Well, George and I we met up again for a second date last night.   He just moved here and doesn't know too many places, so I did the details on this one -- plus, I had to arrange it around childcare.  We went dutch treat, as I asked him to, because I arranged the date (but he's the one with the job).  I would have been impressed if he picked up my half, but he didn't, and that's okay, too.  He paid for our first date.  

Anyways, I've sort of determined that he's nice as a friend, but the "X" factor isn't there.  On our first date he asked me if I wanted to come over to his place after dinner, which I declined, and it seemed he might kiss me goodnight, but it was awkward and I sort of positioned myself away from that.  This time I would't have minded a kiss goodbye, but we were in a busy parking lot and it just didn't happen.

I was stressing out the whole day of the date.  (PC problems were a big part of that, as I had to learn how to back up my stuff and then wipe out my hard drive and use the restore disk.  Took me the better part of 8 hours....ugh.)  And I was snappy with my kids, too, and then almost canceled the date altogether.... 

Hey Chris, I was thinking of how you are quite wise not even to venture into dating until your kids are older.  (But hey, how's your lady friend?) Now the "entertainment" budget is almost shot for the next month, and I spent that with a near-stranger rather than with my kids.....

I don't know -- it's hard for me to relate to a 47 yr old man who's never had children.   

then again, it was sort of fun to get out. 

Jean

Jean
"it's hard for me to relate to a 47 yr old man who's never had children"


Can't blame you at all on that one. I don't think I could have gotten serious with anyone who didn't have children and better yet meeting someone with a younger child like my kids. I did date one man one night while in the very early stages with my boyfriend and he didn't have kids. I felt a relationship with someone who never had kids would just be too hard for me and him both plus he said something that night about how he would be bothered if kids came in the room in the morning too early and I took that comment to mean when he was eventually married. I remember thinking that he didn't really understand children's needs and whatnot. There was also another little bizarre thing about him that turned me off but the bottom line is that someone with young children really needs someone who understands their situation. My BF often has his daughter as well and it is sometimes hard to coordinate when we both will or won't have our children so we can go out alone and we definitely needed someone who understood this situation.

I can see a single guy with no kids being frustrated if there is a night when I can't go out b/c I can't find a babysitter or dad doesn't have them. I also don't like leaving them with a babysitter on my weekend with them but I would for an important occasion. Anyway, it is much easier this way.

Charlie

This does sort of create a bit of a double standard.........but as a woman I have no problem dating a man with children as generally they don't live with the male......however if the situation were reversed and I was a childless male I think I would steer clear of single moms. I have a friend now who is dating a single mom and I see the problem he has in dating her.......never can get babysitters and half the dates end up with her and the kids which he didn't want to meet for a while. You can't just run off for the weekend and be spontaneous, everything must be planned right down to gotta be home by 1 so the babysitter can get home.

Should I meet somebody with children (the good doc for instance) I don't plan on meeting the children until we have been dating a few months and have decided that the relationship is worth pursuing. Its not that I don't like kids or don't want kids........its more for the benefit of the children and their feelings.........as well as establishing something strong individually before becoming more involved with the "family unit".

So Kim...

No custodial dads? If you want to have kids of your own...wouldn't a custodial dad be a good prospect?

Chris.

One of my male friends would be the answer, dear Jean....

<<<<but he hasn’t asked<<<< and what's wrong with YOU doing the asking??? trust me on this one, Jean... at least you would know if he is interested in meeting you. Be a little pro-active, dear, not just re-active... and asking someone for 'coffee' does not make it a relationship

I learned 'this' from my pets LOL.... they engage each other when they feel the need, they engage me the same way... whether they just want my attention or a cuddle - they ask...it is after all a 50/50 proposition

And as you walk you make your path Kat

"You can't just run off for the weekend and be spontaneous, everything must be planned right down to gotta be home by 1 so the babysitter can get home."

Well Kid I did just run off for the weekend :>) but we had it planned months in advance. I think you can find a way to make these things work if you try hard enough but the spontaneous thing definitely isn't there. I do think how much easier it must be for my ex to date than it is for me to do it and sometimes I don't think it is very fair but I wouldn't give my kids up for anything.

"Should I meet somebody with children (the good doc for instance) I don't plan on meeting the children until we have been dating a few months and have decided that the relationship is worth pursuing."

Yep, I know what you mean there. I met my BF's daughter after maybe 6 weeks or so but by that time I think we both knew we might have a long term relationship starting. He didn't meet my boys until about 3-4 months later but some of that was because I wasn't ready for my ex to know about him at that point. I met him several months after ex and I decided to D and after ex moved out and it just wasn't good timing. I don't feel bad for that though, at least we were in agreement we were divorcing and not living with each other. I know some have a problem with this but I really don't. It would be ideal to be D'd and would make me feel better but it may not happen for us for several years b/c we agreed for convenience sake, we will be this way for a while until one of us decides to file.

"its more for the benefit of the children and their feelings.........as well as establishing something strong individually before becoming more involved with the "family unit"."

