Thank you for sharing your story on the Members board, and welcome to a place none of us ever wanted to find or to know.
You will find people who understand your circumstances, your feelings, your pain.
Please tell us a little more about you and your story...how long since you found out, what is happening now, etc. It is hard to imagine now, but there is help and understanding here.
I found out about my wifes affair last October (sort of). There were signs of an affair but no proof so I was a complete mess until it all unraveled on June 2, 2006. i found all the evidence I needed on that day and she admitted to everything, even things I wouldnt have imagined. I discovered something about myself through all this: Dishonesty hurts me more than infidelity. If you asked me which hurt more a year ago I would have said infidelity without question. They both hurt but honesty is now at the top of my list. We are doing very good considering what has just happened, we have three children and we have been able to keep them completely out of this. No one in our families know either. Our bosses are the only ones so they can work with us on time off and the like, plus we both have exceptional bosses that we find easy to confide in (mine is male and hers is female) We have both returned to church with a passion, we have both quit drinking entirely - not that we have a dringking problem but alcohol really messes with your emotions at a time like this. We both need very clear heads right now. She seems to be completely on board with our approach but only time will tell. Somtimes I feel like we are rushing the healing process but again, only time will tell. We are doing everything together, cooking, cleaning, playing, yard work, carpooling to work, etc. We comunicate all day long now via email and text messaging. Things are going very, very good. 8 months ago when I sort of caught her in the beginning stages, she was able to lie her way out of her true feelings toward him and she faked all this same kind of stuff we did then so it could be happening again and I just dont realize it but this time she seems very forthcoming with information. I dont know if I should be getting invloved but I have been trying to help the wife (Kathy) of the other man deal with the affair, I've had 8 months to work through so much of this in my head before i had all the facts, she didnt, I just went to her house one day and in a few minutes her whole life was turned upside down. I asked my wife to come to her house that same day (he was at work), they both agreed to see each other and the next thing you know my wife and his wife were standing in front of me talking and crying. A few days later my wife swears she saw the devil, she went and talked to our priest and went to confession, she came home and told me she feels God has forgiven her but she needed to talk to Kathy again to give her any and all information she wanted. My wife gathered a big stack of emails she had printed out and saved along with pictures of the two of them together. She reserved a private room at our church and I asked Kathy if she would visit with my wife, she agreed and the three of us sat and talked and cried and went over each and every email and picture until Kathy had no more questions. The meeting lasted over 4 hours, when we parted Kathy hugged my wife and told her that she saw my wife as a sister in God. She is one amazing woman and I just wish her husband could see what he is losing, he has no idea what kind of a wife he had. So, now we are trying to put things back together, some days are great and some days are unbearable. Only time will tell.
I'm sorry that you've had to come looking for us, but welcome to our site. We have a lot of very cool people here who are all dealing with infidelity from one side or the other.
""""She reserved a private room at our church and I asked Kathy if she would visit with my wife, she agreed and the three of us sat and talked and cried and went over each and every email and picture until Kathy had no more questions. The meeting lasted over 4 hours,""""
I'll bet most of the folks here wish that we had been given this much consideration. It took a lot of courage for your wife to face his wife, especially willing to give up details and pictures. That is amazing. I just want to warn you though, I was good at getting to the details too. The details haunted me for years. But I'd still rather know than not know. I wouldn't have been able to stay if I didn't get the details.
Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe sometime when she is ready, maybe your wife can read and post here as well. If it is ok with you. We find that people from both sides of the fence are very helpful to most who post here.
""""Dishonesty hurts me more than infidelity.""""
Many would agree with you on that one. I find that they both hurt just as deeply for different reasons.
Again, welcome. I wish you and your wife peace and all those who were affected by their affair. Keep reading and posting. We are here for you.
