No one is going to like what I am writting, so if you are just going to bitch about it, leave it alone.
20 some odd years ago, when I was in the Navy, we were in Japan. We had a few hundred yen left and went back on shore to eat a nice dinner and drink up what we had left before we sailed the next day. My friend started buying tequila shots for us. I had never had tequila and I drank many shots. I don't remember anything from the rest of the night, but I heard the stories and haven't touched tequila since.
Friday the 13th. I am in Mexico. I have been drinking soft rum drinks and having a nice time like I usually do in Mexico. I was playing water volleyball with other adults and they started bringing around shots. Since they were red in color and didn't taste like tequila, I didn't notice. This was early afternoon and I woke up around midnight and barely remember a few details. I don't remember the cops or making an ass of myself and a couple other details I will say in a minute.
From what I was told I was letting loose a verbal barrage on my 15 y/o daughter. I pulled my 17 y/o off a swim-up bar stool by her hair (this was done in a joking way according to witnesses, but being drunk I pulled harder than funny) and then Cyn grabbed me by the jaw and told me to stop. I then grabbed Cyn by the jaw and told her to never hit me again (due to my drunken state I can only guess that I thought she'd hit me when she grabbed me, she thinks my jaw was already hurt from one of the 2 times I fell on the pool deck prior to this). She then slapped me as she left the pool. I somehow got upstairs cornered her and punched her 3 times, before someone stopped me. Thankfully I was so drunk, my blows were sloppy and wild.
Sooooo, finally I sober up. I really have no remorse for hitting her. I hate that I have become what I am now. Today is the 1 year anniversary of her starting her A. I told her yesterday that I am never going to get over this and I will continue to hurt her one way or another and she really should just go.
I can blame the tequila, but I won't. These feelings of anger are there now because of what she did. I can control the physical stuff but the mental stuff is still there. I didn't drink again the rest of the week. The verbal barrage I let loose on my 15 y/o, is another betrayal by a loved one that is still hurting deeply. The alcohol afforded me the chance to loose my self control and let them both know how much they have hurt me. I wish I remembered what happened, but I don't.
We all sat down the next day and talked. Cyn was nice enough to put the A back on my shoulders again and tell me how crappy our marriage was. Yet the next day tell me how she wishes I would do things like I did before the A, in the way I looked at her and made time for her. blah blah blah. I told her it didn't do me any good the first time, you hated your marriage and had an A. So why should I do it now? Look what it got me last time.
So if you got something to help me say so. If you can talk Cyn into leaving me, that will work too.
Jordan
Children make great life jackets.
This message has been edited by firemandown on Jul 18, 2007 9:28 PM
What are your thoughts on post-affair married life + alcohol?
I did that for 4 years.
These days I'm finally feeling free, centered, and pretty good again in general more like my old self.
Alcohol will continue to rob you. It's not 'normal' and does not function in the brain as anything 'normal'. When you add it to the emotions you have (and I had), it's an absolute a disaster.
What about the sad and dangerous relationship you have with alcohol?
A friend of mine is about to get his AA 17-yr medallion. He once drove drunk and hit a baby boy in his stroller who died in front in his mother. He lives with that. But he lives sober now, and finally found a way to seek ongoing healing for himself. He now helps and supports others to get out of wretched addictions.
"I really have no remorse for hitting her. I hate that I have become what I am now."
You want us to leave it alone, yet you post it. I guess we could all wallow in anger, self pity, and hate.
Well, I am going to mix a stiff rum and coke and drink to not being physically or sexually abusive to my wife after her two affairs. I know that the anger made me verbally abusive, and emotionally abusive, but thank God I never sank lower than that.
My mother and my brother are both recovering alcoholics, until they were truly ready to accept help and ask for it they could not get help.
I think in many ways any form of healing or self improvement is much the same. You have to want it with all your heart and soul, or you will never take that first step. Until one is totally and completely willing to commit to healing/self improvement then you take a couple of steps up the ladder and fall back down.
Then its the rungs were wet, there was something slick on your boots, (like BS for example) or any of a hundred other excuses.
Until an addictive person looks in the mirror, is disgusted by what they see, and commits to healing, the cycle will repeat itself over and over.
I guess if you don't want or like comments, don't post what you have and expect silence from those that read it.
When is enough going to be enough Jordan, after somebody gets really hurt??
It is obvious she won't leave, and you don't want to be married, so maybe you should put on the big boy briefs and be the one to do it, for the sanity and safety of both of you.
