On a whim yesterday morning, I checked out a site that OW's exH posts on. I was horrified to read a post that he posted the night before that OW was killed in a car wreck this past week.
I am beyond words to describe the emotions I'm experiencing, which seemingly defy all logic.
My H and OW had an affair 8 years ago this summer, and suffice it to say that I do believe he fell in love with her, and perhaps she with him, I don't know. But I saw his grief and heard his testimonies for years after, and please, for the sake of this post, understand and accept that all evidence indicates that he still carries those feelings about her, although committed to me. I've come to see the whole relationship (theirs) as a star-crossed lovers type of thing; it happened, it didn’t work out, but he has never forgotten.
Having said that, I don't have any reason to believe that they ever kept in touch during these years, although there was never any way for me to know that for sure. What is for sure is that H doesn't know that I have tracked her occasionally, and now here I sit with this information.
H and OW used to drink together, and that was certainly a factor in the relationship. He told me once that she could actually keep up with him, drink for drink. As it turns out, she died in a one-car wreck, 2 o'clock in the morning and not wearing a seatbelt, went off the road and overcorrected straight into a tree, and she was almost 3 times over the legal limit for alcohol at the time. She was 42 and engaged to be married. She leaves 2 elementary school age kids who she lost custody of several years back and who live with the exH in another state.
Her exH posted that she had no insurance and that the family was trying to raise money to bury her. He posted the address of her sister, who lived in my town 8 years ago and was the reason the OW came here to begin with, but who now lives in Florida, asking for donations to be sent there. Good Lord. Talk about human tragedy.
I sit here shell shocked. Why in the HELL do I keep feeling bad about this?? I will not tell him, but not doing so means I carry the burden of knowing something that I believe would affect him deeply. What kind of coincidence is it that I visited that website hours after the news was posted, when I hadn’t been there in months?
It doesn’t matter the effect she indirectly had on my life; what I feel is pity for what I see as a very sad life during the last 8 years. And deep sadness for her children. I guess it’s the human side of me…but when I look at my H, I feel sorrow for him as I would if he had lost a parent or sibling. But he doesn’t know. And I’ll have to figure out a way to deal with my own feelings, once again, alone.
I am just boggled at my reaction to this. I take a step back, and look at myself, and I do not understand why. I actually shed tears yesterday, if only a few.
I am so sorry your feeling like this. I wonder if perhaps you don't feel a sense of closure knowing that she is gone completely and can never touch your marriage again. It is sad, I would cry too. As a mother she was obviously very destructive to her children, as a wife she wasn't very good either. Anybody should have enough compassion though to see the tragedy and the human side of her. To somebody somewhere I am sure she was a loving, caring, good person. She was still a mother, still a daughter, an aunt, etc.
Your a caring human being so don't kick yourself for being upset.
As for whether you tell your H......that is up to you. Will this news eat you up inside if you try to hold on to it? Do you feel okay keeping this "secret" from your H? That is up to you to be able to live with, not us. It is true some things are best left unsaid for sure. This may be one of those times.
>>Why in the HELL do I keep feeling bad about this?? <<
I'll bet you know as well as me. Your first post dealt with the fact that there has never been any kind of resolution to your H's affair.
Anymore, it rarely suprises me that alcohol is somehow involved in an affair. I'll bet you are right that the OW's life during the past 8 years (or more) has been truly miserable. I believe that you are a truly lucky person because the feelings that you have now are feelings of pity and sadness for two people who have suffered. I don't write that to comfort you or in the hope of making you feel better about what has happened.
Perhaps this is one more step towards making it possible for her tormented ghost to rest in peace.
After I posted, the tears just poured out of me, and with them, all of the screwed up emotions. I don’t cry often anymore, but those definitely needed to come out. Anyway, I think I might have a clue to what happened now; at least I’ve come up with a theory that seems to satisfy, and really, that’s all I needed to do. Writing it down does work wonders.
