Hi All...something has been eating at me and I would like some feedback from some of you more "seasoned" people. This is Sage....I am the one who needs continued blasts with the 2x4...I am doing better. My former H spent Thanksgiving with our family...it was horribly stressful and how it transpired doesn't really matter. This is my question.....as I am recovering from this major life transition, I am the one who has read all of the books, gone to IC, stayed busy to "get through it", continued to exercise, etc. HE, on the other hand, although still with the OW, reports that he is terribly unhappy and that he will get his new life in order by the end of December. I don't know what that means...I just interpret it as "random noise". BUT, do you not think that this man would be compelled to attend some type of counseling in order to get back on some fantasy track that he has created? As previously mentioned, he is an alcoholic....his contention is that he will spend from now until December trying not to drink and that everything will be okay in his life. I realize that his life should be none of my business....but I can't help it. As stated before, I am doing better...sort of. In any event, I am still hung us somewhat on why this marriage came down in the first place. HE, on the other hand, says that he doesn't even remember being married to me (sort of hurtful...we were married for 34 years). Anyway, he has inferred that he is in the process of getting the OW out of his life...good for him, I think she has NOT been a great influence. BUT, how on earth can a person get to the point of healing if they don't think about what happened? Am I out to lunch here? I, again, realize that this should be none of my business, but I am a bit curious about it. Why isn't he? Why doesn't he want to discover more about himself and the role that he played in this? When I broach the subject with him...he says that he doesn't want to go back and that I am going back and he won't do that. I am confused. What are your thoughts, if anyone has any on this? I read the posts from those of you who are still in the marriage (I am NOT), but I am not sure that not being in the marriage negates the need to find out what happened and heal from it. If anyone can provide insight, please do. Perhaps he is one that is able to simply forget the past and go on. As an individual, I have been wracking my brain trying to determine what role I played in this.....I am certain that I played a role. BUT, it is hard to do when the person in the reciprocal role won't play....get what I mean? I guess that we (the spouse who is left) must just hang out there until what? What is going to happen for ME to be able to put closure on this? He chose to be with the OW and her children. He now says that is was a mistake and wants to have a different life. Again, how on earth, after screwing up this one so badly, is he going to do this? I don't think he can do it on his own...I don't know. This has been on my mind for some time and I just wanted to vent.
In a conversation I had with him the other night...I was indicating that I was having a hard time getting through this...his response was..."I am too. I don't have anything more in my life than you do. I have the boys and myself." That was somewhat confusing to me. I thought he was past all of this because he is with someone else...a new surrogate wife and surrogate children. So, what does he mean by that? Perhaps the guilt is what he is not over....who knows.
Thanks.
This message has been edited by Sage56 on Nov 29, 2005 4:28 PM
It's all bullshit to keep you hanging on. Why is he still calling you? Why do you let him toy with your emotions. Even if he leaves OW and came back to you. You would have what, a live in alcoholic that you can't trust no further than you can throw him? If he chose you over her do you think he would stop abusing you? Does any of this sound like "happy ever after"?
>>What is going to happen for ME to be able to put closure on this?<<
The pain of hanging on will exceed the pain of saying goodbye.
>>BUT, it is hard to do when the person in the reciprocal role won't play....get what I mean?<<
I get it. And, yes, it is hard. I'm guessing you will someday find yourself at a point when you will realize that it no longer matters what "the person in the reciprocal role" does or doesn't do. You will realize that it's your life and that you need to think about what you want (or don't want) out of life. You won't have to force yourself into thinking in a different way - it will come as naturally as breathing. For me, the transition from thinking about "we" to thinking about "me" (and sometimes "her") was long, drawn out, and very painful. But it definitely happened.
"Talk is cheap" is a favorite saying in my family.... yupe, sure enuff talk IS cheap - do you think his words and actions are congruent??? I think not !!
So, you try to analyse what he says to you, try to understand how he can/could think the way he does, how after 34 years of marriage he can discard you as he is discarding OW...You are his anchor, he is using you, placating you with smooth and criptic words...WORDS, Sage... where are the actions???
