I managed to confront her, although not much has been said. I went to the place they where having there date! after a while I saw them walking across the car park (I believe they must have had a walk around the nearby park.) The went in to the bowling place to rearrange there time. then went of hand in hand and kissing to the resuarant. After the meal they went back to the bowling and played three games, I watched all of them from the bar in the bowling alley. inbetween the games they had an embrace. and after the last game they embraced and kissed a few times. So I walked up to them said something like (I can't really remember!) 'Did you enjoy those kisses' or 'Have you got some kisses left for me' I can't remember. She looked at me and said 'Go Away' (Which probably matches what I have read here.) I just said talk to you at home and I walked out. I waited a be before I left and as she hadn't left the bowling alley I quickly popped in I could only see the back of them but they where both sitting together, not touching. I now waiting for her to come home.
It's been just over a week since I posted. After I confronted her, my wife finally got home at 1 we didn't have much time to talk as we where going away on a school residental and we hadn't packed. She did make an excuse that she was a mess which is why it happened, which I don't believe. I know she had to have a talk to the police which she wouldn't have liked at all, but that wasn't the reason for it. She says that she is still going to see him, he's a friend (has been for 13 years), and its a problem between them and nothing to do with me. She still has been talking to him till 2 in the morning. She also says friends hug and hold hands and that I have to get use to it. Reading the convastions they I think that they are not going to kiss, but I not sure if they will manage it, esp if they think that hugging is ok. They are having there first meeting today so my anxiety it through the roof, I'm not going to find out what they may have done until tomorrow when I can read there message log, depending on what they say. I have said that I wont tell any one where he works (one that I know they people there) unless it carries on.
We have a wedding this weekend and are going away for a few days the weekend afterwards. Which gives me some time alone with my W. Just got to hope that all the feelings and emotion in me isn't going to affect the enjoyment of it all.
"its a problem between them and nothing to do with me".
Here in lies the problem. This is your W, every problem she has, effects you. It becomes your problem as well. If she doesn't understand that, doesn't want to unload on you, doesn't want to share it with you, Where can you go from there? That old saying comes to mind "there's no I in Team".
I'm sorry your going through all this. How are you dealing with them still remaining friends? I don't think I could handle it, you've already seen them kiss! I might be wrong by saying this, but I don't think very many married women hold hands with thier male freinds. I could understand a goodbye Hug, but holding hands seems like it crosses the freindship line.
Just my thoughts I do hope things get better for you. Hopefully this wedding will give you the time alone you two need.
Hi John! Don't fall for the "just friends" things. That's what my H told me for a long time about his secretary(OW). I think that sometimes, in the beginning, the WS even have themselves convinced that it's just friendship & therefore "o.k.".If they were just friends, everything would have been out in the open John. You would have known about all their get togethers, phone calls, etc. You would not have had to sneak around.Take care of yourself. Don't let your W make you feel bad about confronting her.What she is doing is not the appropriate actions for a married woman. She needs to face up to that!!
"""" She also says friends hug and hold hands and that I have to get use to it.""""
BULLSHIT, HORSESHIT, CHICKENSHIT OR HOWEVER YOU SAY IT IN THE UK ! ! ! If she is aware that this is bothering you and she still insists on continuing this behavior then she has little or no respect for you as a husband. First and formost there must be honesty in a relationship. But a very close second is loving partners are considerate of the other partner's feelings regarding the above mentioned behavior. She is not willing to share what they talk about with you so there goes the honesty out the window. John, if this is bothering you then your wife's behavior isn't ok. Your instincts are right on the mark. You are not crazy for feeling this way. You are experiencing a normal gut feeling reaction to a situation that is wrong of your wife's doing. It's your wife that is acting crazy. Loving married people do not treat each other like this. Do not let your wife try to convince you that this behavior is ok for friends. I have many many women friends and I guarantee you that we do not behave this way and I can't believe that your culture would allow it either.
Moe, where are you? Can you help John? As I recall you were like John in the very beginning of your situation.
It was just friends, she was open about when they where meeting (at least at the start), I knew that they where msning till late. The secrecy probably started when I voiced my concern about the amount of time they where msning. He was also a friend of mine. I recently started helping out at an amature stage production company helping behind the scenes. Unfortunatly he helps out there and I don't think that I can carry on helping out. Which is a shame because I really enjoyed the stuff I had done there. Still I have to be comfortable with things.
