I was just wondering what you all thought of that phrase? Once a cheater always a cheater? And how you respond to it from family or friends who know about the situation? I am trying to decide if I believe this... my bf of 3.5 years cheated earlier this summer and I am debating about whether I could see myself getting married to him. So, any and all thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.
Also, a friend of mine said to me the other day... if he was your soulmate, soulmates don't hurt you like that... if he loved you like he says he does, he wouldn't have cheated? Part of me totally agrees, but another part knows he's human and wants to give it another chance... I want to defy the odds that say it can't work... can anyone else relate to this and am I crazy?
It's hard to know what to believe. I do believe that most people will cheat again. Some character flaw or something. I don't know why I'm still with my H because I don't trust him after what he did.I would be very carefully about marrying someone who has already cheated on you. Has he gotten councilling to figure out why he did it? How did you find out? Did he come forward with the info or did you have to play detective? Only you know what is best for you but I would be very careful. Marriage is a hard thing to make work even without the A history. Love is not enough to make a marriage or keep it together. Take care.
No, I don't agree that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is true. BUT, and it's a big one, I do think that something inside the "cheater" has to fundamentally change from the experience for them to reform. Some people are willing and able to do that while others are not. Only your BF knows if he's willing and able to do the work necessary to prevent a reoccurance. Has his behavior changed since you found out about the A? Was it a one night stand or an ongoing relationship? Did he confess or did you find out? Most importantly, what does your gut say about whether or not you trust him now? Rebuilding your relationship is hard work, on both sides. Are you both willing to put in that kind of effort?
Everyone has to make decisions for themselves, but if it were my friend in your situation I would encourage her to run like the wind. Yes, it may seem like 3 1/2 years is a long time to lose out on. I wouldn't want her to take the chance of waking up miserable in five more years from now thinking that she had the perfect chance to get out but didn't. I wouldn't wish anyone the agony of the decisions I've had to make after 11 years of marriage and a 16 year relationship. Listen to your mind as well as your heart on this one and make the decision that feels right to you. Good luck!
Yes I had to find out myself... but we have gone to counseling together since and he really has changed. He has told me he was scared to get married, and he has some past issues with his mom cheating on his dad resulting in divorce. He sees marriage as forever, divorce is not an option and was scared to be down that path with me. I feel that he has made his best faith effort to change and is truly sorry, but I don't know if I can ever get over him doing what he did (its been 5 months now). I know everyones story is different so I don't really know why I ask for others advice and everyone seems to tell me to get out... but besides this cheating (which I know is huge) he seems perfect for me and he truly seems confident in the fact that he has dealt with what was going on within himself and he is not going to make that mistake again.
How does he deal with other things in life that he is "scared" about?Does he lie about other things or just not deal with difficulties in life , or does he face challenges head on? There is no one that is perfect for us. Love tends to blind us to things. You have to do what is best for you. Just be careful. None of us here thought our W/H or boyfriend/girlfriend was capable of doing what they did.I wish you the best.I wouldn't rush into marriage. I was with my H for about 9 yrs. before we married & never ever thought he would do anything like having an A.
This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Feb 23, 2006 7:14 PM
Well - in terms of how he responds to things he is scared of... he usually talks to me and I try to make things better. This was obviously a time when in his opinion talking to me was not an option. We have gone to counseling and I really feel like our communication has gotten a lot better. He swore to me he would never cheat on me... because of what happened with his parents yet it did. Now he claims he is confident enough in himself to know what to do and to deal appropriately if he is ever feeling this way again. He knows he would get caught like he did last time and he is sorry and feels like crap over what he did. He has told me... don't you realize that talking about how I have hurt you makes me want to hurt myself? I keep thinking that people do have the ability to change... and not make mistakes again. For example... when I was little I stole something and then felt so bad about it that it never happened again. But I really don't know if you can compare those two examples. I know to be careful... it would be at least 2 years until we even thought about getting married. I just want to "know" what to do. The A wasn't long... a month maybe, and it happened right before I came back from school and was very off and on again... they both claim that it wasn't emotional... just dating... none of this makes it any better but I try to tell myself that he didn't love her and it was his weakness that led to this all. Any other opinions on this all?