And in the mean time, you are focusing on the 'wrong' person
But, as Q said, one day, one day you'll wake up and wonder why you did what you did, why you took all those phone calls, and shared meals, why you try to share his guilt and understand him. One day, you'll wake up and tell him to go and fly a kite..... without you... time to cut the string, dear.... you were his wife, you can't turn into his mother now....you can't fix IT for him... One day...
I'm guessing that "letting go" to you means "not caring", and to a caring person, that just isn't right. It hurts to think about being uncaring.
Well, letting go simply means that you stop making your life and feelings revolve around someone else's words and actions. There is no answer to "how" to do that, nor to "when" except what Quinn has offered.
Here's the key: you simply cannot do anything for him. Zero. Zip. Nada. I truly think that's your first step. Accept that you cannot do anything for him.
"Cannot do anything for him" includes:
---thinking through his problems
---finding deep meaning in his words
---fixing his addiction
And so given that you cannot do any of those things, WHY WASTE EMOTIONAL ENERGY WORRYING OR WONDERING ABOUT THEM when doing so causes you so much pain?
Sage: what do you get out of doing his worrying? What do you get out of what you admit is painful continuing contact?
Thanks all for your words of encouragement. I am excited that there will be an end to this. I have had a little, tiny shift since yesterday. I have not cried at all today. This is the very first time in about 18 months that I have not shed a tear. I am so proud of myself. I am aware that I can't fix him....I know I can't. It just appears to be such a waste of mitochrondria that he has continued to be the pathetic person he is. As I recall, he had much more potential as a human being. I often think of a VERY DEAR friend that died recently as a result of a very progressive cancer. That man wanted to live more than anything else in his life...he was a devoted husband, father, teacher, volunteer for his youngest son's (age 18 with Downs' Syndrome) high school classroom. He died too quickly. He faced his death with such courage. He composed a most eloquent letter that he forwarded to all of his friends, explaining how sad it was to not be able to meet his grandchildren, be with his wife, etc. I keep thinking about why this man had to die and people like my former H take up oxygen....it isn't fair. I forwarded that letter he sent to me to my H...but there is no stepping outside of himself to even "get it"....someone else posted about "getting it"....some people just don't get it. I think I am beginning to FINALLY get it....I spent 2/3rds of my life in a marriage and was blessed with two wonderful children...he simply didn't want to finish the journey with his family. He felt too threatened, too intimidated, too something. He chose another finish. I dont' wish him peace or happiness..I am not there yet. I will be there some day, I think. BUT, I think that the wishing will grow out of the sorrow I feel for him, not because I have transcended to the height of maturity I so wish for myself...letting go of it all.
This message has been edited by Sage56 on Nov 30, 2005 12:26 AM
I don't have a lot of time b/c my class starts in a couple minutes but what I get from your and his comments are that you are hoping that he will want you again when this OW is out of the picture. Do you really want that? He doesn't want to know what he did wrong in your relationship so he will likely run again if he finds another, he cares little for your feelings or you getting over this whole thing and much more. I would be very careful that when he gets out of this relationship with OW that he could possibly want to be with you but not out of love or respect for you but out of wanting security in some way, ie someone to make him meals, have sex, someone to do whatever it is he's gotten out of marriage and living with OW all this time.
I think your a very decent and valuable person Sage and would hate to see you getting taken advantage of.
Hey Charlie...thanks for taking the time to respond. Yes, I admit that I do hope for that. BUT, I don't think it would come quickly and it certainly would not come without a concerted effort on both of our parts to delve into the relationship that we probably needed to delve into years ago. He NEVER will discuss anything that causes him pain. If I ever bring up the subject, or brought it up in the past, he is a master at changing the subject. It is 'CLOCK WORK' I bring up something that is unpleasant and he immediately turns to something that happened during his golf game. I often wonder how open he is with the OW....my guess is that his behavior is the same. He has obviously repeated the same old, same old. He is a bit fed up with her and I think trying to get out of that one...but, she is his office manager and runs the business....how can he get rid of her? Also, he keeps stating that he "doesn't want to hurt anyone else"....shit, he's been on a roll for two years...what's three more human souls?
