Damn! I wrote this huge long post & just lost it. O.k., time for me to start over.H's last night was last night. He is checking to see if he can stay at one of the rentals that he's working on.We talked about why he lied about saturday night. I actually believe what he said & that's a miracle considering that I don't believe much of anything he says. He says that he was afraid to tell me that he lied about working Saturday night. H said that he went to the coast with the intention of working but felt so much pressure from the mess in our lives, that he felt very stressed. He said that he parked in the Fred Meyer store parking lot & walked the sand dunes for a long while. I know the location that he is talking about & the dunes are big sand dunes right behind the store. He said he thought about how he had let the kids & me down. He said he worried about how to get enough money to pay the rent & utilities. He said he was puzzled & upset because he sends in resumes & doesn't hear back & yet he never had trouble getting a trucking manager job or any manager job before. He said he was feeling scared because I don't believe his story about the strip club & that he understands why I don't believe anything but that he's not lying.Anyway, I told him that there are NO excuses for lying.
TEX-I AM HOPING YOU READ THIS PART! You were right when you said that my H is only human & that I was putting too much pressure on him & that it was unsafe for him to talk to me because I get mad,etc. I think that he lied because he did not feel safe to tell me that he got to the coast, didn't want to work/wanted to think & knew I would be insecure & mad if he told me that. I know I would have been insecure that he wanted to be alone & think. I would have thought that he was trying to decide if he wanted me & the kids. I would have thought all kinds of things to make myself feel insecure & crazy. I came to this conclusion last night as we were talking. YOU WERE RIGHT TEX! I know he doesn't feel safe talking to me.Kinda late now But I did learn a lesson.Still, lying is wrong.No excuses period. So, we are apart now because I said we need to be because of the strip club lie. As of today, he is still saying that he was not there. I even told him that I could understand that he just felt like going there & there was no way he could tell me that he was going to go or had already gone to a strip club.I told him that there was no sense in lying anymore. He says that he isn't lying & that he faxed the bank inquiry yesterday & that he will show me the fax receipt next time I see him.This lie is so dumb because it makes no sense to lie when the bank will prove him wrong.Anyway, like I said, I did learn alot the hard way. I have made it hard,impossible to open up to me. On the other hand, he has made it impossible to trust him. I guess it's just too late for us.
I actually got sidetracked & forgot to say I would appreciate it if you guys would please encourage me to be strong. I have ben giving myself self-talks saying that "I will be fine" & that " I can be strong & do this". Sometimes I feel o.k. & sometimes I feel like a big scared baby!
Sometimes when I read your post it is like you are trying to explain why you are doing what you are doing to us. This is your life you do not have to justify anything you do to us. If you want to take him back take him back if you want to give him another chance give him another chance. It is up to you to do what you want to do. Who cares what anyone on this board says or thinks. This is your time to do what you need to do to make you happy. Barb everyone is hoping you find away to end up happy. You can be strong and kick him out or you can be strong and let him stay. Do what you want to do, if you love him and think you can not live without him give him another chance. If you think about it what is the worst thing they can do to you? cheat, they already did that and you are still standing. I am just saying do what you want to do without worrying if people say I told you so if it does not work this is your life live it the way you want to live it.
I kinda stayed away from your "It's over" thread because I knew you needed time to digest that yes he lied...or at least wasn't forthcoming and you needed to deal with that first. Don't ask me why...but I believed him this time.
How many of us have been so screwed up we've gotten in the truck and planned on going somewhere only to end up somewhere else just to think?
<<< I have made it hard,impossible to open up to me>>>
Barb he DID open up to you. He opened up alot.
And just as important...you listened.
<<<he has made it impossible to trust him>>>
Is it impossible Barb? Take some time and let the talk y'all had sink in first. I bet your head is spinning with everything he's kept bottled up.
<<<I guess it's just too late for us.>>>
Only if you both want it too be. Barb...take some time...same for your H...digest all of this...let him digest it. THEN decide the next course of action.
I do wish you strength but maybe not in the way you think. I wish you strength in finding patience Barb. That's a hard place for a BS to get too.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jun 22, 2006 5:52 PM
Thank! I know it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.It only matters what he & I think.Actually, right now I have to only deal with what I think.I guess I just wanted to say that I realize that for one thing, Tex was right- Terry is only human & I put alot of pressure on him to fix everything.I really thought that he could always handle things. As far as giving him a hard time about the A, I don't really feel guilty about that. I am hurting & he did need to fix that part of the mess. But, I realize that he didn't lose his job on purpose & that he didn't want us to lose the house.I guess I didn't let up on bugging him.I am not going to feel sorry for him about the lying stuff though. He lied & it was wrong.
This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Jun 22, 2006 6:19 PM
Of course you shouldn't feel sorry for him over the A. That was HIS decision. And yep...lying comes with A's. Remember that saying..."you don't go OUTSIDE the marriage to fix what's wrong WITHIN the marriage."
The thing I found encouraging is you both seem to now be looking at the marriage...not just the A. A's are usually symptoms obviously that something isn't right. No its not an excuse or a justification. It just IS.
I don't do this often but...(((Barb))). Way to go...for both of you.
