Remember when you read these stories, that there are always 2 sides. Being the person on the other side I still agree with the advice you all give. it isnt right to have affairs and I will be the first one to say that. I thought I would never be where I am today. Being rejected from your spouse is a very hard thing to deal with. Maybe it could be dealt with in a better way, but emotional and phsyical rejection can make a person "Psycho", "Fat" and feel like they should only wear a moo moo because no one cares anyway right. But when the other spouse is rejecting the person they say they love, it could be caused by depression! Right! This will cause them to get fat also and lay around doing nothing all day, yelling at the kids because they are heard and not seen, and not be able to perform physically during sex. Tell me something, if you are ever in that situation where you spouse can not perform sexually, I hope for one minute you dont feel that it is your fault. If you do, I hope it doesnt cause you to get "Fat".
Try this one, how about if you go to the doctor to get you problem fixed and you can finally get up the confidence to initiate sex with your wife and when it is all over you still go to the other room to watch television and sleep, leaving her to lay by herself crying because the being left alone after making love with your husband that says he loves you is so much worse than the performance failure. See, men dont understand, and probably never will that women DO NOT CARE ABOUT INTERCOURSE! It is the feeling of being wanted and loved that we care about. The intercourse part is all for you guys, Sorry but its true.
I understand that sex is often a way to feel loved and wanted. The physical parts of intercourse are secondary. I get that before having an affair, you felt unnatractive and rejected and unloved by your husband. I also get that you were sometimes upset by the way that he behaved after sex - for example when he went to watch television. I get that he suffered from erectile dysfunction (or something like it) and consequently was sometimes unable to have sex with you.
I have very similar feelings about sex and love (although I can't honestly say that I've ever been in a situation where my partner has been "unable to perform"). Please don't judge us too quickly. You might find a little more support here than you imagine.
Welcome STBXW. I'm not sure I understand all that you are talking about and I'm assuming it was written in a very emotional state. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing by the title that you are the former wayward spouse. With that in mind, this is a safe place for you to come for support, although it may not seem like we are very supportive of former wayward spouses sometimes. We all benefit from the sharing of situations from both the betrayed spouse and the former wayward. You will notice more tolerances from the people further along in recovery. Please don't blame or shy away from us because of some of the rawness that you may find in some of the newly betrayed people. They too, at some point, will be very willing to listen to your input as it will help them understand how their world may have fallen apart. I have gained much insight from former wayward folks.
We all know there are 2 sides to every story. I for one, would like to here more about your side. You say that you were rejected emotionally and physically by your spouse. Was that before or after the affair? Was the performance failure an issue before or after the affair?
My wife and I are still together after her affair 3 1/2 years ago.
If I'm reading your post right you were the betraying partner in your relationship? If so I can relate to that. I had an affair because I felt unloved by my husband. You'll find my story on the Members Forum. Maybe I can relate to other parts of your story as well, so please post more about yourself if/when you feel comfortable doing so.
You will find many caring and supportive people on these boards no matter which "side" of the affair you are on. And sometimes it really helps to open up and talk to other people who have been where you are.
Welcome to our site. I'm sorry you find yourself here. I don't think any of us (on either side) thought this is where we'd end up. It sounds as though you have been reading some, I'm glad you decided to post and talk to us.
I know all about intimacy problems, as I have been there.
I was having internal problems and sex was very painful making it difficult if not impossible to achieve the big O, well for me anyway. I didnt enjoy sex, I couldn't get off and I used to lay in bed afterward in tears because it hurt and probably because I felt like a failure. Hell sometimes I just shut my eyes and prayed it would be over - I became good at faking it. This was a temporary thing that lasted just less than a year and I was working with my doctor to solve it, which we did. I didn't have an affair and neither did he at that time. Although I would often lay in bed after and cry while he went in the livingroom to watch tv or do whatever it was he did. He couldn't handle any sort of emotion and tears were definitely a reason for him to in the other room. My point is I felt extremely rejected and I didn't go out and have an affair.
My point is that nobody is 100% perfect all the time. A marriage has its ups and downs, trials and tribulations. We cannot always be baby producing sex machines even if that is what our husbands want and let's face it our husbands aren't going to arrive on their horse even if that is what we dream of. Sometimes things happen just as in guys who are aging who have penile difficulties, woman sometimes have medical issues.
