my WS expresses sincere remorse, and yet I am often unmoved.
If my memory serves me right - not a sure thing these days - your d-day was barely 2 months ago - it takes TIME, Mary - be patient with yourself and your spouse.
I have taken to saying that I got to the point where it wasn't about an affair anymore; we separated almost five years after d-day and the last year together was full of fighting.
Unlike some folks, I was not "blindsided" and knew my marriage had hit a bad patch before d-day. So "surprise" was not one of the emotions that registered with me. More like straight into anger.
The affair was part of a pattern of "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" behavior by my ex-wife. THAT is ultimately what my divorce was about. There were more "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" things after the affair (but not another affair I can prove) and it was an unacceptable pattern to me; I stayed angry for a long time. I thought I had an "anger management problem" when I really had a constant thorn in my side...about which I was legitimately angry. (I strongly suggest angry BS read Harriet Lerner's "The Dance of Anger" and sequels.)
If asked, I tell people don't divorce just because of an affair, especially with a remorseful spouse. Divorce if the affair is "the last straw" in a disrespectful relationship. Divorce if the affair is part of a life pattern by your spouse of sneaky behavior. Divorce if the affair was aided and abetted by an underlying addiction that isn't being resolved. Divorce if the affair was part of a pattern of emotional and/or physical abuse. And there are some betrayed spouses who get and stay angry and self-righteous because they're "one up" in the relationship and can always say they're better than their spouse. Those folks should probably get a divorce too, because they're never going to let go and be happy people.
And be warned. There are a couple of people on these boards whose spouses "relapsed" after initially saying and doing all the right things. I'm sure they will post responses too.
We are still together at the five year mark. It has been a tough five years for both of us. I was pissed off for over 3 1/2 years. I bounced back and forth between wanting to get even with OM and being really disappointed in my wife. My wife was guilt ridden for almost 4 years. We both think that our health has been seriously affected by all of this.
It is very much true when they say that there are three healings that must occur. My wife and I are showing signs of our personal healing but our marriage is no where near healed yet. We get along. We are honest with each other. Most of the trust is restored but our marriage is nothing like it was. It has morphed into something else. I don't even know how to describe it but it has to do specifically with the individuals involved and the wounds endured.
In the beginning, like you, I checked out all the divorce proceedings. For me, in my state, I thought it to be totally unfair for me as a betrayed male. Unlike Chris, I was totally blindsided by my wife's affair. All of that just added to my anger. For a long time it felt like I had wasted my life with this woman, 31 years at the time of the affair. Sometimes I still feel that way but my family (the bigger picture) means a lot to me. But it still pisses me off about the state laws seeming so unfair for a betrayed man here.
On the other hand, if a woman is betrayed in this state, she can take her cheating H to the cleaners if she wants to. Even a cheating wife can take her true blue H to the cleaners if she wants to. It happens all the time. I'm not making light of what either gender has to go thru in a divorce. From what I've read, I know it must be very difficult for all who divorce.
All that said, if I really wanted to leave, I would have. I consider living in a hellish envionment worse than loosing what I'd worked my ass off for. But I do wonder though, if the laws weren't so lop sided if I'd have stayed in the beginning when I was considering leaving. I know that if I'd left back then, I'd left while angry and unsettled.
I don't know that my opinions are making much sense to you because as you can tell I probably have a different perspective because I'm a betrayed male. You can probably tell I still have quite a bit of resentment for being put in this position. But it gets easier as time goes by.
From somebody who has been down the divorce road........wait at least 3 months and then decide. If you find you have to run out the door, rather than walk then you likely aren't ready for a divorce.
To me the difference would have been a remorseful spouse. One who actually felt bad for what he had done and apologized for the hurt he caused, understood or tried to understand my pain. One who had stopped the affair and was proving to me there was no contact. One who was willing to examine what was wrong inside him that allowed him to cheat on me. If I had that, I would likely still be married.
Some of the books I read recommend waiting at least 6 months after dday to make any earth shattering decisions. I think I agree that is wise.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jun 3, 2007 9:52 PM
Well, I had the very remorseful spouse. He cried about what he did to me, he apologized profusely and for a year and a half, our marriage seemed to be healing well.
Here is where things fell apart. As Chris said:
"Divorce if the affair is part of a life pattern by your spouse of sneaky behavior. Divorce if the affair was aided and abetted by an underlying addiction that isn't being resolved."
My ex had both the addiction and the constant lying. He didn't know how to come completely clean and would not get sexual addiction counseling even though a few marriage counselors told him he should get it. That was where our marriage fell apart. Over a year into our healing, I found out he was still being dishonest and that he had had a few more affairs in our early marriage. We were married for 15 years. I told him he either got counseling or our marriage was over and he basically said he wouldn't and that maybe we should divorce. He was afraid it would jeopardize his job so that was it. I knew I could not live this way for the rest of my life and that it would not change.
In your post above I got the sense that you are saying that everything you and NM worked for in your life together is really yours and she would have had no legitimate claim on any of it if you divorced. Did I read that wrong?
Those divorce laws are written to recognize that stay-at-home parents often give up outside careers to make significant non-salaried contributions to a household. Most states strive for "equitable division" where the law seeks to recognize and to balance a lifetime of various contributions by the divorcing partners.
I may hold the record for holding on, I am eight years past d-day and have been separated for about seven months. I very much wanted to reconcile (although during the ups and downs I had my doubts, naturally) and my H had ended the A and expressed remorse.
However, as Chris said, after a few years it really is about the quality of the marriage, not the affair, although I wonder if the affair hadn't happened if I would be able to tolerate more.
