Have any of you folks experienced a drastic change in your own personality after dealing with infidelity? One thing about me that seems to keep me on edge is my concern what others think about me now. (2 1/2 years post d-day) I’ve never really cared what my common acquaintances thought about me in general. I always felt that if I liked myself then that was good enough, that everything else would fall into place. But I have always wanted my immediate family to be proud of me, if not proud, at least think of me as a good person. By immediate family, I mean my wife, my sons and their wives, grand children, my parents, my brother and his wife, my best friend, a handful of my wife’s family members. Compared to most individuals, this is probably not that many people. Before the affair people’s specific opinions of me mattered very little.
Now I seem to be super sensitive about what people in general think of me. I spend way too much time worrying about this. Just as examples, I worry about the people’s opinion of me in the coffee shop where I have breakfast every morning. Do these people think of me as a good person? I worry about what people here on the boards think of me and I don’t even know you all personally. We’ve never met except on my computer screen. I worry that my writing skills (or lack thereof) do not convey who I really am to you. Do you think I’m nuts or off the deep end etc.? I worry if my wife’s co-workers think I’m a good person. I worry about what our neighbors think of me. And it goes on and on.
Is this part of PTSD? Is this because of embarrassment? Is this a version of paranoia? Why am I so super sensitive about being liked? This is not me, not the me that I used to be. Can anyone else relate to this?
Whether on a conscious or unconscious level, or whether it makes sense or not, the affair by the person I was married to threw a huge self doubt bomb into the core of my being.
One way I dealt with this was by shutting down socially. Going quiet.
It had nothing to do with most of the people that I shut off. There were a few that I tossed out of my life (participants in the A), but the others didn't do anything to warrant my distance. It was the X who's actions brought about my change from a social person to a non-social person.
It was a deep damaging blow to the center, and it changed me. It rippled out from there. Well, in lieu of the latest world disaster, it was more like a tsunami.
It helps to continually work on keeping this change in better and better perspective.
Now I tend to 'wave' into more social ease again for a while, and then recede back into the quiet.
Me, too, RW I've never been a "super-social" person, but after d-day, I shut out most of my lifelong friends and some of my family for quite a while. I find that I go back and forth in fits and starts, also. Fortunately I work in a face-to-face customer service environment, so I am not completely asocial. But I have met and made friends with only a handful of people (outside of these forums) since d-day. I have lost a lot of either the desire or the skill of reaching an emotional connection.
I took an online IQ test in the past year or two (before separation) and found that my score had dropped off maybe ten or twelve points from when I was younger. I attribute that dumbing-down wholly to stress-related inability to focus/concentrate.
However, I (still) don't worry too much about what others think of me.
>>Is this part of PTSD? Is this because of embarrassment? Is this a version of paranoia? Why am I so super sensitive about being liked? This is not me, not the me that I used to be. Can anyone else relate to this?<<
I'm somewhat the same way. I wasn't exactly a social butterfly before d-day but now I've become definitely antisocial. "I don't get out much", as they say. I don't think it's about being liked as it is just feeling anxious about alot of stuff, including being around people. If a psychologist had to put a label on it, I'd bet he'd call it something like "generalized anxiety disorder" or "social anxiety disorder". My anxiety seems to be fading with time (although it comes and goes) but I doubt I will ever be as social as I was before d-day.
OH YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Big time!
January 28 2005, 7:03 AM
H2C, RW, Chris and Quinn
I totally agree with everything you said. However, I used to be a social butterfly. Matter of fact, that would have been a perfect description of me. However, I spent the better part of the last five years curled up in a little ball wondering when I would ever get my life back.
I shunned the friends I loved. Especially when one of my best friends said "it has been 6 months get over it already". NOW I can laugh at that comment. I remember sitting in the restaurant when she said it, actually looking at men ( for me Mrs. Prim and Proper that is a big NO- NO) thinkng.. which one of these men would find me attractive???
However, as I approach year five I have learned "it is not about me" as H kept repeating. The sex wasn't about me, the problem wasn't about me, the whole thing wasnt about me. Matter of fact they never even talked about me cause they didn't care about me!
Took me a LONG time to realize this, and finally I am believing it. So since THIS is the only life I get year five IS about me.
