Hi GT and everyone,

GT, you have helped me with this before...I hope you will be so kind as to help me again...

I'm back in my mode of feelng like I will never be as desirable to H as OW was...Thinking about them having sex numerous times in a meeting which he doesn't want with me, spent hours of uninterrupted sex with her...how he went to any length to be with her...I know all the stuff intellectually about the high of the A and being with someone new and different....but today I am still strugglng with feeling like he will never be as excited by me as he was with her...I know it's stupid...She was a falling down drunk that didn't even take care of her appearance...yet, he RAN to her and had sex with her multiple times in a meeting...and he couldn't wait to be with her...he says because he never knew when he would get it again...When I bring this up, he talks about how he was running on adrenaline and the high then, that was all they had, etc...but why doesn't he want that with me?? Yes, we have kids and a life, but it still sucks that he managed to make time for that with her...He says what we have now is healthy and normal, that now he is taking care of responsibilities at home that he let slide during that period......GT you have reasured me before about how you feel about your H now...Can you please help me again?

H feels frustrated that he can't convince me that he really wants me...Maybe there is no way anyone could convince me that they really wanted me now, unless they chased me the way he did her...It has been a year since he broke it off with her...He is ashamed of his actions with her and feels like I am throwing it in his face when I bring this up, but it still hurts....

I guess if any of you men could help me believe that a man can actually WANT their wives more than some drunk slut that would help me too...

Thanks everyone!

I don't know if this can be helpful considering I was the betrayed spouse but maybe just chiming in can offer something.

I like any man would see desirable women and desire them before my wife's affair. Now when I see them, no thought enters my mind except how badly I want to be with my wife. Maybe this is sort of your point of view.

After my wife and I decided to work on it, I feared that she couldn't bring herself to want me and that she avoided being with me because of me. The fact was that she was so ashamed that she couldn't believe that I wanted to be with her and avoided me because she thought that's what I wanted. The openness between me and my wife may have helped us to take that step. Once there it quickly became as beautiful as the very first time.

Perhaps for him his level of shame is very high for him not to be able to get past that. An awkwardness that's hard for him to deal with. A fear that guilt would rush over him unbearably. He may feel pressured even though unintentionally on your part to have to face those things and it not be about you..

I would think reaching a comfort level in some way between you is what would help to break through those barriers. The desire is there because he is man and you are woman. With her it was sex, for you it needs to be making love and those obstacles I mentioned could be in the way.

Hope for the best for you,

Mac

I'm looking forward to reading GT's reply to this because I feel exactly the same as you do!
Only for me, the OW was very attractive with a great athletic figure and 20 years younger than me. I wonder if that makes it worse or better? Probably makes no difference either way, but I just know I can't compete with her in any way at all. And I know I shouldn't feel like I'm competing, but I do, and its stupid cos I'll lose. And it doesn't help one bit that I don't know what he REALLY thinks. They MUST compare us to them, surely? I mean, did you read the thing where I said my H got me into that ridiculous sex position and later said that because she liked it, he thought I might? If that's not comparing I don't know what is - AND he must have been thinking of her when he did that to me. MUST have been, and nothing anybody ever says not never ever will convince me otherwise. Amen. xxxx

Sandy, sometimes when you describe things your H says and does it breaks my heart. I don't like to judge period let alone on things I know nothing of.

The feeling of competing is normal I think. I don't know what the OM looks like, but I envision this lanky Cowboy type with boots, the button up shirt, and Stetson cologne. For giggles I put a big shiny belt buckle on him and some bow legs. I could be wrong, but it's a picture I have some fun with.

I don't know if I was just the beneficiary of some ego stroking or not, but I got the "no one could ever make me feel as good as you" thing during our first and only time since her A. I like to think that I may have been challenged but I'm still #1. Again, as long as she wants me to think that I'm cool with it. I couldn't handle knowing at all what it was like with him or if there was anything better about him.

I am a BS...

Sandy, your H is CRUEL... insensitive and a bunch of other things LOL LOL and if my H had told me the same thing ... we would not be together to this day.... no way... no how...

