Struggling big-time with my same old A demon...

Thinking a lot about "them together"...How he would risk anything to spend time with her, and when he was with her, how it would last for HOURS and HOURS....

Comparing that to his time alone with me (sans kids...kid time doesn't count - She got to have him alone)....How hard it is to nail him down for a date...How we are always "talking about" getting a motel room but we have only done it once months ago (you know he didn't "talk about" getting a room with her...when the oppportunity arose he grabbed it)....

Same old...intellectually I know the dynamics of the exciting get-it-when-you can affair vs. a marriage...but I want to be the excitement, the girlfriend, the lover....I feel like she got to be that, and I don't...

H says no matter what he does for me, it is never enough now...He is probably right...Short of chasing down any opportunity to be alone with me like he did with her, it may never be enough....He says we probably have more romance and sex than most people do, but it doesn't seem like that to me when I get started thinking about them together and how much effort he put into that....

And as bad as it is that she got to be the excitement and the party....worse than that is that she was that while he had ME at home, and could have had me at any time, but chose to make her the party instead....

ok, had to vent before I blow up again...this morning I snapped at him twice for little things, but I realize that the thing I am really mad at is that he wanted her when he had me...and that he wanted her so damn much...and he doesn't have to work that hard to be with his wife...It all always comes back to that...

Marie, it's good that you recognize who owns this one. It's good that you recognize your angry attitude may push your husband away.

Now the hard questions.

What is your anger telling you? (Have you read Harriet Lerner's "Dance of..." books, starting with "Dance of Anger"?)

What do you get out of remaining angry...do you get to avoid reconnecting with your H? Reconnecting can be RISKY business for betrayed spouses, for it may set up another hurt, unless they're doing all the right things.

Have you told your H what you want from him? If you have, and if he's not doing it...are you angry because of that? Don't let him get away with the "nothing I would do will be good enough" excuse. If you've been clear about needing the "sneak off to a hotel" thing and extra romantic things that you've defined, and he hasn't done them, maybe that's why you're angry. If he starts doing some of this stuff, maybe you can move on past anger.

Chris.

Chris wrote:

<<What do you get out of remaining angry...do you get to avoid reconnecting with your H? Reconnecting can be RISKY business for betrayed spouses, for it may set up another hurt, unless they're doing all the right things.>>

Chris, I know you hit on something here because this brought me to tears as I am sitting here...How can I believe he loves me when he was so into her? How could he risk our marriage to be out playing with her? How could he lie to my face for the privelidge of having sex with this drunk piece of garbage??? How could he want to spend 12 hours in a motel room with her and not with me????? How could she be so damn important to him, even for even 5 minutes (as he says)???? He was supposed to be mine....
I want to feel valued...I want to feel important....I don't know how he will be able to prove to me that I am...You are right though...I guess I am scared, because a part of me feels like I must be stupid and crazy to trust him again...

Deep Breath.....

Mary,

I am not sure of our 'story' so I apologize in advance if you already posted it. Mary, I 'assume' the affair is no longer, that OW is out of the picture... so.... why do you keep her alive? why give 'her' so much power over you??

Mary, you are neither crazy nor stupid, dear, you are hurting.

<<<< He was supposed to be mine....<<< I believe I understand your statement, HOWEVER we do not own our spouse and they do not own us...


And as you walk you make your path Kat

Marie: Something is not right, something has triggered this for you big time. Trust your gut about what you are feeling, never let your feelings be diminished. It's important that you feel good about yourself, get rid of the demons. My X told me over and over and over that he felt like he was walking on eggs with me because I would question him about WHY he didn't call, etc. The bottom line was that he was triggering my distrust by his actions. We KNOW when something is not right, our radar goes off. Check your gut feelings, what are they telling you? Are you being respected, valued, listened to? Do actions match words?

I am having a hell of a time today too, and my relationship is over, maybe it has to do with Memorial Day. Maybe tomorrow will feel less wobbly.