I am now spending time really trying to think of things (besides our boards) that make me happy. I spend way far too much time here, safe from the harsh judgements of my friends and the outside world.
One of my other best friends refuses to look at my H. He disgusts her. We met at a wake, she hugged me and walked away from him.
Yeah, this has changed MY life. I wonder what she really thinks of me for staying with him... never mind I know. Our friendship is now only when we meet at wakes..
Anyway, yes I wonder what everyone thinks of me the woman wearing the big red idiot letter on her forehead.
Bart, my therapist said it is situational depression coupled with anxiety disorder. Your analytical skills are right on.. that will be $100. please.
So this year I am goal focused. I am really trying to get MY life back. I am going to make serious efforts to get out in life again. I remember when I used to walk into a room and see a million people I wanted to talk to, now I just hide in a corner hoping no one sees me.
However, I am making plans to break out of the shelter of cyberland I am.... I really am...
The support we receive here as made me realize there are good people in this world I just haven't met them all yet.
Thanks for bringing this up H2C as I said I like your sensitivity and insight!
I was exactly the opposite. I've ALWAYS been a social person, and when the affair happened, I started reaching out even more... No shut downs here. Matter of fact, looking back now, I pushed myself to extremes on this.
In a way, I guess that was a good thing. One year after the affair, the CRF started up, and I'm still pushing strong on that. Two years after, I started doing the blind self defense stuff, which is also taking off.
I remember my ego took a big blow during that time, but not my self confidence. I never blamed myself wholly for my W's actions. I DID ask if there was something I did or didn't do that could have prevented the affair, but it wasn't a self bashing thing. I was trying to fix the situation.
Cory
"When trouble is solved before it forms,who calls that clever? When there is victory without battle, who talks about bravery? - The Art Of War
El wrote >>Bart, my therapist said it is situational depression coupled with anxiety disorder. Your analytical skills are right on.. that will be $100. please<<
And maybe some dysthymia thrown in for good measure?
Now could we call it even? (I'm running a little short on cash at the moment - the lawyers and therapists have most of my money and two teen-aged boys eat the rest.)
> One way I dealt with this was by shutting down socially.
I've never been very social. I tend to avoid people whenever possible. What little social interaction I did have was made even worse after D-day.
My initial reaction was that the "whole world" was against me. I just wanted to be left alone, where I could at least feel safe and cry in peace.
Over time, I started to let down my guard and interact with people. But, I quickly realized no one was here for me. My mother (only living relative) wouldn't even respond to phone calls or letters, and my wife's family acted like nothing had happened even once they knew what had gone on. In five years, there hasn't been a single "real" person who even said "I'm sorry", let alone talk about it with me. Being something of a recluse, I had no outside friends to turn to. My wife was always my friend and family, and suddenly I had no one to lean on. I suddenly felt VERY alone... Thank GOD I had you folks here to turn to!
In the past year or two, I've been noticing a change in my social behavior. I'm much more outgoing. In fact, I won't shut up. I'm always the one starting up conversations, trying to avoid that dead silence when there is nothing to talk about. I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable around me.
Of course, there's a certain amount of social interaction that isn't progressing in positive way. I still freeze up in group situations. One on one I'm fine, but I'm still real uncomfortable in groups. I also tend to feel a bit of internal bitterness for most men. I guess it's a feeling that they would all take my wife given the chance. On the other hand, I tend to flirt more with women. There's a lot more eye contact, and none of the "distancing" I used to do to avoid temptation. Bring it on! Tempt me! I suppose a part of me "wishes" something would happen. Not that it ever would.
Chris
> I work in a face-to-face customer service environment
I'm self employed and work at home. So, the only time I encounter other people is when I have to go shopping for something.
> my score had dropped off maybe ten or twelve points
> from when I was younger. I attribute that dumbing-down
Interesting... I experienced the total opposite. Since D-Day, I have found a new mental clarity. I can remember dates, facts, and figures I never could have before. I can quickly solve problems that would have left me stumped in the past. I suspect it's due to my new found need to keep an eye out. Watch everything, keep track of everything, forget nothing. I guess it's a fear that someday I'll need to connect the dots and make sense of it all again.
> don't worry too much about what others think of me.
Yep, same here... I'm me, take it or leave it...