I like what you just said. We do need time. He said a few days ago that he wants our marriage to make it but it is hard for me to believe that when he lies. Not the lie about the coast, I can forgive that one. Not because I am being too easy, babying him, or feeling sorry for him BUT because I actually UNDERSTAND WHY he did it. Still, more lies add up to more mistrust on my part. He said last night that it sure wasn't a wise choice on his part. I explained to him that I can understand he was afraid to tell me but that he can't use being afraid as an excuse to lie. I told him I should have been more understanding.I told him that it would be a shame if our marriage ended because he chose to go to a strip club & lie about it. He said that he was not there.He says he understands that I have no reason to trust him.I tried to give him a chance during the time we talked last night. I told him that if he had just decided to go to the strip club because he damn well felt like it, that would have made me upset, BUT to continue lying about it will end the marriage. He still says that that wasn't the case & he wasn't there. That's the most frustrating part!!!! The bank statement shows that he was there,& it seems like he is willling to throw away the marriage on the slight chance that he can get away with yet another lie.It could just be that he doesn't care about the marriage & "threw it away" along time ago. In other words, might as well lie- he has nothing to lose. Am I seeing this right or not?
HEY!, I got a "Way To GO " from Tex. Sure beats the 2x4(hee!). Guess I had to get WHACKED by the 2x4 in order to achieve the lesson! I'm just not sure if it will do any good.His lying shows no respect for me or the marriage.That's kinda the bottom line.The strip club deception kind of seals the fate of things.Like I told him, it's such a dumb thing to have a mariage end over- A visit to a strip club.
This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Jun 22, 2006 6:52 PM This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Jun 22, 2006 6:21 PM
""""Barb, you might take a look at your own behaviors here. I’ve seen you write several times that this mess that you are in is all your H’s fault so it is all his responsibility to fix implying that Barb just sits back and waits for the results. No real tangible results and Barb complains. If you are getting that message clearly thru to him, then I can understand why he feels pressured. The affair was clearly his fault but saving your marriage is both your responsibilities. That may or may not seem fare to you but it is the cold hard truth.""""
H2C,I'm really confused, I don't get why you just posted what you said, considering that I just posted awhile ago that I realize I HAVE made things hard on him & that I understand WHY he lied about the coast. I just said that that part was MY fault.Still, the strip club lie is totally crazy. Crazy for him to keep lying when I saw the bank statement. It will be the end of our marriage if he disrespects me so much that he will keep lying even when I'm looking at the proof in black & white.That has nothing to do with me giving him a hard time about the A or anything else. That has to do with not caring enough to tell the truth even when caught.I am not trying to come across as being defensive or argumentive here H2C, I just really don't get why you posted what you did. Could you explain so I can understand where you are comming from?Thanks!
Barb, I think H2C is trying to say that he originally made the point about you pressuring your H too hard...he was quoting himself from some time back.
Thanks Chris! Now I get it! Thanks also Jean! I was doing pretty good until I talked to H on the phone just now. He called to check in & let me know where he was going to be staying.I figured that he would be staying in one of the empty rentals that he's working on. No, instead he will he staying at Mike's(Roger's son) fancy house & Mike's brother will be living there too. O.k., how do I control my insecurities about this situation?!! If Mike's step-brother is anything like Mike, it won't be a good situation. I was honest & told him that I didn't like this arrangement.I told him that I worried about him having a good time & that that is not the purpose of having this time apart.He said that he wouldn't do anything except work.I guess I feel threatened because H is free & yet he knows I won't be going out or going anywhere because I am stuck here with daycare kids & our kids.I know if I think logically,this situation isn't really any different than it has been. I mean, he has been"out there" & I have been stuck here. So, how do I deal with this? I know we need to be apart until I have the proof from the bank.He said that he checked the fax machine in the other part of the building & that his fax didn't go thru last evening. So, he said he will fax it from somewhere else tomorrow & then give me the receipt next time he sees me.Anyway, the big question is how do I deal with this?
"I mean, he has been"out there" & I have been stuck here. So, how do I deal with this? I know we need to be apart until I have the proof from the bank."
Barb
Once again, you can't control what your H does, but I would think that if you kick him out, you have even LESS control of what he does. It seems that sometimes you worry yourself sick about things you have no control over. If H is lying and you end up keeping him out, he will likely lose any accountability to you. Maybe that will hurt, but it is also a very normal thing to happen once you make it clear that you don't want him there.
"He said that he checked the fax machine in the other part of the building & that his fax didn't go thru last evening. So, he said he will fax it from somewhere else tomorrow & then give me the receipt next time he sees me.Anyway, the big question is how do I deal with this?"
Honestly, is there anything in your power that you should do? When I found out my ex was cheating and kicked him out, I have to tell you that I didn't really care where he was or what he was doing. I knew it didn't really matter because I could not control what he did, not when he cheated and not when he continued lying to me.
Thanks Charlie, I know I can't contol him. It's just that we are supposed to use this time apart to think, & to wait for the results from the bank inquiry. At the very beginning I kicked him out for good,but then after we talked about the coast thing & I understood what made him lie;then it became a cooling off period while we wait for the inquiry. H says that he doesn't want a life without the kids & I. I told him it would depend on the bank findings(I already know that answer). Anyway, he said he was not going to go out or do anything that I wouldn't like. I can't trust him but I know I can't do anything about it.
SOME GOOD NEWS! H got a call back from this guy that wanted to interview him months ago but the guy got super busy & never got back to my H. Anyway, H has an interview in Portland on Monday. Maybe he will get a regular job! It would be nice if something would go right!
