I went to an amazing class at the college last night for fun. It was entitled "Rebuilding after Divorce, Trauma or Loss". The instructor is a lady who has been through 3 divorces (2 of which were affair related) and actually knows who Peggy Vaughn, Shirley Glass, etc are! There are 5 of us students (2 males, 3 females). We went around the table and gave a brief "what happened to us". The first lady was seperated 3 weeks from her alcoholic husband when he died. He was a millionaire and the family battled her to the ground to make sure she got nothing. The second was a man seperated 4 months whose wife had an affair a few years ago they never got past. The third was a guy whose wife came home one day and announced she was leaving. No warning. The fourth was a lady whose husband had an affair and expects her to just get over it! They have been back and forth and he has been in and out of the marriage and house numerous times. They are really struggling.

What amazed me is some of the things that came from that meeting. Everybody seems to feel as I do. I feel so normal LOL. We discussed how there is no support group in TBay for divorced people and how hard it is for people in TBay to meet new friends because nobody wants to make that effort. We discussed how after the seperations and affairs all our friends walked.

It was completely exhausting but so emotionally good I can't even tell you. I am going to suggest that we meet as a group once a month at Chapters once the course ends next week.

I have a bunch of material that may be useful that I will try to post later today.

Kid



ps and to think I was going to take stain glass instead lol.....and i was so nervous thinking there would be a bunch of weirdos there.....I am normal, so normal lolololol

Hi Kid.

Where do you live, I want to come to the course. How did you find out about it? What did you mean by "normal"? I don't feel normal...I used to feel normal. I feel gutted and am in so much pain I can't go out of the house for the crying. I am a wreck....This is Sage...you have been so kind to respond to a number of my posts. I need to know the magic formula....I want to get through the pain. I am the one that still is in phone contact with my X. This morning he informed me that it was important to talk to him because I "calmed his nerves"...he couldn't expand on what he meant by that. He also told me that he reads and cries every night a letter that I sent to him about two weeks ago. It was a "heartfelt" letter (5 pages) explaining to him where I was in this process....still wanting his presence in my life....trying to say to him that I could understand his need to take action in his life if he was in as much pain as I am now...of course his choice of action was deceitful, demoralizing, traumatic, etc. He simply walked out....Anyway, I can honestly say that the contact that I have with him provides me a sense of relief from the pain. I don't know why I need it. This man is a horrible person and if a friend of mine was treated by their spouse the way that I was treated, I would try to get them away from any contact. I intellectually am aware of that, but emotionally, for some reason I need the contact. I guess, for me, it is part of the process...but I realize that I am not moving forward...at least I don't think I am. I wonder when I will know if I have moved forward? I need an ephipany..a bright light, some written words, more proof???? I want to move on. I don't want to date or get involved with anyone (it's not a choice..I am an old woman)...I don't want the involvment because I want to get from ME whatever it was I got from him. My role as wife, therapist, support person, sex partner, sounding board, grounded individual in his life....is gone. That is the part that I am most upset about. Do you know what he said to me one day??? These words will forever be ingrained in my mind. He said:

"My personal life is none of your fucking business"

Such brutal words....such an enormous feeling in my gutt and the emotional turmoil that followed is indescribable.

AHAHAH. WHEN did your personal life not become my business? Obviously after he moved out and we were divorced. I guess while we were married and he was with the OW, his life was none of my business...I didn't know it then. I don't know what I am missing in my life. I know that his presence gave me energy and will....I can't even describe it. I haven't read a good descriptor of it anywhere either. How on earth could he trade the grounded, mature, committed, trusting, I know everything about you person I am/was...for a 34 year old immature, red neck (sorry), trailer trash (sorry) woman who spanks her children? How did he get to that point in his life? I feel like a perfectly good life is now being wasted. He has robbed me of himself, his children (whom I believe need a steward..father...advice) presence in their lives. He has said the most hateful things about our children too. He critizes them....they are wonderful people. Don't all parents feel that way about their own children? This man is NUTS and I want him in my life....gosh, am I nuts too????

I would enjoy your posting the references that your instructor provided in the seminar. I am trying to get my hands on the write book, article, poem, song, that will help to open my eyes and move on. Time is not helping, he is not helping....and I obviously don't have the resources to do it for myself...although I know I am the only one who can.

Thanks for listening.

Wow. Cool. It's great to hear of a class like this one.

Was that in room C239?

Ask the instructor if she could come down this way for a class too.

Overall there is huge lack of real support for something that is really HUGE .

Kid...what are the names of the books authored by the two that were mentioned in your post. That is the second reference to these authors that I have seen, but can't remember the titles of the books. Someone in an earlier post mentioned and I didn't write them down.

Thanks.

Peggy Vaughn = The Monogamy Myth
Dr Shirley Glass = Not Just Friends

Both are excellent books.

Sage we all have to go through the pain to see the light. Unfortunately it really is the only way to heal. It is like having a gapping wound and trying to put a bandage over it if you don't. Let it weep, let it slowly start to grow over and let it heal in its own time so that it leaves no scars.

To deal with the pain I started doing things for me. At first I had no idea what that was so I started trying different things. Now I am on a bowling team even though I suck haha, I go for regular massages, accept any and all invitiations to go out no matter how down I feel, work out at the gym.