My point is THAT DOES NOT GIVE JUSTIFICATION EVER to have an affair. It is a marital problem and isn't going to be fixed by looking for something or somebody outside to repair the problem. The problem is between you and your spouse. You get married in sickness and health and for better or worse. If you have problems then you communicate them and reach a compromise. If a compromise can't be reached maybe divorce is the best option. Afterall why would you deliberately and selfishly hurt somebody more than you need to by having an affair? Isn't it enough to say its over.....I just don't get what causes somebody to go that extra step. Maybe I never will. Maybe because of the whole "I didn't think you would ever find out".
Yes there are two sides to every story. My side is that I have suffered an amount of pain that words cannot even adequately express. I have had my life ripped inside out and my heart broken in a million pieces and left on the floor for me to pick up and put back together. I tried to commit suicide but somebody above wanted me to stay on this earth. I know that affairs are damn painful and it has taken me 3 years to recover to the point where I can say I am now somewhat happy about my divorced state. I have found me again and that is a great relief.
Hmmmm the otherside. Well my ex is living with another woman (not the Ow) and is happier than a pig in poo.....he had the affair, he has the new truck and the new happier life without me, he got all the friends and he got to walk away from what he referred to as his "prison". Funny I don't see him suffering much because of the affair. I know that a remorseful spouse does, but that seems to be the key.
you are right, it is no excuse to have an affair! I have been trying to say that in my message. But temporary insanity or PSYCHO as he calls it took over. I wanted to get this out because no matter what my STBXH says about me, I would never tell anyone about what I just told everyone here, because that would be petty! I thought that he would never be that way, but I guess everyone has a different side to them, i proved that myself. I will go on to say that I am not proud of what i did and I think it was an awful thing. I always thought that my husband felt that I was ugly and unattractive and he always assured me that I was the most beautiful woman in his eyes. It took me having the affair for him to tell the truth and say that he thought that i was fat and ugly! I think he thought that I didnt know how he felt! he says Im fat, but he made me this way! And by the way, i am by no means trying to justify an affair. I know that was the biggest mistake I will have ever made in my life. Dont think I dont pay for that everyday of my life. I do have a lot of regret, sadness, and a lower self esteem than I had before because of this. I am very sorry for hurting the people I did, including my children, but you cant take it back..............so here I am and I will have to answer for it for the rest of my life.
Believe me, I know the pain you are feeling and how it feels like that pain will be with you every day for the rest of your life. But it doesn't have to be. You can get yourself to a point where you understand why you did the things you did and heal those wounds. You don't have to be defined by the fact that you had an affair or defined by what anyone else thinks of you.
I don't see where you were trying to justify your affair in your first post, just trying to work through why it could have happened and get some help. We all showed up on this forum because we needed support and help.
Would you like to tell us some more details? How long did your affair last? How long since it ended? Are you and your spouse still together? Maybe we can help you work through some of the issues you are facing right now.
There are many good books out there. And also sometimes counseling can get you started on the right track to recovery. You've reached out to us for a reason. And I commend you for writing that first post.
Thanks Tex! I dont think that anything I read is going to fix anything I have done but I can only move forward and try not to look back. The truth is, If it had just been an affair because I was sad and lonely it may have been easier to stop. But I continued because I fell in love with that person and vise versa. I just didnt know how to tell the truth and I was a coward because I waited for him to tell me he wanted out. I know it was a selfish thing to do but its too late. And I dont know if this new relationship will work or not, it is hard to start a relationship off with a lie....... right? Someone once told me that to love someone else you had to love yourself first, well I dont see that happening anytime soon.
I'm glad to see you posted again. If you don't mind me saying so your self-esteem seems lower than low. What would it take to help you bring it back up? To be beautiful in your own eyes?
No you can't change the past but you can do the next best thing...learn from it. You've explained what led you down that path. I thought that was very brave of you.
STBXW you nailed it, you gotta learn to love yourself first. No one can do it for you, its just a temporary bandaid.
If you don't mind me saying so perhaps you should think about being with yourself for awhile, maybe some IC and get to the bottom of this. THEN move forward in a relationship. Just a thought...