You can't really "Know" what to do. You can't control what another person does or will do. My H & I always said we would never cheat on each other But after being together for 17 yrs., I find out that a person's words don't mean much. You just have to take your chances one way or the other. My advice would be to never blindly trust anyone & to always listen to your gut feelings.
>>Well - in terms of how he responds to things he is scared of... he usually talks to me and I try to make things better....I try to tell myself that he didn't love her and it was his weakness that led to this all. Any other opinions on this all?<<
Yes, and I won't agree with you either.
You are not his mother, and that's what he's looking for. Anyone who looks outside himself "to make things better" (your words) is not good marriage material. He's still too much a wounded little boy. That's fine if you want to be his mommy...
The cheating (in my opinion) wasn't about love, but it was about trying to fill a hole or a hurt inside himself. You weren't even in the equation. If you want a marriage that's never about you, he's a good candidate.
So while I wouldn't say "once a cheater always a cheater", I would say that someone with "issues" needs to work hard on resolving those issues before marriage.
Ok everyone is different I understand. But my advice to you would be RUN! RUN! RUN AWAY!! AN DON"T LOOK BACK!
Ok, now that I got that out of my system. I always believed that phrase and even said it to my H's wife, when she knocked on my door, I said I don't want him I am sorry, I never would have went out with him if I knew he was married (which was the truth), he said he was divorced, if he would cheat on you he would cheat on me!
This was after the morning after our first date. I meant what I said and I told him to stay away several times. And then weeks later when he had been kicked out of the house, I trusted my 'gut' and went out with him again. Married 3 years, he has an ONS but doesn't confess until one year later and forgets to say a child was born. I agree to forgive and rationale some of his behavior, married too young to first w, etc.. Married 19 years and get a call from the OW, the day after my 19th anniversary, that not only did he have a 16 year old d as the result of the 1st ONS but also had a 10 year old son by the same woman, because "it" just happened one time he was secretly visiting the 1st child. I am a very educated woman and don't have any severe mental defects that have been diagnosed and I can't believe I trusted my 'gut' for so long. Yes, I has suspicions from time to time but rationalized them away I guess. So many years it is hard to thing about it.
His reasoning, did he come up with that on his own or has he been to counseling. My opinion is those who cheat MM or OW have some deep personal issues that cause it. GF or W aren't the cause. The may be responsible for health of relationship but not for the A. The reason why I ask this is because it sounds like a line to me. He could be so messed up he doesn't realize what love is. The first thing in our m counseling was a homework assignment, each to search out and write down the standard we each have for love and then come back and compare the two, are they similiar or are they not? Demand counseling or break off the relationship.
How to respond to friends and family? Don't. Don't worry about it. What you decide is your decision.
Do you mind if I ask how old are you and is this the longest relationship you have been in thus far in your life?
Yes we went to counseling... we went six or seven times and then the counselor said he like where we were going and that we should come back and see him together if we experienced any bumps or issues along the way. I still see the counselor on my own occationally to deal with some of this stuff. In response to the "mommy" thing from another post... I can see how one would think that and yes sometimes I do feel like a mom... however, not that often. What I meant by my... I try to fix it is, I will listen, tell him I love him and that everything will be okay and do what I can to help. Whether it is actually helping or bouncing ideas off of him. This is what I have come to expect of him too. Sometimes... he can "fix" things with just a hug and I can "fix" thinks by rubbing his stomach or back... it sounds lame I know...
Back to the other question... I am 23 and yes this is the longest relationship I have been in. He moved to go to college down here with me a year after we had been together. It was long distance for the first year.
I hope you aren't thinking down of me or that I am naive. I may be, but I also don't need to be judged anymore. I know what I am feeling and thinking and it is very real. (No harshness intended).
I know that if I decided to be without him I will be okay... I am going to school to be a pharmacist and am getting my master's. I am driven, I have great friends and family. I just don't know if I want to have my life NOT include him. I truly did think he was my soulmate before all this and still hope he is. But I have some doubts... for obvious reasons. Now I am just trying to decide what I want, need and deserve... I know eventually if this continues on that I deserve to be happy and so I am just trying to decide if I can be happy.