It seems to me that I’m assuming the pain and sense of loss onto myself that I believe my H would be feeling if he knew. Screwy as that may sound. Because truth be told, I never harbored any identifiable feeling for the OW one way or the other; I didn’t hate or blame her, ever, but even as I read of her travails over the years, I also never felt any sympathy. The worst I can ever remember thinking was when I learned that she had lost custody of the children, and I thought to myself that perhaps she would now have reason to cry her guts out as I had done when I thought I was losing my H to her. Because I believe that experiencing that kind of pain makes people more compassionate sometimes. Other than that, though, I was only curious to know where she was from time to time so that I wouldn’t be knocked flat like I once was if my H were to connect with her again. It wasn’t fear, really; it was the desire to be aware so as not to be caught off guard. Whatever was going to happen was going to happen, and I wanted some advance knowledge of the possibilitiy.
Anyway, I wasn’t expecting what I read yesterday, and I know enough about myself that when I am shocked by something that I haven’t previously considered, my guard at the gate of emotions gets flattened and out they rush, ready or not. Those emotions for someone I really had no feeling for just didn’t make any sense. When I got rid of the raw emotions this morning, it gave my head it’s first chance in the last 24 hours to make a more balanced assessment, I guess.
I don’t know if my assuming my H’s grief (my perception of his grief) speaks more to the deep connection we share (whether we’re aware of it on an everyday basis or not), or if it speaks more to my overall sanity or lack thereof. Lol. No matter, really, at this point. It seems to fit for now that that’s what I’ve done. You nailed it with this “Anybody should have enough compassion though to see the tragedy and the human side of her. To somebody somewhere I am sure she was a loving, caring, good person. She was still a mother, still a daughter, an aunt, etc..” That is the extent of my personal feelings about it. I really think everything else I felt belongs to my H in some pseudo-subconcious way (how's that for some new jargon!). Perhaps I’ll arrive at an even clearer conclusion as the hours and days go by, but for right now, I'm just relieved to have some sort of theory to start with.
I do appreciate your compassionate response, Kid. In all my years reading here I’ve seen countless different topics of affair recovery covered, but very few stories about marriages that survive in the face of a BS still carrying feelings for an OW, and never once do I recall a BS posting about their grief at the loss of an OW. I am well aware of how strange a situation this is to this board, and so I appreciate your response even moreso. And I do feel much better, FWIW. Thanks again.
You remember that first post. Almost 5 years ago. I’ve come quite some way since then, but not the conventional path. I suppose I did ultimately come to my own resolution, but again, not a conventional resolution. No matter what logic opposed me, I still always came to the conclusion that I was better off staying here. Even when I was answering the question of whether to stay or go on an hourly basis. Lol. You’re absolutely correct though; we never came to that part where he forsook all others, never came to the discussed and mutually agreed upon reason why, never got an apology that made me feel good. Still, I am at peace with my choices, and for a long while I didn’t think I’d ever be at peace again.
It doesn’t surprise me either about alcohol and affairs. And it was a major factor in this one, because I wasn’t drinking with him, and she of course was. So the irony of the circumstances of her death didn’t escape me. And I think if my H did know that, it would be the factor that would affect him most. But that’s just speculation, of course. The fact is that he has struggled in recent years to curb his drinking significantly, and while the successes have been hit and miss, this most recent attempt does seem to be the most sincere yet. He has changed a lot, but I know it is very difficult for him to maintain. He does seem to understand my position about it (when I can tolerate no more, I will be gone) and has a sense of where the line may be drawn. Instead of keeping one toe on the line most of the time, he has seemingly taken several steps back away from it. I’m encouraged, but not unrealistic.
And, even in the hours since I posted this morning, I’m now thinking that maybe those initial emotions were all about feeling sorry for H, as opposed to doing his grieving for him. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll never figure it out because maybe it was a mixture of many unresolved issues, as you suggest. All I do know is it does seem to have been a temporary reaction, and maybe it should be just left to “it was what it was, whatever it was”. I just hadn’t ever been in that situation before, and it seems unlikely at this point that I will be there again anytime soon.
I do wish her peace. Thanks to you, Quinn for responding. Just like Bart used to do. Always good to hear from an old friend.
