It has been 2 and a half months since I discovered my wife has been unfaithful.
She asked if she could go on a girls trip to celebrate a friends birthday. I trusted her and agreed. It was for four days. I discovered correspondence between her and her "other" two months after she got back.
When I confronted her she at first blamed me for not being attentive, not loving her enough, etc.
I found out that one of the women who went with her (there were four) was a player, and has had numerous affairs. They all drank very heavily that weekend, and the one woman organized a session where they all sat around and trashed their husbands. They all agreed to go out to the bars and find some action. None stayed faithful to their husbands.
There have been many ripples from this aside from the pain and marital strife. The other women from the trip have pulled back from my wife, because they know I am holding a smoking gun. I have yet to tell the other husbands, but the more I ponder it, the more I believe they have a right to know.
She has said some of the right things so far, but I know there is a long way to go. She doesn't trust me, for fear I will retaliate with a fling of my own, or leave. I don't trust her for obvious reasons.
I believe, even after 18 years of marriage, my wife is the most beautiful woman I know. It is incredibly painful to reconcile her walking into a bar, getting drunk, and having sex with a man she didn't even know.
She has told me that she wants me to have an affair of my own, so I would know how bad she feels, but this is not a card I am about to play.
I am sure some have had similar experiences. The anguish is paralyzing.
She tells me she needs to move past it, but she respects my need to take my time to heal. Things were rough before this, and her day to day anger made communication very difficult.
I feel that since my discovery, I have been the one who has been the watchdog, the caretaker of the relationship. I need to see her making changes as well. The prior hostility is gone, but much about the marriage is still all about her, although she doesn't see it, and was shocked when I told her so.
She gets jumpy when I tell her I need to play this out, and not that I am with her for good, but...I need to see who my wife really is. I am not so sure anymore.
This message has been edited by JayR1 on Mar 10, 2006 11:10 PM
Welcome to the site. I'm sorry you had to find us. Everyone here understands the pain you are feeling.
I believe it was our Forum Owner, R.W., who has stated on more than one occasion how much alcohol plays on role in infidelity. It seems especially true in ONS's.
<<<The other women from the trip have pulled back from my wife, because they know I am holding a smoking gun.>>>
Regardless of the reason to put it bluntly with friends like that who needs enemies? Especially enemies of the marriage? Good riddance to them in my book. Your W should be focusing on her marriage, not her so-called friends.
<<<She doesn't trust me, for fear I will retaliate with a fling of my own>>> then <<<She has told me that she wants me to have an affair of my own, so I would know how bad she feels>>>
Those are some contradictory statements. Which one is it? Have you asked her? Trust me on this one Jay...I went "there". Don't make a bad situation worse. Don't add guilt and shame to the pain you are already feeling. No threatening retalliation, stay true to yourself.
Check out the RESOURCES link at the top of the homepage...there's alot of good books listed. Are you sleeping? Eating? If not then make a doc appt. If you feel like you need counselling then by all means go.
Its going to take alot of hardwork from the both of you over a long period of time.
Jay,
First of all, I want to say that this is not your fault. If your wife felt you were inattentive or unloving, having an affair was not the way to fix that. The WS often uses this tactic to deflect blame and responsibility. No matter what the problems in your marriage were, you are in no way to blame for her choice to have an affair. I find it interesting that you say she doesn’t trust you for fear that you will retaliate yet she tells you she wants you to have an affair so you’ll know how bad she feels. I think you’re smart not to play that game. Trust is going to be difficult enough to re-establish between the two of you.
I would caution you against going to the other husbands with what you know. I understand where that is coming from, but it’s not going to do anything for your relationship with your wife and that’s the thing you need to concentrate on right now. If your wife loses these women as friends, I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. But let her have no one but herself to blame for that.
I know how hard this must be for you. You say she has done some of the right things, and that’s good, but it implies that you want more. Have you told here what you need from her? If so, does she respond positively? Is she willing to give you what you need? I hope she is but, even so, there is no easy way through this. I’m sure you know that. A lot of the work is going to have to be yours. Your wife can’t do or say anything to make this all go away. She absolutely must participate in the recovery process if you are going to make it as a couple, but you can and should take responsibility for your own healing. Take care of yourself. Good luck and keep posting. Have you checked out the resources? I recommend that.
