Well, I waited for her to try to join me in a search to see if we could find anything to save and all she did was continue to lie and betray. Her IC appointments even had become dates.

I wish her the best, I really do. I know what isn't the best and it's any kind of relationship with her man Cooter.

Please send your best thoughts to my children.

I'm sorry Moe.

Ya know when someone keeps hitting you in the face with a 2x4 its time to get out of the line of fire.

I've been where you are bro. I remember a very long time ago someone gave me some painful but eye-opening advice. I was her safety net, that's all. Kinda like Linus(from Peanuts) with his blanket. She would give me just "enough" to keep me hanging on.

If I didn't think I deserved more then why should she? Not to mention I was in the mind-frame that I was giving her chance after chance. What I failed to realize was she wasn't asking for a chance.

Boundries Moe...you have to set boundries. Not to teach her a lesson or punish her or shock her but to show yourself you can make it without her. Comes back to that self-respect "thang".

Hang in there buddy.

Tex

Ouch! That 2x4 hurts.

Yeah Tex, what you said about the safety net makes a lot of sense. Not only that but I also feel that I was what made the fantasy fling a fun ride for her. Someone had to watch the kids. She had to have the thrill of sneaking on someone. She had to have the drama. There will be the issue of Gomer's wife, so there will still be thrills and chills, but to be the single OW messing around with another woman's husband sure seems like less fun to me. But what do I know?

I am worthy of respect and deserved hers. For some piece of white trash to get all of her respect while I offered to do my part to save our family for too long and got nothing but disrespect... well, no more. I can't respect myself by allowing myself to be disrespected.

I'm sorry for the mistakes I made in my marriage, and I made a lot of them. But I deserved better than this.

You said<<<But what do I know?>>> You know a helluva lot more than you give yourself credit for.

Somewhere throughout this mess we have to start listening to our logical side and not feel so much with our emotions.

Sounds to me from your posts you are starting to listen, not to her, but to yourself. That's HUGE step buddy in the right direction.

Tex

Mo
I haven't been in touch in a while. Been reading some but not writing. Too much pain and rawness. I'll write more when I get it together a little more. I want to wish you luck and echo what Tex says. I respect you for finding your boundaries. I know how hard that is as I am still clinging to threads in trying to keep open "possibilities" in my relationship by continuing communication while my WS continues her love affair with OM and is now the OW in his marriage. You do deserve better, and I know I do too. I just haven't gotten up the courage - or gotten beat up enought yet - to just walk away.
Keep your head up. You can begin to feel good about yourself again. You clearly already have started that path.

-Rob

"Focus on what you have, not what you have lost"

You guys are great guys with so much to offer. Endings are so very difficult but everybody on this board has suffered through an ending of some kind and is stronger because of it. I have a quote on my desk from Wayne Dyer that says:

Practice enjoying
the present moment
rather than using it
up consumed with
guilt over the past
or worry about the
future. Refuse to
allow any thoughts
based on your past
to define you.

Hope you can find some peace from the dark thoughts. Both you guys are very bright stars who have a lot of shining left to do. Lots of folks care about you here, including me. I enjoy the things you both write; I have missed your insights lately, keep posting please.


Judy

(((((((((Moe))))))))

I am truly sorry that it came down to this. She is a fool! I know how much you love/ed her. I know she will always be in your heart but she will no longer take up so much room. You have a huge heart!!! I know you will eventually find someone who will love you and respect, and treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

You and the children are in my prayers,
Carol~

It's just the realization that it is really happening that hits you in the gut. Endings are sad. The 10 years made a mockery, and the fact that maybe they were from the start. That we were never supposed to be together.

I knew it would come to this eventually and even though I felt emotionally ready to go, it is when you face it that it's going to hurt.

I know brighter days are ahead. I just have to wait for them to get here.

Endings are hard and people rarely walk away from 10+ year marriages without taking a few too many gut punches, IMHO. From what I've seen, people rarely walk away from their marriages easily. I'm not too happy when I hear someone blame high rates of divorce on people who give up too easily (even though I was guilty of believing that in a previous life). I don't know too many people who give up too easily on marriage. From what I've seen, most of people take too many shots upside our heads with a 2 x 4 before they get the message.

One psychologist (Frank Pittman?) once wrote that marriage tends to be very stable. It takes alot to upset the apple cart. That's a good thing, IMHO. It means that if you want to get rid of a wife or husband, you're gonna have to work at it. Even an affair, by itself, often won't do the job. You need to have an affair and then do something more, such as making it clear that you don't give a wit about your partner's pain.

Also, it took me along time to "let go". It didn't happen all at once. I vacillated for a long time. A few years back, I was mad at myself for taking too long. More recently, I've decided that I probably couldn't have done it any other way.

Quinn

Quinn

"A few years back, I was mad at myself for taking too long. More recently, I've decided that I probably couldn't have done it any other way."

