This message has been edited by pizzalady on Mar 7, 2007 2:24 PM This message has been edited by pizzalady on Mar 7, 2007 2:21 PM This message has been edited by pizzalady on Mar 6, 2007 1:28 PM
It sounds like you are taking some very important steps for yourself. Good Job
Do you think your H is doing a bit of his own detaching... First the Pizza Place, now with sex? I know my ex always wanted to be the one in charge, which led to a power struggle in the marriage. Maybe by forcing him to go to Italy & now by you starting the detachment process, a power struggle has begun (even if it's a battle with himself).
Keep building friendships and living your life. Do the things that make you happy and stay connected with the people that really care & love you.
My H is a control freak for sure. Everything he does is about selfishness and control. The pushing away and punishment is a cycle for him and he has done this before. After he had an accident he pushed me away because he was angry at himslef. When I went on a vacation without him (me, the kids, and my sister, and her kids) although I begged him to come he still punished me by having the A. So this is nothing new. I dont know if it is detachment for him or just some sick control game. With his addictions and passive-aggressive behavior, I feel it is the latter.
Take Care...Carol~
EDITED TO ADD:
Also since Italy H has stopped calling the hosue to let me know he is on his way home from the pizzeria, a boundary that was established since d-day and he had respected it until now...he feels he doesnt have to anymore....further proof that I am doing the right thing by detaching. Something else I havent mentioned either but his behavior is getting rather odd. He is now keeping his passport at the pizzeria as well, and most of his "personal" belongings except the majority of his clothes. So something is up....I must protect myself.
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Jul 14, 2006 12:40 PM This message has been edited by pizzalady on Jul 14, 2006 12:08 PM
Hi Carol! Hugs to you! I think you are doing your best! You hang in there & do what feels right for you & your children.It sure sounds like H is behaving rather odd! Just focus on you & the kids. I have gotten rather good at the detatchment thing.At first you kind of have to fake it & work at it but afterawhile, you just really don't care much anymore. I like it!I am focused on myself(lost 10 lbs)& my children!How's your daughter's bedroom comming along? You are so talented! I still draw stick people!!!
As you said "something is up". I agree. You are absolutly correct in taking steps to protect yourself. I know you two own the pizza place. My ex & I owned a motorcycle shop and my attorney told me that all the debts from the shop where 1/2 mine.... (even though throughout the marriage he kept all the profit). Also, Ex started hiding money, he drained our savings account. I'm just saying be careful and take some steps now that will make your life easier should he or you decide to fully leave.
Hi Carol...I am so sorry that it has come to this. I agree with the others, he is certainly thinking about himself and not including you. My former H as well opened another checking account, not to my knowledge though, and I know was "hiding" money. i didn't try to access it....I just let it go, however, you are obviously aware, at some level, that things are different. This is not a game, this is real. I don't know how you manage the money stuff at the pizza place, but if you have had access to the books and no longer do, that would alarm me..personally. Have you told your H what you are doing? Trying to detach? Or, does he think you are simply "reacting" to his immature behavior? I would want him to know what you are doing. He needs to know what your plans are...at this point. What a joke...we are married to these people, best friends, then poof.....they act like we are the "enemy"....so surreal.
Continue with what you think you need to do. Do you work outside the home? Is that something that you would have time to do? Just to get some money in the bank.....honestly, sometimes these WS's simply go off of the deepend and we dont' even know with whom we are dealing.
I'm just echoing what the others are saying. Now is not the time to try to negotiate and tell him everything, you need a good lawyer. Even if it never comes to a divorce, and I'm not optimistic from what you've been saying, you need to not trust that he will look out for your best interests. I know it is almost a habit to think that way, but things have changed.
You have to be businesslike at this point. My ex actually became more reasonable financially as the divorce process started. He kept telling his lawyer "I feel so guilty" to which my lawyer responded, "good, he should, and he needs to take care of business (fairly). I was fortunate to have a lawyer that was very pro - women's rights. It was a refreshing change!!
It is the hardest thing in the world to deal with finances and protecting yourself when you feel like you life is falling apart, but you have that strength inside you, it has been obvious. And always remember, you are the one that tried and always did the right thing.
Nice to know I am not crazy and that my gut is probably right on. And Chris agrees with me..WOW, lol
I just noticed today at the pizzeria that he is also suddenly not wearing his wedding ring at work...says it bothers him while making pizza, LOL. I've heard that one before! He has been wearing it since breaking up with OW 2 years ago, so why does it suddenly "bother" him again? I dont buy it!