Your points are well taken. I think that if it ever came to my making a decision about that (which I don't think will happen...he will simply cling to someone else who can get him out of his pain)....I would consider it a challenge....a personal challenge. I don't mean that in a sadistic way....I would certainly emotionally commit if I decided to go that route....this has all been such a nightmare.
I am a good person and I know that I have not deserved this tratement. Even a bad person would not deserve this treatment. I guess I am still stuck in the time when he was a more decent person as well. There is certainly enough evidence out there to indicate that he is no longer that person...what a waste of a potentially great human being. Thanks Charlie
Sage,
As I read your posts one thing struck me that is so similar to what my FWS did during his A ...he was on a ski weekend with OW and he called me to ask if he should go skiing because he had had a questionable heart test result...looking back on that time I asked him why did he call me? because I knew his history so I would be able to make a judgement call...I told him don't ski, but had I know about A I would have encouraged the skiing.
Sage your XH looks to you as his rock...strength....more a mom, than wife ....my H looked at me as a caretaker not wife so it was easy for him to justify his A's.
You took care of him and are still taking care of him. Sage you need to take care of you now...
Okay Pat....I agree. I guess I was more like his mother and not his wife, although that's the role I thought I had. The think what really upsets me is that SHE got to be his wife. SHE gets all of the fun trips and gets to spend time with him. I think he has spent more time with her in the last 2 years than he spent with me in the last 20.....life is NOT fair. I don't know what their relationship is like...it is probably pathetic. BUT, I know that she has been and WAS his wife while he was married to me. THAT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL. I want to throw a glass and break it. Whew. Okay....how long has it been for you and why did you not stay in your marriage? I just am anxious for the pain and memories to be gone. ENOUGH. It has been 1 1/2 years for me since d'day and I am not one step further along than that day. I want and need to get on with my life but the questions continue to plague me. I awaken at night after "dreaming" that we got divorced...DUH...I guess I am stuck. I need an anecdote...something to Unsick me. Thanks for your post....it made me sad, but most of the things I read make me sad...I wish I could go back...he just slipped through my fingers.
NO SAGE HE DIDN'T SLIP THROUGH YOUR FINGERS...........he pulled himself away from your fingers and went and fucked somebody else!!!!
This is NOT your fault. You did nothing. Stop tearing yourself up wondering what him and the OW are doing. Just assume they have a wonderfully blissful life and start focusing on you and how you can make your life good again.
((((Sage))))
Can't you see that lingering in this is only causing you pain. Cut off contact with him completely. It is the only way!
Sage, are you stuck on him or are you stuck on what you thought you had? Everything that you say about him indicates that he is a worthless human being (although I think all humans have value). If it has been only 18 months since d-day and only a year after the divorce, I can understand why this is hard for you. I appologise for not being more understanding and using harsh tones in my posts to you. I still struggle at 3 1/2 years with my wife's affair. I was still a wreck at 18 months.
Maybe Pat is right and you are experiencing some motherly loss thing with him. Maybe both you and your EX are having problems breaking away from your mother to son roles. Maybe you want another shot at raising him to be a good man.
You said so yourself, "life is not fair". It wouldn't be fair for you to have to sell out and move away but that may be the only way to keep your sanity. Wouldn't it be alot better than to be standing outside in the cold watching "them" lead your warm and happy life.
H2C...I have not ever interpreted your posts as harsh, simply on target. Sometimes we don't want to "hear" what we know in our hearts of true. I really detest this mother/son thing.....I didn't consider that until I read one of the posts the other day. His mother was brutal. One month he was very late with this $ (like 15 days) and I phoned him to remind him...he cried and said, "my life is in shambles...you always took care of that stuff"...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I don't like the notions of being his mother....it has misogynistic tones to me.
He had to locate another woman so that he could enjoy sex with her because he couldn't bear to have it with his mother????? AHAHAH. SO she got the role of wife and all of the pleasures of that and I was his MOTHER. I already have two children, I don't need one more. I don't think I was his mother. I always thought I was his partner...right. I can't stand thinking about this any more. I think I am trying to overanalyze this. I am still curious as to what the heck happened to my life. Perhaps I am thinking of what I had...I didn't realize that people changed so drastically...he literally went from being a decent person to being a slug. I can't wait to awaken and feel the release...from thinking about all of this. I guess you are right, H2C...I need more time. BUT, the pain that accompanies the time is so hard to endure. I'll keep posting as things pop up for me.