Thank you for your concern. This is certainly a day-to-day and life altering process.
My wife doesn't feel the betrayal, and feels shame and...I am not sure what else. I need to ask her what she feels about all this. She tells me how she feels about my recovery, how she wants me to involve her, but that is a scary thing...she has caused my grieving and pain.
I told her I did not want her to see one of her "friends" (the player). Initially, she agreed, but continued to bring her up in conversation, even defending her ("she makes five times more income than her husband, she doesn't respect him, but doesn't want a divorce because he would get half the money"). This is not the woman I have married and lived with for 18 years.
She saw her friends last week, telling me two hours prior that she was going to do it. It re-opened the wounds of betrayal, and sent me into a mini-tailspin. she told me I didn't understand her needs.
I told her that right now the marriage is all about her, and until it becomes about us, and we both become its caretaker, we are destined for purgatory at best.
I ran into one of the women she went with and the husband. She gave me the deer in the headlights look, I didn't have much to say, but a mutual friend told me he had heard we are not a close couple anymore.
As you said Tex, Good Riddance!
Thank you for your response and concern, God bless you both. You are remarkable and special people. I look forward to reaching out to help others in this club nobody wants to join in the future.
Jay
This message has been edited by JayR1 on Mar 11, 2006 7:29 AM
I'm so sorry you are going through this. It just stinks. I've been finding that there is comfort in knowing that you are not alone in your pain. And that the most amazing people step up and are supportive. It's helped me to hang with the good folks and avoid the others completely. I read somewhere that it's crucial to develop a social network of other married couples. It creates a positive, nuturing environment for the marriage. Sounds like your wife did the opposite. As our MC says "our culture is NOT supportive of marriage". So, it might be awhile before your wife can change her view. Do you think she would consider counseling? Do you have any kids at home?
I really know how you feel about being the "watchdog" and "caretaker". That aspect feels SO unfair. We did not ask for this situation and now we have to manage it. I'm struggling with that one too.
Take good care
On the run
No, staying put
Pretty happy
No, horribly sad
Looking hopefully to the future...
The pain and shock of betrayal, especially in those first months, is almost unbearable isn't it? Its all you can do just to accomplish the simpliest of tasks.
Its impossible at least in my book to begin to trust someone when their continued actions show they are untrustworthy. Trust was given to them once...now they have to earn it back.
<<<She saw her friends last week, telling me two hours prior that she was going to do it. It re-opened the wounds of betrayal, and sent me into a mini-tailspin. she told me I didn't understand her needs.>>>
What a selfish, self-serving act on her part. Sounds to me she still doesn't "get it" yet. What exactly are her needs? How is hanging around a bunch of women who are cheating on their H's meeting those needs? When does it stop being about her and become about you? I'll tell you when buddy...when YOU make it about you.
Those reopened wounds are "triggers". They can just pop out of no-where and it seems like they are everywhere.
Jay, what is her ultimate goal here? To save to marriage? If so under what conditions? Hers? How does it compare to what you need/expect?
At some point you might want to consider setting some boundries with an explanation as to why. Do not set them if you aren't strong enough at the moment to follow through because that will leave you in an even worse position. She's likely to get angry and defensive, all typical reactions but you have to protect yourself first and foremost. If you don't take care of yourself who will? You aren't trying to bully her with ultimatums but she needs to know you do have limits. "I will or I will NOT accept or tolerate statements will define what your bottom line is rather than "You will or will Not" statements.
You will come to hate this 4 letter word. TIME. Its going to take alot of it. Be patient with yourself and remember this is a process. If she's unwilling to commit to working fully on the marriage, obviously you can't make her. What you can do however is control how you respond to it or choose not to engage until you see some honest effort on her part. You can't save a marriage by yourself.
Hang in there buddy...they don't call it the rollercoaster ride from hell for nothing.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 11, 2006 10:58 AM
About a week after I found out, I was confronting many things. She actually told me "I wanted you to know how this felt". It sent me into a massive funk. Nobody in their right mind, save Charles Manson (I did say right mind) would want another human being to know how this feels.
Sometimes I wonder if she can truly "get it."
We went to a MC at first. The MC actually said to me "She dropped a bomb on you, but it could be the best thing that ever happened to you." I told her it was a good thing she was not at Hiroshima. She also said it "could have been worse".
