I'm starting to think it won't make a difference until I make peace with myself first. "Knowing it wasn't me" isn't part of making peace with myself, at least not for me.
WAS IT ME???? I know, intellectually, that the infidelity, betrayals, and rejection wasn't my fault but....my heart doesn't know for sure.
My thoughts to the letter. It has been 33 months and I still deal with this very issue. I think it is the nature of the beast to zap the BS's pyschie to the core of our being and leave us wondering for the rest of our lives.
I want someone that "I can trust" tell me and convince me that I did nothing to deserve this. I can't tell myself that ----- because I'm the one with the doubt. The only other person that knows me that well is my wife and I will never be able to believe her because she is the one that created the situation. So I live in doubt.
No help from me, just know that you are not alone.
I don't know if it will help you guys to hear from someone who is not your spouse. But I can honestly say that it was not my husband. I know my affair shook him to the core. And it made him question everything about him. And I know he still takes on some of the blame. Because for years I let him believe that, and it's been hard for him to change his mindset on that.
I've said this all along, but I believe I was destined to have an affair no matter what my husband was doing at the time. I was going to self destruct because it was all about me and what I felt I needed/wanted at the time. Even had my husband offered me those things, I wasn't going to accept them from him. I had convinced myself that he didn't care. I also convinced myself that I needed validation from someone else in order to make me "somebody." I know that's hard to understand when you're the spouse that was there, ready and willing to provide what your partner needed, yet they turned to someone else instead of you.
The flaw was in ME, not my husband. Sure he contributed to our marital problems, but he would have jumped through hoops had I asked him to. I also realize it's difficult to understand how I now see what I have in him, yet I didn't see it before. The answer to that one is I was not capable of seeing what I had in him. And didn't from the time I married him to the time of my affair. I wasn't capable of seeing what a "good man" and a "good partner" looked like.
Does he believe me when I say that it wasn't him? Deep down he knows that I see what I have in him now. And that I wasn't capable of seeing it all those years. He sees that not only because I tell him, but because I try to show him in every way that I can.
H2C
I can see why you have your doubts. It was hard for my husband to believe anything that came out of my mouth for years because as you stated, I was the one who created the whole mess. How did he know I wasn't just telling him those things to get him to stay?
I believe the key for my husband was knowing himself. He knew he was a good man and a good husband. He made mistakes, but he was always willing to work on things that needed working on. I shut down on him. That didn't make him any less the man he was. Will I ever convince him that the affair wasn't partially his fault? No, tragically I don't think I will. And I live with the knowledge every day that I did that to him and his self confidence. He still wants to blame some of the marital problems at the time on my choice to have an affair, but as far as flaws in his character, he no longer takes the blame for that.
At some point he realized that he was still who he was, even if I was not who he thought I was. The core values, decency, and intregrity he'd always had were still there. It took him years to get to that point though. And I remember the day it hit him. He said...I will not let this make me question who I am anymore. The affair forever changed his self confidence. I don't think that will ever totally come back. But as far as knowing that as a person it wasn't him, I believe he knows that now.
Jean & H2C, I watched my husband struggle with this. Intellectually he knew that I was responsible for my choices, but it took his heart a long time to catch up.
Even though I was the betrayer I had to face who I was at some point. I had no clue who I was before, during, and after my affair. Somewhere in my heart I knew I wasn't that person, or that I didn't want to be the person I'd become. Yet the ugly person staring me in the mirror every day mocked me and said I was. Struggling with who we were took us years to muddle through.
My husband finally came to see that he was always who he thought he was. I hope that the two of you will be able to one day see that in your hearts as well. You are/were not the flaw that caused your spouse to have an affair, it was their flaws that caused it.
As I said, I don't know if it helps to hear from someone who didn't pull the rug out from under you personally. But I can tell you at my house, it was not my husband.
Jean, I think toward the end of her post GT explained my rather cryptic point pretty well.
