Well, there's a reason one my friends nicknamed me Turtle when we were in the 8th grade. I'm pretty slow at times...yep, that I am.
I am angry, and rightfully so...about all of this...the A's, the subsequent denials, the invalidations and minimizations, how all of this led to the end of my oh-so-sick marriage, and so very much more.
However,...yep...however, I feel utterly and horribly hurt and betrayed by my kids, who seem to have accepted this woman into their (and my grandchildren's) lives, and participate in activities with her and my ex. How can I feel that way when they don't really know about the history of A's...and how this woman wormed her way into my ex's life (and mine) while we were in MC? I don't know, but I do.
My daughter made a comment to me several months ago about the OW and my ex dating (publicly) so quickly, that "your relationship was over a long time ago anyway." How does that justify any of this? I can't wrap my mind around it. When I said that I had a problem with her spending time w/OW and ex (yes, I opened mouth and inserted foot...tho I didn't say any more than that), her response to me was, "I don't understand why this is a problem." I gently disengaged myself from the conversation.
My son told me recently that he has spent time w/ex and OW, and that "she's nice." I felt my heart drop to the pit of my stomach. It was a horrible feeling that I chose to ignore. At the time.
These things have a way of coming back to haunt me...as in the inappropriate rage I felt last Saturday. It wasn't all anger, but such sadness and pain that I couldn't begin to touch the betrayal underlying it all.
I know they're not mind readers. I don't want to tell my kids about all this crap. Am I supposed to so they understand why I feel the way I do? I want them to understand how I feel, and why, but just don't know how appropriate it would be to tell them any of this. So, I don't say anything. And I'm not sure that's not doing more damage to me in the long run.
Thanks for listening, and for your patience,
Cindy
This message has been edited by TurtleShell on Jul 8, 2005 6:03 PM
I'm going through something similar. My ex called me Tuesday to tell me he was going out of town for a week and reminded me to call his cell phone if I needed anything. I said, "Oh yeah? Going on vacation?" He said that "they" were going to see his sister graduate from college next week. Immediately, I said, "Oh, your new insta family?!"
I don't know why I asked. I knew that his GF was going - along with his daughter and my ex inlaws... One big, happy, flippin' family!! It hit me like a ton of bricks. I said, "WOW.. you've plucked me out and planted her in my spot."
I feel replaced. Totally... and I KNOW that's what happens when people get divorced... but I didn't WANT them to accept her with open arms, so willingly. It cheapens my relationship with them, I think. If ONE TIME someone in his family would have called him on his relationship-hopping ways, maybe he wouldn't be the cheating rat bastard he is.
I hate it. It stinks. I wish they had more loyalty to ME - and I know, logically, that that isn't fair... I'm still working through it. I hope this goes away with time, too.
Monica
This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot
"look i know he is your dad and she might be a nice person, but your father was not nice to me by having an affair with her and destroying our marriage. sorry that in your eyes i cant seem to cope with that, but he/they hurt me and it still hurts. I hope he doesnt now do to her what he did to me, it seems to be a hobby with him."
you have a right to express your feelings, dont ever forget that.
It sounds like your kids are older. Why not tell them? In the same sentence, you could say that you don't want them to hate their father for something he did to mostly you (that is if they were older when he had his A) but you don't really want to hear how much they like this woman that helped hurt you so badly. I tell my son how I don't want him to dislike his dad for something his dad did to me. He knows that dad has been very dishonest with me. He even knew directly after ex's affair that he had been with another girl and the only reason I told him that was because he overheard something he shouldn't have, he witness my extreme anger over it, and because he directly asked me - I did not elaborate what being with her had meant though. He still has a good relationship with dad and I keep telling him that just because dad did this to me doesn't mean he will do mean things to him. One day I think I will even tell him the whole truth if he wants to know.
I find it very difficult at different times with my son. The other night BF and I had dinner together and the kids ate a tad earlier b/c they couldn't wait until BF got there to eat a little later. Anyway, I guess not having him (son) sitting down to dinner together with us and seeing us together chatting made him quite a bit jealous. I see this happening when BF has his daughter with us and my kids aren't around as well. Kids tend to think that a boyfried or girlfriend are taking their places or that we will love the BF or BG more than them. My son said something to the affect that we were ganging up on him b/c he completely misheard something that I said. Anyway, I felt really bad and had a talk with him last night and this morning both about how important he and brother were and how BF will never take their place and how much I will always love them regardless of whether or not I may love BF as well. I also told him that I really tried to make our marriage work when I was with his dad and that I didn't just give him up easily to find another man (so he didn't think I'd do the same with him and brother), that I offered to go to couseling to try to fix things but that his dad didn't want to go. That was the truth and I don't feel bad about telling him.
It is very hard to know whether or not your saying the right thing all the time, but I can see that after I talked to him, he feels better and acts different and more open so I feel I did the right thing.
I feel the same way. I drove past ex's one night and there sitting on the couch like we did so many nights was ex and his girlfriend. He looked just the same, the house is similar to ours, the only difference is he booted me out and put her there in my spot.
but we know it won't work for them in the long run don't we.........