Peace to you sister.

Judy

"H says no matter what he does for me, it is never enough now...He is probably right...Short of chasing down any opportunity to be alone with me like he did with her, it may never be enough...."

Marie

I'm sorry your hurting so badly. I remember very clearly feeling that even when my ex and I were working things out well (or so I thought anyway) that he never did the things with me that he did with her. He made attempts to have me meet him for lunch like he had with her (a lot) but I never felt quite as important knowing what he had done and all the effort he took with her. I felt second best. I'm glad that is over with and he's out of my life and I'm not saying that you should do that. Perhaps as another poster said though, you could be feeling something that you should not ignore...

Charlie

Howdy Marie,

Just a quick response here since I'll spend 10 minutes editing it .

Assuming you have told your H what you need have you also explained to him WHY you need these things? He honestly might think this is all about having sex in the car when its so much more than that to you.

Tell him "I need this and this is WHY I need it..." If he still doesn't go for it ask him WHY. Would doing those things trigger him? Maybe he thinks you are worth alot more than a quickie in the backseat.

Maybe y'alls communication is off. You say "X" and he hears "Y".


Tex

Edited: Cause my typing sucks.

Edited again cause it still sucks.

Tex wrote<<<Maybe y'alls communication is off. You say "X" and he hears "Y">>.

I was wondering this too. A few people have already asked this, but is it a matter of you telling your husband what you need, yet he still isn't doing it? Or does he just not understand what it is you need and why? I think if he understands and still is not doing it, then that's different than if he just doesn't understand exactly what it is you need.

Marie, do you think it's a matter of poor communication. Or do you think he's just not willing to do what you are asking? 

GT

Look Tex, no edits.  

me either

end of t/j

Tex wrote:

<<Assuming you have told your H what you need have you also explained to him WHY you need these things? He honestly might think this is all about having sex in the car when its so much more than that to you.>>

Thanks Tex....Maybe I have not been so direct about sex in the car..I always kind of say that in a flirty way, which makes it even more annoying that he doesn't go for it!!!!

I have been very vocal and direct about spending time alone together in general...I honestly think he thinks he is "doing good and trying hard"...We usually do go out at least once a week...It has been a week since we went out and we also have not walked at night as we try to do several times a week, (mostly because of weather and getting home late from kids activities, etc)...Saturday we talked about going out, but then it turned into a kid's night out...Not that I am so picky...I would consider going to get a cup of coffee and driving around going out....Sometimes we do that after we go out with he kids...

I think what he doesn't get is the intensity with which I need him to WANT to spend time with me...When we don't spend time alone for a few days, I want him to NOTICE and start something...He thinks everything is fine, and I am waiting for him to notice it has been days since we did anything alone together..I don't want to always be the one saying "we haven't gone out in a while"...And when I don't feel especially wanted, I feel like he doesn't really love me, will never want me like he wanted her, he jumped at every opportunity to be with her, etc...Blah, blah, blah...off to the races....

<<Tell him "I need this and this is WHY I need it..." If he still doesn't go for it ask him WHY.>>

I think I do this...but I'll try to be more concious of whether I do or don't...I think he gets it in a general way, but gets busy with other things around the house and whatnot and thinks he will get to it later...He thinks we spend more time together than most couples do...I tell him but for now I need more!!! So, I think it is like this: I say X, and he thinks Y is the same as X, but it isn't...if that makes sense....

""...And when I don't feel especially wanted, I feel like he doesn't really love me, will never want me like he wanted her, he jumped at every opportunity to be with her,"

Marie

What comes to my mind a little as I read that is that I think us BS's also have to remind ourselves that what they (spouse and OM/OW) had was a fantasy world. In reality, you can't keep up with what they had even though it would be ideal. They didn't share the committments, the bills, the kids together, the everyday constant attention that they must pay to a spouse. I mean, they made time when they really shouldn't have and I know for my ex he was taking time off work when he really shouldn't have for her because he knew in order to sustain that fantasy, he needed to make OW think she was more important than I was.