Wish you well,
H2C
This message has been edited by hurt2core on Jul 5, 2006 7:16 PM
Thank you for your support. Every single day is a battle, especially knowing the details but I know a lot happened in 9 months so I would only be lying to myself if I thought those intimate things didnt happen. The truth hurts, but at least its the truth, that is so important right now. I have found some peace in reflecting on our history - we go way back to the 5th grade as boyfriend and girl friend, my wife is the first girl I ever kissed and i am her first as well. There we were, right behind my dads shed in my backyard, we agreed to french kiss, as soon as our tongues touched she promptly spit it out and gave me a look like she just bit into a lemon. She warmed up to the idea again when she was 16. She's an amazing person, I pray that this is a real wake up call for her.
Right now I'm just on a huge roller coaster, the highs are so high but the lows are just so low that I fear they will do more damage to our relationship. I need to learn to cope somehow.
<<<Right now I'm just on a huge roller coaster, the highs are so high but the lows are just so low that I fear they will do more damage to our relationship. I need to learn to cope somehow.>>>
That roller coaster feeling is very normal and we all have experienced it and many of us STILL do. You say you fear the lows will do more damage to your relatinship. Use those lows to help your relationship. Talk to your wife when you are feeling low. Let her know what is on your mind. Let her help you. In the beginning I would sit on the couch with my husband presumably to watch TV but I would "zone out." I'd be staring off into space in my own little world, thinking and hurting. My husband would see this and not know what to do. Now I tell him what I am feeling and thinking and it has really opened up the lines of communication between us.
You say you need to learn to cope. That may be true but give yourself time. I had many people here tell me not to be too hard on myself because I expected to be further along on the healing continuum than I was. Be patient with yourself. It will come.
You said "Somtimes I feel like we are rushing the healing process but again, only time will tell. We are doing everything together, cooking, cleaning, playing, yard work, carpooling to work, etc. We comunicate all day long now via email and text messaging. Things are going very, very good."
Your post struck a chord within me...I too hate the dishonesty of my wife's affairs. Three months after learning about her second affair, I learned about the first one. A long story, and maybe I should post the details later.
We too went through the rushing phase...we did all that you and your wife are doing, and we renewed our vows before I learned about the first affair. The affair I had discovered was actually her second one.
None of us can give you a road map to healing, you will find yourself travelling at breakneck speed as you have described. Then you may find yourself slipping backwards occasionally. You may also experience the "Plains of Lethal Flatness" as you continue on your journey. The plains of lethal flatness can best be described as like this. You feel like you are walking on the path to healing, but you look around, and its like being in the desert...there are no landmark to measure you progress against. You feel like you are going nowhere. I have been there a couple of times in the last four years.
The best advice I can give you is it takes time...you will get sick of hearing that. Let yourselves take the time to work through issues one day at a time. No matter how upset you may be, try to take a few minutes in the evening and just hold each other. What worked for us was being close, not saying anything, letting go of anger or frustration, and spending a few minutes either holding each other or one of us leaning on the other in the loveseat. Go to bed with your wife, not with the memories of what she has told you, not with the issues the affair has brought into your relationship.
What happens after you get there...well that is up to the two of you and how well you can let go of the issues before arriving in the bedroom.
Not for one minute do I think sex will fix anything, what helps fix things is closeness, the level of closeness if for the two of you to determine, again, one day at a time.
Yes, that is a hard thing to do, it took me about three months to be able to make love to her and feel that we were alone.
I am going to make a general statement right now, men, myself included, are as a rule very visual creatures. I was able to go to be and leave the OM outside of the bedroom. I did this over time by visualizing myself "locking" him out of that room.
And no technique is perfect, there were a few times that "mind trick" on myself didn't work. The whole point is, don't go to bed mad, or with thoughts of the affair. What I found happened more often than not was I would wake up in the morning and the thoughts would be there.
It was strange, after D-day one, I guess you could say we were at each other like bunny rabbits. Then D-day two hit, and our sex life almost ended. That went on for about six months. Then things worked themselves back to normal, that is what was normal for us.
Much of the time that first year, I would be content just holding my wife. Closeness is not sex, but sex can be part of closeness. Hope that helps explain what I was trying to say.