Sage, always remember what they run from they always take with them. He thinks he was running from you, he is running from himself and he can't get away by running. We aren't running FROM anything, we are running TO something. Big difference.
I am seeing so much of my story in yours, except that we are still together... My friends and MC have all seen me as the stronger partner in the marriage, I am the dependable one, the one who takes care of all issues at home...takes care of anything that kids need or want same with H. My H had his A because he needed to be needed, he saw me as not needing him to function on a day in day out basis, didn't hear me say I needed him, I just did what needed to be done. The OW professed to have been in an abusive relationship (MC said NOT) she played the needy woman, she needed a new car so H bought her one...same with a condo, etc..
I think what you are experiencing is that you are letting H need you to take care of stuff...and Sage all I can say is that my marriage has taken a big swing where my H is now taking care of me...and that is what everyone here is trying to say is to back off taking care of your XH...take care of Sage, get to know who Sage is, what Sage wants...your H has a habit of letting you handle everything, tell him you deserve to be Queen and will seek out someone who will treat you as you deserve to be treated.
If by chance your XH does wonder back leaving OW...please don't settle for the crumbs, you deserve the whole cake, frosting and all.
Me too. I mean, I think you are overanalyzing as well (I also overanalyze, btw).
>>I am still curious as to what the heck happened to my life. Perhaps I am thinking of what I had...I didn't realize that people changed so drastically...<<
It's mindboggling, isn't it? I go around that circle alot too. Who is this woman? Was she always that way but I didn't notice? Did she change somewhere along the line but I didn't notice? How was that possible? I must have been asleep at the wheel.
I think we should probably try not to beat ourselves up too much about this kind of thing, Sage. Love is blind. When you love someone, you overlook shortcomings that might be obvious to anyone else. You have to let your guard down. In some ways, I see nothing pathological about trusting someone that you've been married to for a long time. What's the alternative?
MOE...eloquently stated. You are absolutely right. When I read things like that a sense of relief washes over me only to be followed by tears....I know that he has taken with him what he didn't want here...he has made NO effort to try to get into any type of therapy...not that it would be a panacea for anything, but I certainly got my butt in to see someone when all of this came down. I am trying to put closure on this....at least the pinning and crying and sad, sad feelings. I have put all of my efforts into my children (who don't even live at home anymore) and my job...which I love. I am currently in the cacoon stage....I want to wrap myself up and stay in the house and drink mudslides all day....of course, that isn't an option...the mudslide part....the cacoon stuff works. I didn't shed one tear yesterday and I have just spent the last 40 minutes bawling..in fetal position. I don't even know what I am crying about. Thank y ou again for your kind words.
Yes, I think I was considered the strong one in this marriage. I literally lived at the foot of the cross. I loved my job and obviously spent too much time working (he said that he told me to quit my job one time...I reminded him that I never heard him say that...he said, "I told you, you always work too hard"). Yikes, I didn't interpret that as needing to quit. Anyway, I teach at a university and those jobs are not ones that you just "quit"....I had to apply for that position, teach classes, do research, get tenure...etc. I always thought that he was proud of me and my willingness to contribute to the family , etc. That obviously was not the case. I guess I didn't pay enough attention to him. I was under some stupid impression that by the time an adult male had reached his 50's reared two wonderful sons...that he would have his "shit" together...WRONG. I assumed that is there was a problem, I would be informed. WRONG. We built our retirement home...nice cabin on a lake...he has turned that into their love nest. SLEEPING IN MY BED. She probably uses my toothbruse. AHAHAHAHH.
ENOUGH. I know. Anyway, I can honestly state that I would not change a thing about the way I was in the relationship...I was the strong one. I actually never asked him to do anything because his job was so stressful (no that mine wasn't) and I tried to protect him. He actually told me that we (me and children) didn't pay anough attention to him. When he would get home from work, I would make coffee and carry it out to him while he shot golf balls into his chipping net....and I didn't pay enough attention???? I guess I am looking for answers that don't really have any questions. What am I questioning? Living my life. Being devoted to my H and c hildren? I have never layed a hand on our children...I don't believe in spanking or the violence that it implies....he told me the OW spanks her children...I about dropped my teeth....his values were so in line with mine....he doesn't even remember being married to me he stated not too long ago. It is really therapeutic to type this stuff...it helps remind me that I am in a MUCH better place than he is. I don't have any regrets about the way I have treated my friends, family, Xspouse....