I'm working more on re-locating the real me, instead of looking at the "funhouse mirror reflection" that my exwife created and reflected back to me the past few years. I am relatively certain that I am not the person she allegedly "saw" and experienced. I think she saw and experienced what she wanted, and discarded what didn't fit what she wanted, as GT expressed.
In other words, sorting out what's me and what isn't, is more helpful to me than trying to find and have and hold a semi-successful relationship just to prove to myself that I can do it.
But, re: "sorting out what's me and what isn't, is more helpful to me than trying to find and have and hold a semi-successful relationship just to prove to myself that I can do it." Aren't you in a relationship with someone now? If so, you've hurdled something that I haven't yet. Oh, I've had one or two people express interest, but nothing's that's sparked a mutual interest.
Jean
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Feb 26, 2005 12:12 PM
regarding "head knowledge" versus "heart knowledge" --
Does anyone see any other way that one's heart can REALLY know that one is lovable (romantically) without having that confirmed by another loving relationship -- particularly after such an experience of devastating loss and rejection such as we have experienced?
Almost five years later your incredible words are just what I need to hear. You have this unique knack of writing what my husband has said over and over... only you write it and I hear it. Thank you my friend.
Now Jean... the way back to YOU to healing to being all you are meant to be is to find your passion in life and live it.
Each of us has a gift. What is yours? Once you find your gift and share it with others you will be back on the road to feeling lovable.
Unfortuanately affair recovery healing and feeling lovable are a long road. However, I know for me the more I do for others the more I feel love both for myself and the world around me. I need to help others it is who I always was and am starting to be once again. I was an abused child, and emotional pain is one I understand. I have always been too empathetic and felt I lost that when my heart was broken. I lost me. By giving to others I have started to find me again.
I don't believe findng a relationship will fill that hole, however, finding your gift and sharing it will help you to fill that broken heart.
Our boards more than anything have helped me to heal both by reading and writing. The incredible love we all receive from our friends and the healing and sharing we can give to others I believe is the beginig of return to life.
My circle of giving is rather small right now. It's just that helping my parents in my dad's dying and this unemployment mess (which is really ridiculous, but I can't get into the details) that I seem to get emotionally tired easily. As GT mentioned, I often feel as if the rug has been pulled out from under me.
It sure would be nice to have someone (adult male, umm, is that okay?) greet me with a warm hug on occasion. Not a necessity, and I won't compromise my values to get it, but it sure would be nice.
I know I'm still somewhat socially isolated -- lack of money and support of extended family really makes socialization much more difficult to maneuver --money and timewise. Now that my dad is gone things are getting a bit more on a even keel, and I'm starting to take steps again to remedy that. It's just that these steps seem to take forever.
Not sure if this will help any but here's my 2 cents. That was one question I never asked myself...if I was lovable. I think if I would have asked, especially early on I would have ended up in the words of Johnny Lee "looking for love in all the wrong places". But then it wouldn't have really been love would it? More like needing validation and that's something I had to find within myself first.
I do remember thinking if I liked me as a person. Yup, I do .
Tex
P.S Hope this makes sense cause I'm still alittle out of it.
"I'm working more on re-locating the real me, instead of looking at the "funhouse mirror reflection" that my exwife created"
Wow, Chris. This sounds like a conversation one of my sister's and I had last night. We were talking about the negativity my ex always had and how he yells a lot at my kids now. While I've always been a bubbly person, I do believe I changed a great deal while I was with him in reaction to his bitterness and anger. Not sure what he had to be bitter and angry about but I realize that I haven't had ANY conflict in my life since he's been out of it and it is REALLY, REALLY nice!
I realize now that he changed me somewhat for the worse and I feel I'm becoming a better person now. It feels quite good. The sad thing though is that my son occasionally tells me that he likes me better than dad because dad yells at him a lot. In response I try to tell him that dad does love him and that sometimes unhappy people can take their moods out on others and to try to ignore it if he possibly can. I really don't know what else to do and couldn't control it anyway.