Maybe I'm not the perfect person to be talking about this because I am now apart from him but we were making it work fairly well after his A for over a year even though long-term it didn't work. I know that after his A, I also needed him to do some of the things he was doing for her, such as, I wanted him to take a lunch with me in the middle of the day like he had with her a lot. He did start doing this and it made me feel good. I remember thinking at first that I wanted him to take me to some hotel in the middle of the day or evening (after or during work for him) for some intimacy because he did that with her and I felt he must have really wanted her a lot, but when I though about it longer, I realized that those are the things that people in A's do and I didn't want to do what I thought was lowering myself to that level and I also thought that I didn't want anyone in the hotel management to look at me the way they probably looked at those who had a room for a few hours only - I mean they know what is going on, they're not that stupid. Having a REAL relationship with a spouse is far better than a lousy hotel in the middle of the day, and I began to think that I would feel cheap if I subjected myself to the same things they did. Maybe not everyone feels this way but I did.

It does sound like your spouse is trying but I'm willing to bet that GT may be right, that it does remind him of his A if he repeated some of that sneaking or not sneaky behavior but there are easy things to do like lunch breaks or other things like that.

Charlie :>)

Charlie wrote:

<<BS's also have to remind ourselves that what they (spouse and OM/OW) had was a fantasy world. In reality, you can't keep up with what they had even though it would be ideal. They didn't share the committments, the bills, the kids together, the everyday constant attention that they must pay to a spouse.>>

Charlie, thanks, I know you are 100 percent right about all of this...it just sucks that the OP who really doesn't deserve to be the fantasy, gets to be the fantasy...the one they can't wait to be with, the one they think about all the time...I know I read that this is not real, and I know in the end she got her butt kicked because he dropped her like a hot potato when I said I was leaving...so why do I still feel so undesired by him? Last night H initiated a date...Just what I wanted...We went out to eat, then took a drive to the water...Got out, looked at the water, got back in the car just as it was getting dark, it was all very nice...I was feeling romantic...then he started the ingnition and we were on our way home...once home, he sat in his chair in our room and fell asleep...I was crying again, just knowing he would not have started that car up if he was with OW...and he certainly would not have fallen asleep in the recliner if she was available for sex...So maybe he is right and there is no pleasing me now, though at least this time I didn't wake him up and start fighting about it. I don't know...Maybe I am just warped beyond repair...I know I am not supposed to compare myself to her and what they had...I just wish I could feel as desired as she was...and at the same time, I know I never will be because I am the "wife"...always available, no need for any urgency....

<<I mean, they made time when they really shouldn't have and I know for my ex he was taking time off work>>

I know...H now looks back at how he let things go around the house and with the kids when he was involved with OW...He says he feels good about himself now that he is doing the right things again to take care of the family..He also did take time off work to be with her...Again, it sucks that they would do anything or give up anything to be with that friggin OP....It sucks that sex with that OP is soooooooooo important to them....I guess I have to just start to accept it eventually...For a short period of our marriage she (or the A) WAS that important to him, even if it was for stupid reasons...

Sorry for the rant and the ramble...This area is such a major stumbling block in my recovery...I know you guys are all right about the fantasy, not comparing, etc....but my heart doesn't get it...my heart still struggles with that woman being so friggin important to him, especially when there is absolutely nothing great about her at all...Yet, how did she become worth almost ruining our marriage over? How did he stop sleeping with me (out of guilt) to continue sleeping with her?? What was so friggin great about it??? The sex he describes is positively drab compared to what wwe have...Why does the OP get to be the fantasy??..H says it could have been anyone...that it wasn't her as much as the illicit sex that he was into...she was just low enough to sleep with a married man...but it still hurts to feel like number 2 sexually....

Thanks again to anyone who made it through all of my latest insanity!