I'm not even going to touch the rest, since you won't listen anyway.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 19, 2007 9:08 AM
I have a few questions for you- do you think you have control over your feelings? If not, can you see that at one time maybe Cindy had no control over her feelings while having the affair? Biochemistry is so incredibly powerful.
Think about adrenaline- you've probably seen people do things that they normally do, wouldn't do, couldn't do: pick up cars, run into a fire to save someone, jump into freezing water to save a drowning person, fall in love with the "wrong" person.
It takes incredible presence of mind and power to resist acting on feelings that can have negative outcome. At times we are weak and lose control. Do you think you have lost control?
All you have at this moment is one breath of life. Breathe deeply and let the pain out, if only just for a second. And maybe you can connect the seconds, If you were on your death bed with only an hour to live, how would you share that time with the ones you love?
I have lived with hate in my heart. I hated my father, a certain OW, and maybe even my X. But over the last year I have learned to love myself, and that has changed my entire life.
i wish you peace in your heart, Jordan. That is the only thing in life worth having.
I really don't know how to answer and not sound like I am trying to make excuses, but here goes anyhow.
I don't feel I have a drinking problem. I don't drink at home. I don't like the taste of booze. I drink socially. On the occasions that I get drunk, I am a happy drunk and haven't been in a fight while drinking since 1986.
I blame the tequila and myself. The hurt and anger are always here, I just hold it in. I do not remember much from last friday. I remember falling twice on the pool deck, I remember being in a beer drinking contest, I remember grabbing Cyn by the jaw and saying to never hit me again. I remember following her out of the pool, saying too myself, she just fucking hit me (I don't know if she did or not, I just remember that fragment). I remember falling in the grass on the way to my room. I remember being locked on a balcony and beating on the glass with my fists and a chair. I remember the cops taking the booze out of my room. I remember trying to come out of my room and the cops not letting me. That is it.
I apparently was crawling from balcony to balcony on the 4th floor trying to get back in. So I can honestly say I was out of my mind. My nephew said he was pissed because I was trying to break the glass with him on the other side and he was the one who got me away from Cyn. I asked why he didn't just lay me out? He said he almost did, I told him I wish he had. I don't drink tequila for a reason. I have been drunk a few times since the A and nothing like this has happened. I don't need alcohol to get upset and angry, it happens plenty without it. I wish I could drink and make my problems disappear, but that doesn't work either. I really don't feel I have a problem with alcohol. I feel I have a problem dealing with the aftermath of the A and tequila. Cyn drinks at home, beer will get skunky waiting for me to drink it. I have won lots of tequila on our trips to Mexico, I give them as gifts or they gather dust on the shelves here at home.
Dave, you're a better man than me, not much else to say and I am not being sarcastic.
Kid, why should I give up everything I have worked for and move myself and the kids out? So I leave her in the house with everything, then she loses it all because she can't pay the bills and I get stuck with ruined credit because she had the A and I moved out? I am tired of getting screwed over and then having to foot the bill too?
Jordan
Children make great life jackets.
This message has been edited by firemandown on Jul 19, 2007 11:30 PM
"I am a happy drunk and haven't been in a fight while drinking since 1986."
Most everyone starts out a happy drunk. Lots of fun with little consequences, and end up with trouble and big consequences. It progresses that way. Twenty + years is a long time to use.
Most everyone with the problem doesn't have a drinking problem. My X still doesn't have a drinking problem either after 40 yrs of using, beginning violence, and divorces.
If you read what you wrote beyond stating that you don't have a drinking problem, it sounds to me as if the stuff has you going.
Anyway, you asked for what people believed would be helpful suggestions for you.
You said, "Kid, why should I give up everything I have worked for and move myself and the kids out? So I leave her in the house with everything, then she loses it all because she can't pay the bills and I get stuck with ruined credit because she had the A and I moved out? I am tired of getting screwed over and then having to foot the bill too?"
There are other solutions than this, if you really want out. How about selling the house, then each of you renting apartments or condos or the like, giving each of you time apart for awhile to see if that is what you really want? It may give each of you the time and space you need to come to grips with your feelings. Seeing her all the time is a constant reminder to you of what she did. Then you react and she gets defensive. Although there is nothing unusual in this, it is not condusive to healing for either of you. Living apart may help you both put what happened in perspective so you can get on with your lives whether it be apart or together again.
