Hi Irene. I've read a couple of your posts. I've been where you're walking -- I was married to a porn/sex/work addict for 9 years, "officially." For most of the marriage, however, he was just Husband in Name Only.
I was doing some browsing the other day and came across the letter below. (Taken from http://www.probe.org/content/view/510/47/ .) It startled me out because for a bit as I was reading, I actually thought this was a letter that I had written to one of the ministries that I had reached out for help when I was in misery. I hope this post will be a comfort to you as you realize that you are far from alone in this kind of experience. Also, BTW, I am divorced now. My former H is still deep in his addiction, and has also recently contracted an STD. I am much happier without him. God continues to prove his faithfulness to me, even me, a skeptic...... Here's what I wanted to share:
One of our Probe board members, Henry Rogers, has written a wonderful book on this called The Silent War. Having researched this difficult topic thoroughly, he says the first thing wives need to know is that IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.
In fact, in a chapter called "The Wounded Wife," he reprints "Emily's Story":
"I write this out of love. Love for the porn addict, love for his wife, and most of all for the children. I pray this chapter is used for God's glory and honor, that it might somehow prevent families from being destroyed.
"I remember listening to a panel of women James Dobson had on his radio program. They talked about being married for over 20 years and discovering their husbands were involved in pornography. It seemed so unfathomable to me that someone could be deceived for so long. I remember thinking how stupid those women were. Little did I realize I would be one of those women less than a month later.
"It was like a birth process. Pain, agony, sweat, tears, hours of intense hurt, and finally truth. My husband is a porn addict. I heard it. I reacted. For two weeks I was numb. Numb to after 20+ years knowing something was wrong, but not knowing what. A relief to finally know the truth. A relief to now live in reality — in light and truth rather than the unreality of darkness and deception. My husband would never tell me the secrets of his past before our marriage. I always thought if I loved him enough some day he would tell me. If I loved him enough. . . .
"We always had a difficult marriage. My husband was always withdrawn and quiet. I thought I could help him. I was outgoing, attractive, and spontaneous. In our marriage I could never do anything good enough. I was constantly criticized and put down. I thought it was me so I started a self-improvement program, more counseling, more semi nars. I learned more was never enough. My world stopped, knowing something had died in me.
"My husband always seemed to be "tuned out" — in another world. He worked long hours and often fell into bed at 2 a.m. I missed him. I begged him to come home. I raised the kids as he pursued his career. I told myself I needed to help him. I poured my heart and soul into his endeavor — supporting and encouraging. There were still problems. When he was home he would go into his office and read his books, newspapers, and reports, and again I would cry myself to sleep. I had others confront him. I gave this man every chance to tell me about his pornography addiction. Lies weave other lies. Secrets kill. Comparisons kill. I feel every time he looked at an image and masturbated he took away a part of me that God intended to be mine. I remember seeing him masturbate and he was in his own world, set on his own pleasure, stimulated and excited by images of women he didn't know. It was a feeling of betrayal and heart-wrenching emptiness that a woman feels when she learns that her husband is living a lie.
"Pornography tears at the very thread of a woman and her femininity. My heart was ripped and uprooted — thrown somewhere into a desert with no place to find refuge. It's as if I wasn't enough. Not sexy enough. Not beautiful enough. Not thin enough. Not exciting enough. Women get significance from their relationships with their husbands and when he turns to another for satisfaction it cuts her deeply at the core.
"I started buying sexy nighties, acting sexier, and suddenly I realized I was bowing down to an idol. It hurt that he chose not to tell me ... to not allow me to come alongside him as his helper. To this day he refuses to see the pain that he caused. It amazes me as a wife how we are involved in every other area of a man's life — his profit margin, his ability to manage, everything — but when it comes to pornography, it's hidden in deception. A man's way seems right to a man. Porn addiction is very selfish. It takes and takes and doesn't give back. It's all for the user's pleasure.
"Another lie is that porn does not hurt anyone. Such a web of deception. 'And they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality, for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness' (Eph. 4:19). There are consequences and the stakes get higher. It takes one lie to cover another. It saddens me how men can compartmentalize this sin. He has the little wife over here with precious children and this nasty sin over here for his private time, justifying it because he still loves his wife and children. You can't walk simultaneously in the darkness and the light.