I would like to chime in and give you a little something something to think about.. some of the most glamorous, drop dead gorgeous women actors out there in glamor land have been BS.... so, it is not who one is, what one looks like or how good in bed one is.

HW - it may be time to let go of that somewhat "comfortable" place you are in... what I mean is... it is up to you to stopped comparing yourself with a fantasy. To believe your H is with you cause he wants to, and not because he feels obligated. It does not matter at this time how many times they had sex, it happened, one time is too many in my book !!!! So, maybe it is time for you to enjoy the NOW. Let the past be where it belongs, behind you, and start looking ahead. What is it for you at this time you are still "obssessing" about how many times etc... etc...

I know, I know easier said than done, and how could I possibly even mention this to you, after all I am a BS... BUT I have been in your shoes. If anything, without sounding too cocky... I am quite comfortable within my sexuality and when I found who the OW was.... I was somewhat disappointed... I thought my H would have had better taste LOL

I hope you will received several answers. But it is your choice and decision to believe what your H is telling you especially if he walking the walk.

Now, I will put my 2x4 back in its place....behind my front door





And as you walk you make your path Kat

I need a little time to put my thoughts down on this and will get back to you. Just wanted you to know I was thinking about it.

GT

I just knew GT would be here on this one!!! I'm off to work now, but I'll be looking forward to popping in again as soon as H is out of the way to see what she has to say. I just know its gonna be good...!!
Everyone, I know my H is as sh**. Its a long time since he said that, but it still sticks, and of course, he says I should forget it cos its in the past. He keeps forgetting I'm an elephant.....
These things will come back to haunt him when I finally get my life back! I'm feeding him up well, to get him nice and fat, encouraging all the wrong shampoo to get his baldness to hurry along, and waiting for the day when he gets to know how it feels.
Revenge is a dish better eaten cold, they say.

Kat wrote:
<<So, maybe it is time for you to enjoy the NOW. Let the past be where it belongs, behind you, and start looking ahead>>

Thank you for your wisdom Kat...As always it is appreciated....
I respect your opinions and experience...when I saw your picture in the other thread I couldn't help but think that you look like a genuinely happy woman in spite of all that you have been through...

In large part H and I are enjoying each other and the now, but sometimes something will set me off and I get back to that other yucky place of comparing to her, especially when he is not attentive enough...I get this thought that if SHE wanted to be with him at any time you know he would have run...and then I go off to the races with the comparisons....

I was thinking too that maybe I am just scared s%*#less to just let go and forget about it...Like if I let myself forget how much he wanted her, my guard will be down and it will happen again...Or if he is not interested in me, it will happen again...Irrational, I know...especially because he has put so much work into changing the person who did those things. My C had the same message as you...that I should enjoy TODAY...even if he did it again some time in the future and our marriage ended, why waste today?? I could have years of happiness in the interim....

Kat wrote:
<<So, maybe it is time for you to enjoy the NOW. Let the past be where it belongs, behind you, and start looking ahead>>

Thank you for your wisdom Kat...As always it is appreciated....
I respect your opinions and experience...when I saw your picture in the other thread I couldn't help but think that you look like a genuinely happy woman in spite of all that you have been through...

In large part H and I are enjoying each other and the now, but sometimes something will set me off and I get back to that other yucky place of comparing to her, especially when he is not attentive enough...I get this thought that if SHE wanted to be with him at any time you know he would have run...and then I go off to the races with the comparisons....

I was thinking too that maybe I am just scared s%*#less to just let go and forget about it...Like if I let myself forget how much he wanted her, my guard will be down and it will happen again...Or if he is not interested in me, it will happen again...Irrational, I know...especially because he has put so much work into changing the person who did those things. My C had the same message as you...that I should enjoy TODAY...even if he did it again some time in the future and our marriage ended, why waste today?? I could have years of happiness in the interim....

I know that what I'm going to say will not give you any immediate comfort. But I think this is one of those things that is going to take time. It's going to take your husband a long time to prove to you (with his actions) what he is saying with his words.

You mentioned that you want your husband to feel with you what he felt with the OW. I don't feel with my husband what I felt with the OM. I always go back to that "drug addict" analogy. What I had with him was so bad for me (and I saw that) but I was addicted to it. What I have with my husband now is so much more than an "addictive" feeling. Maybe your husband is trying to tell you that's how he feels as well?