Jordan, there is rarely just one solution to a problem. When you do the same thing over and over again, it is not surprising that you will get the same outcome each time. Right now you know what you are doing isn't working so try to open yourself up to other possibilities. You at least owe it to yourself and your kids to be happy again.
Haven't had a drink in a week, don't miss it, ain't having DT's.
Still getting pissed off at things she says and does. Yesterday I was doing my best to make nice... Then she says things and it turns too shit. Afterwards she lays in bed trying to hold me and take back the things she said and wonders why I just lay there.
Angela,
Trying the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different outcome, is either the definition of insanity or flipping a coin. I seem more inclined to go with the first.
It takes many people years of sobriety to understand what was really going on. A week of sobriety is hardly worth mentioning although glad to hear it because your situation sounds dangerous.
What I learned is that it's often quite a nasty stew pot when you've got an affair stirred in with alcohol and served up for your recovery.
RW.... Cyn usually begs me to go out drinking so I will get into a good mood. I usually decline, I shouldn't have to get drunk to be happy with my wife. I really think you are barking up the wrong tree here, but I feel that the tequila is something I need to stay away from and I had till last week.
55 years of life experience, observing others, and learning to look at myself, I have formed an opinion.
What we see in the mirror is never as bad as what we see in other people. The person in the mirror is the last person to recognize and treat a problem.
It doesn't matter if the problem is with alcohol, drugs, food, anger, hate, or any other physical or emotional problem. The last person to recognize there is a problem is the one that stares back at us in a mirror.
We can look in the mirror and say "I will never be like or become like (.....)and yet if we listened to anyone around us, many times we would see that we are just like (.....)and sometimes even worse than (.....).
This is not a blanket statement, and is not meant to offend anyone. I too am human, and I have reached the point of being able to look in the mirror and know that I have screwed up my life and others. Now, I look in the mirror, recognize I made a mistake, and take steps to correct the mistake.
Being a type A personality, I have had to learn in a serious way to rein in anger and verbal attacks or abuse. I used to be one of those people who would flip you off in traffic, I used to from anger, jump to conclusions.
I am a much happier and calmer person now, sure, I still get angry, but I have learned to keep the anger in a bandwidth that is socially acceptable.
Overall, this in turn has made me much more pleasant to be around. It has let me come to a point of "forgiving doesn't mean forgetting...it's remember with your mind at peace" with respect to my wife's affairs and many other issues in my life.
That's a good place to be, Dave. I smiled in recognition of "the man in the mirror" as I read your post. As a younger Type-A kind of guy I was a hotheaded driver, and at work people must have hated to see me coming. I valued the "truth" as it struck me at any particular moment far above relationships. I rationalized that "at least people know what they're getting" (which, it turned out in a lot of cases, was "hurt" or "offended").
While it takes time, it also takes a lot of work on oneself. I found that it meant I had to consciously NOT focus on all that stuff I saw in those around me, and work instead on being a better person myself.
A wise woman (my late mother-in-law) once suggested gently to me her observation that folks often are very critical of the (less than desirable) qualities of others that they most dislike in themselves. In a lot of cases, I think she's right.
I hate what I see in the mirror. I am abusive and hateful. I already have said, I am not going to try and prove I am not an alcoholic. So drop it please, help me where I need it. I give up.
"I hate what I see in the mirror. I am abusive and hateful. I already have said, I am not going to try and prove I am not an alcoholic. So drop it please, help me where I need it. I give up."
First of all I am going to be totally blunt in my reply to the contents of this post. I am not trying to pick a fight, I don't care if you respond or not, and some including you may take offense. If you are offending I apologize in advance and recommmend you read no further.
Jordan, I don't presume to be an expert at anything but messing my own personal life up. So like many others, I suppose these words will fall on deaf ears as for months people have been offering just what you are asking for. We have offered our opinions (from experience), we have offered understanding, we have listened to you. Ask yourself if you have truly listened to us.
You say you “give up,” perhaps that is part of the problem. Recovery is a life long commitment to doing just the opposite of giving up. It is a commitment to change, a lifetime commitment to change. You have to change the way you think, the way you react to stressful situations, and the way you choose to live your life.
I am past five years from my first D-day which was actually my wife’s second affair. September 9th is going to be my second D-day where I learned of the first affair in 1997. Both were work place related, both ran 6 to 8 months, both were full blown emotional and physical affairs. One was with my best male friend at the time and was a double betrayal. I am still in recovery, and as the affair is part of my wife’s and my history, part of the relationship history, I believe that we will have to recover a little more each day. It really is “forgiving without forgetting…but remembering with your mind at peace.”