Here's my take on it. No. I have gotten to know a few people who have deeply owned their spouses or significant others pain and been horribly sorry they went down that road. They were remorseful and I don't believe they would ever do it again. They knew it was wrong even when it was happening and have figured out how to stay out of that situation in the future.
That said, I also believe (and this is personal) that many "will" cheat again. Why? Because I think many cheaters don't look inside themselves to figure out what "they" did wrong, they put the blame on their SO or spouse and justify why they did it. Also, it seems over the years that many cheaters also can't control other aspects in their lives and often have other addictions besides a sexual one, i.e. alcohol, drugs, porn, whatever and unless they try to figure out the how and why's of what they are doing, they are bound to repeat the same mistake.
I feel it is a bigger problem when someone cheats before they ever even marry. My take on it is this. I don't think a spouse really cheats easily the first time they are thinking of doing it. The first time I would imagine any rational person would feel guilty, know it's wrong and think they should avoid it but for some reason of their own, they commit this selfish act. I feel that making a decision to cheat by a spouse would affect that person cheating more harshly than it would someone dating only because they have made a vow and a committment. It was likely hard for them to cheat the first time but they've been with this person for a long time and they might be a little bored because the newness or excitedness may be gone from the relationship. They share many hardships together. Raising a family and arguing over money could be common.
In a dating relationship that newness probably isn't gone from the relationship yet so what is the reason for cheating? It seems more likely to happen when things become more routine in a relationship and after marriage that often happens. It only gets harder to stay faithful when things are dull in a relationship or you're feeling negative about some aspect of your relationship more so than you ever did when you were dating. If they couldn't stay faithful in a dating relationship, why on earth would one believe they could stay faithful in a marriage where things aren't as exciting, you share money and many responsibilities, etc.
This is just my opinion and I know it may not apply to all cases. I can tell you that after being cheated on in a long marriage, I would never take a chance on someone who cheated when I was dating. It is a huge RED FLAG!
I read all of your responses (thank you) and understand to root of what you are saying yet try to think my relationship will be different. Can you tell from my responses that I want to defy everyone? Why can't I just say... what everyone is saying makes sense? Why can't the act of what he did repulse me so much that I don't want to to ever talk or see him again? Why does it make me want to fight harder and "prove" my relationship? I just can't see myself without him and I don't think I want to... yet I know Statistically that would be the best choice.
"Why can't I just say... what everyone is saying makes sense?"
Well, I don't know the answer to that question but my best guess is because you love him. I loved my ex and tried to stay married to him as well after he cheated but he never did give the complete and honest truth even though for a good year I thought he was extremely remorseful. He just got better at hiding things.
"Why can't the act of what he did repulse me so much that I don't want to to ever talk or see him again?"
Same guess as above for me.
"Why does it make me want to fight harder and "prove" my relationship? I just can't see myself without him and I don't think I want to... yet I know Statistically that would be the best choice."
I think all of us think the way you are thinking honestly. You have to do what you feel is right to do and I don't think anyone on this site would tell you to do otherwise even if we do give opinions. If you just give up and don't at least try, could you be sorry that you made that decision later? If you stay will you be sorry later? I certainly thought both of those tihngs when my ex first cheated (or the first I found out about it anyway.) We all want to believe not only that our spouses would never commit such an act in the first place but also that they wouldn't repeat it again. I'm not saying this is you but it was certainly me, I wanted to believe him also because I shared children and I was committed to him and I had a fear of anything different. I'm not sure I realized that at the time but I started to realize it after we separated.
You asked for our opinions and we gave them. Only you can make this decision for yourself and I truly hope that if you do stay with him that he won't repeat it.
Hope you don't think we're ganging up on you. I guess we're just trying to say "Be Careful". I don't know why I'm still with my H either. I guess I want to believe that he can once again be the honest, commited person that he was. Besides, this is my 2nd marriage & right now I just don't feel like starting over. He was a great guy all those yrs. & I guess I'm dumb enough to give him a chance. Just take lots of time to think things thru & make sure that you do what is best for you.You don't want to waste alot of years of your life in a relationship with someone that isn't totally honest with you.