I'm in something that I'd describe as a good, close friendship (with a woman). This is something I don't have a lot of experience with yet, because I never let myself have female friends of my own once I was married.
And yes, it is nice to get a hug and a kiss every now and then.
And yes, financial conditions and kids at home do limit one's choices a good bit. I remember telling everyone here (and myself) that I wouldn't want to be in a relationship for several more years anyway...this woman sort of sneaked up on me. So I spend a little time with her every week, getting to know each other better.
Chris, re "this woman sort of sneaked up on me. So I spend a little time with her every week, getting to know each other better." That sounds perfect, Chris. Sounds like a nice place to be, no matter what happens....
BTW... Last night I had a really vivid dream about that former boyfriend of mine (the one that posted over on Deeper about and probably shouldn't have, that I met up with in October). He's in Colorado, and I'm in Ohio. TSo tis a.m. I wrote to him -- the last I heard, a couple of months ago via email, was that his grandmother had died and his father had a stroke. So I asked him how he was. He writes back to say, among other things, that his "attempts of reconciliation with [his] wife" had failed, and divorce papers were filed.
ugh. I'd love to see him, he had been separated for more than a year. But of course with the distance I can't. And anyway, he'd be on the rebound, I suppose. But, you know what? Right now I don't care about that. I would just like his company. He's familiar, he's always been a gentleman -- we almost got married to each other, but timing and distance were a problem. Doesn't mean that we'd have to have anything serious. We do love each other as friends.
Tex, you made really good sense, even being out of it (what happened to you, anyway?)
re: "More like needing validation and that's something I had to find within myself first."
Yes, I suppose it's validating myself that I need to work on.... and living my passion (my "passion" is to find a man, ah hahahaha...:-b )
But how many songs do you hear about validating yourself? Next to zilch. Most if not all of the good ones -- those with a groove -- are all about love and/or heartbreak. WHY IS THAT? It's hard to avoid hearing all that. It's as if people have nothing better to do than "fall" in and out of love. Maybe they're all just a bunch of klutzes. :-b
Listen, I've been on my own for almost 4 years. I feel like I'm ready to burst out of my shell.
The short version is I had an accident at work and had to be taken to the ER. Well...carried to the ER. I'm on some sort pain cocktail until I get re-evaluated Mar 1st.
So your passion is to find a man huh? We're out there.
Do you know what you want/need right now? Sex? A friend? A friend with benefits? Casual companionship? A relationship?
As for there not being any good validation songs out there how about you sitting down and writing your own song?
Wow, carried to ER. I'm sorry you got hurt. Thank God for pain meds, right? I pray that you heal quickly.
"So your passion is to find a man huh? We're out there." Well, you know, not just any man. But I'm not extremely picky, either. A man can melt me with his voice, and a gentleman with good character and intelligence is quite sexy, I must say. Only the strong can be gentle, and that strength is very attractive.
What do I want and need right now? Someone in my corner. Yes, I would eventually like sex, but I am trying to reconcile that desire with being a good role model for my children. I want them to wait until marriage -- at this rate, they'll be having sex before I do, if I ever do again. But maybe I wouldn't wait until marriage? I did before, and look where that got me! Not far!
Hmmmm. I'd like a relationship with a man that goes slow. Someone to go out with a few times a month for a few months before anything deeper would develop. Someone who I felt I could call up just to talk to. How about a friend with a 'little bit' of benefits until we would both see how it goes? That would be nice.
Writing my own song....wow....I'm not creative in that area. Nice idea, tho. I also think that those songs like "I believe I can flyyyyy, I believe I can touch the skyyyyy" are rather sappy.
Every day I struggle with myself on that issue Jean, not only from this marriage/affair fiasco perspective but from every angle.
Basically I consider myself a "not _____ enough" person. Fill in the blank with any positive attribute and pretty much daily I'm saying or thinking that about myself. I'm not thin enough, not smart enough, not sexy enough, not rich enough, not polished enough, not young enough, not disciplined enough, not lovable enough, not supportive enough ...you name it.