Don’t get me wrong, I am not suggesting you haven’t tried, somehow though I get the impression you have “tried” for the short term but not committed to the long term. Again, this is only my impression and opinion and you are welcome to toss it aside in the trash. You are letting anger dictate your life and therefore the recovery processes you attempt. You have been sexually, physically, and emotionally abusive to Cyn and to a lesser extent your family according to you previous posts over the months. I don’t need to tell you that all of these things are HUGE RED FLAGS to anyone that reads what you post.
I guess what I am suggesting is that you need to get your anger totally under control before you have any chance to move forward with healing. Whether that healing is together or alone, getting your anger under control is paramount to moving forward. Controlling the anger is one area that I have experience in, and I couldn’t do it alone. It took individual counseling for the anger, not the affair recovery, but specifically the anger issue. Yes the affair was a key trigger for the anger, but the anger was multifaceted and complex in nature. Imagine if you can a yard stick, starting at the middle my anger went all the way to one end and my joy all the way to the other. I would see saw between the two and I could go from happiness and comfort to anger in the blink of an eye.
Now on that yardstick only 4 inches on either side of the center is socially acceptable and yet I would swing clear to the end in my response to a trigger, regardless of the nature of the trigger. This is what your posts make me think is your anger response to a trigger.
Jordon, you have admitted you have less control when you drink. Ok, you are not an alcoholic but alcohol lessens your control of your emotions and responses. You are carrying an immense amount of hate, you feel you need for revenge on Cyn and the OM. I would suspect that nothing is going to quench that thirst for revenge. You could totally destroy his life and her life and you will still feel emptiness, and you will still not have fixed your anger problem. You will end up angry that you are not satisfied.
If you want to heal yourself then absolutely get professional help from a counselor that specializes in anger. You need to swear off drinking of any kind of alcohol and I suspect you need to find an anti-depressant that works for you. Here again you need a specialist, not a family doctor.
Until you can make this commitment to yourself, and only to yourself then you will continue to spiral downwards until you seriously hurt someone an end up in jail. And you know what, until you can take these steps ….like a few other that have offered you help….I GIVE UP!!! with responding or trying to help with suggestions or sharing experience.
I am sorry that I couldn’t have hung in there longer with you…but sometimes you have to realize that what you can share or offer is useless and its time to let go….letting go is going to be the key for you and until you turn that key and walk through the door with a life long commitment to healing you are in my humble opinion forever stuck in your own anger.
You close your posts with "Children make great life jackets"...well even jokingly or in a funny way pulling a child off a stool by the hair makes a kid feel more like a "punching bag" than a "life jacket."
Like I said before, I feel like these words will fall on deaf ears…but I too give up...
I am not giving up, I meant I give up trying to prove I am not an alcoholic.
The yard stick analogy seems right on the money. It is amazing how something so off the wall and obscure thing, can trigger me.
Cyn and I went out last night, we each had 5 beers and ate. We danced and talked. Sadly, it takes some alcohol to allow me to let down my guard and talk.
I appologized for hitting her. It will never happen again.
I am still very resistant to IC. I truly feel like I did nothing wrong so why should I have to suffer through IC?
I am taking the happy pills again and they seem to be starting to work again. My mood swings are less severe.
I am still messing with the OM. I fear you are right though, no matter how bad I hurt him I will still feel empty.
I do not drink at home or around my kids. In Mexico is really the only place I do. I let the tequila get the best of me. I play a game called follow the hair with my girls (it's a joking thing between me and them). If they don't do something I tell them too right away, I grab a handfull of hair and say "follow the hair" as I lead them to do what I want. I don't yank their hair and they know to follow so their hair doesn't get pulled. The day in Mexico was just a bad day and I begged both my daughters for forgivness and we all talked and worked it out. I know first hand what it is like to be pulled around by my hair as a kid. It was always done as abuse and to this day anyone can pull my hair as hard as they want and it doesn't hurt.
I have listened to a lot of what people have said here. I used to get offended all the time. It happens much less now and I deal with it better. I really think you hit it on the head when you said I want a quick fix, well I do and I hate that I can't find one.
Because "follow the hair" crossed the line, I suggest you stop using it all together. It will only remind them of what happened in Mexico. It doesn't matter if you never physically take it too far again, emotionally they will be feeling abused by you.