I would say the same goes for me but my poor marriage didn't just start after his A (as I thought it had immediately after his A), I hadn't realized how much it had started when his addictions started years ago, and after we had kids was when I started seeing it the most. I think I started losing love for him way before his A and just never realized it until we split up and I realized how happy I was without him and his antics.

Charlie

This place and all of you have been a Godsend for me in these months. And I don't intend to go away either. I hope as I get stronger in the months ahead that I can help others.

It was just a sad day. It doesn't help that a weekend out of town with good friends fell through so now what am I going to do.

We talked, I know that for now the OM will still be the more significant person in her life. Really he has been all along. I've been left for someone directly before so this won't be that different except for how I felt about this woman.

We will be friends in spite of it all one day. We are moving toward dealing with the finances and I will be finding me a place to move into within the next couple of weeks. I imagine a moment of peace setting in once I get into the new place and my daughters are there with me. I expect me and the kids will do a lot of things together and maybe be even closer.

I enjoyed single life and was very content when I met her. I know that it would have been infinitely more difficult for any other woman to have pulled me away from that. It will be different now but I'm sure it will still be good. It is just hard to imagine a love so intense at one time dying to find myself back there. If this one didn't work, how could any?

Moe,

Don't give up on love! Love offers us hope. And you will find someone some day. But I agree, that after a divorce caused by infidelity, it is hard to trust in some one again. We tend to guard our hearts, as we should. But I think you will know when it's right. Don't let what she did to you define who you are! You are better than that

Take Care,
Carol~

Thank you, Carol.

This just felt so right for so long. When my first wife left me for another, and maybe it was the relative maturity she showed in doing so, I didn't lose the ability to trust. Love? I didn't really think of it after that divorce. Love was something I missed but not something I looked for. It just happened when this woman came into my life.

I think of how my psyche was not damaged by my first divorce and now I think how can it not be by this one. Certainly a difference in how much I loved. How can a love so intense that dies not affect the trust in love?

<<How can a love so intense that dies not affect the trust in love?>>

Well Moe, I dont have any answers to that. But I will say that usually one partner seems to love the other more or less than the other, maybe not in the begining when we ahve those "in-love" feelings. I am talking about when we reach the "lasting, mature-love stage". It always seems that one gives more in the realtionship than the other. That intense love that you felt for her just wasnt the same as what she felt for you at that point, and Lord do I know how much that hurts. I think the key to it all is an equal love. When someone loves you with the same intensity that you love them, I think that is what facilitates lasting love. Two people in the relationship with the same idea of what love is and are committed to each other will not allow someone else to come between them. Not to say they may not be tempted, lol, but they realize that what they have is worth more than a romp in the hay and they just dont go there.

I believe it is low self-esteem followed by a lack of committment, and not a lack of love, that seems to sway the wayward spouse away from the marriage, in my opinion. I do believe that someone can love you intensely and still have an A. Afterall, an A is not about us, the BS and our feelings, it is about the WS and how they feel about themselves. Yes, we may have made mistakes in the marriage just like everyone else, but we never strayed. We remained committed and faithful. The WS will find any excuse to justify their actions, but we know better! We know they loved us, maybe the A just took away some of that love from us so they had some to give to someone else, because they lack committment and self confidence. I really dont know how it works in their minds, but they rationalize, and rewrite history, as you well know. So what I am saying is don't doubt that she loved you because she did, but to what capacity...who knows? She doesnt even know herself! She is lost in the fog and cannot see anything clearly for what it is or was...not the past...not the present...not even the future!

I have a lot of integrity and I will not allow my H's actions and bad choices sway my beliefs in what is right and my feelings about love. I am better than that

Take Care,
Carol~

<<...usually one partner seems to love the other more or less than the other, maybe not in the begining when we ahve those "in-love" feelings. I am talking about when we reach the "lasting, mature-love stage". It always seems that one gives more in the realtionship than the other. That intense love that you felt for her just wasnt the same as what she felt for you at that point, and Lord do I know how much that hurts. I think the key to it all is an equal love. When someone loves you with the same intensity that you love them, I think that is what facilitates lasting love. Two people in the relationship with the same idea of what love is and are committed to each other will not allow someone else to come between them>>

<<How can a love so intense that dies not affect the trust in love?>>

I can relate so well to what Carol says. I consciously worked to maintain my feelings of love. But I think I was the only one doing it. All the notes, tokens, surprise emails, cards & flowers helped me keep my feelings of love current and well-nourished. It was unequal and apparently grew more so over time. I believe that love is a choice, not just some magic that happens out of the blue. You choose acts of love and that keeps the love alive in you. She wasn't giving and allowed the flame to burn low. I just didn't see it becasue of how much love I felt for her. One of the "big" books talked about such inequality contributing to vulnerability to an affair by one of the partners.

I also like this passage regarding mature love from "Sucess is the Quality of Your Journey". Hope it comes out OK



"Focus on what you have, not what you have lost"

How true, Rob.