Unfortunately, I've been noticing lately that "I" don't care what I think about "my" self much either. I've always tried to be the "good" guy, do the right things, follow the rules, etc. None of it stopped me from being destroyed and I'm starting to have a lot of regrets about the way I have lived my life.
El,
> they never even talked about me cause
> they didn't care about me!
Be thankful... My wife DID talk about me with the other man. They discussed our life, what I did for a living, our accomplishments, etc. Then they had sex. Talk about feeling violated. Sort of a "this is what you have, now experience a REAL man". It makes me feel very insignificant.
I was outgoing and a real chatterbox as a kid. I could talk with anyone about anything except maybe physics. Growing up with a divorced mom and no money; my social cirlce consisted of minorites. I spent time with African Americans and Mexicans. It was quite the contrast: little white girl with freckles and my very tall, very dark dear friend Emma Jean.
Later, my biological father came into the picture. He was on his was to becoming wealthy, and I ended up living with him. I had to learn to socialize in business and political situations. Mostly I felt I had to "shut up."
For the last fifteen years with my H, I have felt very insecure in social stiuations that have been with other wives of doctors. My H would later berate me for something I said, and would ask me prior to going to an event to just "shut up". Very uncomfortable.
But after the A I just don't give a damn anymore what anyone thinks of me. If I commit a faux pas, well, I can just say I'm sorry .
I KNOW I am a kind, loving, generous person. And that is all that matters.
I also have found that I am not as social as I once was. I seem to be very empty of ideas of things to say and feel that I am boring people. I was not like this previous to the affair and I am having a difficult time making new friends. I was amazed at how few of my friends stood by me through this . Most just did not want to be involved. I am glad I kept most of the info to myself. It really is hard and I can see that there is lasting damage to your personality after a thing like this. It is why I never posted that much also- I always felt like I had nothing to offer. It was a real confidence crusher.This is one of the hardest things for me as I always liked people and enjoyed being with them. Now I think I need to find more people like me and I do not know how to find them. Seems if someone has not been through this they say dumb things about getting past it. You never get past it you just have to keep on living. You make the best of a bad situation as the song goes. I wish maybe there was a bar or club for betrayed people. Any ideas of what to name this place???
I think I can definitely count anxiety about what other people think as one of the things I have found as more pronounced in my personality. I've always been a people-pleaser but I think for sure even more so now I worry about people judging me. For me, my self-esteem has come traditionally from external sources and when my main "external source" (ie my H) rejected me, it was huge blow to my self-esteem. Much of that has gone away and yet there are still alot of times I catch my heart skipping a beat at even a hint of displeasure from someone else at work or among my friends or whatever.
But I think the biggest personality change I have found is my complete and utter lack of trust for others. I used to trust people implicitly -- always giving people the benefit of the doubt. Now I find very little surprises me especially when I hear of someone misbehaving. I see the dark side of people alot more and perhaps more than once have I unfairly attributed negative motivations to people around me.
you wrote >>Any ideas of what to name this place???<<
Whenever I think of that place, I always think of the name "Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club". ("What would you do if I sang out of tune, would you stand up and walk out on me?")
>>I seem to be very empty of ideas of things to say and feel that I am boring people<<
You're wrong about that - I found your post very interesting, partly because it says some of the things that I have thought but haven't wanted to say.
>>I was amazed at how few of my friends stood by me through this . Most just did not want to be involved<<
That has been my experience. My 80-yr old parents have been very supportive since the time that I finally, four years after d-day, got around to telling them what had been going on. One sister seems willing to be willing to talk about it too. I have another brother and sister who have avoided me every since I told them about my ex's infidelity and alcoholism. It seems too uncomfortable for them. The friends who live nearby know something about my situation but the ones who tried to talk to me about it seemed to be most interested in giving me advice (of the forgive, forget and move on variety). I haven't tried to talk to any of others about what has really been going on.
MM wrote >>after the A I just don't give a damn anymore what anyone thinks of me<<
Interesting. I'm more anxious about being around groups of people than before but my attitude toward life has changed alot. Generally, I'm more aware of the things that are important to me and the things that aren't. I seem to have a clearer idea about my tastes - including people, music, books, photos, paintings, dogs, cats, etc. I find it interesting when I meet people who don't like the same things that I do but I feel somehow less inclined to try to minimize our differences or pretend that they don't exist.