Like Brian, the dishonesty, the lying, that is what hurt the most. Closeness for me is based in honesty, honest feelings, honest desires, and honest sharing.
Dave
P.S. Don't for one second think that I am insensitive to the differences between men and women. Some here and others on another board can tell you about my level of sensitivity. I am not the type of man that has to swing from a vine and beat his chest. I was a single parent with two daughters going into and through puberty. That meant I was the chief cook and bottle washer, doing laundry, toilets, cleaning up after sick children, ect. Thanks to my grandmother, I can run a sewing machine, embroidery, and crochet. I also write poetry, and in the last four years have written a couple of real winners because of the pain the affairs brought into my life.
This message has been edited by OleMarbleEyes on Jul 12, 2006 4:51 PM
I saw pictures and read letters they wrote to each other so I know a lot of what they did and said to each other. It's so hard to NOT think about that stuff in the bedroom. I don't go into it with those thoughts in my head but they sometimes come during or immediately after. I still feel so insecure, like I'm being compared and come out second place. He says he doesn't do that and that it's different with us because "love" makes all the difference. I want to believe that but...
I'm still having difficulty even accepting what happened. Maybe when I can finally do that I will be able to let go of the rest of it.
Any other help you can give I would be happy to hear. BTW, I think you are VERY sensitive!
I have also had conversations with the OW. She has been very forth coming ( I can only assume) with my questions and concerns. My husband has been somewhat uncomfortable with me talking to her, but I think it has helped some. I am not far enough away from my d-day to know just how much it has helped talking with her, but at least she isn't a faceless, unknown thing to me, she is a real person. She actually was the one who gave me a d-day at all, he had lied, since he had ended it before I found out. She was pissed and decided it would be a good idea to let me in on all the details. Some of which I could do without, but I am not sure I would have ever gotten the whole truth if she hadn't spoke up...
Well the OM sent my wife an email and bcc'd me. He stated that he was going to devulge everything to me in a future email. I showed my wife the email (I seen them first) and I confronted her because he elluded to a few things that were not consistant with what my wife told me. Well it turns out that once she was backed into a corner (once again) thats when more truth strted coming out. She has been having sex with him from the very beginning and their first kiss was in our house. Since she kept this info from me after my second d-day, it required her to start lying again to cover her story that sex didnt start until January when in fact, it started in September. She says she was not telling me that part because she didnt want to hurt me anymore, she didnt want me to think of her as a slut, and sex was sex, so she didnt think it would matter how often. and the first kiss in our house, she didnt want to ruin "our" kissing spot in our kitchen, thats where she kissed him. There were a couple other sensless lies as well. What the lies did was just create yet another d-day for me. My love for her has now become conditional, this was the last straw. She finally took my unconditional love for her, I didnt know someone could actually "take" that from me. I just started to care less with this third hit. I am not giving up but I am not going through another d-day without her packing her bags. I told her I will be there by her side to give her a chance to save our marriage, the burden is on her now, I will help wherever I can, I will work as hard or even harder than I ever had but if she lets me down again, if there is another d-day, it will be the last time. I have to draw that line somewhere. Now that I got my feelings out - any input? suggestions? Helpfull insight? I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO END, I LOVE MY WIFE!!!
Brian, I suspect that OM did this to drive a wedge between you and your W. Is your wife still seeing him? If not then it may be a desperate act on his part to drive you away with more detailed information.
You should watch to see if your wife gets angry with him at this point. If she does then that might mean that she never wanted you to find out that the sex was going on longer than she said. If she doesn't get mad at him then she and he may be trying to drive you over the edge. Making you make the hard decisions. Understand?
My situation was similar, on d-day 1, I discovered the affair, my wife swore to me it was just an emotional, some kissing and fondling. Two weeks later, I got a call from the OM’s wife and she told me he admitted to having sex. So that was d-day 2…
About three months later I confronted and she admitted to an affair in 1997 with another OM. Multiple D-days suck…there is no other way to put it. In between there were other admissions.