Let me get this straight....they were meeting each other and on MSN until late at night. You thought it was okay because she was being honest with you. You finally voiced your concerns and she became secretive.
John...she is YOUR wife. All of the time and energy that she spent meeting and messaging OM COULD AND SHOULD have been spent nuturing your marriage. You should never have to compete with anyone in order to spend time with your spouse!
She can slice it and dice it any way she chooses....her behaviour is not the behaviour of a married woman! Please do not let her convince you that this 'friendship' is acceptable...it clearly is not.
Well she's right about one thing: her behavior has nothing to do with you.
Its very common early on for some folks to go through a sort of "bargaining" period in order to keep the WS from leaving. You can keep your so called "friendship" if..." That doesn't last John. It doesn't work... so please remember just because at this moment in time you agreed to it doesn't mean its set in stone.
At the very least she is still continuing an emotional affair with this guy with YOUR approval.
<<<She says that she is still going to see him>>>
And what exactly does she expect you to do in the meantime? Wait at home with open arms? I can't remember if you answered this already but is this guy married or have a g/f? Is she aware of this "friendship"?
<<<They are having there first meeting today so my anxiety it through the roof>>>
A "meeting"? To discuss what exactly and why aren't you attending? Lemme guess: she'll come home and tell you they agreed to nothing "physical". And you are supposed to believe that??? Honestly does it even matter to you? Any contact with him is tearing you up inside and she doesn't care about that. The "meeting" will probably be how to get John off their backs and how to keep you pacified just enough so you don't "out" them.
She will continue to play both sides as long as you keep playing. So stop. If she wants the "friendship" then she doesn't have the marriage...period. She doesn't get both...unless you let her.
She's "messed up" huh? So how does she plan on getting "UNmessed"?
Step back John and begin the process of disengaging until she proves she wants the marriage... for your own sake. Don't get caught up more than you already are in HER fog.
I wish you strength.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jul 13, 2006 2:56 PM
Kara, yes you are right I think the secretiveness started after I voiced my concern.
Tex no he isn't married and doesn't have a g/f. This meeting they had was a meeting up to do some shopping. The messed up was because she had to do something she was very uncomfortable doing (in this case was an interview with the police.) I know this reason is false, she may have been in a state but it would have happened anyway.
I know our marrage had suffered a bit the last few years, we where trying for kids, but there was some problems and I probably got a bit obsessed with it, but this year I've accepted things and moved on, started doing this Stage stuff (which he got me into) shame he's going to be there now. So got to find something else to do.
Great post Tex! You are right on, as usual! Hopefully John will take your advice & not be stubborn as I often was(am). I sure have learned alot on this site. Now if I could just duck those 2X4's(hee)!! No, actually, I needed to be whacked all those times.I am wiser now!
<<< started doing this Stage stuff (which he got me into)>>>
Listen to me buddy. You find your own way with the the help of an IC, books, this site and most importantly...YOU. He might come towards you with a smile and offer to help but in the meantime he is stabbing you in the back. He's not there to help you or your marriage. If he was he would leave right? He's pretending to help because (1) he can still see your wife and (2) you don't tell the folks at his job. Not only that but he gets to see her on HIS terms...when he's ready...he doesn't have to be there fulltime in real life. He gets to be "the hero" and "white knight". Well he's not a hero...he's an asshole.
John...if it was only a "friendship" why would either of them be concerned what anyone else thinks?
He is your enemy John. Period. Start protecting yourself bro....financially, legally, emotionally. Do it .
What worries me is a month from now or sometime in the future she comes to you and says:
"I tried". (No she didn't and never had in intentions of trying). They can't even fake it enough to pretend.
<<<I've accepted things and moved on>>>
What exactly have you excepted and why? You haven't moved on or you wouldn't be hurting so bad.
She has you on the run John and she knows it. She has no reason to change things because she's got the best of both worlds. Your vows said "better or worse" right? Did they say anything about cruelty and continued emotional abuse?
What is her plan to save the marriage? I will tell you what...she doesn't have one because she doesn't need one. She might throw some words around of things that YOU gotta do to keep you off balance. What does SHE have to do?