If you know in your heart that you are a good person and that you love people, then what does it matter what people think?
If a person opens up their heart and mind to another, that is the most one can do. If people are receptive to this kindness, and are kind in return, well that is just a great experience. If I am kind and open to others, and they are a********s. I have no problem speaking up. I wasn't like this 6-7 years ago.
It's funny though, the only people that try and treat me poorly are my mother and H. In the past I just put up with it, not anymore. They seem to think I've changed. LOL
"I wish maybe there was a bar or club for betrayed people. Any ideas of what to name this place???"
Not sure where you are in either a marriage or divorce but some can do like i did:>)
Find a partner who has been through betrayal and divorce as you have. They will understand you and be able to chat about things that many others can't.
I am still married,but it really has cost me so much. Seven years later and I am still not sure of what happened to me. It all seems so senseless . I do know that I am so aware of betrayal in others and that I will not go to extremes anymore to please others. But, I am trying to figure out what is it about me that attracts betrayal. I really am a poor judge of character. Or sometimes I think I do not have enough courage to standup to others.
that most, if not all, have experienced a change in our personalities because of the infidelity struggles.
As a manager in an ever changing political arena career wise, I was used to change and most of the time I embraced it with a positive attitude. I would approach change like this; "Ok, I can't stop this change so what can I get out of it for my people, agency, state residents etc.? How can I make this work for us?" And almost every time I was able to gain something from change. I also apply that attitude to my personal life when dealing with change. Change doesn't scare me.
I have been able to identify some positive things that have developed as a result of my wife's ifidelity. I won't go into detail about those things as they are not the focus of this post. The point is I can't find anything positive about the way that this has affected my personality in regards to me worrying about what people think about me. I don't like it. I don't see this change as being good for me. So how do I get back to normal? Can I get back to normal? Does anyone ever get back to normal? If you are wondering what I'm talking about, please read my very first post as I started this thread.
"The point is I can't find anything positive about the way that this has affected my personality in regards to me worrying about what people think about me."
H2C, I think it is about acceptance. We have been betrayed by the one person who we thought liked us better than anybody. That is a huge self confidence kick in the a$$. He was the one person in life, who would always pick ME to be on his team and pick me first. Now... who likes me????
"I don't like it. " yeah.. me too. But what can we do about it? Acceptance means, it happened it is in the past. What can we do about the future???? That thought took me years, matter of fact I am still working on that concept and I am further along in recovery than you are. However, the fact that you are asking means you are light years ahead of schedule.
"I don't see this change as being good for me." Ha ha... than how can you change that into a positive. What can YOU do to make it better for you. This to me, is key. I was perfectly happy with ME before all this. Looking back, however, the BIG problem with me, was I was to damn nice. NOt anymore... the new me no longer takes care of the whole world first. Good bad, whatever this is me now. It now IS about me.
So how do I get back to normal? Can I get back to normal? Does anyone ever get back to normal? " Normal.. I don't think so. I really don't. I used to scream I want my life back. Now, I simply ACCEPT that this is my life now.. what do I need to make it better NOW. Each day I try make that TRY to do some serious thinking about what will make ME happy. Lately it has been a LOT of shopping. That is my new goal... what will make me feel good today. I no longer scream I want my life back, that is over, i accept it. However, what will make me happy is something I never thought about before.
I purposely didn't look at the other responses. Ok...I took a peek at El's.
I lost myself somewhere along the line after dday. We had become this "thing". Not two people committed to each other but two people "joined" together...like Siamese twins. After dday I couldn't even order a meal because I honestly didn't know what I liked to eat. I remember people asking me what "I liked". Hell if I knew, it had always been "we"...what "we" liked. I didn't know what "I liked".
To me to scariest thing throughtout all of this was that "lost" feeling, needing approval, just tell me I'm a good guy. Well I wasn't a good guy, I wasn't anything, just an empty shell. I was nothing more than one of those "Night of the Living Dead " creatures. Shit, at least they ate.
I wished I could give you the magic potion so to speak. Maybe it was just realizing I wasn't gonna die from this, cause I sure wanted too at the time. Maybe it was asking myself what I really was looking for in other people's approval. It took time H2C..time to figure out who I was seperate from the marriage. So its not only time but what you do in that time.