I'm glad you came back.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Oct 26, 2005 7:05 PM
Tex thank you. Just to clear it up, I am not blaming my ex for my self esteem problems, they are my issues and no one elses, but if he felt that way, it explains why he could stand to look at me as i had expected. See the thing is, I was getting heavy, I have since lost some of the weight and feel better about my appearance than I have in a long time. Maybe it was because the guy i had the affair with, started to like me when I was Heavier and it made me feel like I was attractive. That is when I started to lose the weight. It was a good feeling to be able to turn somebody on and feel like they thought I was beautiful.
STBSW. Am I correct in assuming that your STBXH said supportive, nice things to you but you didn't believe him? In order for you to feel affirmed as a sexual woman, you sought the affirmation from another person. So..at some level you sensed his inauthentisity? Did his discorvery of the affair result in the separation/subsequent divorce? OR, did you initiate the affair? I am still somewhat confused about this. Do, at some level, you think he sabotaged the marriage? I guess I would like you to clarify how it is that the marriage has come down? Are you getting divorced? Who initiated it? Was it him because he could not work through the affair? Was it you because you now know how he has felt all along? Just curious.
I understand what you are saying STBXW. It does feel good to see yourself mirrored back positively in someone's eyes doesn't it? But(always a but right ) like I was saying earlier that's only a temporary fix. I'm concerned how you see yourself.
As good as it feels right now the negativity will rear its ugly head again until you get to the bottom of it. I don't wanna see you hurt anymore than you are or anyone else get hurt.
Soooooooooo...what's your plan for YOU?(Yup was a gentle nudge..subtle huh?)
sage, my STBXH found out about the affair because I told him.(after 2 weeks into the affair) thinking that he would not forgive me, i was ready to get a divorce. low and behold he did want to forgive me. being the selfish bitch I am, i couldnt hurt him by telling him so i agreed to try and work it out. I tried to break it off with the affair knowing it wasnt what I wanted for myself because i had already prepared myself to try because it was the right thing to do. But I couldnt! and I should have been honest with my stbxh but I couldnt do that either. I was so confused! I went from feeling that nobody wanted me to having what I thought was 2 people who loved me and now I see that my stbxh really did think the things i thought he did about me and it really hurts. I think my self esteem is lower than ever now...... i guess i got what i deserved huh!
"And I dont know if this new relationship will work or not, it is hard to start a relationship off with a lie....... right?"
From things I've read that would be very true. The percentages of relationships that actually work out are very, very low when they started as an affair. Now who knows where exactly this data comes from but I've read it over and over in various places.
"and now I see that my stbxh really did think the things i thought he did about me and it really hurts. I think my self esteem is lower than ever now...... i guess i got what i deserved huh!"
No, no one "deserves" to be in that much pain. I would be mindful though to the fact that quite often us betrayed say things to be hurtful after our hearts have been ripped out (from an A) so I wouldn't take the hurtful comments by him at face value. I know I said some things I didn't mean back when my ex had his A as well and some of it I didn't mean. Things like I didn't care if he committed suicide and stuff like that - pretty harsh. I do NOT want him to do that (not even now) and never really did but I was hurting and wanted to hurt him back. I wonder if any of us don't lash out after we catch our loved ones in A's at least somewhat.
Charlie
This message has been edited by charlie288 on Oct 26, 2005 9:41 PM
I'm still trying to figure out if you want this relationship back or not. You say that you actually wanted a divorce in so many words in one e-mail but you just couldn't tell him but in other parts of your e-mail it sounds like you still care about him - or maybe I'm wrong. How are you feeling now?
STBXW, first off, welcome to the site. It's always a good/bad thing when we see new people. Good that you found us, bad that you needed to.
From personal experience, I think Tex is right on point. My W had an affair almost 7 years ago now. The reason why we are still together is that we went on a couple of journeys. One journey was together, finding out what a real marriage and real relationship is, and what that entailed in regards to what is expected of us. The other journey was her personal journey to discover why she was susceptible to having an affair, so she could take the steps necessary to correct these things and ensure that it wouldn't happen again.
I see a lot of her in you, especially the self esteem thing. As I tell people now, her self esteem was at a subterranian level, which went back WAY before we met. The biggest thing she did for herself in our recovery was to realize that she didn't need someone else to validate her own existence. She learned to love who she is for what she is.