He is also saying he didnt say certain things on d-day which I know he did. How can I forget d-day? I remember everything he said to me almost word for word. This really makes me angry! He acts like I an nuts. He's the one who's nuts! He said, and I quote "please dont leave me alone at the pizzeria" so after d-day I did my best to be there are much as I could. But now that he is pushing me away again, he says he never said that! What a load!!!
Thanks for all of the replies...take care...Carol~
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Jul 14, 2006 11:33 PM
I have to agree with Chris in that you do NOT let your husband know what you are doing. It will just make him more secretive and harder for you to find out what he is up to.
The fact that your husband is now keeping his passport and personal papers at the pizzaria now would have me wondering what's up. I may be totally wrong here but I seem to remember way, way back, you saying that nothing is in your name be it the pizzaria, house, credit cards, etc. I hope I am wrong about that but if I am remembering correctly, if he decides to make a break you will certainly be left high and dry. At the very least I would apply for a credit card in my name. If/when the time comes that you should decide to go it alone you will need some kind of credit history. It will be easier to get that now while you have his income to list. Also, any way that you can squirrel away some cash as a safety net, I would do it.
It's time to think about you, Carol, and get yourself prepared on ALL fronts. Good luck.
Yes, everything is in his name. I did get myself a credit card a few months back. I have done a few other things to protect myself financially but cannot go into them on the boards. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it
Last night my MIL gave me a paper for H to sign. It is a transfer of one stock to another. H did not say a word to me about it. We never talked about transfering stock to this company. I know nothing about them. I am getting tired of these unilateral moves. I am in this marriage to and I have a right to know about our finances. This is the sort of thing that really gets me mad. I dont care if we transfer the stock, but I do care that I was not informed or had any say in the matter. Had my MIL not given me the papers I woiuld have never known! I just cant tolerate this secretive behavior anymore either. It's just like all the other secrets, it's disclosure feels like a betrayal...like another slap in the face...he is saying I will do what I want and I will not take you into consideration. When you are married that is not the way you should be looking at things. I am so sick of this I could scream!!!! UGH!!! Sorry, I just needed to vent about that one. It is just one thing after another lately with him. Perhaps I am just now seeing all of this myself for what it really is and what it really means, which makes me mad at myself for not seeing it all sooner.
In a nutshell, I feel H needs professional medical help. He is acting very paranoid and is overworking himself into the grave lately and is refusing help to lighten the load (telling me and his brother that he doesnt need our help at the pizzeria so he ahs more work for himself). He refuses to even go see a Dr. for a check-up. I can't force him to go. I do feel helpless at times but we cannot control other people. So I can only take care of myself and the kids and continue to detach. It's doesnt even feel like I have a choice anymore, it feels more like it's something I have to do for my own survival. That may sound selfish, but once you have exhausted every avenue what else can you do? He must want help. And most have to hit rock bottom first. So maybe this is what needs to happen for him to get help.
Hi Carol! Some hit rock bottom & never seek help anyway.My first H totally screwed up his life & is probably still messing things up. The last time I talked to his mom(yrs. ago) he had been in prison again & had made several other children that he didn't stick around to raise.Some people wallow in the mess but manage to survive.After my first H & I got divorced, I thought he would hit rock bottom & fix his life but he never did(fix it). Anway Carol, it is good that you are aware that H is up to something.You have grown alot since H's A. You should be proud of yourself! I am discovering that detatching can be a very interesting process. I still love my H but I am finding that it's easier to not care than I thought it would be.It's a shame that our spouses have brought us to the point where we can actually turn off & sometimes deleat any feelings that we have/had for them.Carol, we will come out of this A mess stronger & better! I do believe that! Take care!!
Thanks Barb for your reply and encouragement. It sounds like your are doing good. Detaching is not what I wanted to do but what I have to do now. You are right, even if he does hit rock bottom there are no guarantees he will seek help. That is all the more reason to continue to detach.
After I got those papers last night I wanted to so badly for him not to even come home. I wanted him out of my life. I hate myself for feeling that way but I always used to repress those feelings. I felt the same way on d-day...everything inside of me was saying "kick him out" but I didnt do it. I am learning more and more to listen to myself which is why I am detaching...I know I have to.
