"I just dont want to celebrate a place that has brought me nothing but misery.
I have always told him that the pizzeria was his true mistress. I really didnt know how right I actually was."

While I certainly understand you feeling this way, I think his real mistresses are his addictions. The parlor is just his means of feeding it.

Charlie

Yes, I think you are right Charlie.  Thanks for the reply.

Take Care,

Carol~

>>He seemed a little upset about it and was hinting like maybe I forgot.<<

Carol, maybe it's all starting to sink in a little. He seems like the classic case of someone who won't realize what he's lost until it's all gone.

Chris.

Chris,

 

I dont know if it will sink in even then! 

Take care,

Carol~

Hi Carol...I have been thinking about you and wondering how you have been doing. I have made a MAJOR decision about my life that relates to much of what you were saying about "triggers". My former H and I bought the property to build his dental practice on 2 BLOCKS FROM OUR HOME. I can't even drive down that street anymore. I have to go about 2 miles out of my way just to get to my own job that used to be about 500 yards. Thanks, honey. Anyway, I have decided to leave this town and am actively seeking a teaching position (I teach college) at another institution. I decided this before Christmas and have had a couple of "bites"....anyway, I thave NOTHING left here for me but sadness and bad memories. I am in a position that I can indeed begin my life again. I am hoping to move further North (I live in TN) so that I can be closer to my siblings. All three of them live near Cincinnati. Anyway, the idea of unloading a home with 34 years worth of "stuff" is unnerving, but I am actually looking forward to it. Only my children know and the people from whom I have asked to write references. I could leave tomorrow and I doubt most people would even notice. My former H was moved out of our home for 3 months before anyone knew. Anyway, I certainly appreciate your need to build the Chinese wall...I am about to embark on it as well. This was the absolute LAST thing I thought I would be doing at this time in my life...moving with out a husband. Life is so full of surprises.....Good Luck. Take care of those children...pizza's not really good for you anyway.

Carol,

I can see where a place can trigger so much pain. You have worked hard and he doesn't realize it or he knows it and can't admit it because of something within him. We have lived in our home 15 years. We bought it several months after he confessed his 1st A (a ONS one year before), and I thought I decided to forgive and build a life with him. Actually, I decided to bury the whole thing and believe the promises he made but never kept and I never checking up on him to verify anything. The house is in a neighborhood I grew up in and before d-day I had planned to live there the rest of my life. I don't want to live there anymore. I don't like staying there alone either. Before d-day, I would enjoy times when I would be able to stay home alone and rest and read a little. Now when I am home alone, I remember times I was alone before and wonder each time was he with the OW, sometimes I know he was looking back other times I doubt that he was with her. The OW's aunt telling everyone in the neighborhood about the OC and making completely false statements about me hasn't helped want me to stay there either. I know moving a way will not fix anything. I think if I am able to move to this house I have put a bid on, at least for now, things may be a little easier. I feel like it will be like a new start, no memories in this house. When they asked how I would like the deed prepared, I said with my name and my daughter's name with rights of survivorship. The real estate agent hesitated a little (she knows I am married) and made sure I knew what that meant. I assured her I did and that was clearly how I wanted the deed prepared.

Have you ever talked about selling the pizzeria with your H? Not necessarily getting out of the business altogether but maybe opening a new location and selling the one you have or just relocating the business? If your H is like my H, he would never consider it. Maybe mentioning it to discuss, even if the outcome is no change, might help.

I can understand how you feel and wish I had some good advice to give.

<<Have you ever talked about selling the pizzeria with your H? Not necessarily getting out of the business altogether but maybe opening a new location and selling the one you have or just relocating the business? If your H is like my H, he would never consider it. Maybe mentioning it to discuss, even if the outcome is no change, might help. >>

 