Together, we learned to communicate openly and honestly with each other. We don't argue, we discuss and come to workable solutions. We now have enough confidence in ourselves, each other and in our relationship to raise "touchy" issues and know that the other won't throw it in our face. It's a good feeling.
I think that for you, you might want to learn what she learned, i.e., the only person you have to impress is you.
Again, welcome!
Cory
You are not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a spiritual being having a human experience.
Wasn't trying to be harsh........just honest. Everybody had warm welcoming posts and it was obvious she has been reading a bit around the site so I thought I would cut to the chase.
Tex you should know by now that I don't like coddling people.
Since I didn't say it above STBXW...welcome to our site. We do indeed gain valuable information and grow with the knowlege that comes from former betrayers. Listen to Tex he had some great suggestions.
Yes ma'am I know you don't coddle but let the newbies get their feet wet first ok? We need to get the whole story first. We don't coddle here... you know that more than anyone. We'll give it to ya straight but we gotta know the details first.
It takes alot for someone to post and see something they aren't proud of doing in black and white for the first time.
Besides the message was directed to anyone who might be triggered not one person specifically. Just a reminder.
Thanks
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Oct 27, 2005 12:44 AM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Oct 27, 2005 12:34 AM
We are all speaking from decades of combined experience here at this site. So let’s recap some of your statements. Please keep in mind that this is intended to help.
You say your self esteem is at an all time low.
You say that your self esteem is not your husband’s responsibility but you blame him for you becoming “fat”.
You say that your H was telling you that he loved you but that you were not feeling loved prior to the affair.
You say that there were marital problems that didn’t get resolved but that that is no reason for you to have an affair.
Your stbxh found out about the affair because you told him.
Your stbxh said some really hurtful stuff upon finding out. (This is normal by the way. Show me a BS that didn't say some hurtful stuff to their betraying spouse. Not saying its ok, just saying its normal.)
You say that you acted cowardly and selfishly by not telling your H up front that you wanted out while involved with OM. The key here is “while involved with OM”.
You say that you live with a lot of guilt and regret.
You say that your H has really hurt you prior to the affair and after finding out.
You say that you really hurt your H by having the affair and that all the marital problems was not all his responsibility to fix.
You say that you have really hurt your children and family.
This is a direct quote. “I always thought that my husband felt that I was ugly and unattractive and he always assured me that I was the most beautiful woman in his eyes.” This was true for my wife as well and no matter how much I told my W that I loved her and tried to show her, she was not capable of believing it or seeing it because of HER OWN self esteem issues. My wife didn’t believe that she was lovable so therefore I must have been lying to her about loving her. Maybe your husband didn’t see the fat before the affair. I didn’t.
You say that you don’t think reading any of the books that people have suggested will help but you acknowledge not reading them so you don’t know for sure.
It was suggested to you that IC might do you some good to help you figure out who you are and why this happened. You didn’t respond to that at all which leaves one to believe that you didn’t try that either.
It was suggested that some time to yourself would help you figure out what you truly want but (I’m assuming here) you need to be with someone for security reasons, therefore you are with OM.
You say that you love your affair partner. How could you possibly know this with all of these uncertainties going on in your life (see above list) and under the circumstances that “you fell in love with OM”? I know that you are in a lot of pain like I was, like my wife was, like your H is, like everyone on the site at one time or another. It doesn’t matter what side of the affair you are on, pain is pain and it hurts like a son of a bitch. We all know the pain so well. I believe, like others have mentioned, that you have been reading here. I’m hoping that you have seen the term LaLaLand or the fantasy world in some of the threads here. It’s a term that implies that for a considerable period of time during and after the affair is over (and especially if you are still with your affair partner) a betraying spouse is under an umbrella of false illusions or to some extent delusional. It is strongly recommended that you or your husband not make any life altering decisions during this time of adjustment. How do you know that you love OM for sure? How do you know that the love for H is gone?
On the other hand, you could be right. It may be too late.
You’ve come here for support. You are getting it. I will support you no matter what you decide (as long as it doesn’t intentionally hurt someone). I will work with you to help you face consequences and figure things out. I will support you.
Wondering how you are doing. I hope we didn't scare you away. I hope you are still reading. We will help and support you but sometimes some of us are very much "to the point". I'm like that and I hope I didn't offend you. Please check in with us.