I don't think he sleeps quite as well as I do at night. Thanks for listening
>>I keep thinking about why this man had to die and people like my former H take up oxygen....it isn't fair. I forwarded that letter he sent to me to my H<<
and I realized something no one else has mentioned.
You're in the angry stage. You've said you don't "feel" anger, but I think it's there. (Maybe in your family of origin, keeping your cool was of paramount importance, and you don't recognize anger well?)
Your thoughts and your actions are ANGER. Not little anger. That's BIG anger.
That's a good thing, as long as you get through that stage too. Be angry for a while. It's better than being sad and depressed.
I think both of Chris's posts were dead on. Read his words again.
Think of it this way...you aren't even talking to the man you knew, you are talking to the alcohol. The man has given way to the booze.
You can't break through that barrier Sage. He needs to break FREE.
I hope Chris is right and you are getting angry. Until your exh gets help there will always be 3 in whatever relationship he's in...alcohol being numero uno.
I was about to post the same response about Sage being angry but you beat me to it!
"have all seen me as the stronger partner in the marriage, I am the dependable one, the one who takes care of all issues at home...takes care of anything that kids need or want same with H. My H had his A because he needed to be needed, he saw me as not needing him to function on a day in day out basis, didn't hear me say I needed him, I just did what needed to be done"
This could very much be what I went through as well. I'm not sure my ex did feel like I needed him either, but in his line of work, I HAD to be very independent. I also felt like I had three children, my boys and him.
I'm so sorry for the way you are feeling. You previously said that you don't feel any further along today than you were 18 months ago. Please realize that you are! I've only been reading this board for a couple weeks,and I see wisdom and growth in your posts. You sound like such a loving, dependable, thoughful human being - don't let him take those qualities from you. I too have been the dependable one in my M. I kept a good, steady job to put H through college only to have him eventually say that I paid too much attention to work and not enough to him. OW obviously had more free time to devote to him since she only had to take care of herself. Everyone's posts about the mother-son element of relationships rings very true to me. Instead of feeling guilty for being the responsible people who make sure things get taken care of, we should be angry with them for being so childish and irresponsible.
Be proud of the steps you have already taken to look out for yourself, and please take care.
I really don't have much to add to what the other's have already said, other than to ask if you've ever read the book "The Wendy Syndrome?" I can't recall what the author's name is, but I believe you might find yourself and your relationship with your ex in that book. And it might help you take some small steps towards walking away from him.
Sometimes we do attempt to mother our spouse instead of being a partner. If you can recognize the role your husband is playing in relation to you, it might help you see that he's not the kind of man you even want to be with at this point in your life. You deserve a partner who will value you for who you are, not someone who looks to you to fix things for him or be his mother.