I recently got a promotion at work and even though I had alot of people congratulating me and saying "its about time" all I could think about was "boy, I've really pulled the wool over these people's eyes haven't it?" And the next minute I'm stressing about making sure I live up to the expectations of the people who put me there.
And its been that way with this whole affair thing too. Even though intellectually I understand that I did nothing to drive my H to his decision to have an affair with someone else, I can't help searching for some inadequacy in myself. To this day I still think that if he were happier with me he wouldn't be as susceptible to the temptation of an affair. And if he wasn't happy it was my fault -- I wasn't thin enough, sexy enough, around enough, loving enough -- and this is why he looked elsewhere.
Interestingly though this same feeling has not compelled me to want to find another relationship because, honestly, if I feel this way about myself, what would being with another man accomplish? If it wasn't successful it would just prove to me that indeed, I'm not good enough. And if it was successful, I'd still feel like this guy's an idiot for wanting to be with me.
I know that the only way I'm ever going to be in a position where I could be okay with someone else is that I have to get over this "not _______ enough" mentality. I can't look for a man to raise my self-esteem. Besides not being healthy, its not fair. It wouldn't be fair to another person to have to fulfill this role.
I recommend Don Henley (especially "End of the Innocence", "Sunset Grill" which is a very wry and insightful song, and of course "Heart of the Matter"), John Mellencamp (most of the songs from his self-titled 1998 CD), Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac, and Elton John ("I'm Still Standing" especially).
Now that all those artists are well into middle age, their songs aren't about shakin' booty.
For a long while last year, I listened to a lot of jazz instrumentals. No words, just feelings flowing. Helped me get back to me. Most big cities have a "smooth jazz" station somewhere on the radio dial...and that's still free.
"A man can melt me with his voice, and a gentleman with good character and intelligence is quite sexy, I must say. Only the strong can be gentle, and that strength is very attractive"
Jean
I read what you said a few times and am thinking that is why I like my BF so much. He is very gentle yet has a great inner strength, has great character and intelligence too. Tonight I told him he had a great smile and he called me "too nice." I think it is a little sad that he thinks I'm "too nice" for complementing him, but then again, he's been through all the selfishness of his ex's affair and her continuing lying and ignorance as well and he probably didn't get compliments from her for quite a few years. I told him he was pretty nice as well and he told me we were lucky to find each other. I never knew what it would be like to have someone else like this in my life. I think what makes it so good is that we are two "givers" and our ex's were takers. He is so unselfish and this is a very foreign feeling to me :>) I think I've found a one in a million.
I just wanted to tell you all that it isn't YOU that was the problem in your marriages. I'm not saying we don't all do things wrong in marriage but sometimes we were just married to the wrong person - I'm sure of that now in my case. I'm so happy without him.
Jane
I think you will notice this more and more when you are ready to be on your own. You have many good attributes and at this site we've all seen them. I hate the fact that these selfish people can somewhat brain-wash us with their crazy behavior and make us doubt ourselves. When I was going to counseling, she told me that many victims of affairs blamed themselves far too often.
Charlie :>)
This message has been edited by charlie288 on Feb 27, 2005 3:29 AM
I, too, struggled, mostly in college, with not being "enough" in most aspects. As I may have mentioned before, I'm the last of 8 children of a high-achieving family and for a long, long time I felt I had to play "catch up" to all of their accomplishments. Funny thing is that my former H, whom I met in college, would tell me how wonderful I was, how my parents should be so proud to have such a wonderful daughter, how I was quite a "catch" et cetera. Even a funnier thing is how that all stopped completely and what I thought was love and admiration began to turn into disdain within a matter of months after we married. And seemingly all of a sudden I didn't clean enough, wasn't smart enough, wasn't nice enough, thin enough, didn't cook well enough..... The turn around still amazes me when I think about it, which really isn't much. I just want to concentrate on me now. And not making the same mistake twice.
Jean
Current Topic - I want to KNOW that it really wasn't me......
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