None of us likes to admit that the person we love more than anything else in the world did a horrible thing to us. I thought that only "lower class" people would find themselves in the kind of situation I'm in. But obviously this type of behavior crosses all economic and social lines. Just because you're a smart, educated woman in other areas of your life doesn't mean you will make good choices in your love life (lots of us on the board are perfect examples). You are certainly on the right track by confronting your BF with all these issues and seeking counseling, both as a couple and for yourself. You do not owe us, your friends, your family, or even your BF any explanation for your decision once it is made. Only you can decide what is right for you. Please just keep your eyes and ears open, and trust your gut no matter how hard that is - whether you stay with your BF or move on. I don't know if this applies to your situatin, but one thing I learned during counseling is that we each have our own expectations of what a marriage is based on the behavior that was modeled for us as we grew up. I came from a loving, stable two parent home so I thought my marriage would be like theirs. My H came from a home with unmarried parents who constantly fought and had lots of issues before his mom passed away at a young age so he had a totally different view of marriage. Has your BF addressed his fears of what M really is and does he understand that his father's example may be driving some of his actions? I don't say this to excuse what your BF did - he is a grown man and nobody made him have an A, but I wonder if he's really learned why. Just food for thought.... please take care.
I think I really like many of the things that Charlie has said. I also agree that you look past the logic of what has been said because you love him. Are you naive to think things will be different for you? Perhaps, but we all think that when we get married. But there is one thing I have learned through all of this is that love is not enough to sustain a marriage long term. Most married couples can truly live off love for the first 2-3 years, but then things start to get a lot harder, and much more complicated, especially if you buy a house and children come along. At this point there is way more to marriage than love...we call it reality. How will he handle reality if he couldnt handle getting married in the first place? That is something I would certainly ask myself at this point.
If your BF can address the childhood issues he feels was the cause of his cheating and learn to deal with them then there is some hope, but I must agree that to cheat prior to marriage has issues all on it's own. I dont know him but I can take a guess and say in addition to the childhood issues, he is just plain old not ready to get married. I certainly would not go through with marrying some one who was not ready...in the end you will only be hurting yourself and if you have any children it will only complicate the matter.
I guess what I am saying is to wait. See if the changes he has made are permanent or just a temporary fix (many go back to old ways within several months) and also to see how you feel as well. Right now you yourself are unsure. It has been 20 months since d-day for me and I still dont know if I want to stay in this marriage. So just dont rush into anything until you are both sure, which can take some time.
>>Back to the other question... I am 23 and yes this is the longest relationship I have been in.<<
Pardon me for putting it quite this way, but you're young...still in school...not yet established in life. (My older son is just a couple years younger than you are.) After you get your graduate degree done, after you choose a place to live (after all, there is a need for pharmacists EVERYWHERE), then start to think about marriage. I'd give it two years AFTER you get your degree and a job. School relationships have a way of deteriorating after school is over.
---Back to the other question... I am 23 and yes this is the longest relationship I have been in. He moved to go to college down here with me a year after we had been together. It was long distance for the first year.
I hope you aren't thinking down of me or that I am naive. I may be, but I also don't need to be judged anymore. I know what I am feeling and thinking and it is very real. (No harshness intended).
I do not intend to offend. I am 37 years old now (married 19 years). I meet my H when I was 16 and married him one year later when I was 17. First ONS was within 1st 3 years of our marriage (when I was 20 and not a Christian). He confessed a year later (when I was 21) but forgot to mention a child was born as a result. WHen he confessed he begged, cried, pleaded, got on his knees and everything, I said OK I will forgive you but if you ever do it again, there will not be a second chance. I will leave, do not have anything to do with her again. He promised. I know now that within the first 2 or 3 years after that he would go to see "the child" at the OW's home for a couple of hours maybe 2-4 times a year and that was it. When I was 27 and our d was around 4, my H lost his job and was diagnosed with depression. He had continued the visits and that is when they both alleged another ONS happened and 2nd child conceived. Visits must have increase and maybe A started up again in 2002-2004. My d-day wasn't until Aug 2005. I tell you this because looking back, I didn't deal with the problem properly the first time. We should have went to counseling then or I shouldn't have stayed. What I have found is that I have many friends who dated in high school and then later married in their early 20s. There is noting wrong with this and I am not judging you in any way, I am trying to share what little wisdom I have because of my age. Anyway, most of the friends, in fact all of the friends except one who dated in hs and married have since divorced. I can see now that in general, a 16-18 doesn't see things the same way, as a 19-25 year old, or as a 25-30 year old and so one.