It is very common for the WS to hold back information, even lie. And then there are the lies of omission…you get the truth, but only the minimal amount. When you have ask a question, or have a discussion, make sure you specify that from now on, no lies, no lies of omission…You want the whole truth, not bits and pieces. Let her know that lies aren't "protecting your feelings," rather they are making a terrible situation even worse.
If you have not already experienced anger, possibly even rage thinking about the situation, you may. Do not let it control you, try to vent it here on the boards and not at you wife. You will get a lot further with getting you questions answered if you maintain some semblance of calmness and rational thinking and responses.
I guess all I can say is, “been there ….done that”…it’s hard. I think letting her know you have drawn a line is good. But you have to give her a “safe zone” when talking to you and coming clean about the affair. If you feel yourself getting angry over what you learn, take a walk, come back in twenty minutes and resume. Another tip, don’t try to get all the answers at once.
In my case, knowing the truth was not as bad as my imagination, however, it hurt like hell to hear the whole truth. And in getting the whole truth you realize how many times you were lied to. If you wife is truely wanting to save your relationship they you have to listen to the truth. The fact that she lied about the past and is coming clean is important. That coming "clean" needs to be the issue, don't count the lies, don't let the lies be the issue, deal with the present
To give my W that safe zone, what I did was thank her when she finally started telling me the truth, then told her that I needed some time to digest what she had said, and that I would most likely have more questions later.
I then walked out of the room, went to my computer and played solitaire for a few hours while I digested the information. Solitaire is great when you need to free your mind for thinking about things...
The next day, I had some more questions. Because I was so calm (atleast outwardly) the day before, and didn't make her "pay" for being open and honest, it made her even more comfortable the next time... and the next, and the next.
If you get mad, go to the gym, go for a walk, vent here, etc. I found physical exercise GREAT for releasing that pent up anger...
If you're fighting to save your marriage, not blasting your spouse for doing what you wanted them to do in the first place (tell the truth) is a good strategy.
Cory
The Three Rules of Happiness: Friends, Freedom and an Analyzed Life - Epicurus
You pretty much nailed it I think. She is not still seeing him and she was very upset with him for the email he sent. Her claim for lying was to avoid hurting me anymore. The problem with that, as I'm sure you all know, one lie, even lies of omission, (there were actually 4 lies discovered on this last d-day)create the need to lie more and more to cover up the origial lies. We discussed that yesterday, I asked her if she understood that those 4 lies created the need for her to rachet up her lying again to make the "story" make sense as I continued to ask questions over the past month and a half. She said she did see that happening but hadnt thought about it when she lied to "spare" my feelings. She said she strted to wish that I would stop asking so many questions so she didnt have to keep lying. It completely amazes me that one lie can trigger the need for so many others. When you add many lies to the equation then the situation escelates from bad to worse exponentialy. I have come to realize that lying is about the worst kind of betrayal a marriage can encounter, infidelity is only worse in a different way because you can not correct infidelity, it's like losing your virginity. Once your wifes body has been violated by another man, there is no undoing it. You can only learn to cope.
You said, "I have come to realize that lying is about the worst kind of betrayal a marriage can encounter, infidelity is only worse in a different way because you can not correct infidelity, it's like losing your virginity. Once your wifes body has been violated by another man, there is no undoing it. You can only learn to cope."
You may not realize it, but that is one big step forward. Most here will agree with you on the lying, for me, it was the worst part. The lying in one sense is like continued infidelity. I hated it worse than the fact that there had been sex, that another man was with my wife. We were both married before, so we weren't virgins.
The lying is a continued "breaking of the vows" as far as I am concerned. I hope you are sharing this site with your wife. I know that some new arrivals, and maybe a few bitter betrayed spouses can be rough on a FWS (Former Wandering Spouse). GT is one of the FWS's that helped me understand more about what my wife did, and helped me sort out my feelings better than anyone.