It took us a while to get to that point but it feels very natural getting our children together and doing things now. His daughter and my son now fight like siblings:>(

Charlie

Edited because photo was too big.....  Hey, how do you edit a photo to make it a nice size to post?

Charlie wrote>>>I don't feel bad for that though, at least we were in agreement we were divorcing and not living with each other. I know some have a problem with this but I really don't>>>

I'm probably not the best one to be speaking up here, but that has never stopped me in the past. 

I think everyone has to do what "they" feel is right for them and their situation. I'm glad to hear you are doing that, even though some may not approve. Life is short Charlie. Glad to see you are happy. 

I had to laugh at the fighting like siblings comment. That must mean they feel comfortable with each other now. 

GT

Okay call me selfish or whatever........but if I have children I want to have the man's first child........not his 2nd, 3rd etc.

It's just what you want.  Of course you can pick and choose however you want.   

I wouldn't particularly want to have a romance with a man who had young children that were living with him, just because children add so many variables to the equation.  I would prefer that his children either be older (within a few years of leaving the nest ) and/or living with the mother.   Or.... of course a man with no children at all, altho as I mentioned above, there may be issues with him understanding the choices I've made regarding my children.

Then again, if I found a man who really wowed me....it might not matter so much, as long as our parenting styles complemented and enhanced each other's.

Jean

re:  "and what's wrong with YOU doing the asking???"

Well....I'm a bit old fashioned in that I like the man to express interest first.    But it's true, I might just make the first move.  After all, we only live once.  But I certainly will not be the one doing all the pursuing.  I've learned something from  my marriage.....

Actually, this guy sent me his cell number a few days agao when I emailed him about the the PC problems I was having.  I wasn't home that night, so the next day I emailed him back and asked him if that phone number he gave me was for tech support only.  Trying to be funny.    So far he hasn't emailed me back, so either he misinterpreted something or he's just waiting for me to make the call.

Jean

Well if its any concilation Jean the good doctor apparently isn't interested either.

So a honk and kiss in Thunder Bay mean nothing! Guys are so damn hard to read.

....you know what they say. "It's better to have honked and lost than never have known honking."

And, there's plenty of honking fish in the sea.

You know, it's just recently that I've gotten my head wrapped around the notion that I really need to be comfortable in my own skin first before I get involved with someone else.

I am so far from "having it all together" (i.e. a stable life emotionally and financially) that it isn't possible to spend time or emotional effort on someone else.

Chris.

Well my skin feels fine and it would feel finer if it were touched.........LOL

Chris in many ways you are lucky. You have your family and I know your children make you happy. Unfortunately for me I never had that opportunity and my internal clock is ticking if that is going to happen for me. Plus I am not going to waste another couple years not having sex and not enjoying the fact that I am in my sexual prime........dammit I gave him enough of my life!

Hmmmm maybe I should just save myself all the trouble and hassle and go get pregnant by some stranger that I never see again LOLOLOL

Is your clock ticking too loud? Are you ready for a child? then.... go ahead... nowadays - and my apologies to our gentle men on this board - a physical man is not 'needed'... sperm clinics are around...or even ... adopt a child who needs the love you are wanting to give.

Kats LOL

Right now it is noticably ticking but not to the point I can no longer ignore it.

I have actually thought about adoption or sperm donor. For future if there is no man in sight I may definitely look more seriously into it. At least the poor child won't be cursed with my thyroid problem.........however you never know what other ailments may occur. For now I am just happy being me, but would like somebody to share many things with.

"Then again, if I found a man who really wowed me....it might not matter so much, as long as our parenting styles complemented and enhanced each other's."

Jean

Funny that you say that. I think while my BF and I have very much the same morals and whatnot and love for our children, we both add to the others parenting in some respects. Like he keeps me calmer with my children because he's always so darned calm and easy to get along with and sometimes I'm a little to hyper and short with my kids, while I get him to discipline his daughter a bit more when he may not be assertive enough - she likes to say "no" to him a lot and I really hate to hear any child say that to their parent. Anyway, I think we both have some weaknesses in parenting and we definitely compliment and help each other.

Charlie

Kid

<<Plus I am not going to waste another couple years not having sex and not enjoying the fact that I am in my sexual prime........dammit I gave him enough of my life!>>

Amen, sista! I know what you mean there and can't blame you one bit!




BUT...do yourself a favor and don't go out and just get prego, I know you didn't really mean it, right? It is a lot more difficult that you imagine raising kids alone. The life change is huge when you haven't done it yet and it makes it very hard to have a good career, esp. when the kiddies get sick a lot. If you get into a situation like I have with a special needs child, you will wish you had a good hubby to fall back on if you really needed it. I'm very lucky that my ex made good money so I can still devote time to my son now while I finish my own schooling. My ex knew that my son needs so much more to get him where we want him one day, and this is why he was willing to do a bit more financially. There are others who are not so fortunate and I know this.