"I'm a wife. I'm a wife of a porn addict. I'm relieved to know what it is, though I always knew something was wrong. Tears. Pain. Disgust. Betrayal. To face the death of a husband would be better than this. A widow has the support of the church. A porn addict leaves shame and divorce. It would be easier if he were dead. We wouldn't have to face the public humiliation and shame.
"Today is a new day. It's early morning and I must get breakfast for my children. I take each day as it comes now. Just for today. My husband still chooses his sin and refuses to take responsibility for it. I have to let him go and let the Lord deal with him. I can no longer be his excuse, his enabler. It's a new day and I'm moving on and my Deliverer is by my side. He is faithful. He will never leave me nor forsake me. He will never break His promise. To a woman who has been betrayed, this is my comfort. Hear my cry."
The Lord bless you as you seek Him on this. Again, I am so sorry.
Sue Bohlin Probe Ministries
Irene, if you'd ever like to talk via phone or email, just send me a note.
This is a subject that many people feel very uncomfortable about, its a very private thing for many people but you have brought up some very important and interesting things.
I don’t think many men out there even realize what this type of activity does to a relationship. When someone gets sexually satisfied without his or her partner they not only leave their partner out of an important part of the relationship but they also focus their attention on someone other than their partner.
For me, being married for thirty years, my image of a beautiful woman has become my wife. When I see her I do not compare her to some other naked body. (She seems to however) I have gotten so sick of TV with all the sex crap (say nothing about our country’s current course) that pretty much I have turned it off. The amount of hours I have watched TV in the last two years I could count on one hand. Anyone can turn it off, turn the channel, or choose not to masturbate, it’s a choice we as human thinking beings can do.
Men who look at other women and comment on them to their buddies etc. are doing what this society deems expectable. We don’t have to fixate on anything. We are bombarded with sex in our society and that does not help marriages but we can all turn it off if we really want to.
Masturbation is something we have all done when we were adolescents. It can be very hurtful to a marriage and I think there are a lot of marriages out there that are suffering because one of the people in the relationship is not focused on their partner and is getting satisfied through masturbation. I don’t think a lot of men even look at it as a problem, but of course it is if you think about it.
Now lets hear from the other side, can a marriage suffer because of a woman doing the same thing? Do you think it is as common as it is with men?
Isn't it interesting that porn use and the notion of porn addiction are such very private things, and yet we are bombarded by sex-soaked "entertainment" all the time?
Porn addiction is not as prevalent among women, from what I've read and have seen in the world. (No, I don't have any stats to quote. I've just done a lot of reading. Feel free to post your own stats, anybody.)
Porn addiction in closely intertwined with the fear of intimacy and conflict-avoidance issues. With my former H, it was also an outlet for his anger. (Think of all the mean and "nasty" talk that goes along with porn...) I spent our entire engagement and marriage trying to figure out what he was angry about and trying to "fix" it before I realized the enormity of the issues involved and how powerless I was to fix him -- or to fix anybody except myself (even there I have problems!)
<<When someone gets sexually satisfied without his or her partner they not only leave their partner out of an important part of the relationship but they also focus their attention on someone other than their partner.>> I think this is what Jesus was getting at in Matt. 5:27. I remember I caused a big ruckus on another board by mentioning that quote: "But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery in his heart." (Remember, Jimmy Carter raised a big ruckus about it too.) Jesus said a similar thing about hate and murder.
It's what's in the heart that matters, which is why spouses get that "gut feeling" that something isn't right before concrete evidence of an affair (physical or emotional) manifests. If you grew up having your own experiences and emotions discounted and minimized by others, as I did, you learn not to listen to those gut feelings -- perhaps you can barely make out those feelings at all. That's what happened to me. Which is why I put up with so much pain and it took me so long to disentangle myself from the my former husband.
