Jordan..........I HAVE HUYUGE problems with what you just wrote and I am going to be totally blunt here, because honestly I think you need me to be
WHAT YOU DID WAS RAPE YOUR WIFE!!!!!
Sex that is not concentual between two parties (whether they are married or not) is called RAPE.
You have some huge issues and if I were your wife right now you would be out of the house and resting the night in jail for abuse at minimum!
Jordan I don't care how angry or upset or in pain or sad you felt there is NO JUSTIFICATION for what you have done. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Please Please tell me that your son wasn't in his room while you were doing this!!!!! OMG I can't imagine how much trauma that poor boy must be in right now.
Jordan - you NEED HELP!!!!! Your anger is getting the better of you and if you don't get help soon, somebody is going to get hurt and you are going to spend the rest of your life in jail.
What good is that......how does that solve the problem.......how does that help your children?
Jordan I am very disappointed in you, but I still care that you hurt. Let this be a lesson for you, a sign to wake up before it is too late. You are forcing your wife to hate you, you are pushing her away and you are hurting her physically and emotionally. If you don't love her and don't want a marriage at least have the decency to tell her that and let her walk away. Don't punish her and torture and hurt her because YOU are angry and can't deal with it.
Yes she messed up, but don't tell me you have never messed up because after last night I would find that hard to believe.
Jordan Please Please get some help !!!!
Kid
p.s. what you did was wrong Jordan - nobody deserves that no matter what they may have done.
You obviously aren't getting the help you need or not seeing your counsellor or honestly sharing your thoughts with them. Some counsellors are just plain bad.......can you give us some idea what is happening in your sessions and how many you have been to?
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Dec 3, 2006 2:50 PM This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Dec 3, 2006 2:47 PM
You can justify it in your mind anyway you want Jordan, but it still sounds like rape to me. She was in tears yet you still relentlessly hurt her. That isn't making love and that certainly isn't love. It is a sick game Jordan and somebody is going to end up the loser...maybe you, maybe your wife or maybe your children.
If you want her to leave so bad then go apply for a divorce. You can't make somebody stay with you (that applies to both of you). It takes two to make a marriage and only one to decide they want a divorce.
Jordan, is the counsellor you are seeing a marriage counsellor or an individual counsellor?
How would you feel if a man did that to your daughter? Would it be okay because she was too scared to say stop or no! Would you consider it rape then? Is it rape if she doesn't say no because she was drugged? Is it wrong if a father has sex with his daughter and she doesn't say no because it's daddy?
Two wrongs don't make a right Jordan.
I know the anger that comes with betrayal and I know some of the things you have shared with me. I think you need some help dealing with anger management that a marriage counsellor just can't give. This is beyond what I have ever seen in the 4 years I have been on this and another site.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Dec 3, 2006 4:25 PM
I have to agree with Kid...this is the most offensive post I've ever seen.
No real man treats any woman this way, least of all one he says he wants to stay with.
This episode was about pure rage, revenge, humiliation, and punishment, and if you can't see that, you need a lot more help than anyone here can provide, Jordan. It's one thing to have these revenge fantasies in your head, but acting them out is something else entirely.
Getting counseling doesn't mean you're fixed...you have work to do. If your counselor isn't providing guidance on appropriate and inappropriate ways of dealing with your rage, find one who will.
This was the most disgusting post I have ever seen on any message board. Jordan, you did rape your wife and you stated that your "made" her do it. That is rape and you have committed a crime. You even state that you enjoyed it.
How could you claim to love your wife? Your were lucky that you had a remorseful spouse. We aren't all that lucky. She wanted to work hard to heal the marriage, but all you have wanted to do was to harm the OM and now your wife. You need far more help than you are getting. Your wife is terrified of you and she knew that refusing to do those acts would enrage you further. She is right isn't she? She could have reported you to the authorities and have you arrested, but she is too afraid to do anything.
Where is the love you are supposed to have for your wife and family? I think you should admit yourself to some kind of facility where you can not be a danger to yourself or others.
I almost threw up while reading you post.