Keep your goals "attainable"....small steps. Looking at the "big picture" can be overwhelming.
Spend time with YOU. What gives you a smile? Like I said H2C, start small. The things that make you smile however fleeting further down the line might just make you happy. Sometimes its just real basic..after you discover YOU you will know you are a good guy and other people can either except who you are, or they won't. If they do, lucky them. If they don't, their loss. So what. Time to stop wondering what everyone else feels about you and start concentrating on what you feel about you.
Coming full circle now. I said I lost myself. Well I ended up finding myself...maybe it was a different me, maybe it was the real me. Who cares? He is a great guy....he just can't speeelll real good
Hey tex that may in part explain this addiction to bacon double cheeseburgers you got! That must have been the first food you stumbled into when you found the "real" you. You really should try some of those other food groups like "veggies" LOL AND NO ketchup isn't a vegetable LMAO
Listen to Tex, the man comes out with some brilliant things sometimes hehehehe
For you its a bit different in that your in your marriage still and lost. Concept is still the same, find the YOU and you may find that you no longer care about what anybody thinks. It has been a bit of a stuggle for me to get there, but I think I am peeking my head over that part of the mountain. All i see when I look over the other side is this Texan with the biggest shit eatin grin, chowing on a cheeseburger and putting "dirty" tennis hoses in the wash with his ex's undies LMAO
I know you are brilliant....how??? Tex and I spent some time on line... just chatting away, redoing the world ....
I am glad to see you are posting again... thank you for sharing, my friend!! cause now, ... anyway ... you know the T-man got your six... the T-man adopted an sailor LOL LOL ;-)but that's a secret brothers in arms and all that...
First off, I'm the WRONG person to ask about being normal, as I have no experience being that way, and don't intend to start being normal now...
My theory, and it may be wrong, is this. Before D-Day, the character traits we had tended to cover up other traits that laid beneth the surface. After D-Day, the most emotionally shocking thing that could happen to us, our worlds changed, and I believe that some of those underlying traits came to the forefront, possibly as another of our pysche's many self defense mechanisms that kicked in to help us deal with the trauma.
How to get back? I don't know. Maybe in your situation, it's a case of constantly reminding yourself that you could give a shiite what other people think. Don't remember the movie, but I remember this line: "Sometimes you gotta say 'F**k it'".
And Kid, ketchup may not be a vegetable, but chocolate IS!!
Cory
"When trouble is solved before it forms,who calls that clever? When there is victory without battle, who talks about bravery? - The Art Of War
Thank you all for bringing me back around. I think this from Tex's post sums it up "just tell me I'm a good guy". I know in my heart that I am. I was before the affair and I still am. But does anyone else see it? That is the disturbing question that haunts me. And it even goes deeper. If they tell me that I'm a good guy, can I allow myself to believe them? Can I trust their judgement? Are they telling me the truth? Boy this stuff really flucks up your psychie, don't it?
One other thing, I do try to turn inward and do things that make me happy. Then I feel guilty for being or thinking so selfishly. I actually said something like that to my wife a couple of days ago "that it's time for me to be a little selfish" and she got this hurt look on her face. She didn't respond verbally, she just looked hurt by it.
And Tex, even if your spellin aint parfect, we are from the same part of the country so I can understand you. BTW, my grandfather (Texan) could say "sheeitt" in such a manner of intensity that it would give you an instant mental image. Texans really know their sheeitt and the scarey part is that ------ we are proud of it. LOL
This message has been edited by hurt2core on Feb 2, 2005 7:58 AM
For the last fifteen years with my H, I have felt very insecure in social stiuations that have been with other wives of doctors. My H would later berate me for something I said, and would ask me prior to going to an event to just "shut up". Very uncomfortable.
Were our ex's separated at birth? If I had a dollar for every time something like this happened before or after an "important" event, I could pay off the divorce lawyer!
With the help of a very good IC, I realized that sometimes I may have made my husband look "bad" in his own inflated opinion of himself because I have sounded smarter, more insightful or generally aware of someone other than himself. Typical narcissist - "I have to look good! I'm the best!! I'm the smartest". GAK!!!! Don't even get me started on the passive-agressive "don't do anything wrong and I won't get mad" BS he used to pull. And I put up with this for HOW LONG????