Lily - I'm not surprised at all that you've had such feelings in response to this news. OW was someone close to you in one way - someone who affected your life significantly. It may not have been positive, but it certainly was one which touched emotional matters.
You can't always explain an emotional response. Sometimes you just have to flow with it whether it makes sense or not. Maybe it's not the response you would expect, but it can also be like laughing at a funeral. It just happens sometimes- an unexpected emotional release.
Stay with it and figure out if sharing & discussing this is something that could bring you and your spouse together in the sharing, or if it is something you can be ok with keeping as a secret. Keep in mind that he may find out about it eventually anyway, and you would have to deal with his reaction then. No one can answer for you. It is not an easy choice to make. But I wish you well in your considerations.
-Rob
Hi Lilly: When I read your post earlier I could not even think what to write, there were so many emotions. I was comforted by Kid's response and her compassion for touching on the right things to say to you...that is why this board is so valuable, usually someone can reach out with just the right stuff.
I think from my own experience of being a compassionate person and connnecting with dozens of other people who are caring and compassionate, that we don't differentiate between who we reach out to, even if we have been hurt by that person. Such a gift to have the big heart that you have, and so many others have who have forgiven and forgiven still again.
You will figure out how to deal with the news and its telling.
This morning, as I was dealing with some very difficult decisions in my own life, I found myself faced with a sign on a bulletin board, posted in a church where I was attending a non-religious meeting. I am not a church person, BTW, so being there was just a coincidence (Hmmmm). It was right at eye-level and like some magnet for my eyes as I made my way out the door. It said "If God brings us to it, God will bring us through it".
Sometimes messages come to us in very round about ways. I don't mean to imply this as a preaching thing, as I think we can substitute any word for God (the universe, energy, spirit, etc.) and could even say, "If we're brought to it, we will get through it," but it resonated with me today and I just felt like passing it on.
It's a strange situation, in the sense that for any one of us, it's so...unfamiliar. Things are mixed up.
When someone dies untimely, compassionate people are moved emotionally and want to reach out in some way, I think.
While I was still married (two and a half years ago now, I think) my wife came into my office one evening to tell me that an old friend had called while I was out. He had told her that my first SO had died (we were never married but had a 4-year exclusive relationship).
At first, I thought "so what, we haven't even been in the same room in more than 15 years and I don't know anything about her life anymore."
Then it sank in and all kinds of weird stuff started going through my brain.
First, I called another friend from that era and talked. Then I remembered that she was a wife and mother and daughter and sister. I had never met her husband or her daughter (much younger than my children), but I knew her parents and siblings.
I hadn't talked to them in more than 20 years, but at one time, I was welcomed by her family...so I took the time to write a letter of remembrance and sympathy to her parents. I shared a somewhat sanitized funny anecdote, and expressed my condolences.
Someone should grieve a dead wife and mother and sister and daughter, and those who hold them should share memories to their loved ones. I was one of those someones.
It probably seems the punchline will be "tell him".
I can't really say for sure what I'd do in your shoes. While it might make you feel better (resolve your feelings somewhat), it will open up that whole can of worms again for you both. It might introduce a sense of loss and grieving. It might open up fantasies or romanticized "what if" scenes. It might bring more drunkenness. Only you know best what is likely to happen. Trust your gut.
i can understand how you feel and i think it is pretty normal
i know my H still has fond feelings for the OW, not matter that it didnt work out for them and we are still together. at the end of the day i know he cares for her, regardless of the fact he loves me etc etc.
i thought after i read your post and i thought if if that happened to the OW my H would be very upset, and in some ways (god cant believe i am writing this) but rightly so, because she was a significant part of his life. of course he would be sad and i would be concerned for him in his sadness. i guess that is love hey.
the only thing i would be thinking is "is this really true?" "how can i find out if it is true?" if it is, i would then be thinking "how can i tell my H how i know this?, is there a general way of knowing, eg reading the papers, watching the news, reading the death notices etc etc etc.
i would probably mention it to H, but be clear that i wasnt saying it because i was wanting to do a "High 5" but to let him know something that you think he would want to know. then maybe leave him for a bit and let him know you are there to talk to him about it, if he wants to. he may not want to (i must admit i would find that difficult because i would want to hear his thoughts/feelings, it would be a bit like a d-day, wanting to know his thoughts etc)
either way it is a tough thing, and i understand your feelings. see if you can find some more info about the 'truth' of it, although it isnt usually a thing people would say if it wasnt true, but there are some odd people or rather people have some odd motivations.
who knows, you H may already heard about what has happened or read it somewhere, so it might be worth checking out that you both know the information.