Hi Carol! I made the mistake of telling H that he could move back in last Tuesday..Here it is Saturday & he has had an excuse each night for not comming back. The first 2 nights he called late & said he forgot his c-pap(his breathing machine for sleep aphnea). Then Thursday night he worked till 4a.m & since it was so late he decided to just sleep at his friend Mike's house, where he has been staying. Last night he called me at 3 a.m. to say that it was late & since he was working only about 10 minutes from Mike's he was just going to stay there. WHATEVER! I had been having thoughts all week that I should not have asked him to come back. I don't even know why I did ask him. Actually, I do. Monday I was upset because I had been spending alot of time trying to find a mortgage company that would help us get our house back. No luck & I was feeling down.So, in a weak moment I told him he could come back. Anyway, I left him a message this morning & told him that I was not going to keep playing this game of him comming up with excuses for not moving back in. I told him that it was better if he just stayed where he is.Then I talked to him on the phone alittle while ago & he hadn't listened to the message so I told him what it said. He said that he wasn't playing games.I told him that it sure seemed that way to the kids & I. Then I finally got him to admit that he thought it was best if we were apart until we heard back from the bank. I told him that we already know what the bank will say. Anyway, I told him we should just stay apart. I'm not even really sad about it. Just frustrated that I let him play games all week & that I even told him that he could move back in in the first place. I am happier without him. I don't know why he changed so much the last 2 years but I do not really even like who he is anymore.
I think that you will do fine Carol! As I said before, the detatchment gets so much easier with time. I am amazed that I no longer cry over him & I no longer care what he is up to.Oh, every now & then I wil think" I wonder what he's doing" but it's not a nagging thing & I don't cry or obsess over it anymore.He's created this mess & it's not my problem right now.I am not really even lonely . I keep busy with the daycare & my kids.I even took time & went to a movie by myself last night.
Do you have any way to check your bank accounts or the books for the business without him knowing? At least you would have some idea what you are up against! His behavior sure seems to indicate that something is not right! Well, all you can do is control your life & the direction that you want it to go.Have you consulted a lawyer to figure out how to protect yourself & the kids? If you call one & explain the strange goings on with your H, a lawyer might have some good suggestions on how to cover your butt!I'm sure they deal with this stuff alot! Try & destress -go for a walk, take a bubblebath, indulge in a hobby, etc. It is all about you & the kids!!Remember that we are all here for you.Soon you will find yourself thinking of your family as just you & your kids. I found myself doing that the other day. I told the kids that I will take a whole weekend off in August to celebrate my son's birthday & spend time with them. My son is having his birthday party at Splash(indoor pool with waves). It's affordable & fun! Then I surprised the kids by telling them that I will take that whole weekend off so that we can also drive to the coast & spend the day together.;maybe even stay all night if we can find a really cheap hotel!I happened to mention it to H & at the moment that I did, it dawned on me that I hadn't even thought of including him!So, it does get easier!!And, I don't really consider it to be mean. Afterall, they chose to have their own little life & they chose the A & the lying & whatever other behaviors that they know are hurtful & wrong. I am not mad. I am just giving up.Searching for happiness with my job & kids is alot easier that searching for something within my H that no longer seems to be there.So, here's to brighter days Carol!!!
I'm really happy to read that you have done some things to protect yourself financially. That's one thing at least that you don't need to worry about.
<<<I am so sick of this I could scream!!!! UGH!!! Sorry, I just needed to vent about that one. It is just one thing after another lately with him. Perhaps I am just now seeing all of this myself for what it really is and what it really means, which makes me mad at myself for not seeing it all sooner. >>>
No need to apologize for venting. We all do it and recognize the need for it. Also, try not to beat yourself for not seeing things sooner for what they are. You weren't ready yet. You were trying your best to save your marriage. Unfortunately you can't do it by yourself. If he is unable to do what he needs to do, as you said yourself, you can't change him or do it for him. So just know in your heart now that you did the best you could and tried your damndest. You can go on from here now, do what YOU need to do to get on with your life with a clear conscience and no regrets for not giving it your all.
It's not going to be easy which you already know but it needs to be done. Having never gone through a seperation or divorce myself I cannot speak from experience, however, I have a feeling it may be easier than what you have been living and dealing with!
Try to stay strong and if you fall apart at times, which is inevitable and totally understandable as far as I am concerned, know you will get past this and it will get better. Also, keep posting and venting when you need to. I know it gives me strength and makes me feel connected to people who understand and want nothing from me except to help.