Why did I not leave my H of 19 years of marriage when I found out he has 2 children by another woman whom he has lied about and visited over the years? I don't know. I asked myself that often. I can look back and see my mistakes now, but hindsight is usually 20/20 or close to it.
The decision to marry or not to marry is yours and yours alone. I just urge you to proceed at extreme caution. I know how your heart must feel right now, I know the pain but I also know that you experience an overwhelming love for your bf also. It is so easy to rationalize another's actions when you love them and you are so close to the situation. I hope your bf has learned his lesson.
Take your time. Be cautious in your decisions. It is great that you have already when to counseling. Try what you have learned for the next 3-6 months but pay attention to all things, even little things. It may be a good idea for you to start a journal.
I'm alittle late to this thread but here's my 2 cents for what its worth.
<<< but I also don't need to be judged anymore.>>>
I don't see any judgement in the posts, just concern for you.
Charlie said<<<I feel it is a bigger problem when someone cheats before they ever even marry>>>
I couldn't agree more. 3 Yrs in and he's cheating already because he's scared? What happens the next time he gets scared and its something you can't fix with a backrub or make it alright to his satisfaction? Don't start laying the groundwork for him to use you as the fallguy when things go wrong for him. If you do end up getting married down the line how you respond and react NOW is going to dictate the course your marriage will go. I doubt any of the ladies here want/wanted a 40 or 50 yr old man that strikes out like a child when things get tough. You are teaching him how to treat you right NOW. Remember that.
<<<He has told me he was scared to get married>>>
Ok, read between the lines here. He's not ready. Period. Take the marriage equation off the table at least until like Chris mentioned you have established yourself.
Perhaps the best thing right now would be to finish school and see how he's worked on HIS issues with an IC during that time.
Personally I don't agree with "once a cheater always a cheater". However I do believe a person with issues will always have those same issues until they are dealt with. Even if they never cheat again they will come out in other ways i.e. drinking, drugs, you name it.
Although couples counselling might be good for now IMO he needs I.C. His issues are just that...his. He needs to work through them on his own.
Time is not your enemy here...use it.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Feb 24, 2006 10:45 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Feb 24, 2006 10:36 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Feb 24, 2006 10:33 PM
Thanks to all who responded. Rest assured I am in NO HURRY to get married. I guess the main reason why I asked the question in the first place was because I have the habit of not dating people unless I can see myself marrying them. Call it crazy if you will, but if I am dating someone but don't see a future... why waste my time and opportunities when I could be meeting other people who could be mr. right. So I was just trying to decide if I could even picture a future with him. We almost broke it off this weekend over a huge fight in which I keep throwing everything back in his face despite his trying. I deserve to be happy but so does he. He is working hard to make me happy and I have to at least try. That's how a relationship works. Call me crazy if you will, but almost breaking up made me realize that I must somehow see a possible future... not a garuntee of one, but maybe a hope and a we'll see how it goes... if we are happy, then we will continue to work on being happy. I think one thing that I forget is that he is hurting too over what he has done to the person he loves most. Yesterday he told me that everyday he has to live with knowing what he has done and he doesn't like to be reminded of what an awful person he was. I am not excusing his behavior but I am saying that realizing what he was feeling about the whole situation and that he TRULY is sorry and would take it all back if he could meant a lot to me. Does this mean I am going to marry him... I don't know... for now it means he makes me smile and I trust his actions and words. Maybe that is all we every have. My counselor keeps telling me I want a garuntee and that the only person I can be accountable for is myself. Anyways, I am happy right now. I have listened to what everyone has had to say, I am saving it for my own records to look back on and reflect occationally, and I will not even think about getting married for at least another 2 years (when I graduate) and if I choose to take that path with him or whomever I will listen to my gut and my heart and find a balance which is hopefully right for me. Anyways, thanks all! Have a good start to the week.
and I can't believe I trusted my 'gut' for so long. Yes, I has suspicions from time to time but rationalized them away I guess. So many years it is hard to thing about it.