“You can't always explain an emotional response.”
Amen to that, Rob. This one was seemingly from out of nowhere.
“It's a strange situation, in the sense that for any one of us, it's so...unfamiliar. Things are mixed up.”
Yes, sir, Chris, they certainly are. It doesn’t get much stranger or mixed up than this for me. And if all these feelings are normal, then I hate to see what f*cked up looks like. I mean, I thought I knew that already. I was wrong.
“…that whole can of worms…”
I’m holding that can in my hands, aren’t I? The only way to keep it sealed up is for me to do nothing. Say nothing. I’ve gone over all the scenarios I can think of, and I’m siding with the “bygones” right now. If it was some divine intervention that created this unfortunate situation, then I’m afraid that someone made a mistake picking me as a messenger. As Kid suggests, I’ve come to the conclusion that this is better left unsaid, at least by me. It may be that he “deserves to know” in some weird way, yes. But I’m going to allow that to happen some other way. Right or wrong, I’m keeping this one to myself for now. And you know what else? I’ve also entertained the thought that maybe, just maybe, I don’t “deserve” to be the one who has to tell him...
Kath, thanks for your post. I didn’t realize our stories had that similiarity. And I did check the story because the exH gave very little information; I saw the obit and the newspaper article online. There’s no mistake about it. We are more than 1000 miles from there, so it just happened to be my “lucky day” to come across the news as I did.
There was a graveside service set for this morning, and at the appointed hour I said a short prayer, and that was it. It may have surprised me at first that I cared at all, but I am glad to find that I did, even though I am absolutely drained today. As Judy said, I was brought to it, and now, at the very least, I rest assured that time will allow me to pass through it.
This sure was a doozy of a weekend. Thanks to all for the very straighforward and comforting posts.
I think keeping canned worms canned might just be a good choice a lot of the time.
If you asked me (and you didn't), I'd lean the same way as you. I don't see the moral offense in keeping this information to yourself UNLESS your vows included a promise of complete openness about everything.
I don't know what to say really. For me your post is both intriguing and disturbing.
I'm not married to him any more and he's back seeing the ow. I have thought about that type of news, and my imagined emotional response is flat as a pancake.
I'm intrigued by your compassion. Mine doesn't seem to reach that far.
My X cheated in his last marriage as well, with a woman I'll call Reba. I knew who she was and had met her several times over the years. Didn't much care for her either. That affair was on and off for 10 years. It wreaked absolute havoc on the family (wife and two young girls). Also, on and off, the girls tried to befriend their father's lover. After the affair ended, and as they matured, they seemed to harbor more anger and disgust as they grew in understanding of what their mother had endured.
I met him at the end of this 10 year affair with Reba. It was 2 years after separating from his X.
Eventually Reba learned the knews that I was pregnant, and was upset by it. She tried to slip him a sweet little good-bye note(?) via his oldest daughter. I remember seeing it--with her tiny ultra-neat handwriting on the outside of the envelope. I told him, "If you open that, we're through." He didn't. He got rid of it.
Eight years into our marriage, during his current affair, and before my d-day, he was informed that Reba had died a pretty rough death from cancer in her early 40's.
He grieved. He said they were good friends and that he wished he had opened her envelope. For me, that was a defining moment in the marriage too.
I remember when his X was told about the death. Her response was, "Oh." No emotion.
I don't have any particular reason for sharing this, other than this is what came to mind for me from your post.
I hope you are finding your way through this, Lilly. Maybe the tears were somehow healing? Cathartic? Sometimes they are.
