What confuses me so much is , how my H says he always loved me and still does. If you love someone do you hurt that person beyond repair? How can he say he loved me while he was getting BJ's from someone else??I don't understand that!!!And then that one (so called one time),he crossed another line by having sex with someone else.I just don't get it. How is that love??
I wander if i will ever be able to put this behind me.I just don't know if i can!I still think about it damn day.When or will that ever stop??I am soooooo tired of feeling this way. Do you ever get a normal life back?In a song by Keith Urban , one line says ,"if there is life after this". That is the way i feel . I love that song!!Everyone says TIME , well it has been 9 months since D-Day for me, and it still feels like shit.I still cry at some point everyday, not as much as i did in the beginning, but i still do.I guess i just want LIFE AFTER THIS!!!
Kathy

Kathy,
I've been D for over a year and it does get easier. I don't know if it will ever go away completely, I still think about it at some point everyday. I can tell you that it becomes easier to push it out of your mind and you will start having more good days then bad.

My ex said the same things to me. He still claims he loves me and I think he really beleives that. Some people just don't get the true meaning of the word. I don't know about your H, but my ex is a really self centered person. He didn't think he would get caught, in his mind he could have a little fun on the side and still have me the person that he "loves" at home waiting for him. I don't think he thought about me for a minute when he was with the OW. To self centered.

I've read that when a person has an A, it usually has nothing to do with their spouse. I think some of them have a need to know that they are still desirable. It's a ego boost that we can't give them. That ego boost makes them feel good and they want more. Mix that ego boost with the excitement of being with someone new after being with the same person for so long it leads to crossing the line. I think the lieing and the hiding add to the excitement of it. They are just thinking of themselves, They are not thinking of the pain we will feel if/when they get caught. They are not thinking of losing us and ruining the life we have built. They are not thinking about us at all.

I hope things get better for you. I use to hate it when people would tell me to give it time, but they were right. It really does get easier. 9 months isn't that long.

Sherrie

""""I still cry at some point everyday, not as much as i did in the beginning,""""

Ok, you are making progress. It will get less and less intense as time goes by. My 3rd year was probably my worst overall. I didn't cry myself to sleep every night but the anger I had for being betrayed after me being faithful for 31 years was incredible.

After 4 years I have calmed down considerably. Almost peaceful with the affair but it is no where near the way it used to be with my wife. It has certainly changed us both in some good ways and in some not so good ways. We still struggle relationship wise but we are both still here and very hopeful that we will find a connection like we used to have.

Howdy Kathy,

I really don't think love has anything to do with it. If that were the case none of us would hurt anyone we say we love....our kids, parents, friends etc. Have you always acted loving towards Steve even before the A? If you didn't sometimes it didn't mean you didn't love him though right? Yes I know an A is in a league all by itself but you get the jist of what I'm saying.

Do you honestly believe Steve thought " What way can I hurt Kathy the most?" If you DO believe that...well I would question why someone would want to reconcile with another person who intentionally set out to hurt them.

<<<If you love someone do you hurt that person beyond repair?>>>

We've probably all asked this question at one time or another. We're trying to make sense out of this mess. That being said the one person who can answer it is a WS...afterall they've been there. The only reason I'm responding Kathy is because I had a revenge ONS. I know what was and wasn't in my heart that night. It had nothing to do with not loving my STBXW. It had everything to do with low self esteem, and not loving myself very much to the point I knew of no other way at the time how to respond to my own feelings after her A. And yeah I felt justified in causing her pain. I thought it would relieve some of mine. Wrong.

My own feelings outweighed my loyalty to the marriage...love had nothing to do with it.

I hope this helped alittle.

Regards,

Tex

I appreciate what you are saying but on the other hand , i still feel like love or the lack of does have something to do with it.If you truly love some one you wouldn't want to be with someone else.
<Was there times before the A that i acted unloving to my H>
Sure there was, we have been married 26 years, but i might have gave him the cold shoulder for a day or two, been alittle hateful, but not this. This is the ultimate betrayal!!!Did he intentionally set out to hurt me? I don't know. What did he think it was going to do??
I ask myself everyday if i want to reconcile or not.
He has always been here , we have never separated.
I think he feels that i won't really get a divorce,and he has become comfortable.To me that is why he doesn't show emotion or pain. Why should he, he's still here!! What do i need him to show me?? I need him to beg me not to leave him,show me that it will hurt him if i do,SHOW ME HIS PAIN!!! If there is any.And yes i have told him this.
Kathy

Kathy,

<<<If you truly love some one you wouldn't want to be with someone else.>>>

That would be the logical answer wouldn't it? However I don't think we're very logical creatures at all when it comes to the heart.