You are at where so many of us are/have been. Was it Chris that just said to focus on yourself? Great advice. If you can locate the 180 rules Cory and Tex put up for me, there is something to live by at this point. It may not make a lot of sense in your heart right now, even if you get it intellectually. It may seem scarey to let go of what feels like you have some control over, but you have to do it. The more you try to control what your H does, the more he will get the idea one, you are trying to control him (duh!) and 2) that somehow you are responsible for his actions and take over his accountability. He doesn't HAVE to do anything, it is all your fault and responsibility.
It is so hard to really internalize all this, especially when you are confused, scared, and hurt more than you've ever hurt. But it is the way to go. If he has no intention of every being there for you, then you might as well find out now as later. You will never feel fully ready for that news, you have to work through it, with your good friends you've found here, fortunately.
Good luck, take care of Barb. You need to do for yourself what you would advise a dear friend to do.
The way I am understanding it is that you felt like you sort of gave him an out to come clean on the strip club and that he did not take it. I am not him but from reading your post I think he knows that if he comes clean it will be harder on him. Personally I think you might need to let this one die. I do not think this will ever be resolved, I think he will stall as long as he can and I think even if the bank never backs him up he is just going to continue to say he was not there. I know it stinks but until he feels safe talking to you I do not think he will ever tell you the truth.
What I am trying to point out is you tell him he has to leave then you get mad when he finds a place to stay. If you want to save your marrage have him come home. I know how you feel, I wanted to kick my W out but it would have killed me not knowing what she was doing.
If I were you, I would tell him lets forget about the strip club and the lie about the coast and no more lies from this point forward. Making the deal breaker something that has already happen, if we are both right is only telling him you better come up with a good lie this time. I understand your pain but I fear you are forcing him to continue his pattern of deception.
Barb I was where you are and no matter how much we want them to act a certain way we just can't have it the way we want. The best advice I ever got was to stop making threats that I had no intention of going through with. Once I quit saying I am out of here everytime she did not say what I wanted her to say or do. Things did get better. I am not sure if I am helping you or just helping myself by typing these thing that I have been wanting to say to someone.
Kat you must not be a country fan because the song goes when you hit rock bottom you have two ways to go straight up or sideways.
Nonamek- I understand what you are saying BUT why would I still want to be with him if he's lying to me all the time?That doesn't show love or respect.I know he will continue to lie even when the evidence comes back from the bank.Like I said, he must be waiting for me to end things so that he doesn't have to. What else could it be?
Yes, I know that I am supposed to be focusing on myself. That's not easy right now. I have spent sometime thinking about how it's just me & the kids now & that he's not going to be in the picture.He called me at 11p.m. last night to say "HI" & then he called at 2 a.m. to say "goodnight". I didn't call him. When I did talk to him I was nice but didn't show any emotion.That's about the best I can muster up right now.
This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Jun 23, 2006 12:28 PM
All I am saying is that if you want it to be over that is fine and you are completely justified in that but if you do not want it to be over I think he is backed into a corner right now. I think he feels his only option right now is to come up with a really good lie this time.
O.K. I see what you are saying. Yet, the situation seems to be that if I were to let him move back in now,which I'm not,then he will again have gotten away with a lie & no consequences.When I get the bank info & it shows he was there, then I don't feel there is any option but to end it.If I went with the option of letting him come back then what do I end up with? I end up with a husband that will continue to lie & cover it up. I end up accepting a shell of a marriage just so that I have him to keep me from being alone.I don't want to give up on my marriage but I don't have the power to make him be honest & faithful.
Tex, I keep reading the one of the previous post yesterday where you stated that "It doesn't have to be over unless you both want it to be". I find that puzzling coming from you Tex. I must not be understanding your message correctly.I would have thought that you would have said something to the extent of"get rid of him, he's lying again". I mean, the coast lie is forgiveable in my book because I do believe that he intended to work & then just spent the time thinking.And I do believe that he was scared to tell me that. Still, I don't appreciate the lie.But Tex, what do I do with this strip club lie?How would I ever trust him after that. He just called to say "HI" & I showed no emotion at all in my voice.That's the way I acted on the phone this a.m. too. I have to at least appear strong.
I've been hesitant to write to you lately. I've been listening to you run in circles, doing the same things (or having the same things done to you) over and over again that continue to cause you pain. I really feel horrible for you, and I think about your situation all the time. My wife and I discuss your posts almost every night, as well as the unbelievably wise, grounded advice from everyone who is trying to help. We both see the tumultuous spiral you are in, with the ground getting closer and closer before it's too late for you to pull up, and it makes us feel just really, really sad and frustrated for you. Especially when you acknowledge the advice, then follow it up with a 'but' that negates everything that's been shared. I can feel your situation escalating to that horrible point where my wife and I found ourselves - with Divorce papers signed and all hope gone - and it's nothing short of torture. I don't mean to whack you with the 2x4, because I know that you are just horribly hurt and it must feel like the walls have finally closed in on you. I just want to ask you to please really try to process all of the great advice you've been given lately for what it is without adding a 'but' or an absolute that makes it worthless. You are at a point right now where your life has to change one way or another. It's time for you to initiate that change.
This situation with the strip club lie, and the "working on the coast" lie...those are tough to understand. My wife & I went through something similar. Well, several similar situations, but there was one that really stands out for me. I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it here because it's pertinent to what you're going through...