I have done things in my life that I was totally ashamed of. So much so, that I thought I didn't deserve to live. But I have forgiven myself, and so has God and the universe.
What you did was debase yourself and your wife. Years from now you will regret what you did, because in the long run having a pure heart is the only thing that is worth living for. And hatred will destroy your life and your relationships.
I pray for you both. Cyndee, just as Jordan didn't deserve to experience an A, you don't deserve to be treated with such disrespect.
Two people living like that might be better off getting away from each other. Sounds like you need some boundaries with your rage. Pull yourselves up individually, alone - with all your own pain and anger. Work it out by yourself and if you can't, then stay by yourself.
Sounds like you have allowed that affair to turn you into something even worse! Awful behavior. It reminds me of the film 'Human Trafficking'.
Well, Jordan, you've done it. You've hurt your wife as much as she hurt you. You may not realize that YET and Cyndee may not realize that YET because she feels so low about herself that she would allow it to happen, feeling as though she deserved it. She will, some day, look back in her own healing time and see what I'm saying is true. Buddy, by then you better have your shit together because you could loose the best (and the worst) thing that ever happened to you.
You sure have complicated things now. You've got to friggin learn how to forgive yourself and Cyndee has to learn how to trust you again. Does any of this sound familiar?
Do you know why you "got off" on what you did? It was you having TOTAL control over (her) the situation. You need some serious help, far more than we at this website can give you. And, far more than some half assed marriage counselor can give you.
People don't cry while they are having consentual sex.
You titled your post "ashamed".... I will not, I cannot feel empathy towards your actions and behaviors. Debasing a human being to feel better - is debasing oneself.
What happened to the code of conduct? What happened to the code of HUMAN conduct?
I read your post because it said "Ashamed". Ashamed would mean that you admit to doing something wrong and feel guilty for it. You dont sound "ashamed" to me... you sound pleased with what you did...you sound like a sick man who needs some help. You are lucky if your wife does not press charges and you are even luckier if she ever speaks to you again! What is wrong with you? I dont care if she cheated on you with 50 guys...you have no right to treat your wife like a whore....YOU HAVE NO RIGHT....DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
This is the most disturbing post I have read in a long time. Please...please....please seek help...for the sake of your wife, your son, and yourself. What if your son woke up? Can you imagine the trauma you may have caused him? Let alone the trauma you just caused to your wife. The sad part in all of this...as much as you felt she deserved it...she let you do it...she let you finish because she felt she deserved it. I hope you are happy...you got what you wanted...you made her feel dirty...and you got your revenge! Does that make you even? Does that make you feel like a man?
Carol~
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Dec 7, 2006 11:17 AM
How exactly was she supposed to do that Jordan, call the cops?
You said she was upset and looking for her phone after and was upset........didn't you for one second wonder who she was calling? Crisis shelter, abused women's shelter, the police.
The fact that you seem satisfied and happy about what happened scares the hell out of me!
This may have been a break through for you, but what about for her?
You repeatedly say that you "hurt" your wife and you did it on purpose. As far as I am concerned and it seems to be the consensus with everyone else, the actions that you took was RAPE! Whether she said "no" or "stop" has no bearings on this whatsoever. You admitted that you "made her finish" and that you followed her from room to room. It is obvious that she was saying "no" AND "stop" with her actions and you refused her wishes.
I have no respect for anyone who could do this to their wife! I agree with what everyone is inferring, whether they come out and say it or not. Your wife needs to get away from you and PRONTO!!!
The fact that you came here to brag about your repulsive actions are indicative of the type of person(?) you have become. The fact that you can say you enjoyed this and got some kind of sick pleasure out of this makes me want to puke.
You should be sitting your sick butt in jail. I can't imagine any judge that would not rule for your wife if he heard this story!!! Maybe if you went to prison and "Big Bubba" made you give him a bj and stuck it to you in the rear, you would realize what you did was wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!
DISGUSTING!!!!
aanisah
Today is where your book begins, the rest is still unwritten.
I was tempted not to post, as it seems everyone has stated what I'm feeling anyways.