Actually we did talk ONCE about selling the pizzeria, and that was right after d-day.  I told him that I wanted the place gone.  I explained how it was full of bad memories (and happy ones too...but more BAD than good) and he actually agreed.  BUT when it came down to it, he said he couldn't, didnt even know what he was thinking even considering it.  He did think about relocation only because he wanted to expand the business.  Then suddenly the building behind us went up for sale and he bought that instead.  Now he is even more into wanting to do more with the pizzeria.  He already works 7 days a week, 15 hours a day, and refuses to go on vacations, so where is he going to find the time to expand? He cannot give any more to the pizzeria than he already does.  But you know what I have discovered "where there's a will, there's a way" with this man...he is not human...he is a machine!  After all the time he put into the pizzeria he still found time to have an affair, but no time for me and the kids.  I guess cause the kids ar not up at 2am, so I guess that's their fault, right?  So if he really wants to I have no doubt he will find even more time for the pizzeria, taking away the very last smidgen of time he does manage to spend with us.  He even joined an historic business revitalization commitee because he feels it will benefit the pizzeria.  He dedicates 2 mornings a month, and also goes whenever they have "special" meetings, but he couldnt go to MC one morning a week. HA!  HE said he had BETTER things to do with his time...meaning things for the pizzeria.

Thank God I am going to therapy!  When I look over my own postings I think "what am I doing staying with this man"?. Yes, I love him but it is pretty one-sided.  I am sure he does love me too but he just loves the pizzeria and pot more. I really see now how sick he is and how much I need help to get out of the situation that Im in. I am begining to understand how I got here.  It is a slow manipulation that took a long time...I see it more and more.  My new C is good!  He is really helping me understand a lot of things about myself, like why I feel it is OK to be treated this way, why I feel like I deserve it.  How my self esteem and self worth had erroded over time and how to get it back! He is going to help me every step of the way, where I can get to a point and make my own decisions and stick up for myself and my beliefs and not back down during a confronatation with my H.  Oh, that will be the day!  It will either force H to ship up and change his ways, or he can stay the same and live a lonely existence by himself with his drugs and the pizzeria to keep him warm.  Because if he doesnt change he will not have me to warm up to...but that will be his choice as well as mine.  It will no longer be all about HIM!  That's where I want to get to...that is my goal...where I will have the power within me do what is right for ME and not worry about HIM...not let HIM have control over me.  I want to take that power back, because I gave it to him...I gave away myself.  No one should ever give themsleves away like that.  But you dont even realize it's happeing...it happens little by little, over time.  So does healing...little by little over time.  But I am getting there

Take Care,

Carol~

Sage and Ann,

I just wanted to say that I really understand the desire to move away from the triggers (and the gossip) and to move on.  I really think physically getting away from the triggers does help us do just that, even if it means uprooting ourselves.  If me and H get divorced I certainly do not want to be anywhere near the pizzeria. Not only will EVERYONE gossip, but the place itself just upsets me as it is, and to think I came in 3rd to a pizzeria and drugs...OUCH!  I hate to admit this but I already drive a couple of minutes out of my way not to pass by it if I am no going there to work or visit.  It does have a psychological and emotional effect.  And I believe that starting over begins with getting rid of the past, even if it means a place in our past.  I think the sayings are true, like a house is not a home until it is filled with memories of family and friends.  But those should be joyful memories, not memories full of pain and loss.  When there is more pain than joy it's time to move on, even if it means moving out! My delicate psyche can only take so much abuse, lol.

Take care,

Carol~

"But you dont even realize it's happeing...it happens little by little, over time."

Your right Carol. I can say that definitely happened to me as well. You don't see it coming and it takes a while to come out of that. I defended my ex to other people, I put up with horrible behavior and he always turned it around on me, and I kept on giving and he kept on taking (because I let him.) Carol, if your H's behavior doesn't change, I have a feeling that one day you will actually feel lucky to be out of it.

For me, things continued to become clearer and clearer the farther I got away from my ex. It is bizarre the way that works. I, like you, also remember reading over old posts by myself and thinking how far in my thinking I had come. I think we all probably do that here??? Now, I look over them and wonder why it took so long.

Charlie

<<Now, I look over them and wonder why it took so long.>>

I have no doubt that I will say the same thing!  There is a saying here that I believe is the absolute truth "you will know when it's time".  I am doing the work on me to get to that point.  I am not ready yet.  But I know in my own time, when I am ready, the time will come

Take care,

Carol~

Carol,

All I have to say is I like your new pic. It looks peaceful. That is what I wish for you...peace. However you find it.