Aside from - and AFTER - the 'Big A', my wife was having a relationship with a chat buddy that would be described as a cyber affair. At the very least, it was an inappropriate relationship with a member of the opposite sex, sharing secrets that neither of them were sharing with their spouses. OK, no need to get further into the weeds than that. Upon discovery of the 'Big A' - discovered from reading the chat window that she left on the computer - the deal breakers were in place...no more lies, no more secrets, etc., etc., and no more contact with her Cyber OM, which also meant no more chat on that program. The rules were clear with no gray area. Things weren't going well back then...it was early in discovery and the situation was very tense. My anger - which stemmed from that horrible pain - enveloped me. She was trying to come out of her fog, fighting her own dragons, and was trying her hardest to tell me everything and be honest with me.
One day, while checking her e-mail - which had a link to that chat program and essentially logged her onto that network when she logged on to her e-mail - she clicked on the link that opens the chat program. It was second nature to her to use that program, in that she had been using it extensively while I was away on business for that year and a half, and she had several other of our mutual friends and family who corresponded with her. So when it showed that she had one contact online, she clicked on it without thinking about it, or the possibility that it could be the "Cyber OM". She knew immediately that she had screwed up and closed the window without even looking who it was online...but the deal breaker threshold had been breached and she knew it.
Now, the level-headed, completely forthright thing to do would have been to call me immediately and tell me what had just happened. That didn't occur. Why? Well, first, there wasn't a whole lot of level-headedness going on with either of us at that time, but mostly because she knew that anything would set me off, and - since it was so innocent and inoccuous - there was no harm in what she had done...at least, to her line of thinking. You have to remember that the WS doesn't see it the same way we do. To us, the immediate honesty and confession of a screw-up like that actually helps BUILD trust, because we see it as them "getting it" and acknowledging what they did was wrong, in the small scale like this occurrence, but also in the grand scheme of the whole A mess. To a WS however, that must be just another screw-up that they'll get hammered for...not just from US, which is horrible, but from themselves. Best to let sleeping dogs lie in that mindset, no matter how misguided the thinking is.
Well, of course, I found out. For some reason, our computer doesn't like that program, so whenever it opens up, the computer can't exit it automatically, so it prompts you to shut it down manually in order for the computer to completely shut off. Of course, I was the person who shut the computer down that night. I saw that the program had been opened, no doubt about it. You can only imagine what went through my mind...*especially* that early post-discovery. I remained calm, quietly came to bed and in our bedtime discussion gave her several opportunities to tell me what she had done....all of them calm and unaccusing...but she just couldn't bring herself to tell me the truth. Once she started down the path, she was in too deep with one simple little ommission, which in turn developed into a denial, which naturally devolved into a full blown lie.
She was so afraid of what my reaction might be that she simply couldn't bring herself to tell me, so that little snowflake quickly built itself into a giant snowball. She was not safe to tell me the truth, at least in her mind, which was going through as much turmoil as mine in its own way (from a completely different perspective, of course). My healing wasn't forefront in her mind...the impact of what she had done was, and she was terrified that any little thing would make it worse, much less a potential deal breaker. When I finally told her that I knew in no uncertain terms that she had opened it, she completely broke down....was sobbing and shivering, horrified and ashamed at the same time. I don't know why - because I was extremely volatile at that point in time - but I had a rare moment of clarity and listened to her, believed her, and forgave her for that instance. In retrospect, I wish I could have applied that mindset and ability to "hear" more dilligently after that, but I wasn't ready.
The point to this story is, you've been hearing from a lot of us how we've been getting the feeling that he doesn't communicate with you because you're not allowing him to feel safe to do so. You've admitted that yourself, so I'm not beating you up again. I'm just trying to illustrate how a simple mistake can elevate - or devolve - itself into inexcusable behavior. It just takes one wrong turn...not so difficult, and certainly not always ill-intended. Could that be the case with this strip club/ATM issue? Maybe, maybe not. You'll never know now, I'm afraid. Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Maybe not, but what are you really going to do about it?
As far as the situation you find yourself in now, I guess what I'd ask is...do you really want it to be a deal breaker once you find out about the whole ATM/strip club thing? Then why are you waiting? You know there's like a zillion-to-one chance that he's telling the truth...why in the world do you need proof to end the marriage? I suspect that you've painted yourself into a corner and even if you realize this isn't what you want, you've crossed the threshold and see no escape from your "commitment". You don't need proof to know what you already know Barb. You're clinging to a false hope and just stretching out the pain. Who are you torturing more with that?
It's time to fish or cut bait. Like 'K' was saying, idle threats will only continue to enable his behavior when you keep giving him second chances after threatening not to. If you're sincere about calling it quits, then just do it. Stop the crazymaking and just get out of the marriage. But if you're sincere about wanting to keep your marriage, then do what it takes to get yourselves going in the right direction, together. I know you can find inexpensive counseling if you really try. I KNOW Retrouvaille would cost you nothing if you can't afford to pay. Those are positive steps toward working as a couple, not as two individuals with their own agendas...but neither of you have made any real attempts to take those steps, for whatever reason. You're not painted so far into that corner that you'd be giving him a break if you take real, positive, STRONG steps toward making something happen, as opposed to sitting around, expecting him to change and beating him up when he doesn't, and clinging onto the false hope of trying to control or manipulate him. He has no motivation to change, nor the venue to help him understand why it's important.