Didn't need to hear that at that time. The next seesion when I started talking about it, she said "let's talk about something more positive. I told her that if she had 50 pounds of elephant shit in her living room, would she rather talk about the sunny day outside or grab a shovel. She told me I was hostile, and I got up and walked out.
With a second option now which seems much better. Just hope we didn't miss the window of opportunity when real change was likely.
When I lost a parent, I learned it was an obligation to provide consolation to the bereaved. You guys have learned the same lesson from your experience with being a BS. I admire and am thankful for your concern, guidance and help.
Wow, what a crappy MC (I can think of lots of other words that apply, too).
I admire you for walking out...and I hope you didn't pay the bill, either.
Consolation is one part of what we do here, and helping a betrayed spouse to think straight is the other. (We may be better at the latter than at the former.)
Sorry you had to find us, but keep coming back. It helps.
I'm also happy to hear that you walked out. There are far too many poor counselors when it comes to A's. The best advice I could give you, ahead of time, when looking for another C, would be to question he/she about A recovery beforehand. Ask what their views are. One very important thing is that the C support telling any and everything the BS wants to hear and NOT hiding it under a rug. Also, that they support the fact that the wandering spouse agree to their lives being an "open book." There are lots more.
Thanks Charlie and Onward and Tex for your concern-
One positive from this experience is that my wife and I have reconnected in the bedroom. Although at times, I look at her and cannot believe she is actually the person I married and the mother of my children.
I have lost fifteen pounds during this process, and sleep has been hit or miss.
On the other hand, I feel I have tapped unreserved reservoirs of strength and character from this experience.
Been reading the book (I think the title is...) "Choosing to Forgive, The Courage to Choose Not To"
Feel validation that time is on my side in this process.
It sounds like you are on the brink of trying to figure out if you can forgive - and you may be frightened by exactly what that entails, like I was - but it also sounds like you truly still love your wife and would rather be together than be separate. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you might want to try looking into the program that my wife and I attended. I won't go into the particulars here...read my thread in the Open Forum titled, "A Truly Amazing Program". This program can help you get back what you've lost, help you understand the dynamics of your communication breakdown, and even help you understand how to forgive if that's what you want to do.
Like you, I have received very little value from Marriage Counseling. At this stage in affair recovery, all a counselor can do is try to be a referee between two people who obviously have serious troubles as a couple, but can't get to the deeper issues because of the pain and anger. That's not where a BS wants to be. We want answers, and we want them now. The problem is, the answers may never come if the pain and anger don't subside on BOTH sides. That's what was happening with us. Hell, the answers may NEVER come, but there's no way of even trying to find them if you can't communicate and feel safe with each other again. That goes for both of you.
Again, I stress that I wouldn't have gotten anything out of this program if it had been preachy or manipulative. I'm way too wary and logically-minded for that. It was sincerely an eye opening, logic-based program of communication that brought us back to focusing on each other and how to deal with our issues together, instead of as individuals in a "Married-Single Lifestyle" as they so aptly named it.
The reality - the HARSH reality - is, what has happened is unchangeable, no matter how angry, sad, frustrated, confused or unaccepting you may be about it. What can change is how you deal with each other in the future. I could never, ever see that by myself, no matter how much the good folks on this forum were trying to tell me so - in many different ways (and they did...over and over again, but I still didn't get it). This program was like a slap in the face to both of us...an eye-opening wake-up call that made us look out the window and see that the sun actually came up in the East this morning, and it was headed West, not back East again. We are truly "rediscovering" each other, and realizing how to listen to each other's feelings and understand what hurt us both in the past, so we can love each other in the present and work toward our future. We just couldn't do it on our own....two stubborn, angry people wrapped up in our own hurt, and blinded by pride and whatever other influences that kept us from wanting to hear each other. I can't stress enough how much this program has helped us. It could help you too.
The pain is indescribable. Know that she will never, ever be able to understand how much it hurt you, no matter how much you want her to...it's simply impossible. Nothing can change that, and nothing can fix it...but you can move forward, away from the intensity of it. It all depends now on what you really, really want from this relationship. You'll have to dig deeper than you ever thought you could to figure that one out.