You wrote>>He says what we have now is healthy and normal, that now he is taking care of responsibilities>>

That's exactly how I feel now. What we have is a healthy love. Something I don't believe anyone can achieve when involved in an affair. 

My husband did tell me once that he wanted me to be as wrapped up in him as I was the OM. The truth is I couldn't. Not because the OM was something special. But because what I had with him was wrapped around so many things that an affair represents. But I could be wrapped up in my husband in a different way, and a better way than with the OM.

I've said before that there was nothing special about the OM. He wasn't better looking, smarter, or any of the things you'd think someone would risk a marriage for. He was simply the person who was willing to have an affair with a married woman. And even if it had been those things above that's not why I chose him. I chose him because he paid attention to me. But he could have been any man. I know my husband compared himself to the OM. But honestly, in my mind there is no comparison. 

In reality, my husband wasn't competing with the OM. He was competing with the "feelings" I got from the whole affair experience. I felt I was getting my needs met. Once I was able to see that I was looking for unhealthy ways to have my needs met, I was able to turn that around and let my husband (and myself) meet my needs in a healthy way.  

Marie, I think your head is telling you that what your husband is saying is true, you just have trouble getting there with your emotions. I don't know your husband. Or what is going through his mind. But I can tell you that nothing about the OM or the affair appeals to me. I don't look back with longing and miss the OM or any part of that relationship. My husband and I (at some point) had to start building a relationship centered around "us." In so many ways we started over. We went forward with what we had, and let the affair go. We made that decision together and then worked towards sticking to it. 

I think each couple must get to that point in recovery to finally move on. I believe that can only happen when things have not been swept under the rug, but brought out and dealt with. But everyone gets there in their own time.
 
After Dday (when I finally got it) I may not have acted with my husband the way I did with the OM. But that doesn't mean my love for him wasn't real. And it didn't mean that I didn't regret what I'd done. Or that I wasn't excited about being with him. I showed my feelings in a different way because they were different. It wasn't the clingy, addictive, stupid kind of "love" I showed the OM. It was a deeper love that didn't need all the theatrics to make it work.

I hope this helps. If I didn't answer the questions you had or if you have more, just let me know. 

 

>>>>>>>>>I am just scared s%*#less to just let go and forget about it...<<<<<<<<

Marie, one can let go. But one cannot forget - it is what one does with the 'memories' which is important.

Unless I were to have a lobomoty or loose my mind I know it happened. I don't dwell on 'it' but now it is weaved into the fabric of our lives.

And as you walk you make your path Kat

Marie, I'd like to add a heartfelt THANK YOU

GT, I like reading your responses.

Where you have gotten to is where I hope my wife can get to and I think she's working on that. We have connected over the past week had terrific closeness and talked very positively. I believe that she remains in love with me and that she wants this to work. I don't think she'll be here otherwise.

But there is tentativeness on both our parts that we both feel even after some of the wonderful moments we have had. You can feel us feeling each other out. I wonder what she's thinking, who's she thinking of, do I make her uncomfortable being around? I can tell she is worried about how I'm doing because she asks and almost seems to be waiting for anger that she has been told will surely come from me. In spite of the times of extreme closeness and communication, there is still awkwardness between us.

She has told me that she still has feelings that she has to sort out with the OM and that they can be just friends. So while I believe that it is me she remains in love with, I know that she is yet to be all mine. I think we can and will "get there" and I am guessing it is normal for her to have this period of conflict. Am I correct in that?

I think we will make it but there is still worry and sorrow.

Yes I believe it is normal for her to have a period of conflict. And to need time to sort out her feelings. It took me a long while to get over the emotional attachment to the OM.

Your wife saying that she wants to remain friends with the OM is troubling to me. It's my opinion that two people who were involved in an affair can never go back to being "just friends."  I've been there done that, and it's just too tempting to go right back to the affair. Or to turn to that person to have your needs met (emotional) instead of your spouse. Sorting through your marriage is something that cannot be done (IMO) as long as the OP is in the picture in any way. In my situation getting the OM totally out of my life helped tremendously with that. When he was still in the picture it just kept those emotions clouded about him.