I've asked you this question before...is what you're doing right *now* working? NO??? Then why are you so stubbornly, desperately clinging to continuing to do things that way? I think I know the answer to that...because you are frightened. There isn't a sign of hope in either direction, and your world is rocked. The person who you believed to your very core that you could count on isn't that person at all, or at least, he wasn't for a time, so you're horrified that you'll have your heart broken again if you give him another chance. It just hurts so much. If you were to end it, the outlook could be even more frightening...trapped with financial situations, obligations...the fear of being alone...the pain of missing him. Acknowledge to yourself the fact that you're frightened Barb, then move forward.
But now, the situation is as bad as it can get, isn't it? You're at a fork in the road, Barb, and it's time for you to decide what you really want. Time for you to quit with the enabling, the shaming, the "telling", the excuses, the miscommunications....time for you both to quit with the bullshit and get on one of the two paths to healing. Neither of which are very appealing, because they're both covered with potholes and speed bumps...but the reality is, you can't turn around and go back on the same road you just came down. Every footprint behind you has been washed away...it's only forward from here. By continuing to live like this - standing in the same place - you're stuck in this sort of gelatinous purgatory where nothing is happening but the same thing over and over and over again, and it all feels like a perpetual state of slow motion with no fluidity, and no escape. It will continue to feel that way as long as you continue to stand there, Barb. Why would you torture yourself like that?
Take one big step Barb, on one path or the other. If it's down the marriage healing path, go find that inexpensive counseling and give Terry the time of your meeting and ask him to attend. Find the nearest Retrouvaille session to you and ask him to free that weekend in his schedule. Buy or check out some books that you can read together. Process the advice you've been given on this forum and try to implement it without the "buts" or "I just don't/can't..." absolutes. Do ANYTHING other than what you're doing now, because you haven't been able to fix it yourselves to this point.
If you go down the separate healing path, find out where you can get an inexpensive divorce (I think you can even do most of it online) and start the process.
Just turn around, stop looking back at something that isn't there anymore, look forward, DROP THE 'BUTS', and take a step onto one of the healing paths. I'm rooting for you.
Thanks for posting Bob . I do not believe that his strip club lie is akin to your wife getting on a website that she kind of got on without thinking. Terry & I have discussed the strip club thing many times over the last 17 yrs. I don't think a married man belongs there& he said he hd no desire to go to one. I told him if he ever wanted to go to one then I'd go with.I have given him mnay outs,even today. He called on the phone & I told him that if he would tell me the truth abut it today then we could save the marriage but that if the bank inquiry turned up that he was there & then the police say the same thing then our marriage will be over because I gave him final chances to be honest.I did the right thing by having us seperate. I feel better now that he is gone. I want some space He has lied several times & I am tired of pushing my boundries back & he isn't being held accountable for what the hell he is doing.He also has never given me the proof from last Fall that he was not at the bachalor party. He keeps saying that he's trying to get the proof. That has been going on for alot of months now folks. I am tired of the lies. Yes, I know how to get a cheap divorce. I got one from my first husband.Right now I just want my space. I show no emothin when he calls. I am no lonmger going to cry, & beg him to do anything. He often has said that the kids & I are the most important thing in his life. Well, due to his actions, he's about to do without us.
Just wanted to ask you something Bob. Is this your first marriage? I was just wondering. There comes a time when you have to put a stop to the abusive spouse(physical or mental). My first H was evil. He hit me, cheated on me all the time(even with a minor), & lied, wouldn't work, did drugs,etc.I let him do all those things to me because I wasn't strong enough to put a stop to it.I learned(or at least thought I had) learned not to let anyone take advantage of me again or disrespect me again. Well, Terry is doing exactly that by cheating on me, & lying so many times that I can't count 'em. Terry was a super H & father for 15 yrs. & the last 2 yrs. have been the A mess & lie after lie. So, I don't feel the need to put up with the lying anymore.He has changed so much the last 2 yrs. that when I look at him I feel that I don't know him at all.I want to have my space for now. If he feels that he can prove that he wasn't at the strip club then I would love to have the proof . Right now I've seen the proof that he was there.I don't think that there is anyone here that would argue with the fact that I have given him alot of chances.When is enough really enough?
Hi Barb,
It sounds like your doing better now that he isn't there. I think you are doing the right thing by withholding your emotions when you talk to your H on the phone. Let him see that you will be fine with or without him. You are finally taking care of Barb.
Stay Strong,
Sherrie
Thanks Sherrie ! I do feel better.That doesn't mean that I will in a few weeks, but for now it does feel better to have him gone. He has torn me apart the last 2 yrs. & put me thru hell. And, he keeps doing it over & over. There doesn't seem to be an end to the lies. And I have to wonder about all the ones I don't know about.Tonight my 9 yr. old son & I went to see Scary Movie 4.It was funny & it felt so good to laugh! Also, it was at the $1.50 movie so it only cost us $3 to have some fun.
Yep, I am still showing no emotions when I talk to H on the phone.He always ends the conversation with "I love you" & I usually do answer the same way but again, no real emotion.I asked him one thing tonight but did it with no emotion; almost business-like. I told him that I knew that he was going to do whatever he wanted to do, but that I would appreciate it if he would let me know if he was going to go to any bars or if he was going to do any othere stuff like that. We had agreed to stay faithful & act married. Not do anything to mess up the chance of a future. I know that I'm not going to do anything & he knows that too because all I do is work.He said that he wasn't going to do anything but if he was he would let me know.The way he's talking he fully exspects us to be back together soon. I would like that but am not so sure.This is not a game I am playing.I was super upset about being apart but right now I am o.k. with it. I love him but his behavior is going to kill that if he doesn't stop lying.