Jordan and Marie---That bothered me too. Especially given the comment you made, Jordan, "I know first hand what it is like to be pulled around by my hair as a kid. It was always done as abuse...", why even go there in the first place, even if done in fun up until Mexico?
As far as why suffer through counseling when what happened wasn't your fault? Stop looking at it as a punishment, look at it as a gift you can give yourself to help you be happy again.
Yes, that's a good point Marie. They are too old for that and it could be a bad trigger.
I never looked at it like that Angela. But I also look at the expense part and that burns me up too. I am somewhat of a tightwad. I look at this as frivolous and would prefer to use the money on bills.
Jordan, do you have an EAP (employee assistance program) at work? They can recommend someone, and in our case at work, it's at a reduced rate, sort of like being in a PPO or HMO. I spent about a year in counseling and would grumble every month my statement came - but you know, I wasted money on WAY less useful things like cigarettes and shoes! It is a small price to pay really, Jordan. If it helps you get your family back and helps you regain some peace, is $100 an hour too much to pay? That's only like 3 cartons of smokes.
Monica
"I have all I've waited for and I could not ask for more"
I knew someone was going to say it, I saw it as soon as I wrote it. But it still isn't an easy expense for me to accept paying for. In my mind, it is me paying for the A yet again and it's a bitter pill to swallow.
I don't know if you remember me but I responded to a couple of your posts when you first came on the boards. I am from the UK and am 3 years past d-day. My brother is a fireman in the London Fire Brigade, he has been in for about 16 years now.
Anyway, I just wanted to respond to you about therapy.
I started going to therapy about 2 and a half years ago to try and get my head round why my wife had an affair. I resented having to pay money to go and 'fix' what was her problem and it took me about three sessions before I realised that this was actually going to be good for me!
I dealt with all of my childhood issues, the physical abuse from my step-father and the emotional controlling from my mother. I was a very angry person and it was made much worse when I had too much to drink. I am also from a service background and served for 6 years in the Royal Air Force.
What I am trying to say is I think we come from a similiar background and probably grew up with the same levels of abuse. I could get angry if soemone looked at me the wrong way in my younger days (I am 51 now) and often 'proved' how tough I was.
My wife has been frightened by my anger in the past and it has nearly led to us splitting up long before she had an affair.
We have managed to sort it out and are learning to live a new relationship where the old Keith and the old Melissa (my wife) no longer exist.
The new me is considerate, stops before getting angry and questions why the anger is there, and I am actually starting to enjoy life on my terms without needing reassurance or acknowledgement from others all the time.
My wife also went to therapy to try and understand why she had an affair. We both believe she has done this and she has worked very hard to help restore a loving relationship between us.
One of the keys for us was to buy new wedding rings, go on holiday (Cyprus) and affirm new vows to each other that really meant something.
We still have the odd day where I struggle with the devastation the affair caused but after sitting down together and talking about it and realising why things happened (on both sides) and where we are now we feel better and closer.
I think it would help you to try a couple of therapy sessions just for you. It would take you out of the pain and torture you feel all the time just for an hour each session but that could be your lifeline.
I am not going to judge you or comment on the things you have disclosed on your posts. You know how you feel about that anyway. just give the therapy a try Jordan as I KNOW it will make you feel better and get you on the road to recovery.
When I first came on these boards I read everything and people tried to help me with good advice...I just wasn't ready to listen. I hurt too much inside and wanted soemone to take that pian away. It was only when I started therapy that the pain started to subside and I could see through my own fog.
We are not there yet but we are much happier, are planning for the future and enjoying time together. In a way we have a more adult relationship now on an equal footing. Saying that though we can still have silly moments which I thought had gone for good.
Wish you well mate and hope this helps in some way.
Keith
"I am still very resistant to IC. I truly feel like I did nothing wrong so why should I have to suffer through IC?"
You have anger issues. Consider the IC a necessary place to go, just like the doctor. It really isn't about the affair at this point. Unless you get rid of the anger issue, you will never get to a point where you can actually process and digest the affair and try to rebuild your marriage.
Think of IC as a gift you are giving yourself, and your future. Think of it as a gift for your children.
If I could have went back and paid $2,000 to take away the pain and anger in an instant I would have. Well, now 5 years out and 2 years of counselling...and I can stay it worked, it wasn't instant but really what is 2 years of your life at this point. If you don't go to counselling the next 2 years could be hell. If you do, I guarantee you in 2 years you will feel a whole lot better!