Its not easy Sage but you have the strength and I know you can get through this......it really does just take time. There are no magic pills

RW - OKAY YOUR FRIGHTENING ME.......HOW DID YOU KNOW IT WAS ROOM C239 lol This woman teaches a course in Personal Development in the Winter Session that apparently has won awards in the US. She teaches this course in Hawaii!!!! She loves teaching and talking to people. Our class was 7-10 last night and first the firebell went off twice so we went outside and while we were outside we all sat on a picnic table and she kept teaching. Then we ended up staying till 10:30 and she didn't mind one bit.

The most impressive thing she did.....after we were done the class she asked each person in the group if they were okay to go home or if there was anything they needed to talk about more that night.

She said something very powerful to me. When I described my situation she said that it sounded like my H wanted to get caught in bed because he wanted out of the marriage and just didn't have the guts to tell me himself. That explains the lack of effort, the avoidance, etc. and pretty much nails the situation to a T.

She also went around the room and asked who was told "I don't love you anymore or I am not in love with you or I never loved you"........everybody answered they had heard that. She laughed and said "AREN'T THEY FULL OF BULLSHIT "

>>she said that it sounded like my H wanted to get caught in bed because he wanted out of the marriage and just didn't have the guts to tell me himself<<

I'm sure that happens quite alot in (so-called) "exit affairs".

That sounds like a terrific class, Kid. It sounds to me a little bit like group therapy. I've heard that marriage counselors sometimes recommend group therapy for couples dealing with an affair. From what you write, it seems to have some real advantages. Outside of weekend retreats like Retrouvaille, I've never heard of anyone actually trying group therapy for affair recovery. I wonder if, at least in some ways, it might be more helpful than couples counseling.

"RW - OKAY YOUR FRIGHTENING ME.......HOW DID YOU KNOW"

I use advanced technology.

"AREN'T THEY FULL OF BULLSHIT"

Man! She's good, isn't she!

>>Man! She's good, isn't she!<<

Do I detect a hint of irony here, RW?

So what does your crystal ball say about tomorrow night

That IS one high-tech looking crystal ball, RW!!

You always post the best pictures!

Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

Kid...does the instructor have a name? I would love to see if she has a web page and does workshops on this side of the country. Believe it or not, that is my profession...I hate to admit this, but I teach a course on divorce, am a divorce mediator, and teach family development and child development. I have TAUGHT all of this stuff, but never lived it....living it is more difficult than teaching it. Anyway, she sounds fantastic and I would love to have a name....see if I know her work...if she has any that has been done.

>>living it is more difficult than teaching it<<

A big "amen" to that.

Jacquie Cottingham at Confederation College in Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada.

>> I need an ephipany..a bright light, some written words, more proof???? I want to move on.<<

Then move on. You don't have to change your whole life and whole outlook at once...that's crazy, in fact.

Sage, there have been volumes written to you by those who have been there...just as there were volumes written to me (for several YEARS). What message are you getting from them?

(There are no magic words anyone can give you. You have to find them for yourself.)

Are you primarily a "thinker" or a "feeler"?

(There's a good point to that question.)



>> I don't want to date or get involved with anyone (it's not a choice..I am an old woman)...<<

I thought you wrote that you are only 56. One of my grandmothers was 61 when I was born; I was her "middle" grandchild. She lived until half her grandchildren were 40 or older; she got to know all her grandchildren as adults and to see how we all turned out as parents. THAT is old.



Chris.

Hi Chris.

I don't know...I think I am guilty of both thinking too much and feeling too much. I guess the thoughts come in first and then the emotions that accompany them...sometimes though, my "gutt" will react to something and then I have to put a label on it. Dont' know for sure. Trying to deal with this the most healthy for me way that I can...it will take a long time, I realize that. I can't wait to get there though..I used to love being the person I was...I am not sure what is "missing"...but something gave me more energy/spunk etc. than I have access to at this point in my life. Thanks for all of your kind words.

Sage, the point to my question is this.

If you're stuck emotionally, this is something that you may have to feel your way through. If you're stuck intellectually (what do I do NOW?), then maybe more thinking is in order.

You strike me as a "thinker" first, pretty calm and reserved with your emotions. (On another thread you wrote about not being angry or able to hate.)

And maybe all this questioning that you're expressing IS your way of processing it emotionally. You've written that you miss your talks with your ex-husband the most, and my guess in reading all your posts is that you relied on him a great deal to "process" (even to express) your emotions and feelings. Now you may be wondering how you will ever do that again, and maybe it's there that you're stuck.

I found it to be VERY hard work to learn how to process my feelings for myself. I didn't have the kind of marriage you did; I learned pretty early on that what I felt didn't matter a whole lot to my wife, so I learned that discussing it was pretty pointless. Before d-day I made a conscious decision to open up more to her (thinking that I'd kept my feelings buried for too long), and it certainly didn't make things go any better. (I was open about both positive and negative feelings.)

So I have become almost stubbornly self-reliant emotionally. Not stoic; I cry, I laugh, I feel all my emotions. That I don't have someone who CARES how I feel or who wants to hear it...doesn't matter to me. What matters is being true to myself and being happy, which I generally am.

Chris.