Hello all, I feel like I know you all because I have read so many of your posts. I am trying to figure out how to deal with all of this. It has been very difficult at times. I know I love my husband and I know he loves me. He has proven that just by staying with me through all of this. WE have had some really good days and I think we are doing really well and then boom I just fall right back into the same old habits and I know it is hurting him.
I am struggling with all of these different feelings and today he caught me looking out the window at the OM. I didnt really see him but a glimpse of the top of his head and I did it not thinking of the ramifications but because I wanted comfirmation for myself that I no longer had any feelings towards this person. I got that confirmation, but at a high price because Bob caught me and was so hurt and is so pained by it. I have no excuses and I have no idea how I will ever convince him now that I truly do love him not the OM. I know I have a long road back and I will be patient with him. I know I have to be for this to work. And believe me I want this marriage to work.
I am the one that screwed this whole thing up and I am the one that has to fix it and I will.

Be totally honest with him. Sometimes it is painful for a BS to hear but it is really necessary. Tell him how you feel, explain what you did above to him. Reassure him you are where you want to be.

Kid pretty much hit the number one important thing when reconciling - honesty. My ex couldn't do that, which is why we aren't together anymore but we did give it a try for a good year afterwards. After that year, I found out there were many more lies that kept going on after I had caught him. I can't tell you how damaging that was, even more so than the A itself. Another thing that is horribly damaging is when the former betrayer turns things around to push the guilt away from themselves. I felt I could forgive my ex's A, but the continuing dishonesty and manipulation is what hurts the most IMHO. I believe we would still be together if he could have been honest from D-day forward and told me everything then (or even in the first few months at least.) I don't think it is too late for your relationship Mrs. Bob, but make sure everything is honest, even if you think it will hurt Bob. Try to do those little things that Bob said he needs right now. Say I'm sorry I hurt you every single day. For some crazy reason, we need to hear it A LOT to actually believe it. I know that none of us can really explain it but this is often the single most painful thing that has ever happened to us. Those of us who have been around for a long time also realize that it is painful for you as well, realizing that you've messed up so bad but if you concentrate on your pain and not Bob's, it won't do much good for the relationship. Really you both need to focus on holding each other up right now.

I don't have a lot of time right now.

Charlie

Hi Bob's Wife...I think that your posting is a significant step in the right direction. This is something that he has repeatedly wanted from you. I hope that you are doing this on your own...is Bob standing over your shoulders? Unfortunately the road ahead for you will be a rough one. You already know that. I assume that you explained to him that the reason you were "looking" was to "test" your reaction? You don't want to have feelings for this man. BUT, you did (I think) and now you are in the process of detaching from him...is that true? If so, that is something that will continue to "eat at" your H. The knowledge that you chose someone over him. You rejected him. You were the most intimate with the OM...all the while having a H who thought things were fine. My situation was not different from yours except my former H chose to go with the OW. I think he realizes now, but much too late, that this was a lapse of good judgement on his part. If I had had the choice to remain in the marriage, I would have wanted the following from him.
1. The assurance OVER AND OVER again, that this person was not on my mind. Total NO CONTACT with this person.
You have done a great job of that...at least that's what Bob thinks...only YOU know for sure what you have or have not continued to do. When you phoned him that night, it was a baby step back.

2. I would need to know that my H was thinking about me 24 hours a day. How would I know that? He would call me and see how my day was going. He would take me to lunch. He would send me little cards in the mail...the goofy ones that talk about love, etc. If he were thinking about me, he would call me and let me know that. He would call and say, "I just wanted you to know that I was thinking about you."

3. He would take me out of town on a Christmas shopping trip. We all still have gifts to buy...just the next town over. He would do this because he would want me ALL TO HIMSELF...not to be distracted by children or houses next door.

4. He would change his cell phone...get a new one so that the OW could have not contact. Of course I would never know if that were true...I guess I could check the phone, but I would be trying to build trust. Maybe he could offer it to me and say, "I know this still bothers you, I want you to check my numbers"...that is a stupid game, but some people need it.

5. He would run errands with me. I know that he has been doing that with the OW...his new love...he would never do those things with me.