Angela
P.S. Barbara---I am glad to hear how much better you seem to be doing since your husband has been out of the house!
This message has been edited by nobodys.fool on Jul 15, 2006 5:47 PM
<<We never talked about transfering stock to this company. I know nothing about them. I am getting tired of these unilateral moves. I am in this marriage to and I have a right to know about our finances. This is the sort of thing that really gets me mad. I dont care if we transfer the stock, but I do care that I was not informed or had any say in the matter. Had my MIL not given me the papers I woiuld have never known! I just cant tolerate this secretive behavior anymore either. It's just like all the other secrets, it's disclosure feels like a betrayal...like another slap in the face...he is saying I will do what I want and I will not take you into consideration. When you are married that is not the way you should be looking at things.>>
Given that I am trying to detach from H should I confront him with my feelings about the stock transfer? We are still married and I have every right to have a say in this, but I am confused. Do I only detach from issues regarding H only, or do I detach regarding the marriage (including finances) and not say anything? This detachment stuff is not easy to figure all of it out. I am learning as I go.
I would say "talk" to him about it. You are still married, still living together, and this affects the financial future of you, and the kids for that matter, too. I would try to do it as "nonconfrontationally" as possible or he may just dig in his heals and stay closed mouthed about it. But you still need to approach him with confidence in yourself and in your right to be a part of this decision. I know, it's a fine line to walk. It may sound silly but if you are unsure about how to do it, practice in front of a mirror.
I don't know about the money issue. We don't have any money! I guess you could ask & just not show any emotion. But really Carol, is it going to help to ask? Is he really going to volunteer any info? Probably not. I AM SO MAD at my H right now that I could scream. My brakes have been giving me trouble & he knows it. Well today I called & told him that they were worse & that the fluid was leaking out really fast. Anyway, he said that he was busy today & couldn't look at it until tomorrow. Well, I called him awhile ago & it turns out that he is at a car show passing out f***ing flyers for the stupid store he works at during the day. So, he was too damn busy to fix it but not too busy to go pass out flyers. Now I really know where the kids & I rank. After he fixes it tomorrow I am going totally "NO Contact". He won't hear from us anymore.Believe me Carol the more time goes on, the worse they seem! Take care Carol!!!
<<Given that I am trying to detach from H should I confront him with my feelings about the stock transfer? We are still married and I have every right to have a say in this, but I am confused. Do I only detach from issues regarding H only, or do I detach regarding the marriage (including finances) and not say anything? This detachment stuff is not easy to figure all of it out. I am learning as I go.>> [underline emphasis Jean's]
Carol, take the "feelings" part out of it and just ask him for the information. You don't have to tell him how you feel. Tell him what you think. You are entitled to the information regarding any finances within the marriage.
Thanks everyone. And Jean, I like the part about taking the "feelings" out of it and just tell him matter of factly that as his wife I have every right to know what happens with our finances. Sounds good to me!
Take Care...Carol~
EDITED TO ADD:
Barb, I am so sorry for the way your H is acting. Sounds like the split was a good idea, at least for now. He is not acting like he wants to come back. I think my H would act the same and enjoy the single life. I think they feel they are missing out on something somehow by being married. Something is missing in them....has nothing to do with being married...they are selfish and immature. ((((hugs)))
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Jul 16, 2006 12:42 AM
Hi Carol! Hope you get some answers from your H. It's so hard to keep wondering what they are up to, isn't it. I'm doing better. H called alittle while ago & I guess that I jumped to conclusions about the car show & flyers.See, when I talked to him on the phone earlier, I hung up before he could explain that he was only at the car show for about 15 minutes.It still upsets me that he didn't come & fix my van tonight. He says he will do it tomorrow.It's a shame that they drive us to the point where we just can't trust them & don't have many feelings for them.He told me tonight that he still loves me & feels the same way that he always has. I told him that I don't feel the same way about him anymore. I told him that he has put the kids & I thru so much.I told him that it would take a hell of alot of work on his part to repair what he did & that I don't think he has it in him to do it.I don't want to wish or hope anymore. I want action & results.I have been waiting for 2 yrs. for him to treat me & the kids the way we deserve to be treated.Now I am stepping back.I feel like I am the one who has worked to keep us together, not him. I can't do the work for both of us & I don't want to anymore.I sense that you are feeling the same way.It's not giving up,it's just seeing clearly!I still would love to see us put this marriage back together BUT "us" is the key word.I hope that you find the answers that you need Carol. You do have the right to know what is being done with the business & your money!Stay strong & love yourself.Enjoy your kids the rest of the summer! When does school start there? Here it starts the 3rd or 4th of Sept. The summer seems to be gong by so fast! They are putting school supplies out in the stores already!!