Barb, I know that you and your H have seperate bank accounts. My ex & I also had seperate accounts when we were together. I was wondering if he would agree to put you on his account - so you can take over the strip club investigation. You can be added to his account without being listed as a signer on the account. So you wouldn't be able to write checks or withdrawl money, but you would be able to get any information you wanted regarding the account. You would also be able to pull up his account on-line and view all checks & withdrawls.
It doesn't surprise me that your H thinks you guys will get back together. I've had the impression all along that he doesn't take you serious. That's why I think it is so important to show him that you love him but you can & will live without him if he doesn't start being honest with you.
I hope this all works out for you. Two years is a long time to be on the same roller coaster. I have a tee shirt that says "love is like a merry-go-round, stay on it long enough & you'll throw up".
Funny T-shirt, & VERY true.Thanks for the info about the bank stuff. Good idea. H called me before he went to bed around 2:15 a.m. Twice,maybe 3 times, he mentioned that he missed me. I told him that I missed him too(no emotion). I am actually doing o.k. with this seperation. I am not happy that it has come to this, but am doing o.k..I would lke to see things work out so that we could stay married BUT am not into rushing into anything.I need to be without him right now.Time & space.I would think that it would be good for him too. He needs to be alone & decide if he REALLY wants to be a H & father(he says he does)& if he can do what needs to be done(be honest & faithful) to retain those things. I don't know if he can.
O.K. I am actually doing really well with being seperated. H & the whole mess are on my mind ALOT but I'm not panicky at all & feel o.k. H called alittle while ago & he seemed to be doing o.k. too. I figured that he'd be o.k. after the first few nights.He didn't sound so sad today. Anyway, I am doing what I need to do. I don't call him,like I use to always do, & when he does call I show no emotion at all. MY QUESTION is:How do you walk the fine line between standing your ground & showing no emotion ,& yet not pushing the WS away for good? Am I making sense with this question? I don't want to foul things up in case there is a chance we could work things out later on. So, I don't want to sound so disinterested & unloving that he gives up. Yet, I need this time & space & I need to be strong & unemotional. I need it for me as well as for the situation. I want him to understand that I can make it alone & am prepared to do so BUT that I do love him & hope that in the future we can work things out.At this point H states that he wants us to get back together & believes that it will happen.I have stated that I love him & that I hope for the same thing But have also been mentally preparing myself in case that doesn't happen. Did I say the wrong thing? I do tell him that I love him & miss him but I show no emotion when I say it. No more crying,begging, wimpy wife. I'm sick of showing the scared & heartbroken side to him.He just takes advantage of it.At this point the seperation is for the purpose of waiting for the bank inquiry.After that, we will decide what to do.So, am I doing what I need to be doing as far as communication? I did mention today that I was doing fine- put oil,brake fluid, & coolant in my car, & had things scheduled out to take our son to his baseball pictures & game this afternoon.It's supposed to be hot & I have 5 daycare kids to take with me. Snacks are packed & ready to go. Just gotta remember the sunscreen & we are set. Anyway, I would really like everybody's advice. I know you guys think I never listen but I really do, at least sometimes!
<<MY QUESTION is:How do you walk the fine line between standing your ground & showing no emotion ,& yet not pushing the WS away for good?>>
Barb, here's how you do it: stand your ground; don't push him away.
Stand your ground and not push him away by: focussing on YOUR healing, not your H's feelings; focussing on YOUR boundaries, not your H's consequences (or punishments or comeuppance); focussing on your issues, not your husband's problems.
<<I figured that he'd be o.k. after the first few nights.He didn't sound so sad today.>> That's nice, Barb, but what if he wasn't "ok"? What if he called you sobbing on the phone? Would you do or say anything differently? Why are you trying to shield him from the natural consequences of his actions? If he purporsely screws up and lies about it, he should be sad. He put you through enough grief.
Barb, allow him to deal with the consequences of his actions by himself. He's a big boy. If not, well, he should grow up. IMO, you should let him do that.
Jean
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Jun 24, 2006 3:12 PM
Your H seems a lot like mine was. I went the D route, but I did learn somethings on how I could have stayed with him. My H biggest fear was that I would hold the A over his head for ever... and he was right, that's why I divorced him. I knew I couldn't get over it. So here is the tough question - Do you think if your H starts being honest about everything that you would eventually trust him again or is he in for a life sentence? I ask becuase I think your H may want to stay with you and the kids, but not under a microscope.... Maybe he can't imagine living year after year with his each & every move being looked at.
It is a fine line between being strong and pushing him away. Try not asking him any questions about where he's been & what he's doing. You can still talk to him & be nice. Tell him about what fun you had at the movies. You need to be a happy not sad a person. Be the kind of person that is fun to be with. You & your H should meet for a dinner date (after you find out about the strip club thing.) Use this time to try and start over - kind of like dating. Have to stop short, I have an appointment. I'll write more later.