Jordan, I now have more respect for my W's OM than I do for you. At least he just wanted to get laid, he wasn't out to intentionally hurt anyone.
Nor was your W.
Nor was your OM.
That lower than low status has been claimed by you. I pray to God that you can learn to raise yourself up, to become the REAL man that you've claimed to be. Right now, I'm just not seeing it.
Cory
www.blind-justice-self-defense.com
The Three Rules of Happiness: Friends, Freedom and an Analyzed Life - Epicurus
I have been thru hell and back and seen and heard alot of terrible things in my life but your post Fireman down was one of the most disgusting posts that I have ever read.
You need profesional help NOW and so does your wife,what you did will affect her and you for the rest of your lives.
I would like to suggest that this post be removed by the mods as it is so far beyond the realm of decency that it could cause huge damage to others coming here esp WS.
What you did as others have posted was so very very wrong and you should seek out help asap.
James
This message has been edited by James_45 on Dec 7, 2006 8:56 PM
I agree with most of the posters here. It was disgusting -- pornographic.
If the mods didn't think otherwise, I wonder if this were the work of a troll. Just the fact that he mentioned he enjoyed it, and doesn't "get it" etc..... is shocking.
I disagree with the suggestions that the moderators delete the post in question. As I stated in my post on the open board, I think in some way this was a cry for help. People coming here need to know that they can express whatever it is that they are feeling and doing that is causing them concern. If someone is afraid to tell their story for fear of shocking people, they may keep it to themselves and possibly never get the kick in the butt and advice they need to get help.
This is going to be hard but I remeber when I read about what your wife had written in her e-mails to the OM I remeber thinking, holy crap I am not sure I would ever be able to get past that. Now I read about what happened the other night and I hate to say this but I am not sure your marrage can be saved. It almost sounds like you only care that this OM was able to get your wife and that this is your piece of property and how dare he. I think you are still with your wife so that this guys does not win. I do not think you care about your wife as a person any longer. What she wrote in those e-mails would have been hard for anyone to take, I do not think I would have ever been able to get past it. I remeber you thinking about having an A yourself but did not go through with it so surely you are not really this mad about the A itself. If I am wrong and I usually am then you need to beg your wife to forgive you for what you did, but if I am right I think it might be time for you two to move on alone before this gets too far out of hand.
I really am rooting for you but I just think your feelings for her have gone.
"I still don't see it as you guys do. No biggie. I told her if she thought I raped her to call the police on me."
It's just not that easy FD. Your actions are those of an abuser and often victims do not go when they are scared of an abuser. They also don't go easily when they have young children - I didn't and I wasn't abused nearly as badly as your W. I know that may pain you to hear but I don't think anyone on this site thinks otherwise.
"I told her if I am that bad, I will leave and leave our son with her. I have begged her for weeks to leave so I would stop hurting her. I have told her she deserves better than me."
So, now you think she is better than you...but you felt good hurting her why? That doesn't seem to add up FD. It does sound as if you do need some serious help.
"I told her to call her family and run the story by them and she refuses."
As Angela said, of course she would be humiliated and she also may not want to make you look bad in case things could work out...although I'm not sure why she would even want to make your marriage work after that.
It's really hard to untangle from someone. It can be forced upon both of you depending on how things unfold.
Plus learning solo healing (with nobody wrapped around anybody's fingers) can be a major daily challenge for a very long time until you figure it out for yourself.
Sir, do you even see how abusive you are to your wife? I hope you NEVER have to wear her shoes. Quite frankly, you should feel quite disgusted with yourself and seek professional help. What you did....God, I can't believe you feel justified.
If I had two minutes with your wife, trust me, you would be looking through bars right now.
I'm going to really let it out here. I don't post here very much. I do read. Actually, I've only posted here a couple of times. It takes a very disturbing subject to draw me out to post. The problem here, what is so disturbing is that you do not see that your behavior is abusive. Period. You intimidated your wife into this situation, not the affair, but raping her. You deliberately used her emotions and what she did against her to make yourself feel better. You dehumanized her. Let's also not forget your post about running over the OM's child. Rage, abuse, homicidal.