<<<This is the ultimate betrayal!!!>>>

Yes is it. No one is going to disagree with that. Now you need to decide if this is something you can rebuild from.

<<<I think he feels that i won't really get a divorce,and he has become comfortable.>>>

I'm not big on guessing what's in some else's head Kathy. Just come out and ask him.

I read this elsewhere recently. This is a quote an IC shared with a FWS. It might make for a good debate:

"Loyalty is a dedication or devotion to a principle, person, or institution that does not waver, but remains constant regardless of the situation. Loyalty is the outward manifestation of a very personal commitment.

Loyalty, NOT LOVE, is the binding force of a good marriage.

Emotions come and go. One day we may see the person we love as all things perfect and desirable. Another day irritations or conflicts may bring us to the point of dislike for the same person. Love may fluctuate, but loyalty does not. If commitment is firm, we do not give up or desert a relationship."


Is love a verb? You betcha. Let's face it though...it IS an emotion too. We can't just turn it on and off like a light switch. Could you just stop loving Steve? If you KNEW it would take away the pain if you stopped loving him? Would you? More importantly...could you?

Who you choose to be loyal...committed too...that is a decision. Maybe that's where the failure lies? A decision to be DISloyal. That isn't about love. I fully understand as a BS that is a hard concept to grasp. Everything is mainly focused on love. Maybe...just maybe...from a WS side of things that was the last thing it was about in alot of cases.

Love changes over time doesn't it? From falling in love to a much deeper kind. It evolves.

Loyalty on the otherhand does NOT change without a conscious decision. Why did he choose to be disloyal? That might be a good question to ask him.


Tex

Kathy

I would just like to add that no one has an A if they think they are going to get caught. I am sure if he knew he was going to hurt you, the woman he loves he would not have done it. I am pretty sure he thought he would get away with it. It was a hard concept to take but when they are having an A we are not even in the thought process. My W actually did not get caught but could not live with the guilt so she confessed, she would tell me it was like she had two lifes. It sucks but it really has very little to do with us it is just them being selfish. Good luck

Tex, that was a thought provoking post. I struggle like Kathy with how my husband could love me and do what he did. In fact, he told both women he had affairs with upfront that he loved his wife and was not going to leave her! But loyalty is a whole other thing. He could compartmentalize his homelife and love for me from his secret life. That one was not about love for him. It was about a lot of things but love wasn't one of them. He never felt he was jeapardizing our marriage or love because he never thought he would get caught. He truly believed at the time that what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me. So in his mind at the time, he wasn't intentionally hurting me, and he still loved me. It was not about me at all, just like this is not about you Kathy. It was a weakness in them, something they decided to do for a variety of reasons, (I know my husband was going through a lot of big life changes at the time,) but not because they didn't love us. But loyalty? Yeah, they decided to be disloyal. Maybe they thought that wasn't such a big deal as long as they still loved us.

Angela

Thanks!
Gosh, Tex i wish i had your insight and wisdoms of life!
LOYALTY,how right your are!!! If they (WS), loved us then yes they had to be disloyal to us. But that hurts just as much.
Loyalty is devotion and commitment, you are right. But they still choose to be disloyal.You mentioned if you are loyal you don't give up or desert a relationship, but isn't that what they did??

Nonamek ,my H confessed too.I agree that they think they will never get caught.But again mine confessed , not the whole truth at first, that took a few months.
No matter if it was not loving us enough or being disloyal, this hurts like hell!!
I wish i had my H back the one i married.People say you can be closer after an A , but i am still trying to figure that one out . HOW!
I do hope someday i will be able to move on , but it still is very hard right now.
My H still has alot to prove to me before i will be willing to keep putting myself thru this hell!It would be easier to walk away. But i am still here for now!!

I wished I had that Kathy. I read that elsewhere and it really hit home with me. What I do have NOW after alot of help and that 4 letter word...TIME...is being able to understand there are 2 people...with 2 different truths...2 different stories. What happens I think is one concentrates on the A and one concentrates on the marriage...especially early on.