Thanks Sherrie! I had to take my son over to H's work to get my son an emergency haircut. Long story don't ask! Anyway, I stayed in the van & after the haircut he came out & said "hi" & that he missed me. He said that he would stop by tonite for a few minutes to say "Hi" to the kids & I. On the way home my van overheated. I think I need a new radiator or hoses. I had filled it up this morning with coolant & H2O & it completly overheated & is bone dry now. So, I left H a message & asked him if he could look at it since he's comming over anyway.Wish I didn't have to ask him for help for anything. I don't have any money to take it to get fixed somewhere though.Anyway, We can't go out to dinner because H has no time or money. He has to work basically nonstop between now & the end of the month because we don't have July's rent yet or the utility bill($500 & some ). So, it's stressful as usual.But at least he will stop by tonight.
Barb,
I don't see much hope for the two of you if you can't even spend 20 minutes at the local Mc D's. Right now all you two share are the problems that life brings. Nobody would want to stay in that kind of relationship. I know you don't want to move to a cheaper house, but if it will save you $300.00 a month, ease some of the stress and be one less job a month that your H doesn't have to work, maybe you two should think about it. Having time together that isn't spent talking about bills, affairs, kids or broke vehicles is really, really important. If you could find some place that isn't to far away from where you live now I bet most of the parents would still have you watch their kids. Just a thought. I really don't see how you two can work on the marriage or how he had the time to go to a strip club if you can't even sit down for a meal together.
I'm glad your doing OK, I know this must be a very painful & scary time for you. Try and have a little fun somehow, someway.
Hi Sherrie! I have told H that if he wants to move that would be fine. But, he doesn't want to. we are still holding on to the chance that we can get out home back in the next 8 months or so. Also, there are very few landlords that will let you do daycare because of the liability. The current landlords are making me get daycare insurance & I am having a hard time with it. They had me fill out one policy & the company turned me down unless I hire someone to help, get rid of my pool & trampoline(daycare doesnn't use either one) & cut my hrs. down to 14 hrs. a day. Well, all my parents work different shifts & I would lose alot of business. So, the landlords gave me another policy form to fill out.I hope this one will accept me.Terry has that job interview in Portland on Monday. If he gets hired it will help alot. He would still have to do the side jobs too but at least it would be a step in the right direction.Terry just left a little while ago. He fixed my van. Then we noticed a brake fluid leak as he was getting ready to leave. So,he will look at that next time. I just put fluid in this morning so it will be o.k. for a few days.It's hard for me to see him. He called a few minutes after he left & said he was sorry he had to leave so soon & we couldn't visit much. I told him that it was very hard for me to be around him. He said that it was hard to see me too. I was puzzled & asked "Why?". He said it's because he knows he has to go back to work & probably won't see me for a few days.Actually, it's almost easier for me not to see him. I can be strong as long as I don't have to see him.But, I didn't let on that it makes me sad to see him. I acted like things were fine for me.
Jean, that's because it is confusing. When I first found out about the coast lie on top of the strip club lie, I told him I was done. Then we talked a day or so later & when he explained about the coast thing I understood why he was afraid to tell me. He did orginally go down there to work but the pressure of the bills, no real job, me not believeing about the strip club, etc. got to him & he didn't know how to tell me that he just needed some time alone to try & figure out how to keep paying the rent, utilities, spend time with the kids & I, etc. So, after he opened up & explained that he ended up getting himself into a mess(lie) that he didn't actually plan on doing. It was a dumb thing to lie, I understood why he did it. It was wrong BUT I understand.He knew the reaction he would have gotten out of me if he had just gone there to think. We are seperated because we are waiting for the bank inquiry results(I know the ans. to that) & because we need some time to be apart & think. At least I do.He says that he knows he wants to be with me.I have chated with Tex & he thinks that we still have a chance if we handle things the right way. I need this time alone for a breather. It's been 2 yrs. of hell & I am mentally & physically tired. I need time by myself to think & decide what I want to do. I am going to take that time.
I think you both have a chance, too, Barb. But it seems that you aren't really separated -- you both see each other or talk to each other every day, both say that you miss and love each other, and when something goes wrong (i.e., the car), you call him first and he comes to help you. He just sleeps someplace else.
See what I'm saying?
I do think that the both of you taking time away from each other would be a good thing, but you're not doing it.
I know all this stuff is hard to work through. When I made my (former) husband leave, he did. I tried not to call him for anything (outside of children or support issues). This went pretty well for me for about two months, until Labor Day weekend when I allowed him to come over to the house and wash/wax his car (dumb on my part, but I wanted to be "nice"), and had a meltdown because I asked him to kiss me and he wouldn't -- I emotionally collapsed, didn't want to live, and went into the hospital for 2 nights. I'm mentioning this because I want you to know that I know it's haaaaarrrrrrrrrd.
If the bank inquiry comes back to support the evidence, what will you do then? Have you started putting all your ducks in a row -- thought about a system to help ensure that he will pay for the rent, bills, whatever while you two are separating the household? Could he make direct deposits into your bank account?