6. He would not go to bed before me. He always feel asleep on the couch and snored (he's 57...older) but he would not do that anymore.

7. He would be interested in my hobbies...I am a scarf knitter and a runner...he would see how those things were going.

8. He would, when he was ready, sit me down and try to explain how in the hell our lives got to this point. He would admit to me what was going on and what he was searching for. He would let me know the point in time at which he had decided that I was the choice over her. What was it about ME that he wanted to keep in his life? It could be anything...moral fiber, caring, nurturing, safety, security, whatever....I would definately need to HEAR that from him. I would need to be convinced that I was the person that mattered. That may take some time for you to get there...but I think it is something that every BS needs to hear.

9. I would listen to Bob and try to follow through with his requests...whatever they may be. He is still under the impression that you are in the "fog"....I am still not quite sure what he means by that, but he keeps making a reference to it...check it out with HIM. "Honey, what does that mean, I am still in the fog?" Then try your darndest to get out of the fog.

Have a joyous holiday. The good days will soon outnumber the bad ones. He will slip up and so will you. Just point your nose in the direction of catering to Bob..convincing Bob...loving and adoring Bob...

One other thing. I think coming here is a huge step for you and I'm glad you are chatting with us - we'll do our best to help. Please beware that on occasion, someone with raw emotions (a betrayed spouse) will post and they sometimes make comments that are hurtful. Please take in the valuable information and understand that these people are in pain, don't understand your whole situation, and toss out what you don't like. We do our best to keep harmful posts out but there are times that you may read one before we get a chance to take action.

Charlie

Thanks, Kid, Charlie and Sage,
I know I have to do all of these things and I will because he means everything to me and I am so proud of how he has handle things in the past couple of days he has really shown me that he loves me and I have so much respect for him for putting up with me. I know I have hurt him badly and I will forever be truly sorry for that.

He wants me to think about my actions yesterday and talk to him later tonight. I know I have to be honest with him and I will be. And no, Sage he wasn't standing over me while I wrote that last night or this morning.
I will do anything to prove to him that he is the one I love. I need him.

I know now that I should have done things differently yesterday and I have to stop acting on my emotions and start acting with so forthought about how it would affect Bob and not myself.
Thanks again for your posts it really is helpful.

Hi Mrs. Bob! I guess the best advice I can give you is to be honest & remember that it will take alot of time . Bob & I seem to both think very logically & I think it's hard for us because things just seem to go round & round in our brain. It is just about enough to drive us crazy because none of this A business is logical. Try & find little, meaningful ways to show him that you love him & care. You'll know what he likes. For me, I've told my H I'd like to be surprised with a card, cheap flowers, etc. I'm still waiting but hopefully it will happen. Actions mean alot because frankly words don't mean much to the betrayed spouse. We need time, tenderness,& the truth. I'm glad you felt safe enough to come here & talk to us. It's helpful to us too. It's nice to know that the WS has feelings too.I hope that you & Bob can work things out.

I wanted to cry when I read this Mrs. Bob. I believe you are sincere when you say you want to make this work. I know Bob wants it to work.

Everyone already told you the first step... honesty. Also realize that your marriage will never be the same but those who make it say it often becomes better than it ever was before. Not sure if it's always the way it works out but for many it does.

Communication. Joint Counseling and Independent Counseling. Reading and working together. And maybe even later couples encounter groups. Anything to bring the two of you together and to experience love the way it used to be and the way it can be.

God bless you!

Mrs. Bob

Just wanted to pitch in one other thing that will help Bob. Eliminate the words "just get over it" from your vocabulary. I don't mean for the next few months but as long as it takes for Bob to feel better. If he needs to talk about it for the next few months or the next few years, the more willing you are to talk without getting angry about it, the more he will be able to start letting it go. I believe my ex and I started reaching that point after about a year but he wasn't keeping up the honesty thing.

Charlie

Howdy Mrs B,

Welcome to the site. I'm happy you decided to post. I know Bob must be too.

You have received some good advice. You have to communicate honestly with Bob. What I mean by that is no trying to protect him(or yourself) by downplaying events or giving him half-truths.