John...she's in a fog but so are you. In the end that means ultimately...you can't see clearly. Get past your fog of her, the pain, fear and whatever else and open your eyes buddy. Stop expecting, hoping, wishing and start demanding.
If she leaves she was going to do so anyways John...only now she(they) have YOU to blame because she didn't have enough time or you didn't follow his "stages". That's bullshit. You gotta step back John to see that.
Regards,
Tex
edited to add: howdy Barb
and typos
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jul 13, 2006 4:46 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jul 13, 2006 4:44 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jul 13, 2006 4:38 PM
Tex, I may not have explained myself properly. The OM has been with this Stage School for years, I started this year and as they are some techinal stuff it was right up my street. After the first show was out of the way this was when my W and OM started MSNing, but they have been friends for 13 years. And with him being there I don't want to be there, so I'm having to stop something I would have enjoyed.
The think I've accepted was the fact that (at least for the forseeable future.) we wheren't going to have any children of our own. We where thinking about adoption or fostering, that's on hold now.
The fact is this: any contact between your W and the OM is cheating on you. You, she...us folks here... can sugarcoat the words but that's what it is.
Neither of you can work on fixing this with him involved. You know this...whether you admit it or not. She's not even giving it a chance as long as he is in the picture.
She's cheating John. Physically, emotionally...whatever...and she's cheating and she's doing it with your approval.
I doubt this was your defination of marriage. So...what's changed and why? What is her defination of marriage?
The pressure of kids is off the table. So what's her next excuse for maintaining contact with him?
Pin her down. What EXACTLY is he providing that you aren't being given a chance too?
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jul 13, 2006 5:24 PM
Please listen to the wonderful posts by both Tex and H2C, they are so right. She is cheating. Also if your W and him have been bold enough to kiss and hold hands in public, I would seriously wonder it that was all they've done. Do people who have only been on a few dates with each other kiss in public? Did she when you met her?
H2C is right, I see the similarities in that I too went through this things called DENIAL. I made many of the same rationalizations, got the straight up truth from those here and thought "They don't understand. They don't know her.". They knew EVERYTHING, John.
John, are you willing to have an open marriage and to share your wife? Are you willing to be openly and totally disrespected... a non-person in your life? This is what you are accepting and condoning.
Was it Tex who asked what is it that he is providing that you aren't being given a chance to? My question which I took too long to answer for myself that I think is important is 'What is HE not able to provide that YOU are?'. My XW wanted out but for the time being her man did not want out of his marriage yet so she was content to take advantage of my shock and denial phases while she pursued her mission of getting him to leave his wife before I was totally expendable. It was pure Hell to be openly disrespected, lied to, stolen from, and manipulated as I gradually began to find the real truths for myself. It's why I tell those in your shoes that you have to know the real truth of the situation and that you cannot get from your wife or her 'friend'. Yeah, I got the 'just friends' horseshit too.
John, you're posting here which is proof that this is not cool with you. If it is anything with which you don't approve then it is unacceptable. It doesn't take a 6th Grade level education on her part to know that yet she continues, dangles it in front of your face, and tells you to be cool with it. Manipulation and let's face it straight up emotional Sadism. Regardless of what you think, she is getting pleasure from torturing you.
I have jokingly referred to myself as 'Doormat of the Year 2005'... DON'T BE MY SUCCESSOR FOR 2006!!!! I still have to lay down and have feet wiped on me to protect my relationship with my children... I was told never to stand up for myself unless I am prepared to be punished through my kids and I have experienced it but if you continue as you are we will have a unanimous winner for this year.
Put your foot down and stand up for yourself NOW!!! It is imperative that you do so to save your marriage and/or yourself. People at your point fear pushing her away. If you set and enforce your boundaries now and it pushes her away, then you want her to go. Trust me. The worst thing for a man is to lose his dignity... DON'T!!!! Claim it even if it means the end of your marriage. Again, TRUST ME ON THIS!!!
Yeah, the truths I found were terrifying. Shocking in fact. But liberating as well. The things I still am bitter about are all on me, my blame. I don't excuse my X for what she is, but I let it happen. But that's a different story for a different time.