I agree with both of you 100%. I also quoted that same verse, a man who lusts after a woman has already commited adultary in his heart. I believe that! I am no prude, maybe I am old-fashioned or maybe I just have morals, but an affair starts in the mind before it starts physically. So porn, masturbation, lust, infidelity (emotional or physical) all amounts to the same thing....it all contributes to focusing your attention and energy on someone else other than your partner and that always takes away from the marriage What you are taking away from your spouse by doing these things is vital to a healthy relationship. Many people do not realize that, and those who do certainly dont want to admit it and give up their selfish pleasures. Because that's what it is...SELFISHNESS.
That reminds me of something that a lady said to me at my Chiropracter's office the other day: The receptionist was putting out new mags and was telling me that she like those tabloid mags and showed me the cover of one with Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. It was about their break up and possible divorce. I aksed the receptionship if she knew why they broke up because I did not read a lot of tabloids? The lady sitting across from me blurted out "selfishness". She went on to say that she is a marriage counselor and "you can be assured that it is selfishness, I dont even have to read the article or know them". She said "All couples that divorce end the marriage because one or both are selfish. Love and commitment are about selflessness, infidelity and divorce are the opposite of that which is selfishness. Couples who listen to each other, care about each other, and compromise are not selfish. And that is what it takes to make marriage work." I just sat there thinking this lady is so right! Maybe I want her as my counsleor. I was so tempted to ask her for her card. Maybe I should have. In fact it is her comments that prompted me to post "Lust Vs. Love"...selfishness and selflessness.
You asked if women have a problem with porn addiction like men? Personally it doesnt do a thing for me. I dont know very many women (or at least none of my friends) who say they like it or like looking at it. Most women I know are offended by it. Some tell me they go along with it or will watch/view it with their partner because their partner wants to. And some feel that it is just a part of their sex livesand even healthy for it when used in moderation, but not if it's an addiction, even if they dont like it. I have a friend who feels that she has to say it's ok because she is afraid that if she denied her H from viewing it sometimes he would cheat on her. Her approval is out of fear, which I think is very sad, but probably very common. And it does cause her to have low self esteem. As women we know men are visual creatures and that is what really scares us and why we often feel we are not young enough or beautiful enough and that we are constantly being compared to other women. Tv, movies, magazines and society itslef plays right into that, as Mike pointed out. It really scares me about the messages we are sending to our young people. If we are dysfunctional because of it, and it is only getting worse, what hope do they have? I wonder. No matter what I tell my daughter she will feel this way, I know I did. And my son, well, he is only going to view women as a pleasure toy, as an object and not a human being. Maybe we should all move to Siberia and solve that problem, LOL. But seriously, there is a crude sexual revolution going on right now...the way girls dress, the inhumane way women are portrayed in music videos and even on reality TV...its like every woman is a slut, she should wants sex and agressively persure it. What are our kids suppose to think? They are exposed to this stuff 24/7, even at school and there is not much we can do about it because society has accepted it and has promoted it. All we can do as parents is to teach them morals and to tell them right from wrong throughout their learning years, and beyond. In the end it is up to them to do the right thing, the moral thing, and to have respect for themselves and others. It is hard to have hope for our kids in the future when the adults in their lives made such poor choices themselves by cheating. That's a great example isnt it?!! UGH!!!
>>Porn addiction is not as prevalent among women, from what I've read and have seen in the world. (No, I don't have any stats to quote. I've just done a lot of reading. Feel free to post your own stats, anybody.)<<
How many "romance novels" are sold every year? Women just use pornography in a different form than men.
I was waiting for that to be added, Chris. Yes, I suppose those books could cause a problem in a marriage and are in some instances quite pornographic. And of course there are female sex/porn addicts. This particular addiction just isn't as prevalent with women.
Jean
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Dec 17, 2005 6:41 PM
I have never read a romance novel in my life! So I have no clue, lol. I think women who read them are looking for the romance that leads up to the sex, not the sex itself. Plus there are no graphic nudie pictures in them, right?
My point here is that any fantasy that intrudes into the emotional/physical space reserved for spouses is a problem. Picture porn is the male version; romance novels are the womens' version. They're both fantasy images.
Chris.