Quite frankly, I think you are abusive, period. I don't think this is the first time you have abused your wife. Oh, I'm sure it may not have been to this extent in the past....but the affair has magnified your abusive nature.
I truly believe that the problem with your wife is that she is afraid to leave.....it's a psychological issue....almost like Stocholm Syndrome.
Sure I'm not there. However, your posts here speak volumes to me.....a survivor of abuse. Let me make this abundantly clear to you......THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. So, stop trying to justify your behavior and claiming it "caused a breakthrough". That is just BS.
Your wife is walking around on pins and needles, crushed glass, trying to make sure she doesn't do ANYTHING to cause you to react over the top again.
Your behavior makes me sick. I think other women here will agree with me that what you did demoralized every woman.....especially not accepting what you have done.
The affair happened for a reason. I think YOU have to own your part in it. No, having an affair does not in any way justify anything and no one deserves that behavior. However, your wife didn't deserve you raping her, abusing her. NOTHING she did justified your behavior.
You need individiual counseling to see exactly what you have done.
Bullshit. All it did was make you feel better while you RAPED your wife. Nice. Nice to JUSTIFY what you did. It helped absolutely NOTHING.
Further, you apologized? Big freakin' whoop. I guess that should just make up for everything. NOT!
Until you admit what you did was wrong, take responsibility for your actions, admit that you have a problem, that you need individual help and what you did was abuse, don't sit here and act like everything is OK. IT IS NOT OK. Period.
The rage you are holding within is like a powder keg. I know people feel rage in this situation. However, yours is so close to the surface, others are obviously as risk.
What you have failed to do and are failing to do is take a long look in the mirror at yourself. Sad. I'm done. Trying to reach you and make you realize what you are doing is hopeless.
And no, I never said I was without sin. However, you sure have a problem admitting your own.
Redwolf, I apologize. But, I am done. Trying to reach this man is completely pointless. I have a feeling it will take something drastic that will cause an epiphany. So, I won't be responding again. I'm angry and honestly, very concerned for those around him.
The moderators and administrators have received a few complaints about the initial post in this thread, asking that it be removed. Although we have all agreed that it IS offensive, a decision has been made to leave the post as it is.
The reason for this decision is that although it is offensive, we feel that it also can be valuable as a lesson in how far and how bad things can get during recovery. Our hope is that others will recognize these warning signs in themselves and take the steps necessary to ensure they don't go down the same path.
The primary goal of this site is to help others, and for people here to learn to help each other. Although a post may be offensive to some, we feel that as long as we are dedicated to providing a safe place for our members (within forum policy), then posts will not be deleted.
Thanks,
Cory (on behalf of the ADR moderators and administrators)
www.blind-justice-self-defense.com
The Three Rules of Happiness: Friends, Freedom and an Analyzed Life - Epicurus
I get called every name in the book and then I get singled out on a sacrcasm charge. OK, I am removing all my offensive posts for you. Have a nice day.
BS
This message has been edited by firemandown on Dec 6, 2006 6:03 PM
I think you are very wise. I know early on I got alot out of seeing how bad some people have it. I remeber thinking I had the worst wife in the world and that I was the unluckiest person on the planet. Hearing other people tell there stories and suddenly some of my problems did not seem so bad. Thanks again I think you made the right choice.
On these forums we really need to check sarcasm as it tends to escalate heated discussions into flame wars.
Name-calling doesn't work either. I have scanned the posts for direct name calling.
Please note forum policy:
Under 'General Policy and Procedure':
6) The edit feature may be used to modify or make additions to a post but not to delete the entire contents of a post. All content of the site belongs to all of its members.
for me the simplest and probably best thing for jordan to do is to leave his wife.
i also havent been able to read all the content of jordan's posts but from others have said i guess i have to say:
jordan you actions did not change the past behaviour of your wife did they, all they did was to demonise you and that is not an ok thing. as others have said, please get some counselling to talk about what you did and more importantly the why.
sadly you actions will not achieve what you think you may want, that is your wife back, if that is what you want, it will push her away further. if you dont want your wife back, then just let her go.