I posted to Bob on Dec 5th on the Discovery Forum entitled "Joseph's Letter". Have you had a chance to read it yet? It will provide you with alot of insight from a BS's perspective.

We having a saying here: "trust but verify". That is the next step you want to be able to reach. But first you have to earn's Bob's trust back little by little....piece by piece. That is going to take time, honesty and(alot of) patience for starters. He is going to ask the same questions over and over and over. He is searching for consistency in your answers. He is looking for a reason to begin to trust you again. It is also a way of giving you the opportunity to begin earning it back.

Another thing that might help: if you sense he is triggering or needs to talk: ask him. "Bob, do you want to talk about it?" I can't tell you what that means to a BS to hear that.

Just remember: right now communication and honesty are the keys. Its important you acknowledge your true feelings. You can't be honest with Bob until you are first honest with yourself. That is important for YOUR healing as an individual.

There are 3 healings taken place as I'm sure you've read here more than once: Bob's, yours and the marriage. Your healing is important if the marriage is to survive and eventually thrive.

I'm not sure if H2C sent the link to Bob but this is for you as a WS(not BS's) to read in case you don't have it. I hear its very helpful.

http://www.aftertheaffair.net/

Once again welcome aboard Mrs Bob. I hope you will continue to post.

Regards,

Tex

Thanks Tex and everyone.
Thank you so much for your help. I know now what I need to do. No more blaming I know what I did was wrong and extremely hurtful and I am just so grateful that Bob has given me a chance to try and make it up to him. He is a very strong and loving man. I am so thankful for him. I am trying to find my way out of this hideous fog!

I will write again probably after we move which is in 2 days.
Thanks again everyone, your help is greatly appreciated by both Bob and I.

Mrs. Bob

Welcome to our site.  I know it takes a lot of courage to write that first post and put your thoughts out there. So I commend you for doing that.

I am a former wayward spouse. My husband and I are coming up on 7 years out from Dday. You can find my story on the Members Forum.

You'll find lots of support on this site. The people here are very caring and compassionate. As Charlie said above sometimes folks can be blunt, but overall I believe the help you get here will be invaluable. I know it was to me and my husband.

So many of the things you've written above I can remember writing. It can seem overwhelming after you've had an affair to know how and where to start picking up the pieces. Try your best not to hurry the process along for you or Bob. Take one piece at a time. Don't try to get ahead of where either of you are. I think it's far better to move too slow than it is to rush your way through recovery.

For a very long time in our relationship I concentrated on what I needed and wanted for my own recovery and left my husband and his feelings out of the process. It sounds like you are way ahead of me on that though. You are already looking for ways to help Bob. Good for you. It will take a strong committment from both of you and lots of time to rebuild your relationship.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions of me if you think I might could be of help. It sometimes helps a great deal to talk to someone who has been there. Again, welcome to our site. 

GT 

Hello Mrs. Bob,

I always get so excited when I see a betrayed spouses other half post. Knowing that you are trying and are remorseful gives me much hope. Just by reading here and posting is a great way to help Bob from hurting as much, because I feel it shows how much you really do care and love him. My FWS knows that I have an online support group but he would never take the time to read or post here. So to me, what you are doing here on this site means a lot. You are reaching out to Bob and I am sure that touches his heart

Congratulations on the new house. I hope this is a new begining for the two of you on your path to healing.

Best wishes,
Carol~

Howdy Mrs Bob!

I recently passed my 6 year D-day anniversary, so I'll offer my personal suggestions based on the last 6 years and where I am today..

1. Posting here. BRAVO!!! I begged and begged my wife to talk to someone about her mistake, both for her healing, and for some perspective on what I was going through. But, she never did. "I don't want to talk to strangers about my problems" was a typical response.

2. Acknowledge you WILL NOT erase the pain. The damage has already been done. But you CAN help the healing from here on out. Show Bob you are truly sorry for the mistakes you made and will make every effort to prove yourself from here on out.

3. Keep talking about it. I know it probably hurts to have Bob bring up the same old issues over and over again, and this will only get worse with time. You'll just want to put it behind you, but he keeps bringing it up. My wife was AWESOME the first year or two. She answered every question I had, and was "usually" willing to talk about it. But as time went by, talking about it became more and more difficult till I finally stopped asking. I still needed to talk, but it became too much effort to get the answers I needed.