This message has been edited by chris924 on Dec 18, 2005 7:28 PM
Chris, all I did is post something for Irene and women here who have been hurt by their husband's (or SO's) use of or addiction to porn. I didn't post anything that excuses what women may do to hurt their husbands or significant others.
<<Woman reads graphic romance novel, that's okay.>> Is it? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't really care for them, personally.
<<IMO, this is the work of the "gender feminists" who have little or no use for men generally.>> What are "gender feminists" and what particularly do you see as their "work"? And how does this tie into porn or sex addiction?
In my opinion women & men view things differently. I subscribe to Playgirl but I don't oggle over the guys. Sometimes I don't even take the wrapper off & look at it. It's not a big deal to me.When I do look at the magazine I don't feel it's in a "dirty" way. I usually think "nice hair", nice body,etc. Guys seem to get really turned on & addicted to stuff like pictures of naked women. That's just my take on things & of course you can't generalize about one gender or another. When I see a cute guy on the street I don't think " I wannna F**K him", I just think "nice hair", etc.
I know we've spoken about this several times before but most of your words could have been written about me and my experience with my ex.
Mike
"The amount of hours I have watched TV in the last two years I could count on one hand. Anyone can turn it off, turn the channel, or choose not to masturbate, it’s a choice we as human thinking beings can do."
I too, can count the number of times on two hands that I've watched TV. Now if I could just get my kids to do that it would be great Guess I watch more Sponge Bob than anything else. LOL
It is nice to hear from a man who understands the impact that this can have. My ex was addicted to porn for years, likely ever since I had known him, yet he hid it better in the first 6 or so years we didn't have children. Anyway, I noticed several transformations in him and the effect it had on him. Even though I was in pretty good shape all those years minus a few months when I gave birth to my children, my ex would tell me every little part of my body that wasn't quite perfect. I believe since I was in fairly good shape that his looking at these perfect "touched up" women in magazines distorted his view of what a normal woman should look like. At one point I was a runner doing lots of races and my ex needed to tell me that my stomach could use some work although it was pretty darned good. He would also talk about any bad things I ate regardless of the fact that he ate worse than I did. This is a sore spot to me since I always eaten tons of fruit and he decided to start braging about how much fruit he ate during the time he was having his A. I found out later that she ate lots of fruit and was encouraging him. He also kept telling me he wanted to buy me a situp bench to use when he was messing around with OW.
Another thing that affected my ex from the porn was that he wanted me to start doing things in bed that I felt degraded me. I can't tell you how happy I am to be out of that relationship. He had me believing at the time that the things he wanted were what every man wanted. It's a bunch of Bulls*** but I didn't know that until I got out. The weirdest part of it all is that he said I was better looking than his OW at the time????
Regardless of what anyone looks like, however, it's cruel for a spouse to make comparisons of their (supposedly) beloved's body with another's. And to be compared to a fantasy is a no-win situation, too.
Jean, I edited out some things that you quoted to keep my point germane to the thread...which is, women aren't the only people hurt by "porn addicts" or compared unfavorably to fantasy images.
<<My point here is that any fantasy that intrudes into the emotional/physical space reserved for spouses is a problem. Picture porn is the male version; romance novels are the womens' version. They're both fantasy images.>>
Yes, there are all types of pornography. The "-graphy" part of the word comes from Greek (and back further from Indo-European roots) which means "to write." The American Heritage Dictionary (Dictionary.com) defines porngraphy as "sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal."
It seems to me that this is a hot button for you -- the need to point out that women can be just as bad, sinful, degenerate, or whatever you want to call it. Well, of course they can. My original post here, however, was for wives/women who have been hurt by husbands/SO's who are porn addicts. I was addressing this issue from my own experience and study of the issue. I had hoped it would be helpful to Irene and others who had experienced the deep pain and trauma that this kind of addiction causes.
<< When I see a cute guy on the street I don't think " I wannna F**K him", I just think "nice hair", etc.>>
Barb, this made me laugh because I just said something similar to my H the other day. He just looed at me like I was nuts. But is so true. I can see a guy walking down the street and say to myself (without oggling) "what a nice looking man". But that is as far as the thought goes. It never turns into "I want to jump his bones".