Yes...I read it years ago, along with the Peter Pan Syndrome. I have vowed NOT to read any more self help books. I don't even know what I am looking for. I made a vow to myself last Sunday that I would not have any contact with him for 21 days.....he agreed (he wants to quit drinking and I am as he says, "putting pressure on him"...hell, I don't even talk to him about stuff). Anyway, it is Friday and I have made it throug 5 days. I feel really good about myself. I have bawled, lost my voice because of the crying and crying, but I am doing it. Why? Who knows. Because everyone on this site has advised me to do so, so I am doing it. AND, I must admit that I don't feel any worse for not talking to him than I do when I talk to him. That has been a great shift for me...I am glad about that. I still miss him and would love to be in his life. His life now, is NOT the life we had together. I don't think I necessarily deserve "better"...I don't know what better it. I know how I treat people and I would NEVER treat anyone the way that he has treated me or the children. He is a very sick person...alcoholic. drug abuse. He cares for no one but himself. I could never imagine such a life. It is through the caring and giving that I have good feelings about myself. I cared and gave to him a great deal. BUT, he wasn't able to reciprocate. That's too bad for him. I don't think I will die a regretful person...I think he will. Maybe not though. Maybe he will roll out of this a really balanced, decent human being. I can't hope that for him now, I am not there. I hope that someday I can hope that for him. I was just lucky enough to be raised in a family of origin where I leaned about love, giving, caring, receiving, attachment, acceptance, etc. I learned tolerance too. I accept people for who they are and try to nurture those parts of them that I know are good and deserving. I have raised my children this way. I simply stepped back and let them live their lives. He can't do that. There are way too many conditions on his plate....I don't have an agenda. He always did. He was not as fortunate as I was to be raised by two supportive, nurturing parents. I never felt unloved or disapproved of by my parents...I think he and his siblings did. His older brother who was a physician (retured now) said that he wanted more than anything in life to be a chemist...his parents sat him down in the 60's and told him he would apply to medical school and be a doctor...he was and was MISERABLE his entire life. As I think back on the things that my former H said I did...I don't think I would change a things. He told me I was not subservient enough..shit, what does that mean? He told me I didn't pay enough attention to him, shit I have two children, a career, etc. I don't think I would ever want to change the person I am. I have learned that I need to be more direct with my communication with others...I am learning how to do that. I obviously didn't do that well with him..but it is hard to talk to someone that changes the subject..now, if people do that to me, I revisit the topic. If they don't like it, it probably isn't worth the conversation (I mean those with whom I am in a relationship. It's sort of a challenge to see how much better I can become...I thought I was okay, but this A and subsequent divorce has helped me to realize that there were some changes that I needed to make. I am working on them. That doesn't take the pain, anguish, and intense suffering away....it will leave in time, I am convinced.
I simply live my life day by day and enjoy the experiences along the way. I want to get really better at doing this. I want to rally in ME and the experiences that I have. Don't know why on earth I lingered so much on this. I will quit.
Well I can certainly understand about the self help books. I vowed that sometime back myself. There comes a point when you've read so many that you feel you could be writing them instead of reading them, huh?
You wrote>>Why? Who knows. Because everyone on this site has advised me to do so, so I am doing it. AND, I must admit that I don't feel any worse for not talking to him than I do when I talk to him>>>
I think you've hit on something very big with that last statement Sage. You don't feel any worse not talking to him than when you do. Something tells me that in a short while you'll realize that you DO feel better during the times you don't talk to him.
Sometimes writing out a whole post of thoughts like you did above is the best thing we can do for ourselves. Good for you Sage. Keep writing.
Hi Sage. You are a very giving person & now it is time for you to give back to youself.Put Sage first because yes, you deserve it. Your Ex will survive without you.He has to learn his life lessons on his own.He will be fine & so will you. Just keep being the good person that you are. You have alot to give the world.Each day is a brand new start & holds miracles of it's own.I know that you have made a difference in my life Sage & I say "Thank You" for that.
Hi All...thank you for your kind words of encocuragement. It has been 6 days of no contact...not one word and I can honestly say that I do feel better. It is ironic in a sense. Before I asked for no contact he would call whenever...on his way to work, on his way home from work, never on the weekends. He would always call at least two times a day...but I would always wonder why he wouldn't call more often...I interpreted that as his not thinking about me...DUH. The man divorced me. I am thick-headed and have needed the 2x4 more frequently than others. NOW, I don't even keep the phone on. This has been such a calming experience. I don't feel any worse, not much better, but as you have stated, that will hopefully come. The holidays are sad to me...but he hasn't been part of that experience for the past two years. I thnk having him here for Thanksgiving was a help. I looked at him and almost felt sorry for him. When he comes here, I think he realizes what a mistake that he has made. He is so unhappy...that makes me sad because he used to be such a together person...great sense of humor, etc. Now he hardly laughs any more. He has made such a mess of his life and the lives of so many others too. I can't imagine where he will be in two years...still drinking? Still trying to numb out his pain? I so appreciated the statement from someone (I can't remember who) saying that we here are moving toward something....our BS are moving, running away from something. I think that is so true. I feel like I have been stuck in traffic for a while, but the jam is becoming more negotiable. This too shall pass. Thanks all.