4. Share what is going through YOUR mind. Are you feeling sad for making a mistake, do you miss the other man, do you miss the excitement, or whatever... As I said, my wife was awesome about answering my questions and helping me to heal, but to this day she never really shared what was going on in her thoughts about that incident. Oh sure, if I pried repeatedly and we ended up in an argument I "might" get a few of her thoughts, but generally she held her personal feelings inside.

Six years later, I think #4 is still the weakest link in my own healing. By not sharing her own feelings, I still wonder if she thinks about him, thinks about that night, etc. From my perspective, it always appears that it was a non-event to her. Sometimes that hurts more than if she had feelings for him, because it seems so cold and heartless. In other words, how could she do that and NOT think about it afterwards...

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, at today's seriously declined value...

Anthony

“How do I stop hurting him?”

Bob’s Wife, I’m going to give you my thoughts on this but first I feel strongly that I need to explain a few things to everyone here. Bob and I email daily. As you know he is in a lot of pain. He has pleaded with me many many times over the last few weeks to respond to this thread. I resisted because I know things that are not common knowledge on the boards and I don’t want to sound biased like I’m just on Bob’s side. I’m not. In fact I helped Bob and Bob’s wife connect with GT in hopes that they could get specific help from both sides of the fence. (GT was a life saver for me years ago.) I don’t know what particular things were said between GT and Bob’s wife so I’m limited to just Bob’s side of the story. Bob and I both fear that Bob’s wife has discontinued contact with all of us here who are trying to help her.

With that said, please understand that if I use harsh words in this message that the message itself is not harsh. It is intended, as always, to help ease the pain and support anyone who is dealing with infidelity from either side. I’m not judging any FWS in any way. I’m directing my thoughts to Bob’s wife with specific things to answer her question above.

You should also know that they have a counselor who sometimes allows Bob’s wife to partially blame Bob for her affair. (I think Bartholomew Quisenberry is our in house expert in this area.) Bob and I have talked about changing counselors but fear that his wife will view any request by Bob to change counselors as an attempt to control the outcome of counseling.

This is the longest post that I have ever made. I’m normally a man of few words when it comes to the writing them.

To Bob’s wife:

I know that you are in a lot of pain too. I know that you want to get your life back to normal where you can feel like a happy person again. That is what we all want. To answer your question above “how do I stop hurting him?” I see three major things that you need to do.

First, you made a decision without Bob’s input to have sex with Bob’s friend and neighbor who is married and who made the same decision without consulting his wife. Affairs start with a decision, they don’t just happen. Decisions by definition imply ownership by the people who make them. You and OM own those decisions. Your decisions have put two marriages at risk. The healthy livelihood of the kids in both families may be affected. Dozens and dozens of people’s lives, OM’s wife, Bob, OM, you, kids, parents, friends, co-workers, neighbors, anyone who is close to your family or OM’s family are affected by those decisions.

Even people in the best of marriages have to work to maintain their marriage. There are no perfect human beings and there are no perfect marriages. That said, your not perfect, Bob’s not perfect and your marriage wasn’t/isn’t perfect. I hope you can agree with me on that.

So Bob’s not perfect, has flaws, issues that you have to put up with but there are good things about him too. So you are not perfect, have flaws, issues that Bob had/has to put up with but he knows that there are good things about you as well. But these things that both of you had/have to put up with are things that affected the marriage because neither one of you dealt with them in a constructive manner. You built up resentment for those bad things that Bob didn’t change in himself. Guess what, Bob also built up some resentment in the last 22 years in those bad things that you did not change in yourself even before the affair. You were not the perfect wife. But by your way of thinking, your resentment for Bob drove you into the arms of another man. Using that same logic or line of thinking, don’t you think that Bob had just as much right (or vow not to) to have his own affair based on his resentment for your imperfections? So what do you think is the difference between you and Bob, that you had the first opportunity? Not according to Bob and I believe him. There are lots of opportunities on the road. I travel a lot too and I have not had an affair.