Glad I made you laugh Carol! I do have to admit that since I found out about the A I have had a fantasy about being with this one guy that I use to talk to at the gas station. We got along well, but before the A I would have not wanted to "jump his bones". I have to say that since the A he was my fantasy for awhile. I have morals & would never do anything. I even told H about it. So, now I don't go by his work. Better to avoid temptation!Why couldn't our H's have had morals & enough self-control to avoid their temptations? I guess because they didn't want to.
<<Better to avoid temptation!Why couldn't our H's have had morals & enough self-control to avoid their temptations? I guess because they didn't want to...
That's the exact same question I have asked myself over and over, and I have come to the same conclusion....they didnt want to. They made the choice to cheat, no one forced them. <sigh>
Take care,
Carol~
I'm getting in on this kind of late, and should probably keep my mouth shut, but...
I personally don't have a problem with pornography. Like anything else in life, it can be taken to extremes. Heck, a person can be addicted to food, but no one would suggest they stop eating. If porn becomes a substitute for reality, or starts to change a persons view of what a real healthy sex life is, then obviously there is a problem.
I often hear that pornography gives men an unreal view of women. From my perspective, a person enjoys TV, Movies, and other images that reflect the interests they already have. For instance, I don't care for violence, so I don't really enjoy violent movies or TV shows. But I've seen my share of violent shows and have not turned violent because of them... In the same manner, I don't view all women as sex sluts, to be degraded or demoralized because I've seen pornographic images like that. And to be honest, I don't enjoy that type of erotic imagery anyway. I much prefer more realistic or "romantic" images.
I like to think my wife and I have a healthy sex life. We occasionally watch an erotic movie together, sometimes at my request, sometimes at hers. There are times we want to make love together, but our minds are filled with the burdens of our normal life. A little visual stimulation helps us get in the mood so we can reconnect.
I also have no problem with masturbation. I'm not always in the mood to provide for my wife, and she's not always in the mood to provide for me. And, we have different sex drives. Sometimes I want more than she does, sometimes it's the other way around. I would much rather have my wife please herself than run off to someone else, and she feels the same for me. In addition, masturbating in front of our partner can be stimulating for each of us, or it can be a way we can receive pleasure when we're both too tired for anything else. And, there are those times when she is out of town or something, and we simply can't be together. But again, it's when masturbation is made the priority that it becomes a problem.
As you might expect by now, I also enjoy looking at other women. Why shouldn't I enjoy the sight of a beautiful woman? My wife and I talk openly about it, and she encourages me to look and enjoy. I certainly don't think any less of my wife because I see a woman who is thinner or sexier in some way. I enjoy the view, but I LOVE my wife. She is still the most beautiful woman in the world to me, regardless of how she compares to other women. She is welcome to enjoy looking at other men in the same way. I don't have a problem with that. As my wife often says "we're married, not blind". It's when things go beyond looking that there is a problem.
God created us to be sexual beings. Sex could have been a mundane activity like eating or using the bathroom. But God chose to make it pleasurable. As long as pornography, masturbation, or looking at other's is done with the context of a marriage, I don't see a problem with it. It's when your partner goes outside the marriage that there is a problem...
Thank you sooo much for your words. I am also the wife of a porn addict, actually the wife of a sex addict. Because in addition to the pornography there is the chat room the cheating and who knows what else. I am trying very hard to make sense out of this, but I can’t. All I can do for now is to wait for what the Lord has planed for me. Until then I will continue wondering why. I will look into the website as soon as possible. Thanks again.
Irene
Hugs to you Irene. God has a great recycling program. We can take any junky thing in our lives to God, whether it's something we did or something done to us -- and He can make something good out of it. I have learned a lot along this journey; I'm still learning. Feel free to email me at if you like.
Jean
This message has been edited by N54nick on Jun 2, 2009 1:04 PM
I do believe that God can do wonderful things BUT I don't think you should stay in a bad situation because you're waiting for God to fix things or change the other person.Sometimes you're meant to end the relationship & move on.That might be the plan!
