Not sure if this belongs here or on one of the other boards...but here goes.

One of my biggest issues is learning to trust appropriately. This is a very difficult thing for me in general. I'm realizing that it's even more so because of the damage done by my ex and his multiple A's.

I figured out why I became angrier and angrier the closer to home I got...here's the story.

A friend introduced me to a man, who asked me out, and I went on my first date while in Illinois. We went out a couple times, and a nicer man you wouldn't meet. Very open, family centered, great sense of humor, honest...etc. We have much in common, and really enjoyed ourselves. Last date was the night before I left Illinois, Thursday.

So, I'm driving along, and these sneaky thoughts intrude. Geez, is he really divorced, or did I just go out with a married man? Was he telling the truth about this or that? Now, nothing he did or said indicated that he was anything but honest. However, my mind went to all these places that were sooooo unpleasant. It was horrible, wondering if this nice man had told me all kinds of lies. All connected to the lies and deceits I lived with during all my ex's A's, particularly during the past 4-5 years...what I've begun calling my "awakening".

I've read just enough about infidelity and PTSD to know that I'll deal with these issues for a long time...maybe forever...probably forever. I'll learn to cope, as you all have said.

I'm angry about the extra baggage that will make having a future relationship so much more difficult...as evidenced with my response to this man. Relationships - trust - allowing myself to be vulnerable - taking emotional risks are extremely difficult for me...and now this. I know that when I enter a relationship in the future, I'll have to talk about all of this, work through it. I'm angry about that. I'm angry that earning my trust will be that much more difficult because of my ex's betrayals, lies. Yes, we all have to earn one another's trust, but this just seems so...I don't know...don't even have words for it yet.

I thought about how difficult it will be, not only for me, but for a partner to have a relationship with me, and thought of something Charlie said...something her boyfriend said about making his job (i.e. relationship issues) more difficult because of her ex's unfaithfulness. That I continued to trust such an untrustworthy person as my ex still boggles my mind. I don't want to ever do that again.

How will I know? All of the mind games I did on my way home made me very aware that I don't know how to tell if a man is trustworthy or not. Because the reality is that I'm still questioning whether or not my date was really telling me the truth. No gut feelings that he's not to be trusted, he was very sincere. However, I know how manipulative my ex was, how manipulative a WS can be when engaging in that type of behavior. Suspicions, paranoia....egads...this sucks.

I want validation. I want my feelings not to be minimized and discarded. I want to be heard. The reality is that those things aren't going to come from my ex. I don't even know that I'd feel better if he did validate/hear me. I'll still have to deal with the mistrust of others as fallout from my relationship/marriage with this man.

Will I take the risk to love again? I don't know...I like to think that I will. But I fear driving someone away because of all this baggage. Will I walk through that fear someday? Most likely. I know that I enjoy being part of a couple, don't need it, but want that in my life again ...someday.

How the heck do I know when I'm ready to start dating? I know I've asked that before, but with this most recent experience, I'm wondering how I'll do this. Will I question the honesty and integrity of every man I meet? My first reaction to all of these thoughts was that I'd never be ready because I'm never going to be the same again...always questioning. Then I thought of some of the things that RW has said about needing to discuss what fidelity is within a relaionthip, what's acceptable and not, that we need to protect ourselves with boundaries. The idea of risking being hurt again, well...that's a place I won't be going for awhile. Certainly not ready for the possibility of rejection, working out stuff like this...I need the clarity for myself first. Need to focus on me, which I knew anyway...was just reinforced/validated.

Anger...yeah, and justifiably so. However, I feel sadness too that I've lost something here. Not sure what, but I feel the loss as well. I kept trying to look past the anger at this sadness, just to feel it...yeah, Chris...I'm learning LOL. I'm unclear what the sadness is connected to though. Loss of innocence? I don't know, but believe I lost that innocence a long time ago...before my ex. I know that my walls are breaking down, all the denial and defenses I built up while married to my ex. Survival. My marriage was about survival. How sad that is. Survival and burying any sense of self to maintain the facade of a marriage that was so dysfunctional and sick underneath that facade.

So, time...that nasty four-letter word...it'll take time.

Cindy

Cindy-

I can totally relate to the idea of < Survival and burying any sense of self to maintain the facade of a marriage that was so dysfunctional and sick underneath that facade.> As the Phoenix rises from the ashes, so can we.

As far as trust, well the one person I need to develop trust in is myself. I need to trust that if I make a wrong choice in a boyfriend, I will have the strength and courage to deal with that wrong choice.

In the long run, when nurture our inner selves as whole, valid people we can deal with the poor choices of others and ourselves. We can better accept humanity as a whole.

Hope I'm making some sense here. Respect yourself, nurture yourself. The trust will grow.

TLMM

Are you sure you are ready to date??
<br />Part of the process of recovery for me was separating what HE did with what other male species does....just my 2 cents

Wow. I was gonna write something like what MM wrote, but I realized I couldn't possibly say it any better.

Cindy, all it's about is you now. And it does take time and effort to process all of the crap.