Thank you for the guidance. I will definitely check it out.
You are correct. The processes on the part of both partners are completely different. The BS feels grief, shock, betrayal, and indescribable hurt.
The other spouse may feel some shame, embarassment, and remorse. The other spouse just wants to put it behind them, but in reality, they have dumped a 50 pound sack of toxic shit on our doorstep, and it is up to us to do something with it. they cannot get it.
How long has it been since D-Day for you? January 1 for me. Happy New Year.
On the 2nd of April, it will be 6 months for me. I found out (by her leaving up a chat window with an online "friend") three days after my father died - of a broken heart from my mother's death a year earlier - that it was with my closest male friend, our next door neighbor of 6 years (married, 2 kids who at one time were my kids' best friends), while I was away in another country on a job that tortured me (in a career that I absolutely loved, but had taken a turn for the worse over the course of that job, with massive layoffs coming in the near future), from which I had just reurned two weeks earlier. Just imagine the plethora of emotions - the indescribable, devastating pain - involved with all of that. I haven't even come close to recovering from the multiple traumas associated with all of those things combined. My pain and anger associated with it were tremendous.
We went through all of the phases. She was remorseful and tried very hard at first, but I was so traumatized that I didn't acknowledge her process of pain and recovery (as much as a BS doesn't want to admit it or understand it, a WS does have a healing process - and if it was a long term affair, they have invested quite a lot of emotion, misguided or not - from which they need to recover), and everything that had created the rift between us before the affair (for her) was amplified in my behavior, which pushed her farther away.
We finally got to a point to where neither of us would or COULD listen to each other, and our stubborness and pride/egos...whatever, took our minds away from what was REALLY important. The fact that we still loved each other, even though we'd have both sworn at the time that we hated each other. She filed for Legal Separation, and I answered with full Divorce. We spent $6,000 on both our Lawyers just to start the proceedings...and it was going to be an ugly battle, with our children the innocent victims, being given a life lesson that two people who they love and trust more than anything in the world aren't strong enough to work through their relationship issues.
I had remembered that a FWS named BlazerBob had responded to one of my wife's posts on the Open Forum about this program called Retrouvaille, but I shrugged it off back then as some religious crutch. Being a hardcore non-believer, I wince at anything that I perceive as preaching to me. Anyway, BlazerBob had mentioned that he had filed for divorce - that his situation was extremely similar to ours in that both of them had "shut down" (my words) and that he was going to this program as the last thing to check off before going through with the divorce. Years afterward, his relationship was stronger than it ever was, and now he is a presenter in the program in his area. I figured I'd give it a shot as a similar last resort, at least to try and communicate better through the divorce proceedings for our kids' sake (I was telling myself). My wife agreed to attend for the same reasons. My reality was that I knew I still loved my wife, and no matter how much pain, anger, pride or ego got in my way, I still knew that what I really, truly wanted was to stay with my wife because I still loved her no matter how much her affair had hurt me. I figured anything was worth a shot at that point.
Some men would call that being a pussy or weak or spineless or whatever. Those are the people who have never experienced this trauma before, or they're people who are in a relationship for the wrong reasons. We even told each other many times over the course of our 22 years together that, "If you ever screw around on me, I'm outta here so fast your head will spin!" And yes, like Joniee said in another post, during this time of hatred for her, I had fantasies of being single again and dating (and having sex with) other women, because I love women....all women. That was very appealing and tempting, as I was quite the Cassanova before I met my wife, and had spent 22 years being faithful to her (18 years of marriage - we met when we were 21 & 22).
The reality is, I've been faithful to my wife for all those years because I truly love her...and something in there held on to that, even though she had broken that particular promise. Still holding, in fact. After we attended this program, we both have new hope. We can communicate to each other without being judgmental, and we truly respect each others feelings like we hadn't for many years prior to the issues that led up to this. This has made us both feel safe with each other again, and I know it will lead to both of us being able to help each other work through the issues and find the answers (for BOTH of us to "get it"), where we were going to lock them deep down inside and never let them out had we divorced. Better still, we are looking at each other with loving eyes again. The same way we used to look at each other, even knowing we still have a lot of work to do. I wish we had gone to it earlier in our discovery phase, and we both wish we had known about it ten years ago.