I remember telling my STBXW..."Make me understand then". Of course she couldn't because I was so focused on the pain there's nothing she could have said. It all sounded like bullshit, excuses and justifications to me. I refused to accept anything she had to say... that yeah it just might be true. Sound familiar to anyone?

The truth is we had just grown too far apart...we had nothing in common anymore. Hence there was nothing to build on. You and Steve have something to build on.

Tex

Hi Kathy! Ya know that I care about ya alot, so please don't take this the wrong way. Just please give yourself more time to try & heal.I know you love Steve & if he REAllY wants to fix the marriage,then MAYBE there is a chance for you guys.Is he being honest with you now? If so then maybe that's a start. At least you arn't faced with what I have.Terry continues to lie & there are still things from last Fall that he hasn't proven false. At this point, even if I could ever forgive him for the A, I can't trust him because of the lies. We are now living apart. Is that what you want to have happen?I want what is best for you Kathy!!! I guess what I am trying to say, is try & hang in there for awhile & see what Steve's actions prove. In time you will have your answer Kathy. And whatever you do decide, it will be the right thing for you.I am only a phone call or email away whenver you need me.I still cry alot too & the A is still on my mind all the time. I know this is so hard & unfair. I wish neither one of us was dealing with this crap.Do something just for yourself this week or weekend! Any good movies that you could treat yourself to? I enjoy going to the movies by myself. Or think of whatever treat would work for you.Do something for Kathy!You are worth it. We have to learn to treat ourselves better!I bet that you are probably like me, we think of others first & we ignore ourselves & our needs.We can change!

This "love/loyalty" distinction is big.

You've gotta have both in a successful relationship. Love just ain't enough.

I believe firmly that BOTH are "intentions". If I INTEND to be loyal to my significant other, there are certain boundaries that are necessary for me to honor every day. The same is true of love: if I want to show my significant other that I love her, then there are things I must do. Loyalty is more about what I don't do, while love is more about what I do.

Examples: When I'm in a relationship or married, I refrain from having flirtatious or emotional discussions with any other women. That's loyalty. When I'm in a relationship or married, I do lots of little things (sweep snow off cars, make coffee/breakfast in the morning, give back rubs, etc.) and the occasional big thing to act out my love. They're two different things, but both need to happen to build up (instead of tear down) a relationship.

Chris.

GREAT explanation and examples Chris! You guys keep teaching me so much. How can I have been married for almost 31 years and been so unenlightened? (That was a nice way of saying stupid. I'm working on being kinder to myself!) Anyway, I'm serious. Thanks.

Angela

I agree with Kathy about love vs. loyalty. Unfortunately that's proabably not a good thing for Kathy to hear in this thread. I think the big picture is "love" and loyalty becomes or is a part of love. I think it is indeed that simple.

I have never cheated on my wife and like all of us I have had opportunities. When approached (I've been asked directly) my first thought was OMG, no. And this is how I answered the women, "I love my wife too much to risk hurting her." Stupid me, I always thought that my wife would say the same out of love for me on her opportunities.

That said, I think a WS needs to delve deep into themselves to discover why they felt a need to go outside the marriage. I do indeed think their decision to have an affair had nothing really to do with the BS, that the WS's need to go outside the marriage was bigger or more powerful than remembering their spouse (loving their spouse by remaining loyal). The need was so powerful that they totally overlooked, forgot, or could care less what it might do to us and the marriage at the time they were drawn into the affair.

That's my 2 cents.

H2C

P.S. Kathy, what I'm saying doesn't mean that you can't get to a point of having peace of mind.

Kathy, it all comes down to what you're willing to live with ONCE.

Some people who've posted here in the past have said that their boundaries were very clear: affair = divorce.

Many more of us have said, essentially, "it depends". We don't give free passes, but we are willing to see what actions (if any) are being taken to rebuild trust and demonstrate renewed loyalty.

Chris.

ps. Here's a non-affair example. I'll make it a short story. I have three brothers-in-law, and have had a twitchy relationship with only one of 'em almost since he married my sister (the same year as I married my ex-wife). At one point, he called me a "mean and angry man" in front of our wives and children in a Wendy's restaurant. After a number of years, that rift healed and I was willing to offer him a place to stay (in my home) earlier this year. He did it again: he made an extremely judgemental remark to me, leaving no doubt that he didn't like me, my life, or my choices.