John, you have to take things on your own timeframe. While in shock and denial you can't be expected to make rational or logical examinations of the situation but I beg of you to get there as soon as you can. Your wife is cheating and SHE KNOWS IT! My concern is why does she continue and still has yet to leave you. There is something hidden deep inside where her soul has vacated that needs to be found. That hidden something may be able to lead to a successful reconciliation, but it could also be a darker secret. As I have said and will repeat more is you have to find that yourself because it won't truly be revealed by her. Yes, plots at your extreme expense both personally and financially are possible.
Find and read. I think the resources section here will talk about the "180 List"... this you need to do now! Books like 'Not Just Friends' and 'Love Must Be Tough' are recommended reads. Stand up for yourself now! Your marriage won't be saved without doing so if it is saveable.
I'm sorry to be blunt but as you see we all have been. It's because we see objectively. Educated by our various experiences. And giving it to you straight is our favor to you. Please post and use these great people here. Two things to know... there are people you have never met that genuinely care as well the fact that it is possible for the greatest evil to ever know in your life can come from the closest places.
All of OUR best hopes and wishes to you!
This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Jul 16, 2006 10:03 AM
First of all let me say I understand completely about you having to give up a hobby or past time that you enjoy. Been there, done that... to understand how much of a hobby fishing is, I once fished with another friend 286 days or evenings one year. In addition to my regular job, I also owned a small business where I manufactured fishing tackle. It has been a lifelong hobby, my grandmother has pictures of me with my granddad at age 4 reeling in a fish from the shore. So in no uncertain way, owning a boat has been a lifelong dream
In June of 2001 while driving and listening to the radio I heard an advertisement for a 17 foot LUND "Mr.Pike" fishing boat. I followed up on the information and found a ideal fishing boat, in the water less than 20 hours, complete with all the electronics, trolling motor, ect.
The guy wanted $15,500 for the boat, a deal too good to be true. The bank placed the value of it at $17,300. A local boat dealer told me I wouldn't have got it off his lot for less than $20,500.
I had my fishing buddy, (who owned a boat) go with me, my wife, my buddy, (who became the OM) and myself took it to the lake for a test drive. I remember backing the boat into the water, my wife and the OM were in it. I remember the smile on my wife’s face, she was excited for me. (at this time the was no relationship between the OM and my wife)
That mental image, them in the boat together, both smiling, me happy and excited will forever stick in my mind. The boat was in excellent condition, my buddy drove it and said I would be a fool to pass it up.
So I purchased the boat and we, my wife and I went out fishing ect. We met the OM and his family for a couple of fishing trips. He guides people on fishing trips part time, I even told him when he started having motor problems that he could borrow my life’s dream, my boat.
With 20/20 hindsight, we now know he started pursuing my wife about 3 months later. I discovered the affair July 2, 2002. So, I enjoyed my life long dream of owning a fishing boat for a year. After the affair, my wife and I had the boat in the water once. On that trip, I realized my I never again wanted to use the boat. It was too much of a trigger.
The boat sat in my garage for the next three years collecting dust, and empty boxes that I used for shipping parts in my job. Meanwhile, we made the payments to the bank, paid for insurance, and personal property taxes on if for the three years.
The first year after D day I told my wife I wanted to sell the boat. She didn't believe me. In 2005, before the insurance was due, I told her I really wanted to sell it, told her I never wanted to be in it again. She cried, blamed herself for destroying a life long dream and pleaded with me to trade it for a new boat.
That’s what I did, and we have enjoyed it together since then. In fact, as much as I hate to admit it, she has caught the largest walleye caught out of the boat. (Walleye are almost identical to sauger if you don’t know what a walleye is)
It took me three years to recapture my hobby, and yes, with the largest lake in my state nine miles north of me, I still see the OM, his boat, or his pickup when I go fishing. But you know what, I have a nicer boat, a nicer pickup truck, and a prettier wife. He seldom takes his wife fishing, mine has made every trip with me in the new boat.
Dreams can be recaptured, it just takes time….
Dave
Forgiving is not forgetting...it's remembering with your mind at peace.
Well, for this boat the record is slightly over 3 lbs....However I have a 11 lb. 4 oz. walleye mounted for the wall. I caught it from the same lake in 1986 in the middle of a blizzard in March.