<<<<<<<<I am just boggled at my reaction to this. I take a step back, and look at myself, and I do not understand why. I actually shed tears yesterday, if only a few.>>>>>>>>
Call me off the wall...
You are/were sitting on information which could/will hurt your H deeply and your tears the way I see them were not so much for you but for your h if you were to tell him. Like grieving in his sted.
I would tell him - but I am not in your shoes and as removed as I am it is 'easy' for me to say: "Dear, I am so sorry to tell you... she was killed in a car accident. I am here for you if you want to talk".
Use your intuition on this Lilly. It seems as though your intuition brought you this information. Now let it guide you as to what needs to happen with it.
It was a hellish day, but I so appreciate the input here. I was hoping I’d hear from you, RW. Your story made me think in a bit different way than I’d been doing the last 4 days. Found a little more insight. A little at a time is ok, as long as it doesn’t take too long. It’s already been too long.
I am indeed trusting my intuition with this. It’s been telling me to hold off. The worms will keep just fine in the can for as long as they need to.
About 90 minutes ago, H’s sister called to say that their 87 year old mother had to put her 15 year old dog down today. Kidney failure. We had always hoped that the dog would outlive his mom because that dog was her life. So, I take the call, and then tell him the story (he was sitting right there, and pretty much already knew.) And right away, he’s going “Poor Peaches! Poor Peaches! She went so quick! She was fine and jumping around like she does just last week!” And then he gets up, walks around, sits back down, gets back up, plays with the cat, says something else about Peaches, and finally, he went to bed. I can’t recall ever seeing anything like that from him. It was just…strange.
So, in the words of that Blue Collar Comedy guy: “There’s Your Sign!”
Hi, RW. Just so you know, your post brought me to consider the differences between our two stories, and I think maybe, a better explanation for why I did feel kind of bad about this whole sorry thing. You and I both dealt with alcohol and violence (although the violence I dealt with was rare and never physical abuse; Perhaps the most poignant words I ever read on Arrow were these: "I can't stand to wear turtlenecks anymore.") (Amen to you getting OUT of that marriage!) Beyond that, though, the OW in your case was a great contributing factor to the destruction of your marriage, whereas my H's OW was not. I totally understand why you know you would feel zilch emotion. I know this is strange (so what else is new?), but I really did not hate the OW; indeed, I was readily aware of why she would be attracted to him. Even stranger, perhaps, is that I gave her some credit for cutting her losses and leaving when it seemed apparent that H was not able to commit (drawing a fine line between giving credit for ending the relationship and having any other type of respect.) I'm ok with feeling pity and even a little sadness on a personal level, but I was as intrigued and disturbed as you at first. If OW had stayed here the extra 2 months as originally planned back then, though, I likely would have seen things today just as you do. I knew something she obviously didn't: she just about had him in the bag when she left.
Chris, thank you for sensing the "frailty" of our current situation at home. H is waging war on his demons, trying to find more and better reasons to stay sober, and yes, it is a war. I am right there with him. He is winning more battles recently. News like this would be like an ambush, the potential for destruction is so great. If it were about anybody else--and I mean ANYbody else--of course, it would have to be told, no matter the consequences. But this is so....unnecessary.
I think that sometimes, when something is destructive and unnecessary, we can conclude that what's "right" may not be what's best. Frankly, I hope he doesn't find out for a long, long time. But if and when he does hear about this, I bet I'll be of much greater benefit to him having already processed it myself.
Anyway, Day 5 sure looks a lot different than the last 4. I'm looking forward to getting some real work done here today.
I gathered up some bookmarks this morning (literally), and closed the book (figuratively).
I feel like a living example of how curiosity (almost) killed the cat. Except I think whoever coined that little ditty left out the part about the torture, first. Lol.
The OW contributed to the destruction of this marriage only in that she filled the needed enabling role--Kept things rolling with her role, so to speak.
Had I kept that role myself, he'd still be my problem, at least if he hadn't terminated my life by now.