Much Regards,

Tex

Carol, I could have written Charlie's post too...as well as that part of your post where you realized how much of your self and your power you had given away an inch at a time. When you have given so much away, it takes a long long time to get it stopped, then turned around. And like Charlie, the full extent of it didn't become apparent to me until I was separated for a while.

We all do find our own way, eventually.

Chris.

<<All I have to say is I like your new pic. It looks peaceful. That is what I wish for you...peace. However you find it.>>

 

Ok Tex, is this your way of saying that I am on the right path FINALLY?  I hope so because it took me 18 months to get here

And Im glad you like the picture.  The sunset is from our one and only family vacation right after d-day. I cant believe he never wants to take another vacation ever again.  It truly is HIS loss. Oh well, me and the kids will have a great time anyway this summer in Italy. 

Take Care,

Carol~

<<you realized how much of your self and your power you had given away an inch at a time. When you have given so much away, it takes a long long time to get it stopped, then turned around. And like Charlie, the full extent of it didn't become apparent to me until I was separated for a while.>>

 

I am afraid of that...maybe my recent realization is just the tip of the iceberg.  How much more of me is missing I wonder?  One more reason why I need to continue to focus on me.  I know it will take time.  But it is hard holding everything else together in the meantime...very stressful.  For a few weeks there I totally lost it. But now I am doing OK I think...not great, but OK.

Take Care,

Carol~

Hi Carol! Glad to hear that you're doing o.k. You seem to have some focus now. Good for you! I was doing o.k. but have been really down the last few days.I sometimes wonder if I can get past this mess & have it be just my H & I. instead of THE A, H & I. There is nothing that seems like it use to be. The A takes up all my thinking & most all of my feelings. I know I'm lucky that my H is trying but when I get in these moods I don't really care that he's trying because he's already ruined what we had. What are you doing for yourself these days? Have you found happiness in anything? I don't have a clue how to stay happy anymore. I manage for a few days & then it's gone.I just want to think about only myself & I can't seem to do it. Do you have any hobbies? I don't have any but would love to learn candlemaking. I'm pretty broke right now but would love to give it a try sometime. Are you getting excited about your vacation? I would give almost anything to be able to travel!!

Hello Barb,

I understand the feelings you're talking about.  I have days like that too, yes, still after 19 months, lol.  But that's because my H isnt really trying.  He's too busy for me, too busy for our family, too busy for our marriage.  And some BS's just cant get over what happened no matter how hard the WS tries.  It's too little too late and the damage has been done.  But for others, the marriage can be even better than it was because they both worked hard on themselves and hard to rebuild the marriage.  I would never judge anyone for staying or for going, whether the WS is trying or not.  You have to be true to your feelings and needs, and listen to your inner voice.  Mine was literally screaming at me to get out!  But I didnt listen, so here I am. 

You asked me what am I doing for myself now?  I am doing many of the things I did before, like going to the movies (which I love) and acupuncture, and walks, and  I do a lot of reading.  I also draw and paint. But the number one thing I am doing for ME is therapy.  I am discovering who Carol is.  I have been living my life for others and not really living a life for me.  No matter what Carol wants she is invisible to herself and others. Carol got lost in what everyone else wanted and needed from Carol, or what Carol thought they needed. Carol became unimportant to herself, and to everyone else. I knew I enjoyed certain things and I knew there were things I didnt like, but what I dont know is what I really want or what I really need.  I have never truly thought about it.  When asked, I would always say what my H wants or what my kids want, I am fine, it doesnt matter, do what you want...not what Carol wants. And why would anyone ask what Carol wants anyway?  She is too busy to want anything...too busy taking care of everyone else,  and too busy being responsible for everything that happens around her whether she has control over it or not.  I know Im in there somewhere, but where?  With the help of my therapist I will find her, I will find Carol, I will find ME

Take Care,

Carol~

Good for you Carol! I am happy for you that you are on the road to finding out what you want. I basically know what I want as far as things go but can't have them anymore due to money. I would love to own a horse again & would love to travel but I don't see those things ever happening again. As far as my marriage I don't really know what I want anymore. Since I found out about the A I spend half my time wanting things to work out & half my time not wanting to be with him. Like right now I just want to live alone but that could change again. So, I don't know which feeling to act on. I worked alot on getting over the hatred & I'm proud of myself for that but I am beginning to think I can't stay married to him because of the A & lies. I feel unloved & not respected because of what he did. I am tired of all the energy that it's requiring just to get thru each day.You hang in there Carol!!!