Young (kinda of) and stupid...couldn't see 50 ft and here I am out on the lake fishing...
Thanks for your message, I'm currently looking for a new hobby or something to keep me occupied, something which I can enjoy just as much. I have only done one show which was at easter so at least I hadn't had years of doing it.
The wedding was good, seeing all of the old faces etc. Although it hard to hold back all of the emotion, being a wedding and all.
The wife and I did get to speak a bit over the weekend, but didn't get very far. especally me asking who texting her everytime her phone goes, and making comments abuot the OM. Anyway I've decided to go and see a counsellor (just me wife doesn't see a need, what a surprise!) and way it can't hurt hopefully they help, even if it just to cope with the emotion.
I had to go to the school where OM works, he asked me there before to Video the headmistress leaving show. I did think of pulling out but didn't, I just tried my best to avoid him and blanked him if I couldn't avoid him. I've also told the school that I wont be able to come in any more (I used to go in one friday morning every two weeks, It's a special needs school) told them that it was because of my work.
I'm still reading there MSN conversions and although I don't think that they have kissed again, it's probably only a matter of time. When I confronted them I told my W that I wouldn't tell anyone, mostly for myself, it also gave me something to hold over them.
Well I had the first counselling session which went ok, just me but at least I can talk face to face with someone who knows abuot these things. So hopefully it will help me cope with what ever happens.
<<<I'm still reading there MSN conversions and although I don't think that they have kissed again, it's probably only a matter of time. When I confronted them I told my W that I wouldn't tell anyone, mostly for myself, it also gave me something to hold over them.>>>
I don't know if this a "stiff upper lip British attitude thing" or what but nothing sounds right about this. Friends do not behave the way your wife and this man have been behaving. You saw your wife kiss this man and embrace and hold hands. (Right there you are a lot more tolerant then me. I would have walked up to them and decked them both!) She talks to him online into the night. I'm not sure what you are holding over her because it seems she is continuing the behavior at least with the messaging and meeting with him.
My husband had "a friend." Then they began messaging each other into the night. Then the phone calls. Then the meetings and the kissing and the fondling. Let me tell you it was a very short trip from the first kiss to the bed! What your wife is doing is wrong, wrong, wrong. You seem to be fine watching from the sidelines to see what she will do next. Are you really fine with that? If not, then you need to tell her so. You need to set boundaries, as in NO CONTACT with this man. And then their needs to be some CONSEQENCES for her if she continues contact. Otherwise I guarantee we will be reading a letter from you shortly that says, "My wife slept with her friend." Do you really want to be writing that? If not, then please DO something besides just watch and wait.
Please John, reread what the others above have said. We've all been there and want to spare you any more pain.
Angela wrote, "You need to set boundaries, as in NO CONTACT with this man. And then their needs to be some CONSEQENCES for her if she continues contact. Otherwise I guarantee we will be reading a letter from you shortly that says, "My wife slept with her friend."
John, that is some of the best advice anyone here can give you, to end an emotional affair before it becomes physical, the NO CONTACT rule has to be the first boundary. If your wife is not willing to do that, then in her heart, the OM is more important than you, than your relationship, than your marriage, and than the future.
If that is the case, then your efforts to rebuild your relationship just became at least a hundred fold more difficult and painful.
Dave has it right on target. My H "had a friend". My antenna went up when it seemed she was all he talked about. I wasn't really jealous, even though he had proven himself untrustworthy years ago with the first (that I'm aware of ) A. I even was dumb enough to insist they go together to a work related outing because I wasn't really interested. When her husband started calling to tell my daughter her father was having an affair with his wife, I really started to get on his case, and still he insisted that it was just a jealous mentally ill husband. But when I found a love letter from her that he had saved, then it was out in the open. He promised to stay away from her, but did not keep that promise, so I divorced him.
It doesn't sound like your wife honors your feelings or your requests, and the cold hard facts may be that is the way it is. But you need to take care of yourself and assert yourself. Telling her it isn't ok isn't going to drive them closer together, if they go together, it is because that is what they have already decided to do. If she listens, great, if not, you have your answer sooner instead of later.
This is a hard time for you, I'm sorry someone else has to go through this.
I do hope things get better for you. Hopefully this wedding will give you the time alone you two need.