I heard her on the phone a couple years ago laughing that I may have died falling off a cliff while skiing in Colorado. I haven't been to Colorado in 17 years, but in her mind that's where I was. Anyway, my death was a hilarious topic as she tried to get the X engaged in her mental video. ha ha ha.
She divorced a recovered alcoholic, and embarked upon a relationship with an abusive, philandering alcoholic.
The only sympathy I have for her is that she's a dumb girl, and there is much she does not know nor want to. Aside from that she exhibited an astounding level of self-absorption. Mean....in spite of what she subjected so many people to. Therefore, my feelings for her closely resemble my feelings for cow dung.
Who knows. One day she may find herself horribly deceived.
Not to put too fine a point on it but .... you've decided not to tell your h about the death of his alcoholic ex-whatever because he is battling a drinking problem of his own at the moment?
I have been reading this thread with interest and agreement with almost all of the posts. Especially the ones that say you have to do what you have to do to be at peace with yourself.
Having said that, it seems to me that you are taking on this "secret" and it is adding stress to your life, bothering you to tears, and causing many other peripheral questions (baggage) that may or may not have anything to do with the real issue: To tell important information or not.
It sounds to me that there is power in you knowing and being able to contol this information. Understantable under the circumstances, of course, but power used in a way that ultimately will hurt another person brings up many questions, as you have indicated. But, what toll is this "secret" taking on your health? Down the road it no doubt will surface, as things tend to do, in the most inopportune and surprising manner.
I have a very good friend who finds it very difficult to ever tell bad news or say no to others. She will go to great lengths to get around being in that situation. I am at the other extreme: I just dive right in there and say what needs to be said and let the chips fall. Needless to say, our communication together teaches us to be more moderate, towards the middle, because both of us have seen our extremes cause huge problems and stress for us. Sometimes I need to just sit on my hands and be quiet and sometimes she needs to speak up. Over the years we run things by each other to see if we are at the extreme or in the middle. What a good friend she is to have!
Hoping you will find the path to what will work for you,
I just wanted to say that I hope you're feeling better. If I had recieved news that the OW died, I don't think I would feel anything. She has taken up too much space in my mind and I've given her too much energy that has taken joy away from my life.
Dying is a part of life.
As far as telling my H, well that wouldn't come up because the OW is a friend of his family and they would tell him.
I really hope you find some peace in this situation.
Yesterday I had a great day, and we topped it off with a great evening. Today was even better than yesterday. Tomorrow, I will kick even more butt at work, and then watch all the kids play slow pitch on their quite unskilled but oh, so funny team. (Never mind that I have to work all weekend to make up for the days I “missed” earlier in the week. Whatever.)
I’m driving a little slower, and celebrating the fact that I’m alive.
<<Does that sound accurate?>>
Despite a nagging sense that I’m being drawn into something deeper with your simple question, Quinn, I will indulge you with my simple answer. Yes.
Judy, I do appreciate your concerned and caring post, but if I understand what you’re trying to say, I guess I can be blunt (lol): I don’t think I am too much like your friend.
MM, I do feel much better. Like you feel when the virus that had you down for a week is finally expelled.
So, anyhow, Monday morning on the way to work I heard “Unwell” by Matchbox 20. Hoo, boy. At the end of the song, Rob Thomas actually said “Lilly, I’m sending this one out to you.” (Ok, not really. But it wouldn’t have surprised me one bit if he had. At that point, nothing would have surprised me.)
Tonight on the way home, thinking that I wanted to at least finish off this thread, the man I’ve loved for 30+ years sang this song that ultimately became a mantra of sorts for people world-wide:
I wake up to the sound of music
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom
Let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah, let it be.
There will be an answer
Let it be.
Oh, let it be, let it be.
Yeah, let it beeeeee, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom
Let it be.
And, although there is no catchy tune that I know to go with these words, they sure ring as true to me as anything Lennon/McCartney ever did (or is that McCartney/Lennon now?):
<<Maybe this "information" was just for you to know, a gift. Maybe telling or not telling is not the issue at all.>>
Thank you, H2C. Thanks all.