In my case, my H is very controlling, verbally and emotionally abusive, secretive, emotionally unavailable and selfish. Those qualities were there before the affair, but were highlighted by how he chose to approach recovery from the affair. You may have read here how recently he betrayed me again by borrowing a large sum of money without my knowledge.
But even given all that, I think I would still stay and settle for this relationship if my H showed some desire for me sexually. After we got married, for some unknown reason my H showed no interest in me and I was always the pursuer. I was rejected more times than not and it was very damaging to my self esteem. After d-day I swore I would not let us go a week without making love but as time went on it was harder and harder to get his attention, even once a month. After a couple of years of this (remember, he had a year-long, full blown sexual affair) I was just too humiliated to keep pursuing him and told him I would wait for him to initiate. He did not do so for three years. I tried again, and we did have sex once, but nothing in the two years since.
So as Chris says, it is about the marriage now. We have no emotional or physical connection, we are roommates and parents together, he is financially irresponsible, and just mean to me a lot of the time. He certainly has good qualities as well, and that is why I have held on, but it just isn't enough and I know that it will never really change.
For me, it was about five years after d-day before I felt like myself again. Before I trusted myself to really consider such big decisions. It might be less for you, but it really is a good idea to wait a while before you make any life altering decisions. If your H is truly remorseful, working on gaining back your trust and most importantly, working on becoming a person worth trusting, I think there is every reason to believe you could have a great marriage, if that's what you want. Of course, there are some BSs who just can't get past it and I don't think anyone can blame them for that.
Give it some time Marie, and don't pressure yourself to make a decision right away. No matter what path you choose, it will take a while for you to get past this and feel whole again. It sucks but that is the way it is. I don't regret trying to reconcile and I am moving on without bitterness.
You know I get the feeling that when you are ready and start dating again that you will be pleasantly surprised how great some guys can be. I get the feeling that I felt much the same way as you in my marriage. We never went without sex but I think emotionally I felt rejected anyway. He had bigger priorities than me.
I am in the category of having a relapsed spouse. Ex spouse, I should say.
After my ex's first A was brought out in March '02 (by the OW's H who had caught then in bed), we went SEVERAL months of him saying it was over when it wasn't, him sneaking around (we worked different shifts), and a LOT of lies. We separated for a few weeks in September and he claimed some kind of light bulb moment that he wanted to be with me. The entire time, he told anyone who would listen (including the OW and her H) that he loved me and wanted to make our marriage work. I'm not sure how that went along with him still sneaking around, the two seem mutually exclusive! I am not sure when the A started but the OW divorced her H in October, 2002. She told her H that day that she would be with my husband and her H called to warn me. It seemed they HAD started talking again. I went in, woke my H up and told him to get out. I told him I wasn't going to live like that for another minute - if he couldn't make the break with her, I'd make it with him. I told him to be out by the time I got home at 5. When I got home, he was up and had called a friend about a new job. (He worked w/OW). He never went back to his job and I'm 99% sure he never contacted her again.
Things were going GREAT for the two years or so... until the old "fire in the gut" feelings came back for me. He was cheating AGAIN in Sept '04. He shifted a lot of blame to me that I 'couldn't get over it' (never mind the fact that he'd lied SO MUCH I didn't believe a lot of what he said!). He left in October '04 and we divorced in June '05. The "friend" that he was calling and spending time with asked him to move in about 3 months after we separated. OH, but they were "just friends" and it was a business arrangement... They're now married and have a baby.
He didn't want to change. He (sorry, I edited this, I had "I" there!) wanted to blame everything on me - I didn't cook enough, clean enough, have sex enough, you name it. The real issue is that he's a CHEATER at his very core (he still cheats on his new wife!). He never took one ounce of responsibility for his affairs. They "just happened". Right, like tsunamis and tornadoes! He had a fairly traumatic childhood and has never dealt with his feelings of abandonment and rejection - and thinks that therapy is a load of bunk. He's scared to try and delve into those old feelings, so he just buries them. They still appear in his life.
I would have stood on my head to get him to stop cheating and try and be happy. He didn't want to. He was convinced that there was someone better for him. Well, sometimes, the grass is greener right where we're standing. What is funny now is that, since our divorce, my ex has told me on numerous occasions that I'm the love of his life and nothing his W does compares to me. "She's just not you." I get a chuckle out of it.
To me, the real issue is that the WS "GETS" it and takes FULL responsibility for the affair. To go outside of the relationship, while taking time and intimacy away from their spouse, to get their unspoken needs met: that is a true problem! My ex had a few lucid moments when I felt like he "got it" but would quickly relapse into his old behavior.
Wow, sorry this was so long! Give yourselves some time to get to know eachother again - and see if the old behavior comes back. I do believe that some people can and do change - but my ex is not one of them. He just is who he is.
Monica
My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.
This message has been edited by PrincessofQuiteALot on Jun 4, 2007 10:32 PM
Our d-days were days apart and I was just wondering how you are. I'm here and there are days when it's hard to breath. I liked and related to your statement about looking forward and how looking back is not so good.
I have days where every fiber of my being wants to leave and other days where I look at my son and feel what he might if his family were blown to smithereens. The levels of insecurity an affair brings is endless. I feel stupid for being here. I feel like an idiot waiting for the next shoe to fall. Even though my husband is apologetic to the nth degree, I like you, am unmoved. Outwardly, I'm silent and inwardly all I can say is f.u.
At any rate, I hope the two of us can move forward and learn whatever the hell it is we're supposed to be learning from this nightmare.
They're now married and have a baby.