I have found it very helpful to just ignore the idea of dating and relationship forming. I'm in much the same place as you: It may happen someday, but I'm not that interested right now. I'm carrying too much "stuff" and that can't possibly be very interesting to anyone.

That doesn't mean I don't try to meet people and spend time together.

I just don't invest any other meaning in the fun that I have talking to people.

Chris.

>>>I just don't invest any other meaning in the fun that I have talking to people. <<<<

Finally a definition of "dating" I can agree with. Thank you Chris.


And as you walk you make your path Kat

Thanks for the replies folks.

TLMM said: “As far as trust, well the one person I need to develop trust in is myself.” Yes, I believe that too TLMM, and work toward that daily. I don’t yet feel I’m in a place where I feel particularly strong or courageous, or where I trust what I know, who I am, etc. My ex invalidated my feelings, gut instincts, and self for so long that I began to internalize what he told me. You know, all the lies and deceits I attempted to confront…apparently, I wasn’t able to distinguish what I was feeling…he had to do that for me; nor was I able to tell right from wrong…he also had to do that for me; neither could I “know” something in my heart and gut without his input to the inaccuracies of that “knowing”; and even with proof in my hands, I couldn’t understand how hard it was for him to disconnect from these women he involved himself with – and besides, after a time…he hoped I simply wouldn’t mind. My heart and head aren’t together yet on these issues…I know intellectually that my ex was (is) full of shit. After all these years of denying my own reality (on top of his denials), my heart/emotions haven’t caught up to my intellect yet. Stories such as those I read about within these boards encourage me that my heart and head will meld one day. I’m working on it.

KIM asked: “Are you sure you are ready to date??” No way in hell am I ready to date, Kim. That became very clear to me with all of this mental meandering. I’m not in a place where I can separate what my ex did, and what others may or may not do. I guess you could say these dates with this man were sort of trial runs…of a sort. Going out made me very aware that I need to focus on my own healing for awhile.

CHRIS said: “I’m carrying way too much ‘stuff’ and that can’t possibly be very interesting to anyone.” Chris, what I’m experiencing is not very interesting to me, but just downright frustrating and mind-boggling at times. While I’m terrified of taking risks, the reality is that I do it…all the time. Generally, though, I take those emotional risks with the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, and repeatedly. These behaviors were certainly reinforced within my marriage. So, I’m working on establishing healthy boundaries that allow me to feel safe, though still open.

Growth is hard work. Asking for help, and sharing my emotional life with others are two of the most difficult things I’m having to overcome. Trust? I’m trusting that I’ll be OK through the sharing I do on these boards. That’s a big step for me.

I suppose I want some reassurance that there will come a time when I won’t do these emotional/mental acrobatics. I know from past experiences/traumas that I’ll never be the same, so I don’t expect that. I only hope to grow from this experience (as I have from others)…not stay stuck in a sick, dysfunctional place that garners only pain and sorrow (as I have with others). I don’t want to project my insecurities from my marriage onto others…male or female friends. I worry about doing that…becoming a bitter, angry woman…much like my own mother…who keeps a cold distance from those she loves, and who love her. Nope, don’t want to go there…thank you very much. Another issue…another post…my Dad’s (and Mom’s) A’s throughout their 30+year marriage…and consequences to us all.

I’m off to swim with the GrandBumbies. It’s good to be home!

Cindy

>>I suppose I want some reassurance that there will come a time when I won’t do these emotional/mental acrobatics. <<

I can't reassure you that there will come a time when YOU won't do these emotional/mental acrobatics.

I can tell you that the day came for ME, and that reading others stories here helped me to get there.

(The day was sometime between June 3 and yesterday. Really.)

Like you, I had to "decompress" and "deprogram" from a spouse who told me how I felt...based on how SHE wanted me to be/feel. I had to learn to trust myself. It took a couple of years of emotional and physical separation.

Chris.

hi cindy

firstly 'snap' i picked up on the same line "I suppose I want some reassurance that there will come a time when I won’t do these emotional/mental acrobatics."

Hon there are no guarantess or reasurrance that you wont ever have the acrobatics again in the future. that is just part of being with someone, regardless of our experiences, when we meet a new person and move to share more with them there are always those little emotional doubts. when another person comes along, dont allow you h's treatment of you to blow normal 'fears' out of proportion.


the other thought i had was that given we cannot read another's mind the only person we can trust is ourselves and our own actions/reactions. so go out with people, friends, potential 'beaus' etc, but trust your own feelings about what YOU want, no matter who the other person is. i know you will say, but why invest if i am going to get hurt again?. well we have to invest a little bit in other people, but if we trust ourselves first, give ourselves some normal and positive boundaries, this may reduce the risk of getting hurt again. YOU have choices mate.

i know you dont feel like you can make choices etc, but you can and you are, as simple as what to eat, drink or wear through to who you like to hang out with!. you are doing it, and they arent all bad choices i am sure!.

i guess i am saying there are no guarantees, but if you are clear with yourself about what you want or dont want, then that gives you some guideance doesnt it.

and if the worst thing happened in the future and you felt tricked by another person, it wouldnt be your husband's doing, but the other persons and it wouldnt be because of YOU!

hugs and hope these quick thoughts help
kath