Jean
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Jun 25, 2006 8:35 AM
Hi Jean. I know what you are saying about us not really being seperated.I have been pretty good about not calling him. My son't hair disaster yesterday was not something that was going to be taken care of without dad's help.He was too embarrased to go to Hair Master's or someplace like that & I didn't want to spend the money to go somewhere to do it. I stayed in the van & my 2 younger kids went into the place my H is working. As far as the van, I really did need his help.Other than that I don't just call to chat & that is a really BIG thing for me. Ever since the A I have always called him alot.Now, it's just him calling me.Anyway, I like this time away from him. I am focusing on losing the weight that I gained.I am able to relax some & not worry about when he is comming home & what he is up to.We have talked some about what will happen if we get a divorce. H says that he will continue to pay the rent & utilities. He also stated that he would help out any other way that he can(car repair,taking kids to their sports stuff,etc). I would get custody but he could have visitation. Also, he said that I could move whereever I want to if I decide not to stay here.We talked about all of this before I had him move out. He is positive that we will stay together tough. He was still saying that on the phone last night. He said that he wasn't at the strip club & is hopeful that in the end the inquiry will show that.I don't believe that.
Just got back from the $1.50 movie.I went to a movie by myself, & my daughter & her boyfriend went to another movie in the same complex.I have to say that I made the right decision by having H move out.I feel more at peace than I have in a long time.It's like I finally feel a little bit of calm.I am focused on losing weight & being o.k. It's given me a break from this whole A mess.I have surprised myself because I have not obsessed about what H is doing.Haven't even asked him. Now,that's been unheard of behavior since the A mess started.I wonder if he thinks it's strange that I don't call him or ask what he's doing? I know, I'm not supposed to care what he thinks but gee, I can't help but wonder what he's thinking.Anyway, I like the way things are right now. I miss him but I need to be alone."Course,how alone can you be with 4 kids & lots of daycare?!!
H came by just now to drop off some new sponges,mits, etc. for our kids to use because the 2 younger ones want to have a car wash.It's strange because I thought that I would look forward to seeing him but each time he stops by, I am just relieved when he is gone. What does that mean? Is it a defense mechanism on my part or what?I'm not really lonely either.How will I know if I want us to get back together or if I want to end things?Right now I guess that it's a defense thing just to not miss him or have any feelings about him.He called me today & I asked him if he wanted a divorce & he said "no". I said that I had run out of energy to deal with his lying.I said that first there was the A lies. Then he lied about a week or 2 after I found out about the A.That was after he had said he wouldn't lie anymore. Then I think he lied about the Bachelor party last Fall. I am still waiting about the proof for that & now the strip club thing & the coast trip. I told him that I have had enough of the lies.It's funny because I can say all of this without any emotion.I guess I forgot how strong I can be when I need to be. Just like when my first H disappeared without any warning & took my car & all my money.I made it thru the c-section alone, & took care of both kids. So, I can do whatever I need to.I don't feel whimpy like I did even a few weeks ago.Oh well, sorry to babble on. It's 100 & too hot to cook dinner so think I will go get a $5 pizza from Little Caesers for the kids. It's Slim-Fast for me!! I might even make it to 24 Hour Fitness later tonight!
Hi Barb,
Seems like things are getting a little easier for you. Keep in mind you will still have those days when nothing seems right and you miss the heck out of him. I'm so glad your not asking him questions about what he's doing & where he's been.
"I can't help but wonder what he's thinking".
He is probably wondering what happened to his nagging wife Just kidding!
When I was going threw this A mess, I was all consumed with it. My every thought had to do with my H. It's not a healthy way to live. This break sounds like it was just what you needed to stop revolving your life & every thought around your H. Take this time to reconnect with yourself. A lot of times we get lost in our marriages and forget who WE are.
Taking a step back is sometimes needed to go forward! Your doing great!
I am feeling so much better. Today I actually feel HAPPY! I had forgotten that feeling.I'm actually sitting here smiling! I know that I will have bad days too but I'm enjoying this time alone.You are so right- we do forget who we are.I feel free right now. I don't mean "free as in single" I just mean "free"! I have been really good about not calling H.It occured to me that I don't NEED to talk to him.He calls & I'm nice to him when he does but I don't wait by the phone for him to call.The kids & I rented "Scary Movie 3 " last night & it was good to spend time with them & laugh. They had their friend spend the night & we had fun.H has to stop by this evening to look at my car again. It is still overheating & I need to get the problem solved before I take the kids to the zoo in Portland on the 3rd. Portland is 2 hrs. away & I don't want to take a chance of having car trouble!
Oops! Let me rephrase what I said above. H doesn't have to stop by the house to look at my van again tonight. H doesn't "have" to do anything. H is being nice enough to look at my car again tonight. There, I stand corrected!And I do appreciate his help.
Another subject! I would like your opinions. I said something to H on the phone last night. I told him that if we work things out, that I would like him to "court me' or "win me back" so to speak.He said that he could do that. So my question is, in what ways is it good or appropriate to ask the WS to "win" the BS back? I guess that didn't make alot of sense. What I mean is- I don't expect him to kiss my ass(I wanted that in the beginning of this whole mess) BUT I do wish he would treat me like he did when we were first dating.Is that even possible after you've been together for so long?!
Not only is it possible, it is imperative in a marriage from time to time. That romantic rush isn't the real thing and doesn't last for long, but it is the cordiality, the respect, and the romance from knowing each other so well that makes the "dates" even better than when you first dated!
Glad to hear you are doing so much better. I certainly think your husband Can treat you now like he did when you were first dating if he wants to. The romance is great and the respect is imperrative. One thing my H and I are both doing now which I feel is very important, especially when you have been together a long time, is NOT to take each other for granted again. It's easy to do and can get a couple into all kinds of trouble. Good luck. I hope everything works out for you.
Angela
Current Topic - Please Encourage Me! / You Were Right Tex
He opened up alot.