Moe, I don't want to discourage you with what I wrote above. It does sound like in many ways your wife is getting it. And I know it takes a lot longer for us betrayers to come around than it should. I remember being so caught up in my own turmoil that I didn't have the strength to help my husband. My bet is that your wife is somewhere around that place as well.

Keep posting and talking to us. It does help to speak with those who have been there. And thanks for the response and kinds words on the Members Forum. It does mean a lot to me that people are helped by me sharing my story. 

GT

 

GT wrote:
<<My husband did tell me once that he wanted me to be as wrapped up in him as I was the OM.>>

Yes! this is exactly where I get stuck...He put so much effort into her that it seems like she was so special to him...It is very hard for me to feel special to him since the A, especially knowing how much effort he put into her...How did your H get past this?

<<The truth is I couldn't. Not because the OM was something special. But because what I had with him was wrapped around so many things that an affair represents.>>

I know this intellectually...She flattered him when he was depressed...She wanted to have sex with him when he felt like a loser, etc...He felt like a big man having two women...And he has an addictive personality that loves an escape to boot...she filled all of these unhealthy needs...My C says to think of it as a crack addict looking for a fix...and not that the "fix" is so great...it just blots out reality and that is what the addict is looking for...My C asks if I want H to want me for that reason - or do I want him to want me as the person he wants to spend his life with? As you say, H says he does not think of her with any warm, reminiscient thoughts - he does not miss her and says he probably wouldn't think of her at all if it wasn't for us talking about it in regards to our marriage, and for feeling stupid and guilty about his actions...That's how unimportant he says she was to him in the big picture...I get this sometimes, but at other times I still struggle with it...

Thanks again for your help GT!

Wonder if you can answer this one (by the way, maybe you should write a book). My H left me for HER. So, I assume he thought she was better than me, otherwise he wouldn't have gone, would he?
Also, you've said before that you couldn't look at yourself in the mirror. My H just LOVES looking at himself in the mirror, and during the affair, positively preened himself in front of it. He'd often look at himself from all different angles and ask me if I thought he'd lost weight and if I thought he looked good.
I don't believe he is, or ever was, ashamed of himself, and in my dumb way, I think I need that.
Which is one of the reasons why I think there's no hope for us..
Thanks, you're brilliant.
Love Sandy xxxxx
Even if you won't show us your photo or tell us about your underwear....

GT, at lunch today my wife tried to tell me she didn't want me to misunderstand what she meant by "still has feelings". Like she has feelings but not feelings feelings. Sure it's hard not to misunderstand because they did share intimacy which is a lot different than sharing a beer.

We talked a lot about my insecurities and she again tried to assure me that they will be nothing but friends. She says they just see each other for 5 minutes in a group in the office as he's leaving her shift while they arrive. Of course this is how it was before they decided to make it more. But she says he asks her how things are going with us and she told me that last weekend OM and his wife went on a cycle trip to Kentucky for the weekend and had a good time. So they're talking still about their lives, but it seems mostly checking in to see if that which was damaged is mending. I can live with that.

I amazingly have retained faith in my wife and a level of trust even though there are now doubts where there once wasn't. Still all of that has not been totally destroyed.

But I believe we are where we can now focus on the things we need to change that created the environment putting us here and to move forward. If there's one thing that has not been an obstacle, we have not had to struggle with pettiness.

First - you have to tell me your real name, or the one you're using on here, cos some people call you Mac and I'm confused.
Second, when I asked my H about HER, he said he had feelings for her, when I asked what feelings, he said he liked her, and that is as much as I have ever got after 3 years of trying. He swears it wasn't love (but he does admit to telling her he thought he was falling in love with her) and I do not believe him.
We were so happy together, he wouldn't have done what he did to me for anything less than love. I know it, he knows it, but he'll never, ever ever ever ever admit it. That I am sure of.
xxxx

Sandy, I don't remember the thread but I just responded to another of your messages on the story of my name. Probably much more info there than you needed.