Charlie

Charlie the career situation isn't the issue. I have a great job in which I work compressed work weeks 8-5 4 days a week with 1 full day or two half days off per two weeks. Maternity leave would be paid at 97% of my salary for a full year, plus they offer 12 weeks off each year off for care and nurturing of children under 12. I get 3 weeks sick leave each year and 1 floater as well as 6 days family related leave to care for ailing children, family etc. So.......all together that means I don't work a heck of alot LMAO!

The real issue would be the change to my lifestyle. I like travelling and I tend to be quite spontaneous just deciding one Saturday to drive to Duluth or Minneapolis, booking cruises, etc. But then I figure I am pretty good at dealing with change....I think I may have seen alot in the last while lol

Kid, parenting is much easier for me these days. A fifteen-year-old is fairly self-sufficient (and actually very helpful around the house when trained). Plus, he has always been fun to be around...not all kids are.

I wouldn't want to be dealing with carseats and daycare and diapers and bottles and runny noses all by myself. It was hard enough with two of us, and we were self-employed (and so made whatever schedules we wanted).

Kids need a dad. Kids deserve a dad.

You had one.

Chris.

Lots of kids grow up without a dad and turn out to be productive members of society Chris. Yes I agree the perfect scenario is having a dad. But even if I decide to adopt there would be no dad. Its not like they would have some deadbeat dad who used to beat mom and now is in jail (that might be another thread LOLOLOL)

I could still love the child, nurture them and play soccer and baseball with them. Maybe I could even teach them to use a wrench and change some oil. Really.....what makes having both parents completely necessary?

And yes Chris I have a dad and I love him to death. But when I was growing up he was never home and when he was we were to be not seen and not heard from. In otherwords he didn't want to be bothered with us. Add that to the fact that my mother used to beat me with a stick and you can plainly see that my childhood wasn't that great. I want better for my child!

>>I could still love the child, nurture them and play soccer and baseball with them. Maybe I could even teach them to use a wrench and change some oil. Really.....what makes having both parents completely necessary?<<

Balance.

You aren't a man, and you can't ever relate the firsthand experience of being a man. That's as important for girls to learn from their dads (or from some man on an everyday basis) as it is for boys. If a girl doesn't see a good male role model, how can she choose a boyfriend or husband wisely?

It's why I'm so adamant about my son spending MORE time with his mother than the state seems to think a kid should spend with a non-custodial parent. She ain't perfect, but he needs to be around an adult woman on an everyday basis so he learns how to relate and figure out what he likes and doesn't like in a woman's personality.

Chris.

Chris

I find it funny talking about role models because I think BF is a better role model for my kids than their own dad, sadly. I am really happy they get to see someone who is the least selfish person around, someone who doesn't yell a lot, and someone who has lots of time to spend with them. It is a huge change and one that my kids are noticing as well from the things they tell me when they come home from dad's. I can see one of my sons comparing the two and asking questions. I don't ever say negative things about dad, I don't have to. I do see him drawing his own conclusions by the questions that he asks. I hope that his dad will wake up some day and be the type of dad that they always should have had, but think they are very fortunate to meet BF and see what you should act like versus the only thing they've ever experienced.

I agree with what you said about your son being with his mom to see what good and bad traits are in a woman and for him to make his decisions on what he wants but this can also backfire. If my kids had not met my BF, I think they would think their dysfunctional (in many ways) dad was what they should be like themselves because he was their only role model as a man, so in that respect, I don't think my kids would have actually benefited from having a father figure in their lives. No I can't teach them when they're young how boys pee in a toilet or something like that but I can do sports, rough house, throw a ball, teach him how to treat a woman, teach him to ride a bike and all that stuff I always had done as a Navy wife - I was forced to do it.

Charlie

I've got the same type of scenario with the ex, with a big BUT (yeah, I meant that, too) -- I don't have the boyfriend. 

My children's father is dysfunctional in his relationships -- with his children included.  He still is only interested in them when it is convenient for him.  And my son was hurt because, last week,  the only time his father took him to swim lessons (and only because of scheduling issues he refused to come in to the pool area to watch him swim because he's have to take off his socks and shoes and he didn't want to do that.  Not even for 5 minutes.  No matter that he hurt his son's feelings -- his son who would be overjoyed by his approval and acknowledgement.....   ugh.   No, this wasn't an off day for him, it was typical.

So, Charlie, I'm with you -- anyone that I get serious with in the dating arena would also have to be a good role model for my son.  Not that he would have to do a lot of activities together --- but that the potential for that is there when the timing is right.....

Jean

(edited because I was trying to make sense in a hurry without the benefit of any coffee this a.m.....)

Jean

Mine only sees his kids when it is convenient for him as well. I think it is sad. My BIL's dad had an A and left his mom when he was 15 and his father realized his loss and begged to come back home to the family but she didn't let him. I think he realizes what it did to his relationship with his 3 kids and he regrets it. They do talk now but none of them feels like they would have had he never left the family.

I wonder if one day our ex's will realize how insignificant all the other stuff that they think is so darned important now and realize that they gave up the most important thing? I guess I want him to realize it but he probably never will. Sometimes they just don't see it the same way as we do. Not every father is like Chris or Q (or even my BF) when it comes to wanting to be with their children.

Charlie