That is what I am talking about Barb.  Not knowing what I want in my marriage or if I even want my marriage anymore.  Yes, I know what I want as far as "things" go too, but I dont know what I want or need deep down inside emotionally.  My emotional needs have gone unmet for so long and I have been so manipulated and I feel so confused that I cannot even make a decision for myself.  My soul is so polluted with the lies and betrayal that I cannot see beyond them to find myself.  I really do feel lost in every sense of the word. 

I too feel unimportant and disrespected in my marriage.  And like you, 50% of the time I want it to work and the other 50% I dont!  All that means for us is that we are not ready to make that decision. When the time comes we will make it and we will know that it is the right choice for us.  But I cant get there is I dont know who I am or what I really want and need.  I have to take care of ME first and the rest will follow, I am certain of it.

Take Care,

Carol~

Hi Carol! Gee, we seem to have similar feelings ! Last nite I argued with H over the phone & today I was really nasty to him. I told him I hated him, wanted him to leave,& wanted a divorce. Then I started crying & told him I didn't want those things. I told him I'm all broken inside & I don't know how to fix things. He says that we'll fix things. I hope it's possible but lately I have been so down. Hopefully this will work out in the next 12 months or so. I just want to feel like a normal person again. This way of life is not fun at all! You hang in there Carol. You do seem stronger than you were a few months ago. When you do discover yourself, I'm sure you will be proud of who you are!!!!

Barb,

Thank you for the words of support and encouragement.

Dont be so hard on yourself.  We cant help it that our feelings are such a mess.  Who's wouldnt be considering the circumstances?  But when everyone here talks about taking care of yourself, it is not about "things".  Well, it is partly, but that is just the begining...that is how it starts.  Do little things for yourself like we had talked about, like the flowers and the movies.  You start to feel important to yourself, instead of making everyone else a priority or relying on others to do them for you.  Then it starts to shift and you go deeper.  You start taking better care of yourself little, by little, physically, mentally, and emotionally.  If you can meet your own needs others will not have such power over you.  You will be able to make your own decisions because you know yourself and what your needs are.  You are then building more self respect and self esteem.  You start to have confidence in yourself and fight for yourself.  You realize that you really are important to yourself and that is what makes you a strong person.

You hang in there too Barb.  You are stronger than you think

Take care,

Carol~

Carol - your posts lately have been sooooooooooooooo... empowered! I think you've come to grips with the fact that you're responsible for you and not your H.

I lived with a pothead, too... it caused more fights than I can count, because, IMHO, it's just stupid. Grow up!

I went to get pizza Friday night and the owners (first generation Italian immigrants) were talking to a couple about their upcoming trip to Italy. They had lots of good recommendations - it made ME want to go to Italy with them. Think I can stow away in your luggage?

^5 Carol!
(Edited to say that I LIVED with a pothead, not LOVED with one. Sheesh!)

Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

<<I think you've come to grips with the fact that you're responsible for you and not your H. >>

It is hard to work through the guilt you feel for feeling responsible for some one else.  I know now that I am not responsible for my H...not for his feelings and not for his choices, and it is not my responsibility to "fix" him.  I am only responsible for myself in the marriage.  This takes alot of drilling in!!!  Many have tried, lol.  I think I finally have it engrained.

<<I lived with a pothead, too... it caused more fights than I can count, because, IMHO, it's just stupid. Grow up!>>

That's it Monica, most people grow out of it as they grow up and take on the responsibilites of a family and work.  I thought my H would grow out of it and grow up, but he didnt. It's those who wont/cant that have the problem!  And they say "we" are the ones with the problem, "what's the big deal, it's just a little pot?"  It's not just a little pot, it's a drug, it's a mind and mood altering substance that distances you from life!  It isolates you and becomes an addiction.  It detroys your life and the lives of your family...your children.  Cause even when you are there, you're not there!  You're too fried to even care.  That's the problem!

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement

Take Care,

Carol~