<<I do believe that God can do wonderful things BUT I don't think you should stay in a bad situation because you're waiting for God to fix things or change the other person.>>
Why the big but?
Some things take time. Some things don't. It's an individual decision.
Twice in our marriage my husband has known women who appeared in Playboy magazine. About 10 years ago, a woman he had worked with sent him an email and said she was going to be in Playboy. I had met her several times and was very surprised because she didn’t strike me as the Playboy model type. She sent him an autographed copy of the issue. Of course I checked her out. I barely recognized her. She looked beautiful but not at all like the woman I had known. I laughed and said I wanted her photographer. About 3 years ago, Playboy did a “Girls of the Big Twelve” shoot and came to the campus where I work. I knew several girls who were going to “audition.” They had to get naked in front of strange men but wouldn’t get paid unless they were featured. Even then it wouldn’t be much money – maybe enough to buy their books the next semester. I felt it was pretty exploitive of these young women who really believed it might change their lives in a positive way. I tried to keep my opinions to myself but I’m sure I came off like a mother hen at times. None of the women I knew made the final cut. However, a woman my husband knew did. When the issue came out he downplayed it and said he had no interest in it. Then I found it hidden in our garage. I felt pretty betrayed but maybe I’m just overly sensitive since d-day. I never said anything to him about finding the magazine – I just got rid of it. This wasn’t some fantasy – this was a real flesh and blood woman he saw everyday and I didn’t like the idea of him coming home and being able to ogle her in all her Brazilian-waxed glory.
Why the big "but"? Because in my opinion, some people will stay in a bad situation because of religious reasons & yet nothing changes & it seems in my opinion to be a waste if that happens.Some people will let their spouse even physically abuse them & still stay in the relationship because of religious reasons. It's just my opinion but that type of thing seems like a waste of people's lives. Why be miserable in the name of god? That's just me though. Everyone has their own choice to make. I just don't base my decisions on waiting for God to fix my H. H made the mistake & H has the brains & the ability to fix it. It's a matter of being honest & not being involved with any other woman. Simple enough & doesn't require an act of god.Anyway, wasn't trying to upset anyone. Just wanted to explain what I meant by the "but"!
I mentioned God and what He can do because Irene mentioned the Lord. My stance would be more like this:
"I do believe that God can do wonderful things AND [often] I don't think you should stay in a bad situation because you're waiting for God to fix things or change the other person."
Making timely decisions and God doing wonderful things are certainly not exclusive.
I liked your post! I don't see anything wrong with masturbation either. My husband likes to watch me & I like to watch him. Some people get so hung up on sex. I think that it can be good in a marriage to have variety. I have a vibrator too. H bought it for me a few yrs. ago. Sex between a H & wife should be fun! My H & I never get bored!I do get jealous easily though & don't like him looking at other women.That's just the way I am. Anyway, I like the fact that you spoke up & gave your views.
My wife and I now make love every night and we have sex sometimes too. That is what marriage is about.
Two people loving each other. If you want to fool around with porn and other stuff together I guess thats up to you, but I think anything that draws your focus away from your marriage to someone or something else is wrong.
I'm glad... I hope I didn't come off as some kind of sexual deviant, because that's not who I am. And I certainly don't mean to offend those here who have been hurt by porn or sex addictions. Obviously, these are very painful situations. I was just trying to offer the viewpoint that within the context of a happy marriage, these things aren't necessarily "bad".
> Sex between a H & wife should be fun!
I agree completely! I hope to spend the rest of my day's married and faithful to the same woman. But, no matter how much I enjoy making love with my wife, at some point the same old routine can get, well, routine. So, we try to keep our sex life exciting by trying new things from time to time. This may be as simple as trying a different position, or making love in another room instead of always being in the bedroom. From time to time, we may explore other activities as well, including erotic movies, sex toy's, masturbation, oral, anal, filming our lovemaking, or having sex in unusual places. The point is keeping our sex life fun and exciting, and just between the two of us.