...thank you for your kind words of encocuragement. It has been 6 days of no contact...not one word and I can honestly say that I do feel better. It is ironic in a sense. Before I asked for no contact he would call whenever...on his way to work, on his way home from ....
Sage,
good for you, you got momentum now... keep going !!! baby step after baby step.
Sage, how do you know this? Be careful about your emotions wanting to interpret something from someone that you know is a lier. That's a form of denial. Take another look at what YOU and others posted to seaorchid about this very behavior.
Congrats on the no contact. Continue to be strong.
Got it H2C....he is a pathological liar and you are right, I don't know what his expressions mean...he might have gas... I guess I wasn't necessarily hoping for his unhappiness as much as I actually feel sorry for him....I am not trying to fix anything, just taking note of my feelings. They may be way off base...I will try to veralize things in a better frame. I still feel sad that he chose to leave our family and not appreciate and care for and want to be with us. That still hurts my feelings and I guess that is really what I am talking about. Just the hurt feelings and sense of abandonment....I don't need to interpret that for anything other than what it is...he found someone else and others who satisifed his needs better than we could...that's sad, because we are terrific (is that spelled right, it looks wrong) people.
It amazes me that there are so many human beings out there that are so ruthless, unkind, self-centered, just plain nuts.
""""I still feel sad that he chose to leave our family and not appreciate and care for and want to be with us. That still hurts my feelings and I guess that is really what I am talking about. Just the hurt feelings and sense of abandonment....""""
After 30 plus years everything happened so fast in your case...like an amputee still feeling a missing limb. You still feel it but its not there and you are learning to navigate without it. One day you will get to the point you will realize you didn't even need it.
Be patient with yourself. You are alot further along than most of us at your time frame.
You will get there. In YOUR time. Just don't stop moving forward.
(I sure was, and she didn't leave me for the other man...she just left me hanging for five or six years.)
Sage, I'd underline Quinn's comment: good for you. That old line "one day at a time" sure takes on a new and whole meaning when we actually follow through on a difficult choice that way.
I really struggled in the beginning when my ex left - I wanted to talk to him ALL the time, sometimes just to hear his voice. First thing in the morning was horrible, I literally ached to talk to him. He was so cruel back then it wasn't ever an overly cheerful conversation, but every time he called, I'd jump at the phone to answer. It took me a LONG TIME not to call him and even longer not to answer when he called. Two days was the longest NC I could make it through before I broke down and called him. Then, I got pissed. REEEEEALLY pissed - he left, put his crap on ME, but before leaving, he started a new relationship.
WHY on EARTH did it take me so long to be mad? I don't really know. But, the one thing that worked for me was knowing that I did NOT die because I didn't talk to him for one day - then I knew I could do two and then four... and the next thing I knew, it had been TWO WEEKS. Then, he texted me saying how much he missed me. He missed me? I told him to piss up a rope.
We do chat now, occasionally. He is the one who does all the calling and most of the time, I don't take his calls. The "DECLINE" button on my cell phone is its best feature. Sage, I hope you get to the point that you're REEEEALLY pissed. He walked out on your marriage... let him walk.
Monica
This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot
"I really struggled in the beginning when my ex left - I wanted to talk to him ALL the time, sometimes just to hear his voice. First thing in the morning was horrible, I literally ached to talk to him. He was so cruel back then it wasn't ever an overly cheerful conversation, "
Mine just left. No forwarding address, no phone number to reach him. I would have to wait until whenever he decided to call in order to say anything to him. And those calls were very few and far between..sometimes months. That's why I eventually got to the point of pretending he was dead. It was easier for me that way, than to think he kicked me to the curb and couldn't be bothered to talk to me.
H2C, I think you're right. Being reeeeally pissed helped me in more ways than my counselor, more than anything I read, and more than anything I could work out in my mind. He turned off his emotions towards our marriage and staying pissed at him allowed me to come to the same end. Going into survivor mode helped me a lot, too - I had to shut down completely and focus on sleeping, getting out of bed in the morning, going to work, and finding myself again. Once I got that down, the rest of it seemed to fall into place. It's been 14 months tomorrow since my ex left and the best gift he ever gave me was his indifference. THAT showed me who he really was, regardless of all the stuff his mouth said.