Let’s go back 3 years, way before your affair. Would you have been hurt to find out that Bob had a 6 month affair with some woman that he came in contact with in a foreign country with all the ramifications of hurt, anger, loss of family, potential diseases to your family (because everyone that OM has screwed {and there may have been other affairs for him other than you} – you had sex with all of those people too), loss of finances, loss of best friend (you)? Would you not resent that you have to spend the next few months going to counseling just to maintain your sanity and the next few years trying to accept what has happened just to find a way to live in peace with what Bob’s affair did to you and your marriage? Can you not see Bob’s side of this or do you not have the courage to look?

Getting back to the question, what do you think is the difference that you had an affair and Bob didn’t? That is something that you need to find out in counseling whether you stay with Bob or not. It is a deeply seeded issue or issues that were caused by some traumatic event or events in your past, probably your childhood. If you do not get help with this, it doesn’t matter who you are with. That relationship will most likely fall prey to the same thing that has happened to your marriage. This also applies to OM if he does not get help. Also notice that this paragraph says absolutely nothing about your resentment of Bob causing or justifying your affair. That is you blame shifting and it’s a crap out.
NUMBER ONE – STOP BLAMING BOB OR YOUR NOT SO PERFECT MARRIAGE FOR YOUR DECISION TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

Secondly, from what I’ve read from Bob and by your own admission you have broken the “no contact” rule at least a couple of times causing OM to send you a letter telling you that he did not want any more contact with you. You resent OM, especially his wife for doing that. Well of course they would do that, OM and his wife are trying to save their marriage. OM told you in the letter that you didn’t mean anything to him that he didn't even find you attractive. OM is finally telling you the truth. Don’t you know that that is how most men betrayers are? He just used you for sex. During the affair he told you anything that you wanted to hear or that would enhance your mood to keep the sex coming for him. He was lying to and cheating on his WIFE for goodness sakes. Why would he be telling you, his sex toy, the truth? You traded sex for empty fantasy validations and compliments from OM. That’s what it all boils down to.

You want so much to believe that you and OM had something special. It was special all right. It was sneaky, lying, deceitful and just a plain old sleazy cliché, sleeping with the neighbor man. Otherwise it would have been conducted out in the open between two people who did not have prior commitments by taking vows to others.

Bob’s wife, I can imagine how hard this is for you to accept otherwise it just makes no sense that you risked so much (so much meaning everyone’s mental and maybe physical health that is affected by the affair) for something that meant absolutely nothing other than some selfish thrills.

I hope you are at home while you are reading this. I want you to look around and identify who is there with you. I figure you see your 2 kids and there’s a guy named Bob. Do you see OM? So you think that you and OM had something special? OM would be standing beside you if that were true. OM would be fighting for you and there would be no question in your mind how he felt about you because that is what meaningful true love is all about. Do you see OM? Do you see Bob? Who is standing next to you in all of this?

Every time you argue with Bob insisting that you meant something to OM or that you and OM had something special, or that you try to make contact with OM (no matter how minimal), it is like twisting the knife that you plunged into Bob’s heart about 3 months ago. What you should be doing is helping to pull that knife out of Bob’s chest so his healing can begin.
NUMBER TWO – FIND THE COURAGE TO FACE THE TRUTH ABOUT THE AFFAIR AND STOP INSISTING TO BOB THAT YOUR AFFAIR WITH OM WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL. IT WAS WHAT IT WAS AND IT WAS SLEAZY.

NUMBER THREE – GET HELP TO FIND OUT WHAT REALLY MADE YOU HAVE THE AFFAIR. I’ll give you a hint. It didn’t have anything to do with what Bob did or didn’t do.

When you find the courage to face the truth about the affair, guess what? Your healing begins.

I sincerely wish you and Bob well,

H2C

It goes without saying that it is hard to deal with the discovery of a partner's affair. Discovering that a wayward spouse believes that their betrayed partner is somehow responsible for "problems in the marriage" that "led to the affair" makes life doubly hard for the betrayed partner.