I know that in the beginning, right after d-day and right after I left the marriage, my self-esteem was non-existent. But, now, two years later, it is slowly coming back to health. I now worry about what I say and do for the right reasons - not hurting others, being help, polite and courteous, contributing to the human race - rather than for the wrong ones - pleasing someone who could not be pleased.
"I now worry about what I say and do for the right reasons - not hurting others, being help, polite and courteous, contributing to the human race - rather than for the wrong ones - pleasing someone who could not be pleased."
Misha
You just hit on something that I've been thinking lately. Now that I've been dating a great guy, I notice a big change in ME. He makes me want to be a better person in nearly every way. I mean I want to be more moral, more honest, better parent, better at school, etc. I don't mean that I wasn't those things before but what I get from him that I NEVER got from my ex was encouragement in nearly everything I do. It is amazing what it is doing for me. He makes me want to excel and do far better. He makes me feel really good about myself.
Charlie :>)
ps so your dating now? I just read your New Years post - ah, wasn't that yours or was it Monica? I have been pouring too much of this stupid Calc class into my brain prepping for a test tomorrow and I've lost it :>)
This message has been edited by hurt288 on Feb 2, 2005 9:42 PM
You know, that was a big change that Karen went through after D-Day. One of her reasons for having an affair was that she was one of those people who always needed validation, as her self esteem was at a subterranian level. I of course didn't know this and didn't give her the validation in the she required. Example: I'm not one to verbally say, "I love you", but I showed my love in many other ways, not as romantic as Anthony, but hey, I'm a rookie.. Anyways, because I didn't say it that often, and she failed to recognize the other signals I put out, she thought I didn't love her at all. Talk about miscommunication!
At her work, she started as a temp worker. After 6 months as a temp, they hired her full time. She worked her way up to Lead Person of a small area. Without the work we put in after the affair, where she began to realize that she IS a worthwhile person, that she DOES have brains and talent, and should look for challenges, she would probably still be a Lead Person today. Instead, she's now the head of QC Inspection and the ISO 9001 Coordinator for her plant. Before the affair, she NEVER would have thought she could handle the job she has now. She's come a very long way, and even though I haven't said it very often to her, she KNOWS how proud I am of her..
Cory
"When trouble is solved before it forms,who calls that clever? When there is victory without battle, who talks about bravery? - The Art Of War
>>>>>One of her reasons for having an affair was that she was one of those people who always needed validation, as her self esteem was at a subterranian level. I of course didn't know this and didn't give her the validation in the she required. Example: I'm not one to verbally say, "I love you",<<<<<
BUT------I did say "I love you" and often. I also showed my wife in many ways, I designed and built many pieces of furniture especially for her, never forgot a special date. NM's self esteem was so low that she didn't think that she was worthy of being loved therefore when I said it, she couldn't believe me. This lack of self worth came from childhood mental and physical abuse. There were no male figures in her life that showed her what a good man's behavior was supposed to look like. We were married over 30 years before (thru intense counseling) she got to see the real me. How sad is that?
Have you asked NM why she appeared hurt when you stated you need some "me time"? Are you even sure she was hurt? Maybe she was scared. Maybe to her "me time" means you wanna leave or you might discover some brand new life.
Maybe the word "selfish" is the wrong word to use? Maybe her defination of the word is different than yours and brings up all these fears and insecurities what you might do during "me time"?
Maybe...maybe ...maybe...
Just my rambling thoughts buddy.
Tex
Edited to add one last maybe: If you haven't asked her what that look meant yet..MAYBE you should
No typos this time folks...
This message has been edited by TexMac2 on Feb 3, 2005 1:26 PM
Not only am I dating, I'm engaged to the nicest man I've ever met in person (that way the men here won't get all bent out of shape).
And now, back to our regularly scheduled thread:
Like you, I think this relationship has made me a better person. I can communicate much better with my fiance, though I have known him for a considerably shorter time than my ex. In fact, last night we had a disagreement, but we could talk about it without getting overly hostile. We resolved the issue like, gee, mature adults! I got so used to not saying things to ex because they triggered a fight, or worse, sulking and recriminations. Pretty soon, ex and I said almost nothing to each other. Not a good way to live.
the T-man adopted an sailor LOL LOL ;-)but that's a secret