Well, I had to talk to H this morning about the stocks because the papers needed to be signed and turned into the broker by Monday. I was very calm and just simply told him that he needed to sign the transfer papers and if he could please tell me about the stock itself and why he did not tell me about the transfer. I said as his wife that I had a right to be informed about such transfers. H played stupid! He said he didnt know anything about it. I said "how can you not know?" Then He said his sister came in and talked to him while he was busy and he thought he signed all the papers already. So then how did he not know ANYTHING if his sister talked to him and he already signed some of the papers? See the confusing answers I get? And not just about the stocks, this is the way he answers everything I ask, or he just uses silence. Then he says to me "I thought you and my sister decided on this stock". Uhm, how could I decide on something I knew nothing about? Then I said if your sister talked to you then as my husband it is your responsibility to talk to me about it before anything is drawn up or transfered. It is not your sister's responsibility to inform me of anything. And then he told me that his sister asked him for more money to add to the stocks beside the transfer itself. Boy, I am surprised he even mentioned that but I guess now that I know about the tarnsfer he figured I would find out about the money, especially since I will see all of them today at dinner.
Funny how he knew nothing about it, lol! I don't understand this behavior...there is no logic to what he said. It all contradicts itself, or am I the only one who thinks that. I feel he is just trying to confuse me, shift balme to his sister, and throw me off track. Maybe it's just me, I dont know.
You are right...there has to be an "US". I have told my H that over and over. As long as I am the only one working on the marriage, and he excludes me (and the kids) from his life, there is no "US". No "us", no marriage. It's really quite simple.
And it is very sad that have pushed us to the point where there is no trust and we must wonder about every little thing because they refuse to communicate and they refuse to do what needs to be done...and they always ahve an excuse as to why they couldnt step up to the plate and do what they promised or be a husband and father. There is always something more important going on for them. They think that we will always be there waiting. Well, I for one cannot wait forever. And neitehr can you. You are doing great Barb.
Hi Carol. Boy, your H sure is confusing! I applaud you for asking questions. That should make you feel empowered;the fact that you had the guts to ask the questions about the stock. True, you can't control the answers that come out of his mouth but you took a big step for yourself by realizing that you deserve to request the info. My H is moving back in tonight. No, things are not wonderful but after thinking about things I realized that if we stayed apart any longer then I wouldn't have any feelings left for him.It's o.k. if we end up saving the marriage & it's o.k. if we don't.That's how I really feel about it.Being apart for this past few weeks has been so good for me.I feel great. H just left to go work on some houses. He fixed my van & now I have brakes again. Now we are just waiting for the part to come in for my H2O leak. Well Carol, you are going to be fine. I really believe that!You will do what is best for you & the kids.Your H has to live with what he has caused.Talk to you later!
Good luck Barb. I hope everything works out for you. My C says that is where I need to be...where it doesnt matter to me one way or the other. Best wishes...
Hi Carol! You will get to the point where it doesn't really matter. I thought it would be a sad & lonely place but it's not. I am actually happy. H came home last night. I was worried that I would wake up this a.m. & feel all panicky & insecure. Nope, don't feel any less stronger than I did while he was gone. That is a relief for me. That means that my strength & new found happiness are for real. I didn't turn into an insecure woose just because he came back home.Like I said, we won't see much of him anyway.Question for you, you mentioned in one post that sometimes the kids try & stay awake & wait up to see their dad. Is he happy to see them then? I was just wondering how he acts with the kids. My H is never around either.He talks to the kids when he is here, but I sure wish that he would hug them or suggest to them that they do small activities together.I am not expecting much even though he moved back in last night. I am just going to continue to focus on my happiness.Hope your day goes well Carol!!!
He is surprised more than anything else when they have actually stayed awake long enough for him to get home. And since i have not been taking the kids to see him at the pizzeria he seems genuinely happy to see them. But he still doesnt come home any earlier knowing they are waiting up for him. And yes, he could be here withing a half hour of closing...he chooses to come home 2 hours after closing so he can get high and do whatever it is he does.
I am glad that you did not revert back to being clinging and insecure. I still get that way from time to time but not as much. As I continue to detach I know that will happen even less