If she reads here, she may be able to more easily understand the depth of the pain that her actions caused. My wife reads here and at another site probably more than I do. And yes, some of my posts stir her emotions up, sometimes she will read them and give me a teary hug and again say she is sorry. Sometimes, a post will upset her in another way, but my responses or posts are just me expressing my feelings. In one sense, its another form of honest communicaton for us. If a post is upsetting, then it triggers further discussion about what I feel, about what she feels, and from that we both learn more about each others desires, needs, and emotional state.
It (her and I both reading here) may not work for others, but it has helped us with communication issues.
Good luck,
Dave
Edited to add:
It sounds like you have already expressed or explained to her that continued lying is not protecting your feelings. If you are like me, your feelings have been hurt deeper than you could have imagined. Continued lies are like ripping open a wound and pouring salt in time, after time, after time. That is the part that makes it hurt more.
This message has been edited by OleMarbleEyes on Jul 20, 2006 11:52 AM This message has been edited by OleMarbleEyes on Jul 20, 2006 11:51 AM
As you read you will discover that a lot of WS's continue to lie over and over. Often they say it is to spare your feelings. I know mine said that but it was as much if not more to keep from digging himself a deeper grave. Plus the fact that he had ended it all and felt terrible about what he did so he had a hard time admitting his betrayals and stupidity! Anyway, it is common.
I also technically had 3 d-days. On June 28, 2005 I discovered an Emotional Affair with woman #1. Then on July 1, 2005 I discovered a Physical Affair with woman #2. Then on July 25, 2005 I discovered that the emotional affair with the first woman became a physical affair after the affair with #2 ended.
As Dave says:
<<<Multiple D-days suck…there is no other way to put it.>>>
I also had multiple D-days. Without a doubt, the lying after we thought we were working things out were what caused our divorce, not the initial A. For over a year my ex and I seemed to be doing fairly well - not perfect, mind you, but well. I had thought we were recovering from the only A that I thought he had had. I found out later that there were a few others he never told me about. The continued lies were what ended our marriage.
As you might have figured out, her lying to "protect you from hurt" was in reality protecting herself from consequences of her actions. Trying to put her finger in the dike after causing the flood, so to speak.
The other part is I can identify with your memories of being young and basically growing up together. My H and I were 14 when we met and were friends at first. It is a very special gift to have memories together that go so far back. As far as I know, neither of us had been with anyone else prior to our marriage and for awhile beyond, at least.
Hopefully she will begin to grow through this process and you can salvage a lot of good things that have been there all along, and make new memories and committments. It won't be exactly the same, but still worth working for.
We will fix this mess. We will make our marriage stronger, we will have more love for each other than ever before. Yes, we will have more pain, we will have more adversity, there will be more tears. But I will not let 9 months of another man ruin what we have had for so many years, 29 to be exact. I am only in control of half of these claims but I am also in love with the other half and love can do amazing things. I may have week moments early on but I will strengthen, I feel she is committed to that too. I realized in the beginning that he was taking away everything - my love making, certain positions, certain places, driving my own van, he was taking so many things because it was hurtful to "relive" what they had shared - I finally took a stand and said to myself, "he took enough, he is not going to take anymore". I faced the fears and I kissed my wife, I kissed her in the kitchen right in the spot where they shared their first kiss, I make love to her, intenionally in all the positions that they encountered, I drive my wifes van every single day now since we started car pooling together, we had the option to take our other vehicle but I wanted to overcome the fear and pain that I thought I would feel when I was in the van that they had sex in so many times. By attacking it head on I have overcome so much, I know I have a long way to go, it's not over by a long shot. Dont get me wrong, it is very difficult at times, it still is with many things but I will NOT let him take any more from me, especially since my wife is here to support me, she doesnt have to be, she wants to be. She is in half control of my life and she chose to stay and bless my life. I owe her a chance, I owe her the love I promised on our wedding day.
Karen, I love you. We will make this work, It may be the hardest most humbling thing we ever do, but we will make this work. Our life story and our childrens childhood and adulthood depend on it. They will be able to look back and see the love in our family.
Karen is a lucky gal. I think most of us who have separated/divorced would have loved for our spouses to be as supportive and caring as you seem to be but we weren't that lucky.