That's it for trying to have any kind of personal relationship with him. I'll be civil for the sake of my sister and my parents on those rare occasions when he is at family gatherings with me. But other than that, he's out of my life because he's told me off twice.

Chris i know what you are trying to say, kinda like the old saying.....Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice ,shame on me!!!!

H2C, yea to me when you are married i thought love and loyalty went hand in hand!!But i guess not.

One thing is for sure , if we do make this marriage work, there will not me a Fool me twice, shame on me!!!
I will never go thru this hell again!!
Thanks everyone!! You guys are my ray of sunshine! I look forward to hearing from you. Even Tex with the 2x4s.LOL!! I know i need one now and then!!
Kathy

Here's the whole text if you are interested Kathy.

The Virtue of Loyalty

by Gary Ryan Blair
We don't hear much about the virtue of loyalty these days. The word sounds old-fashioned and rather passé` but nothing could be further from the truth. Loyalty pertains to matters of truthfulness, faithfulness and integrity.
Perhaps the reason we don't hear very much about it is because we're not entirely certain we really aspire to it, or don't want to be held accountable for disloyalty.
Loyalty is an unswerving allegiance, faithfulness, and fidelity to a commitment, person, nation or a cause. It provides the gold standard for relationship excellence. It's steadfast in good times and tested in bad.
Loyalty is found in what you do, not what you say. It is willingly given, with a person's whole heart and soul. Loyalty and faithfulness also involves some degree of sacrifice.
A loyal person is faithful to their bond, and demonstrates this in action, service, and sacrifice. Where do your loyalties lie? How do you demonstrate your loyalty? Is that demonstration consistent in both good times and bad?
The absence of fidelity, loss of reputation, contaminated peace of mind and self-worth are the punishments disloyalty. Ask yourself: "What would be missing if I chose to be disloyal?" The answer is: your integrity, your ability to be authentic. It's not only what you take away from the other party, but also what you rob from yourself when you choose not to be loyal.
Loyalty is a supreme moral virtue, the fulfillment of the moral law. Without it, we lack a moral center for our life. Loyalty is a universal good, which binds people to the moral order and to one another. Hence, a conflict of loyalties is disastrous. It is like a civil war in the moral order.
We know instinctively that healthy relationships are built upon both a conscious and unconscious commitment to loyalty. It's an organic ingredient of healthy human chemistry. Think of your abiding friendships and love relationships? Aren’t faithfulness and loyalty essential?
If friends meet in times of comfort and prosperity but leave when hardship and difficulty strike, it is clear that their friendship is not true. It is not fair, right, nor admirable to benefit from someone's company in good times but abandon them in times of hardship.
Remaining true to our deepest commitments is life-long work for us individually, as it is for every organization of which we're a part. Yet, loyalty often takes a back seat to the less noble virtues of convenience, expediency and self-interest. As for us individually, this fickle loyalty to our highest purposes is one of our greatest vulnerabilities.
Loyalty is a word that should remind all of us to honor our commitments to others and ourselves. It gives life its fundamental meaning and direction. All of us must understand that without a robust loyalty to our loyalties, our lives and credibility are greatly diminished.
Our society is more and more becoming characterized by unfaithfulness and disloyalty. We need to demonstrate greater strength, loyalty, and cohesiveness in our relationships to others and ourselves.
As a virtue, loyalty is sometimes complex and elusive. Its complexity is due to the fact that the value of loyalty depends both on the constancy of one's commitment to something or someone, and to some extent on the value of that to which one is faithful.
Chicken meets egg. Is it that people are disloyal? Or is it that people don't engender loyalty? The answer is yes. We need to give serious consideration to how can we both demonstrate greater loyalty while earning the loyalty of others? This is a question for every business and citizen to ponder.
Loyalty is also elusive in our rapidly changing culture, and in the unfolding of our lives as well. Our alliances and allegiances simply change over time, sometime because of their nature or ours, but not always or only because we lack the virtue of loyalty.
We all become weakened by defections among customers, employees, friends and family. If the primary objective of any relationship is value creation, than we must never betray nor neglect the virtue of loyalty as value builds loyalty and loyalty builds even greater value.
Each of us has to face the matter. Either loyalty or hypocrisy. Breathe the fresh air of loyalty as there is no middle ground.
Everything Counts!

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Just checking in to see how you are! I know you have been having a rough time! You will find happiness again. We all will. I think that it just takes alot of time. So, look in the mirror today & smile!