One last edit here because I just figured out why this story hit so close to home.
This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 3:50 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 1:34 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 12:59 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 12:40 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 11:59 AM
No, I did not think those things before. I did think she was the most beautiful woman alive. I did.
What I think now doesn't matter except to say I feel things that never before had darkened my heart. Those things one day turn to indifference.
This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Nov 1, 2005 5:21 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Nov 1, 2005 12:04 AM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 5:25 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 5:11 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 4:27 PM This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 2:10 PM
>>I get smacked with it often. And quit it Chris, Quinn, and Kat... it hurts!<<
Sure, Moe. I'll back off. Could you point me to an example of a post that went over the line for you? That would help me understand the kind of post that goes too far.
Sorry for all the edits. I struggled to reply to these with sensitivity as the stories were so close to my own, until it hit me why they were so similar to my own. Our own. Why they were identical things said.
This message has been edited by MoeGreen63 on Oct 31, 2005 4:36 PM
Has this happened much on here where the WS responds to the posts of the BS?
I have read through so many of Moe's posts from the past. I saw a time where he took every responsibility for the troubles in his marriage. Every one, but we all know that it takes two to make a marriage fail. What does STBXW accept as her failings in the marriage? Any reason to suspect the patterns will not continue in future relationships where responsibility for those failings aren't recognized, accepted, and corrected?
<<<Has this happened much on here where the WS responds to the posts of the BS?>>>
No Phoenix. Don't quote me on this but I think it was a first.
<<<What does STBXW accept as her failings in the marriage?>>>
Only she knows, hopefully she informed Moe too.
<<<Any reason to suspect the patterns will not continue in future relationships where responsibility for those failings aren't recognized, accepted, and corrected? >>>
Nope. We can only inform folks of our experiences and hopefully they will find their own way eventually.
I have just seen this too many times and it is sad. I have read of Moe's love, pain, and hope in his past posts. I have cried the hardest at his tale.
Then I read here that he made her fat. He made her yell at the kids. He, him, and his. In an exit affair this is a consistent pattern. In years of being in support groups and then speaking to them later, often times these problems did not come from outside the leaver but rather from within them and they carry these into all future relationships. The next one may not make her fat but may make her fatigued. May not make her yell at the kids but make her ignore the kids. And yes, may not make her feel unwanted but may beat or threaten her. All new relationships seem so wonderful and right at first, every one and especially those begun in the throes of drama as in an affair. But generally two years in the partners become real and the reality often is that it is two people with character issues clashing. Not always, but often and often the rule rather than the exception.
Personal issues left unaddressed will remain, there are always personal issues on both sides, and here I see no acceptance of personal issues. Unaddressed personal issues equals patterns repeating.
Certainly there are examples of things Moe did wrong. Most of these he said in his past posts. But I wonder, did he know of the crying? What discussion was had about the problem before the doctor? Were the words "we need to talk" ever muttered? I don't know how it was and I have to believe Moe knew something where he needed to reach out and didn't. But Moe didn't go outside the marriage and wanted to make it work so I have to believe he was open to a discussion had the one who was open to going outside the marriage had issues needing to be opened for discussion.
This thread struck me as both an attack and a failure to accept one's own responsibility and I warn that without acceptance of that responsibility, this new relationship likely has little hope but to have a similar, if not worse, demise.
I understand what you are saying Phoenix. I really do. I was in Moe's situation...my STBXW left for the OM. I'm just further along. I kept it in inside for 1 1/2 yrs before I even realized there was help and I don't know how much longer before I seeked it.
I'm not sure what answer an unremorseful WS can give for "closure". In my book there wasn't any.
We have to find our own closure and make a different life. What choice do we have...roll up and die? F**k that...nobody is worth giving up myself for. And why would I want to be with someone who thought that was exceptable? Sometmes life throws a curveball and you strike out...until your next at bat.
Was Moe's STBXW jutifying her actions? Perhaps. I don't feel it was an attack though or I would have stepped in as a mod as would the other moderators. She gave us her reality...and our buddy Moe gave us his. Maybe...just maybe...he got something from her posts and she got something from his.
I want both Moe and his STBXW to find peace.
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Dec 6, 2005 6:12 PM This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Dec 6, 2005 6:06 PM