What a terrible waste it is to hurt someone you are supposed to love more than anything. What a stupid thing it is to not want to try and understand why and how you both hurt each other - even if you didn't know you were doing it - and try to make it better if you really, truly want to. An affair is a stupid way of dealing with problems (and it's nobody else's fault, remember that), but the harsh reality is that it wouldn't have happened if there weren't problems in the relationship. Problems that can be fixed if you are willing to fix them. That's the hard part...seeing past the pain that the trauma of the affair has caused (YOUR recovery). Like Tex always says, there are three healings going on...yours, hers and your relationship. They all have their own timelines, but - and some will argue this as I did early on - they are not mutally exclusive. I contend now that no situation is the same or has to follow certain rules. Yes, that's a pile of toxic shit that was laid on you by no fault of your own. But you either have to put on your abatement suit and grab a shovel, or watch it eat away at you like a cancer until all hope for both of you has deteriorated into a mushy pile of goop that can't be reconstructed.
Again, the question is, what do you really want? You don't have to answer that right away. Just know that this is what your relationship recovery will come down to, and in these early stages, your answer will change with the direction of the wind on the surface. You know the real answer...you might not be able to find it yet, but you know it deep down.
Once again Bob, thanks for sharing your story, your heart and your experience.
I emailed my wife the website yesterday and told her I wanted to try it. She emailed me back that it wasn't her thing. I will keep trying.
I do truly love my wife. She commented today that it seemed as if I was on a roller coaster. I told her she didn't know the half of it. She is in pain, as well, and you are correct, we have some serious relationship issues to work out. If she got this out of her system, and it has focussed her on what she wants, maybe I will come to look at it as a gift.
The truth, neither of us were virgins when we married, so why does it ache so much? I guess it is the first rule of a marriage, the most sacred rule that has been disrespected and disabused. It is a tough one to get past.
I am glad you and your wife are on your way. Thank you for your kind words and support. I look forward to doing the same for others who join this club of the others choosing.
hi jay - thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts to issue. i've been reading your situation as well and found a lot of similarities with mine.
i too attempted to get my W to read postings in an attempt to understand the choas we are dealing with. my W was not impressed and noted that i may be making matters worse by reading and obsessing with other peoples A. sound familiar? i believe you are doing the right thing. if we can assist each other with kind words of support, ideas to deal with our mental anguish - i'll continue.
i can't offer any useful advise, i'm just too dense to be of any use to you. i did want you to know your not alone. we are good husbands. in my case - should have been more attentive to my W inner needs, but an A? give me a break! we got tooken advantage of.
i too am exhausted by the mental roller coaster. my best medicine is as follows. in my case my W says she wants us to stay together. so i'll stay in conseling and applying the love bank needs. however, life has changed for me. working out, spending time on me, be more attentive to friends and basically open my life up to my W and my needs.
i'll conceed this does nothing to stop the sleepless nights, the inner anger, etc... i hope staying connected to this forum will help those issues subside.
i hope your wife takes the time to see and accept the pain you now have to deal with. good luck with your relationship and recovery, you have a friend in me.
joniie
You are obsessing, its hurts you, those "people aren't us". Kinda close? Ummm..yep we ARE you.
Y'alls wives A's were no different than the rest of our spouses. It's not hurting you, its hurting them coming to that realization. It had to have been "special" to them. Their A was "different". No it wasn't.
They weren't soulmates or ships passing in the night. A different place, different time. If they were they would be together. Wouldn't anyone find a way to be their soulmate?
Can you see the "goodbye" speech? I want to be with you but I have to do the right thing. Can you say "horseshit" at loud??? "I'm still here" like its some huge favor and not because of the vows they took.
They either want to be with you and except responsibility for their actions or they don't. "I only did it because...if you had paid more attention"...blah blah blah.
You can't fix something you don't know is broken. Don't play into that crap. I know its easy to do because you wanna hang on.
You're the prize SHE needs to win back. Is she doing that? If so then how?
Its not about your manhood. Believe me every man here has been through that. You ARE a man..in fact you are THE MAN. Don't doubt that.
Edited: No attacks from the ladies please.
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 17, 2006 5:33 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 17, 2006 5:26 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 17, 2006 5:20 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 17, 2006 5:15 PM