It's not passion for my STBXW and her banjo playing kid from Deliverance. It is drama. The sad thing for everyone is that I believe she is content to be the single tramp on the side for this guy while he continues to provide the drama of his continued cheating. It will last for a little while, maybe a long while, but drama itself is exhausting. Aren't we exhausted by it? Naturally sooner because we didn't seek drama, we just got sucked into it and I am drained by it.

Then maybe he will dump his wife and they will run on the fumes of infatuation. Who knows maybe they would be a perfect couple sharing the stink of their now dramaless infatuation. Who knows the drama may always be there because of the stench around them.

But yes, my trying had become pain. Every moment of affection a temporary fix before the pain returned. The confusion of her affection meaning she was being fulfilled by her drama soaked infidelity.

And maybe, just maybe, while she breaks a nail on his oversized shiney belt buckle holding his Rustler jeans up I will be looking across a cup of coffee at a woman who knows that Argentina is a South American country instead of answering 'No, my name is not Tina'.

You got it Rob...exactly my point

Take Care,
Carol~

Moe said: And maybe, just maybe, while she breaks a nail on his oversized shiney belt buckle holding his Rustler jeans up I will be looking across a cup of coffee at a woman who knows that Argentina is a South American country...

LOL.

At least you have a bit of humor left. A good sign.

Judy

Humor has always been my strongest point, except my integrity in spite of my flaws. Watch out, because freedom from this sick marriage will see me here unleashing the fury of my boundless humor. Be afraid... be very afraid.

Last night saw another tirade of making me feel like dirt so she didn't have to. I don't deserve it and never have this past 7 or 8 months as I have gotten it from her. And I think of all the things I could scream at her that she actually does deserve, and I haven't.

I think of how she explained to me that I can't say I would never have an affair because she always knew she wouldn't. She says her therapist, if she has actually seen one, says that this happens and no one can say they wouldn't if faced with the opportunity because of circumstances. Then I think back. This isn't her first one, although probably was while with me.

This person is and always has been her. I think back to the night before our first official date and a married man pulled up in front of her house as I sat there on her front porch. He was a known "dog" anyway. She went out and talked to him, and before she sent him on his way, I sat there deciding to go or stay. I always went before but this time I stayed. I chose wrong. I have learned more about that relationship, particularly in the last few months, and I realized something. This affair with a married man was not an anomoly of circumstance, this is who she is. That if she wants or feels she needs something, she doesn't care who she hurts or destroys to get it. She has always been someone who would have an affair.

And I know what I am and I can say that I would not be involved in an affair. I defined who I am when I turned down advances in college from girls while I was in a relationship. I defined who I am when I was single and had married/attached women calling me and coming to my house and I turned them away every time.

Just as she has always been what she is and probably always will be, I am what I have always been and always will be. Psychobabble is just that, babble. Of course if she has talked with a therapist, do you think he would have gotten any more truth than I have?

What a nice breath of fresh air to hear you say how much integrity you have. You are a strong guy and any woman would be very blessed to have that kind of honesty in a relationship....and humor too.... Moe, you are on the mend from this unhealthy crap and can look forward to meeting a woman who realizes how dang special you are....And that's the truth as Rose Anna Danna Danna would say.

Be well and do something nice for yourself over this weekend. I am just headed out now, alone, to do the second part of my vacation at a beautiful state park where I can meditate, walk under the big pines and read a dozen books. Oh, yes, and sip some really nice Pinot Nior by the campfire. No worries about being with somebody who puts my mind in a cesspool, nope, done with that. May even dance a little. I think I have stopped the broken the record, as this post says. Not to say I don't miss my X, but then I remember the lies. One week today NC. Yippee.

Judy

<<And I know what I am and I can say that I would not be involved in an affair.>>

I agree with you Moe! I know I would never cheat and I dont care what anyone else says. I know me and they don't.

If anyone has had an excuse to cheat it would be all of us here. My H refuses to go on vacations and literally spends no time with me or the kids. There were many nights when he was out with his hoe and I was at home feeling so very lonely and like my marriage was over. Many guys have come onto me over the years, and yes, even during this very vulnerable part of my life and I chose not to cheat. It never even entered my mind. My IC even asked me about this and said he was surprised that I didn't cheat considering my H's obvious neglect. He said many women who cheat sight neglect as their main excuse. He was also surprised that I did not go out and have a revenge A after d-day. He said that was nother excuse many sposues give. I told him that's now who I am. So he said to me "under what circumstances then would you say that it was OK to cheat in your mind"? My answer...NEVER! I said I would divorce my H before I cheated on him. He was impressed by my answers, especailly since he could tell I was sincere. he said almost everyone he asks those questions usually come up with an excuse of some kind. I said "because that's exactly what they are, excuses! There is never a valid reason to cheat on your spouse". I truly believe that.

Take Care,
Carol~