As far as I'm concerned, it's more about sharing your desires and fantasies with your partner than the specific sex acts you do or do not perform. I'm not personally into role playing, but if my wife comes home one night and wants to ride a Canadian Mountie, then I'm your man, eh? Obviously, I'm not always going to be crazy about her ideas, and she isn't always going to be crazy about mine. We have both tried things and decided they weren't something we enjoyed. And that's OK. But we were open and trust each other enough to share our most intimate thoughts. And isn't that what marriage is all about? If I can't share these things with my wife, then who do I share them with? Am I supposed to pretend I don't have these thoughts and feelings?
Having new things to look forward to keeps our marriage happy and healthy. When we have an idea of something new we can try, it puts a smile on both of our faces. And sometimes the idea is all we need. We'll head to the same bed, in the same room, and make love the same way. But we connect in new ways mentally, and that's part of the fun. To laugh, and be playful.
Obviously, the vast majority of our sex life is routine, average sex. I love you, you love me, do the deed, good night. We're not swinging from the chandelier every night of the week. But every now and then it's fun to do something exciting together. It's nice to know my wife can be my playmate, as well as a friend, and companion.
> I do get jealous easily though & don't like
> him looking at other women.
I'll admit, since D-day, I have a lot harder time accepting my wife looking at other guys. What was once "have fun looking, but come home to me", now carries a lot of baggage with it. But at the same time, I am realistic in knowing she is going to find other men attractive.
Thankfully, my wife is much more accepting of me looking at other women. She often says "I don't care if you look, as long as you take it out on me..." I think it's a trust issue again. By telling her when I find another woman attractive, she get's to know me better, who I am, what things I find attractive, etc. Heck, she even points women out to me on occasion. But, she knows that I am completely in love with her, that I am not comparing her to other women in any way, and that I will be totally faithful by her side.
Yes, I know the scripture, "he who looks at another woman with lust in his heart, has already committed adultry". I'm guilty... I remember asking an elderly lady in our church one time, "how do I draw the line between LOOKING at a woman and finding her attractive, and looking at a woman with LUST in my heart". With a gentle smile, she responded "if you look once you are admiring. If you look twice, you are lusting". That was over 20 years ago, and her words stick with me to this day. Obviously I'm in deep doo-doo when I look three, four, or five times... Then again, sometimes it's just one long stare...
Mike,
> I think anything that draws your focus away from your marriage to someone
> or something else is wrong.
That's OK, I don't disagree with you. You and your wife should do whatever is comfortable for you, and brings you closer together.
There are plenty of sexual activities and lifestyle choices I don't agree with. So, those are things I won't get involved in.
I try to balance my personal interests, with those of my wife, my religeous beliefs, and basic moral guidelines. Sure, I make bad choices from time to time. Don't we all. I certainly wouldn't say you SHOULD try these other activities, just that you aren't wrong if you want to add a little playfulness at times.
> My wife and I now make love every night
We vary... During vacations or playful weekends, we may make love two or three times a day. But on a normal basis, we typically make love every day or two. Of course, work and other burdens of normal life sometimes interfere and then we'll drop to once a week or so.
That sounds realistic to me bro. Shit we're not walking around with blinders on. And who would want to be with someone that insecure that wants "blinders"? What's the next step? You poke their eyes out? We are talking about noticing someone attractive right...not gualking at them and looking like an idiot and ignoring your spouse.
I never bought into that whole "if you lust in your heart" you've committed adultry thing. Bring it home to your spouse that's all. What is wrong with having a fantasy in your head as long as you know where your heart belongs and once again...you bring it home? My fantasies are just that...MINE... unless I choose to share them with my lady. Same for her.
I gotta feeling bro your wife IS your fantasy. Same here...my lady IS my fantasy and so much more...she's my reality. I'll take that any day of the week.
If you are both happy and content then that's the main thing. Its not about hysterical bonding. Its about love and its fun. It doesn't have to mean something every time other than "I want you" because the love is always there.
> We are talking about noticing someone attractive right...
If I'm being totally honest here, there have been at least three instances where the beauty I thought I was admiring, turned around and was actually a guy. Ooops... My wife and family members never let me live that down...
> not gualking at them and looking like an idiot
Well, I usually look like an idiot anyway, so it would be hard to see a difference!