Why do you torture yourself like that? Perhaps that was long ago but is seems that it would only hurt you and not help??? It makes me angry at your ex just thinking about it. Ughh!!!
How about being a bit truthful with your kids? Not the whole lot, but what about saying you feel hurt that they've taken to her so easily, and that there's a lot they don't know?
What does everyone else think - cos Sandy aint got kids so doesn't really know..........
Charlie it was a few months ago and as stupid as it sounds I think it helped. I was struggling with the process of trying to let go and I think recently I have found an inner peace I didn't have before. I feel really good lately.
It hurt like hell, I cried and was upset for days after but then there was this resolve......to never have to put up with this crap again. In a weird way I think it gave me that extra bit of strength I needed.
Well, I talked w/both kids. Without going into any information regarding why I feel the way I do, I did tell them how I felt...much like you suggested Sandy. It didn't go well w/my daughter...she is so very defensive...lots of other issues involved in our difficulties communicating. She believes I feel this way because I'm not dating anyone myself, and he is. I gently extricated myself from the conversation, as she just doesn't understand, and feels the problem is between her dad and I, which...it is. I don't know how else to go about this w/her. My son was more open to hearing what I had to say about my feelings, but also says that he's not going to ask his dad to choose between him and the OW. NO...not was I was intimating, or asking...didn't ask anything of either one of them, but simply expressed my feelings about this, while respecting their boundaries to not have information about what happened between their dad and I.
I'm finished talking with them about this issue. Just done. It will never be resolved, or validated by them, and I'm tired of feeling like I'm wrong to feel this way. They want to spend time w/their dad, and aren't willing to say, "Not with OW present" (they don't care one way or the other whether she's there or not, she's always there, and it's my exh's and my issue...their position). Again, I didn't ask that of them...but...you know what? I wanted them to say that they would establish that boundary with my exh so I wouldn't feel hurt over this. Validation. Concern. Loyalty. Shit...too much to deal with here. They're not going to take care of me...that's my job. So I need to figure out how to do that without what...any validation that all of this is just wrong...for lack of a better word. Just don't know how at this point. I've always been the type to talk things through, and don't feel I can do that with my kids in this issue. So much they don't know...and don't want to know...again, mine and their dad's issues.
I'm so tired of all of this. Feel like I have to stuff my own emotions because of all of this crap. Am trying to be healthier...in so many ways...and succeeding in some. I'm just tired. Hated spending the day around my exh yesterday...one of the Grands birthdays. He didn't bring the OW, but she drove by several times...we were at a park near my son's house. So, she wasn't there, but she was present. Gross. I still enjoyed the time w/kids, Grands, friends and other family...just felt tense.
What do I want? I want to be heard...I want some validation...I want clear boundaries...tough shit.
I think maybe for the kids, it's about their survival. On some level they might be worried about their relationship with their dad. If they confront him about any issue regarding the two of you he might choose to ally himself with the OW and forsake his relationship with them.
My parents divorced when I was three. My mom was pregnant with my younger brother and another woman in town was pregnant by my dad at the same time. My dad abandoned all of us to be with the OW. He leflt my mom with NOTHING. My mom was destitute: no money, no car and no education. In 1956 life was a bitch for a young 21 yr. old girl in this predicament.
My mother became BITTER and hated my dad and the OW. I don't blame her. She cursed and spat and called them both every name in the book, and still does to this day 47 yrs. later. She reviles them with venom if the subject of A's comes up.
She's gotten on with her life, but the bitterness destroyed so much for her. I hope that we (anyone here), can get to the point of "letting go". I know it is such a battle to let go of bitterness, hurt, and lack of being
validated.
Sometimes we as individuals, are all we have. Sometimes there isn't anyone who can fix anything for us but ourselves.
I am going to be a "mother" to myself.
I hope I have made sense here, and that you know others struggle with similar feelings.
"They want to spend time w/their dad, and aren't willing to say, "Not with OW present" (they don't care one way or the other whether she's there or not, she's always there, and it's my exh's and my issue...their position). Again, I didn't ask that of them...but...you know what? I wanted them to say that they would establish that boundary with my exh so I wouldn't feel hurt over this."
Cindy
Honestly, why should your son and daughter stay away from OW? What I mean here is that they think you are just jealous and don't know the background of him and her cheating with each other. If I were your daughter and you wanted me to stay away from some woman dating my dad that was separated from my mother, I would think you were jealous too. Now, if I were your daughter and knew that they had cheated to break up my parents marriage, that would be entirely different. Way different.
The only problem I see here is that they are already friends with her so telling them now may not have the intended affect anyway. If they had known about the cheating before they got close to the OW, they may have felt differently.
Just my two cents here. I do understand your hurt over this but unless your kids know the whole truth, they will not understand why you don't like her being around them so in a way it only hurts you all around - not fair is it?
