't know how people that do that can live with themselves! I am beginning to think that maybe I can't get over what he did. I had a few good weeks but now it's back to this. The A is with me 24/7.At least I don't hate him anymore. That was a big thing for me to get over. I wish that I could stop thinking about him for awhile & just deal with myself. I went to the JC Penneys hair salon last nite & used the gift card that my 18 yr. old gave me, to get the front of my hair feathered. Now I want to lose the weight that I've gained thru all of this. I hate the way I look right now. I want to lose the 30 lbs I've gained.It's just hard for me to do when I'm so unhappy.I almost wish that my H & marriage didn't mean so much to me. Then this wouldn't hurt so much.I don't want to care about my H that much anymore.It's not worth it.I have actually thought about working on not caring about him anymore so that he can't hurt me anymore. It's still something that I am considering. Just kind of detatch from him & just be nice to him but kind of fall out of love with him.I am tired of loving him this much. All it got me is this A mess.I know what you mean about trying to be a good actress. Isn't it a shame that we have to spend our time acting like we're o.k.!!! After a week or so I find it harder & harder to do & then I go downhill & feel like this. UGH!!!!! Hang in there Angela! I guess it has to get better sooner or later.
I just thought of something. Isn't it funny that our WS are putting effort into trying to fix things BUT they didn't put much effort into being faithful & honest. Kinda like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.
I know what you mean. If only they had put this much effort into the marriage before. There are alot of "if onlys" regarding the A. I make myself crazy with them but just have to keep telling myself we can't go back. That's hard for me to accept. I just want this all to go away. I want to wake up one day and find out it was just a horrible nightmare. Ain't gonna happen unfortunately.
I too had thought of just emotionally distancing myself from him to spare myself the pain. Kinda like what he must have done during the A. I'm not proud to say it but I did that for a short period of time at one point in our marriage. We were having some problems (nothing like this) and that was my solution. Well, I didn't feel any pain. But then, I didn't feel ANYTHING. No joy either. In the end, it was not a good way to live. I want to experience happiness and joy with my husband. If that means dealing with the pain then that is what I have to learn to do. It is just so damn hard but then I guess nothing in life that is really worthwhile comes easy. They say (that ambiguous "they") that one cannot know happiness without knowing sadness. Well, if that's the case then all of us here should look forward to being really, really, really, happy one day!
In some ways, dare I say this, our marriage IS better now. We don't take each other for granted. At least we're trying not to. We show the other person they are loved and appreciated. We try not to hold things in. If we have questions, we ask. We both have a tendency to read things into what the other person says. If one of us says something to the other that bugs them, we ask for clarification. Did they really mean that? because that's how it was taken. We may not ask immediately, but we are learning to ask. That helps. We are making time to do things together, have fun together, and enjoy each other's company. That may sound so simple but we got into a rut of being too busy with work, family, and other obligations and quite often that together time was last on the list. (If it made it on the list at all sometimes!) So, yes, in some ways things are alot better. I know we are on the right track. Sometimes someone flips the switch and we start going in a different direction. Then we try to get back on course as quickly as we can before we end up somewhere we don't want to be.
I know we can be happy again as a couple if we keep working at it. Seems it shouldn't take work but it does. And I really need to work on me now so that we can heal. I'm trying. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fall flat on my face. I just have to learn to pick myself up and keep going. It's the only way we will reach the coveted prize of a happy, healthy marriage again.
As a sidenote, a very important one I might add, my H found a part-time job. He's been looking for full-time, first or third shift. He was offered full-time, second shift, Wed. through Sun. We talked about it but for the sake of our marriage decided it just couldn't be. We would never see each other. And we need to have time together if we want our marriage to work. So, he accepted the part-time offer they made which is third shift. They know he wants full-time and will keep it in mind if something opens up. And they know he will continue to look elsewhere for full-time and they understand that. So, it's a start and he starts next week. Maybe things are starting to look up.
Barbara, hang in there. You can do this. I can do this. We're made of strong stuff. And when we fall apart it's good to know there are so many people here willing to help and offer advice and a kick in the pants too if need be. We just have to start focusing not on what we have lost but on what we have to gain.
Hugs to you.
Angela
This message has been edited by Poorlittlefool on Jan 28, 2006 11:32 AM
Hi Angela! I'm glad your H was able to find a job. Mine is still unemployed but hopefully something will show up soon. Yes, I know we can make things work with our marriages. I just have times like this when I really don't know if I want him in my life anymore. I think why do I want him after what he's done.Guess that's all normal too.
Think about your H for a minute and what he was like before the A. Why did you want him then? That's why you want him now. Maybe some of those things went by the wayside for awhile like him putting you above anyone else and his trustworthiness to name a couple. But if he is truly sorry and working on it and is being honest now, you can get that back again. You will have the H you had before. And you will both be a little wiser now so that you can keep what you have this time around.
I just really don't know if I can ever have my "old H" back. Maybe it's just the way I see him now but to me he's not really the same guy he use to be.He never use to raise his voice or argue & now he does. I just am having a hard time right now & am thinking that maybe I don't want to be with him anymore. I don't trust him because of what he did.The other nite on the phone I told him that I didn't know if this relationship was going to work anymore. I just have thoughts sometimes when I want to say "You blew it,I'm done". Right now I don't know if I'm here because I'm too lazy to start over or if I really want to be here.It varies from week to week. Don't know which feelings to act on.Wish I could take a "time out" from my life. I'm almost back to thinking that I want him to leave for awhile but the sad truth is that I don't trust him enough to have him move out for awhile. The logical side of me knows he can cheat even if he's here but the crazy side of me would worry like crazy if I had him leave for awhile. Plus I am a bit afraid that if I had him leave for awhile, I wouldn't want him back.Damn, these sound like my posts from a few months ago. Maybe I'm not improving any!This stuff takes way too much energy!!!!!
"Damn, these sound like my posts from a few months ago. Maybe I'm not improving any!This stuff takes way too much energy!"
Barb
I assure you what you are going through is very normal and believe it or not you likely are improving whether is seems that way or not. While it isn't fun, we've all gone through that back and forth thinking. You may notice that when your thinking swings back to how you felt a week or two ago in a more positive direction that it took less time to do so this time. It is still all a shock to you and it takes time to think positively all the time about your marriage, or at least I think it does.
Thanks Charlie! Today was a really bad day but tonite is going better. We fought last nite over the phone & today I told him I wanted to leave & that I hated him. I told him maybe we should just get a divorce. Then I calmed down & we talked ,& made love. I still wish all this up & down shit would stop. I know I'm driving my H crazy too!!!