I have read where people hate hearing that 'it was just about sex', but for me I think it would be easier if it was just about sex. The hard part is the sharing of the heart. That when she was in his arms that she felt safe and cared for. That when their hands touched her body tingled. That when their eyes met they smiled and saw caring. They say it wasn't love, but it was a connection of the purest of emotions.

I think the ones where it is just about sex have it easy but I don't want to say that to be cold or hurtful.

Moe,

No matter WHAT the WS say is the reason, love or sex (or anything in between or both) betrayal is betrayl and hurts like hell!

Hugs,

fairyfriend

Moe wrote>>I have read where people hate hearing that 'it was just about sex', but for me I think it would be easier if it was just about sex>>

My husband said the opposite. He said the physical part of my relationship hurt him far worse than the emotional part.

GT 

In some ways, isn't this one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" games? If there was a close emotional bond then the BS is left with doubts about their own emotional bond with the WS - did the WS choose to stay for me or for the sake of kids or history or whatever? If it was "just about sex", then the BS winds up wondering if they should stay with someone who would jeopardize so much for a roll in the hay.

In any case, sex and an emotional bonds usually travel together. It's hard for me to keep them separate.

(hearts or tails? get it? huh?)

Marie wrote>>>...and not that the "fix" is so great...it just blots out reality and that is what the addict is looking for>>

I had never had an addiction of any kind before my affair. But I now see what it must be like to be addicted to drugs. I could not for the life of me see why I continued the affair when in my head I knew how destructive it was. Yet I kept going back. My counselor compared it to a dog and a dead squirrel. It's nasty, smelly, and you know it's dead, yet you keep going back and picking it up and carrying it around. That's how I was. It got to the point I hated myself everytime I agreed to see the OM. Yet I kept agreeing to see him. I was also amazed that it only took 6 months to get that addicted.

Sandy wrote>>So, I assume he thought she was better than me, otherwise he wouldn't have gone, would he?>>

I don't claim to know what your husband was thinking. But my guess is that your husband liked the way he looked in the OW's eyes. That didn't mean SHE was anything special, she just made him feel special. Did it make her better than you, so he left you for her? I'd be surprised if he gave it that much thought. If your husband is like I was then he was in the affair for what he was getting out of it, it really had nothing to do with the OW or you. I really wasn't concerned about what the OM was getting out of it or how special he was. Or if he was better at anything than my husband.

>>>Also, you've said before that you couldn't look at yourself in the mirror>>

I could look in the mirror on the surface. But I could never look at what was inside. And when the lights went out at night I had to have something to help me sleep because I couldn't stand to lie there and "think."

>>>Even if you won't show us your photo or tell us about your underwear>>>

My husband and I talked about posting a photo of us. But no one knows of my affair. And although the chances are slim that someone I know would see it, I just won't take that chance because of my children. But if you must know, I wear "Hanes Her Way" underwear.....in multiple colors. 

Moe wrote>>> amazingly have retained faith in my wife and a level of trust even though there are now doubts where there once wasn't>>>

Again, I don't want to discourage you. But I have to tell you this, please keep your eyes and ears open.

I hope your wife does continue to get it. And I believe once she really does she will see that for your sake and her's, she should no longer have contact at all with the OM.

GT
 

So many wise people here.

GT, it means so much to hear your input.

My wife told me today that she didn't want me to misinterpret "still has feelings". Okay that seems pretty interpretable to me. She was trying to explain that her feelings weren't like feelings feelings. Or she has feelings for him, but she's not IN feelings for him. Okay, I could have fun with that all day.

She said that she can see in my eyes pain and doubt when she leaves the house for work and it both worries her and hurts her that she's done that to me.

Then she said that she would never do this again, that she would get a divorce first. My wife is not a master of communication and I know she was telling me this to alleviate my doubts, but it still is a hard thing to hear. I caught myself before I replied "glad to know you have it all planned out". I merely closed my eyes and she jumped in to say that she didn't mean she was going to go get a divorce.

She just now called me from work to tell me she's coming home to reassure me.

Maybe what your wife is trying to say is that she has feelings, she just can't identify exactly what they are right now? 