Seeing my grandkids dealing with two sets of parents they often seem caught in the middle. They want to like everyone, they are little peacemakers and just want to be loyal to everyone it seems. When my daughter has a conflict with her X, and believe me there have been HUGE conflicts with her X (jail, alcoholism, you name it)it takes enormous amounts of patience for her to still let the kids visit, etc. The kids do not see their dad as an alcoholic or a jailbird but just their dad who will always be their dad. And kids really have no power in these situations...my grandkids have to live with their mom/stepfather and with their dad/stepmother during different times of the week and adapt to two completely different households. I don't think I could do that. Sometimes I see the sadness in their eyes when their schedules are being negotiated--it breaks my heart. As hard as it is to set our adult differences aside, we have to do it for the beautiful children.
You're all very correct in just about all that was said. If my kids confronted their dad, he would drop them like a hot cake. He's never had much of a relationship with them in the past, really has no idea who they are. His pursuit of a relationship w/them recently is very new. That's their relationship...not my place to get in the middle of it...and I don't. They are trying to maintain some connection to him, and he seems willing to do that w/them at this time.
I know this is hard for my kids...and the Grands. My grandson, in particular, as I raised him in the same house as my exh...for the first almost 3 years of his life. Trystan is very confused about where his PaPa is in relation to me, and has made a couple of comments about the OW being at PaPa's. My exh has finally taken the time to have Trystan at his house, which is a good thing because, while confusing to him, Trystan needs to spend time w/my exh.
How can I expect my kids to see my feelings about the OW as anything but jealousy? I can't. That's a big part of my frustration with all of this. I can't because they don't know the whole story, and see the surface for what it appears to be to them.
Mothering myself? Nurturing me? I recognize that I'm the only one who can do that. That's always been so. I just get tired. I am tired. This past week has been difficult. I can still "see" my mountains, the beautiful sunsets, and surrounding beauty of where I live (god...I am so very grateful for that...and it's no small thing for me), but I've been in a bad place for a few days. I'm just trying to feel the real feelings that I'm experiencing, without getting sort of lost in them. I'm finished talking with them about all of this. It's a circular proposition at best, and I can't do this to myself anymore. I'm just tired. This too shall pass.
hi cindy, just catching up on posts here and wondering how you are doing, you certainly sounded tired the other day hon.
remember, just tell your kids the facts, or rather you take on stuff, who cares how they interpret it, eg that you are jealous, they will do with the information what they want or how best they can deal with it. but it is important that you get to say how you feel.
yep it is tough on the kids and the grandies, but all we can do as the big people is try not to 'demonise' the 'increasing' number of people in their family. sometimes that is pretty hard on us, but if we focus on them and how much they see and understand, we can only do our best cant we.
I was/am tired Kath. I've been sick for a couple days, my immune system is shot to...well, shot. All the emotional stuff has taken a toll lately. I need a rest, but have made some great progress through this horrendous pile of crap, so don't want to stop what I'm doing at the moment.
I'm trying, and succeeding most days, to stay with my feelings, and really feel them. I'm really not very good at this, as I've avoided them most of my life. When I feel this way, in the past, I have had a tendency to find an excuse to put it all away. I refuse to do that this time. So, I'm just trying to trudge along and deal with it all. I'm very fortunate to have a wonderful IC who helps guide me through it all. I try not to overburden others with much that is happening...but sometimes, I just get tired. Still not good at reaching out to you all...to anyone. Have kept all of this locked up for so many years now. I have to let it out slowly, because I feel so very overwhelmed by the feelings of betrayal...then I turn it on myself. How the hell could I not see what was happening right under my nose...sometimes in my own house? I really do try to stay away from that kind of thinking, and am successful most of the time.
I've been writing about...I hesitate to call it DDAy...I'm so uncertain what day is my DDay...but the DDay that began waking me up. This is the one that matters most to me. Four years ago this September, right after our anniversary...then again within a year after that...I couldn't deny what was happening in our life together any longer, nor could I ignore the impact on my emotional/mental/physcial well-being. Recognizing the pattern within our relationship this past...when?...April I think...happened right on this board when I wrote our history...took that awareness to yet another level.
I've been reading the posts here, and relating to so much about DDays, finally touching those feelings and how completely devastated I was.
I don't know...I'm babbling now. Yes, I'm ok...Yes, I'm tired...Yes, I'll be fine...as will my children and Grands. They'll figure things out for themselves. I need to concentrate on my own mental/emotional health and well-being...I'm learning to do that anyway. Thank you for your kind words and caring.
this stuff is hard work isnt it. i remember getting to a time when i decided i was sick and tired of being sick and tired! i also found all the self questioning etc etc boring after a while.
so i stopped thinking and dealing with it all. not completely, sometimes just for five minutes, sometimes an hour, sometimes a day.
i gave myself time off from the crap, in time it helped because a)i filled the non A thinking time, with other stuff and b) because i could focus on other stuff for abit, i became weller.
but it all took time.
hugs to you and remember it is ok to give youself a day off ok.
Thanks Kath, I will. I did, actually, do some of that today. Felt rather good. The "fog" (of a different nature mind you) is lifting. Just had a bad week or so.