Jordan - think on this a bit - I was diagnosed last August with Multiple Sclorosis. The doctor's say it was likely triggered by intense amount of stress over a prolonged period of time. Gee I can't imagine what the source of my stress over a prolonger period of time could be lol. Anyway, the sooner you get help, the sooner you will feel better and the less stress you are putting on your body. Everyday puts more a srain on your body that an already stressful job already does. Don't you want to grow old and live to see grandchildren?
Do you find yourself drinking heavily when you're tying to cope?
It's good that you do not want to become an alcoholic because repeatedly drowning out the pain that way will only lead to learning and reinforcing that one coping mechanism. Pain? Drink ethanol. Pain? Drink ethanol. Pain? Drink ethanol.
Getting 'drunk off your ass' is abusing alcohol and it really means that you swallowed a bunch of ethanol - an all purpose cellular toxin.
You could just as well say, "I swallowed an all purpose cellular toxin, and a lot of it". Sounds kind of un-wise, un-cool, and un-funny when you stop and think about it. Especially considering the fact that you have gotten violent.
Tequilla made me drunk to the point I blacked out on what was happening and had no recall of the events of those nights.
Last night I had a few drinks at a political fundraiser I was required to attend. I came home and had a buzz. I didn't wish to go out but Cyn had told my son we were going to my FD softball team game. He started crying because we were not going, so I caved and went. I didn't start drinking again until after the game and sat there with the guys and wives and got ripped. Cyn drove us home. Nights like this, I really don't think much about the A, if at all. These nights are just about hanging out and having fun with the guys.
What you're explaining then Jordan is that sometimes you find yourself getting ripped because it's fun (no affair thoughts), and other times you find yourself drunk off your ass (from tequilla perhaps) thinking about the affair?
So in recovery now there's a good fun drunk and a bad black out violent drunk.
I hope that you have given yourself a recovery vision and keep moving toward that goal. It may be that one day everything will change. Everything will have to be re-ordered for you to truly heal from the experience.
Well maybe I should just switch to drugs and booze and just ease my pain that way. Sober really sucks. My physical therapist I see 3 days a week looks just like the OM. I was watching Rescue Me tonight on TV. The main character, Tommy, has a close call and 7 kids die in the fire. Afterwards, he calls home, sure his homelife is way more messed up than mine, but at least his wife answered the phone when he called. So the triggers keep comming everyday and not a damn thing I can do about it. But I am not going to go get drunk to escape the pain. Just sit here and enjoy the ride like I always do.
I wonder if you realize that many of us "non-alcoholics" actually turn to a few more drinks after the A/A's. I had a few more than I should have too (not drunk but a few times a week I'd have a few glasses of wine to try to relax and in an attempt to alleviate the pain of his A's. My ex told me later on after my ex BF and I broke up that I shouldn't turn to alcohol because he did that after we separated and after he broke up with his GF.
I fortunately figured it out that it did nothing to help except make me forget for a little while. The whole problem with forgetting about it temporarily is that you never really deal with it and work through it to come out a happier person long-term.
I tried so many things. It was like running an experiment on myself that lasted about 6 years.
ugh.
The last 2 years have been a major improvement. No pills. No alcohol. I quit going down the sink hole all the time. In fact, I haven't seen a sink hole in a long time and they used to be everywhere.
I think I had to fill up my life so full that it filled up the sink holes too. Yep. It's pretty different now.
"It doesn't matter if the problem is with alcohol, drugs, food, anger, hate, or any other physical or emotional problem."
As long as any of us feed any physical or mental problem or issue we enable that problem or issue to grow within us. At some point that problem or issue becomes the centerpoint for our lives and thoughts and no amount of logic, understanding, and listening will help correct the issue.
I vividly remember what my own pain felt like in discovering a double betrayal affair and then less than 10 weeks later learning about another previous affair. I also remember taking the advice of others here in seeking professional help to assist me in healing MYSELF first.
At this point I feel like I am helping to enable Jordon to continue his self destructive path downwards because no amount of chat or comment has even scuffed the wall of hate and perhaps self pity that he has built around himself. (Notice I said "I" as this is only my opinion.) Any reply or suggestion made is only feeding his problem or issue as he refuses to seek professional counseling for whatever his reasons.
So, rather than assist him in his efforts, I guess all I can do is withdraw any futher comment about the situation.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone, it's only a statement of my feelings.
Dave
Current Topic - Just got back from a week in Mexico