Moe, I would be more worried about your wife if she was telling you that she was totally over the OM at this point. Feelings just don't go away overnight. So it sounds like she is trying to sort through her "stuff."  

GT

GT said >>Feelings just don't go away overnight. So it sounds like she is trying to sort through her "stuff."<<

And I understand that. She is really attentive to me right now which helps and we are having some good connection.

She has lost a lot of weight, which never mattered to me, but she looks GOOD and has a lot of cute and exciting new clothes. I don't want it to sound as though she is over her remorse, but she is on a high of confidence now while I am the polar opposite. I've lost weight too but need to get in shape maybe to start to feel as though I can be an equal in some way. I guess my point is I wonder how long someone on a high can maintain emotion for someone on a low.

She feels great about being able to wear her clothes to work and to change into her uniform while there instead of what she calls "hiding" in her uniform. It's not that I worry so much about the OM seeing her, but that I know she's turning heads. The confidence she once only wanted to gain from me, she's learning she can get from so many other sources. She really appreciates my compliments, but I fear they don't mean as much as they once did.

I just find her at work again today while instead of me doing anything for me I am to spend the whole day moving kids from band competition to baseball to soccer all day. She had a gleam in her eye when she said she'll see me tonight when she gets home and a sparkle when I said I'll be waiting up for her, so I've got that going for me...which is nice.

>>> but she is on a high of confidence now while I am the polar opposite>>>

This sounds familiar. The "high" of confidence IMO could be one of two things. Remember an affair is an addiction, so sometimes the "high" could mean the affair is still going on in some form or fashion. Or it could mean that now it's out in the open your wife feels a burden has been lifted off her shoulders. Problem is, she put it on you. 

Someone (I think H2C) wrote on another thread that his wife wanted to talk with him about the OM. I was somewhat like that. I wanted my husband to "fix" it for me. It sounds like maybe your wife is leaning on you to do somewhat of the same.

<<>>>>>The confidence she once only wanted to gain from me, she's learning she can get from so many other sources>>>She really appreciates my compliments, but I fear they don't mean as much as they once did>>>

My first thought when I read that line was "uh oh"  I fell into that mindset also. I convinced myself that my husband only said nice things to me and about me because he was my husband and he had to. I didn't think he really meant them. So when the OM or any other man complimented me it meant so much more. Not a healthy place for a married woman to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by other sources. But I had to learn to get my confidence from me, not my husband, or other men. I believe that was a huge part of why I had an affair. I always looked for someone else to make me happy. And when I felt my husband was no longer doing it, I turned to someone else.

Moe, when I read your posts my gut tells me that you need to continue to keep your ears and eyes open. It sounds like you are the one doing most of the agonizing over this marriage. And your wife has somewhat of a let's move on attitude. She is doing some things to reassure you. But I'd be much more convinced that she really gets it if she were willing to leave the OM alone totally. It sounds to me like she is still hanging on to him. Believing that she can still be friends with him after having had an affair, is a slap in the face to you. And it worries me (for you) that she's not at the point of seeing that.

What is your wife doing to discover why she had the affair? And what is she doing to make sure it doesn't happen again? To me those are two key things she needs to be working on. Otherwise I fear she will go back to the affair because it's the "safe" thing to do.

Right after I ended my affair (for good) my husband and I were both on a high. We both thought that the worst was behind us and that all we needed to do (as the counselor) said was rediscover each other. And for a time we did. We did the hysterical re-bonding. We went on dates and spent a lot of time together doing things we had once enjoyed. The sex was incredible at that time and we couldn't get enough of each other. We also believed that the affair had brought us closer together. That lasted for a few months and then "life" set back in.

Once the days of hysterical re-bonding ended we were left with a big elephant in our living room. For a time we were able to ignore it. We just stepped around it and went on. It became harder and harder to step around so finally we just stopped going into the living room at all. Our marriage took a severe nose dive in the next few years. 

Moe, please be careful that you and your wife don't fall into that thinking. People are not trying to discourage you when they say that the "high" won't last. Instead we are trying to prepare you for what might lie ahead.

In the end though, only you and your wife know what is going on in your home. We are here to talk to you and support you. So keep talking to us.

GT