Monica
This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot
"H2C, I think you're right. Being reeeeally pissed helped me in more ways than my counselor, more than anything I read, and more than anything I could work out in my mind."
Monica
Good points and I think H2C is right as well. I realize that I exhibited extreme anger right from the beginning of finding his e-mails on D-day and I don't think I lost it for a while even when I calmed outwardly about it. After our separation, I think that anger helped me tremendously. It helped me to actually be happy about not speaking with him, it helped me to look forward to dating other people, and it helped me to not want him back. I guess there was a point though that the anger turned into pity and I'm not sure why but I guess I realized that even though I was raising the child with the disability, that I may have my son in my house for my entire life, that I didn't have the education I needed to do what I wanted, and that I was horrified financially, I was still the one who would have my children actually living with me most of the time, I was the one who had the respect of my family, I was the one who wouldn't have to live with the guilt of doing the wrong things, and I was actually the big winner in our situation regardless of my struggle.
Anger can be helpful in breaking away but too much can be unhealthy and in turn keeps you there.
In many cases where children is involved, closure is elusive. There is pain in sharing your children not only with the betraying spouse who neglected them to satisfy his or her self, but also with the Other Person playing "wonderful parent and friend" when that person would easily have stuffed those children in a bag of bricks and tossed them in a river if that was what it took to get naked with their mother or father. The betrayed is often alone and building the new life while the betrayers transplant a convenient family life into the lives of the children. What the children don't realize is that they live with people who had already placed their well-being at a low priority when they were inconvenient to them. Why would this behavior be different later in new circumstances of inconvenience?
Closure itself may be something that cannot be reached, but somehow Peace is the goal. To accept and make the best of how things are while circumstances hold you to the betrayer's agendas.
""""Anger can be helpful in breaking away but too much can be unhealthy and in turn keeps you there.""""
Agreed. Let me be clear. IMHO, it is time for Sage to feel angry and use it for her own survival. She is a very nice caring person that would (I think) otherwise never use anger as a means to offend. It's not like she will totally go to the "dark side" of the force like Darth Vader or something. May the force be with her. LOL
I most definitely agree, H2C. From what I have read from Sage's posts, I don't think she has reached her "healthy" degree of anger yet. In my past experience, the anger was a key element to grow beyond being able to be manipulated and to break free. All I am saying is that sometimes people can allow themselves to be consumed for years by their anger where they cease moving forward remaining stuck in an unnecessary limbo.
I have read of her shock and denial phases and see the anger stage as a normal progression for her. So I believe Sage will be just fine as her progression through the stages appear normal. But certainly a discussion of the dangers is warranted so people are aware.
"But certainly a discussion of the dangers is warranted so people are aware"
Agreed Pheonix. It seems obvious to those of us who are comfortable here and have been posting here long enough do know that Sage won't be "hurt" by a little anger. You are right though that those who may be newcomers to the site that don't know Sage very well, may benefit from your bringing up the point that too much anger is unhealthy as well. What may seem obvious to the rest of us may not to someone new here. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes new or outside perspectives are a good thing
Charlie
This message has been edited by charlie288 on Dec 5, 2005 11:12 PM
Hi All....I am working on anger. It's not that anger is not part of my fabric...it is. I just don't feel it yet. I feel anger. I really do. I do get angry at the situation and how things came down. How last Christmas he couldn't wait to leave his own children so that he could scoot over to his new family. He was supposed to come and eat Christmas dinner with us last year....he got s$@t faced drunk and the boys ended up taking a plate of food to him. How pathetic that is. An adult male...that's the stuff that makes me the angriest in addition to all of the other things...lying, cheating, lmore lying, more cheating AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA...does that quality as anger? The AHAHAHHAHAHAH???? I think I have been so traumatized by all of this...maybe the trauma prevents the anger....naw...I don't know. I agree with all of you, I have not been angry...but that would mean being unkind and saying unkind things...I just don't think that is worth it....I still recall all of the things he has said to me and I just can't believe it. I am sure the anger will come...I am just a slow learner and am not going to put myself in a position of saying things that I don't want to say....that's the only way I can see my getting out the anger AT him. I could slit his tires I guess....