Nobody can force someone to have an affair. It just isn't possible. Some people in basically good, decent marriages have affairs. Some people in bad marriages don't have affairs. The old chestnut that affairs happen because there are "problems in the marriage" is simply a crock.

It seems to me that resentment is unavoidable in a long-term relationship. Over a long period of time, people are bound to do things that are resented by their partners. Deciding who is responsible for any particular resentment can get tricky. The person who is resented certainly plays some role but so does the person who does the resenting. Storing up enough resentment that an affair is needed to disburse it is a problem for the person who does the resenting, at least in my mind.

Suggesting that a betrayed spouse is somehow responsible for their wayward partner's affair is cruel, especially when a betrayal has only recently been discovered. Marriage counselors often do it, wittingly or unwittingly, for one reason or another. Wayward spouses often do it but for more obvious reasons. It must be hard as hell to discover the real impact on your partner of your affair. Few people (who haven't been through it previously) have an imagination capable of anticipating that kind of devastation. It comes as a shock to everyone.

In many ways, whether there were "problems in the marriage" before the affair is irrelevant. After the discovery of an affair, there are certainly "problems in the marriage". When it comes to "problems in the marriage", sorting out how to deal more effectively with stored up resentments will probably take time (one heeeyooge resentment will involve the affair). In any case, the more immediate problem is how to support a marriage when the betrayed partner is dealing with blunt force trauma to their psyche. Pretending that the betrayed partner is somehow responsible for their own condition (or that the betrayed partner and wayward partner are equally traumatized, etc.) won't help.

Something tells me that Mrs Bob enjoyed the conversations much more than the sexual aspect. I am in no way letting her off the hook but her feelings are just that. HERS. You either want to hear her truth as she sees it or you don't. In time her outlook on it will probably change but for the time being it meant something to her. Of course it was special to her... hell it better have been. I doubt she would have jeapodized her marriage for anything less in her mind.

Its been stated a million times, healing is a process. That includes WS too. At the beginning I would have wanted to hear "I hate him, I didn't care", yada yada yada. As time went by I found some comfort in knowing she didn't jeapodize our marriage for anything that was non-important to her. I don't think with female WS overall its about sex or the thrill. Its emotional. Emotional wounds take the longest to heal for everyone involved.

Beating her into submission isn't going to be the answer here. All that accomplishes is making her feel...well...beaten. That's the same as in most situations. The more people feel attacked the more they will defend themselves and their actions. Don't most people do that? Even in the simpliest of situations saying "I was wrong" is hard to do. There's usually always a "but" in there somewhere or a change of subject.

Mrs Bob posting or not on this site shouldn't be a dealbreaker. Does she feel safe here to really express everything she's feeling without fallout? Can she post here as a newbie WS knowing Bob is reading every word without watching every word she types and feel safe? I wouldn't. I'd be watching every single P's and Q's. What should I say? What does my BS WANT to hear?

She needs and should be expressing herself to her H, not to us if she's not ready.

She has a process too. We might hate it, obviously be hurt by it, dispise it, magnify or minimize it but that doesn't make it less than HER truth for the time being just because its want we as a BS want to hear.

Making my wife feel like a cheap used car makes her feel just that: as a cheap used car. How is that helping anyone?

Regards,

Tex


Edited: typos

Very true Tex - every word.

Charlie

Tex, I liked your post. Especially this part.

>>She has a process too. We might hate it, obviously be hurt by it, dispise it, magnify or minimize it but that doesn't make it less than HER truth for the time being>>

Every FWS I have ever spoken with said it took them a very long time to go through "their" process. It took me years. I'm one of those folks Quinn spoke of above that not only blamed my affair on my husband at Dday, but continued to blame him for years. I encouraged him NOT to get help because I knew someone might tell him he deserved the truth from me, or worse yet, tell him to leave me.

Bob's wife most likely feels she's getting it from all sides at this point. I'm sure I've probably contributed to that in some of my correspondence with her. And for that I openly apologize. Had folks come at me with guns blazing right after Dday it wouldn't have made me "get it" any faster. In fact I most likely would have said to hell with all of them and walked away. I wasn't ready to hear it until I was ready to hear it.

It's been said on these forum many times, none of us really knows what goes on in someone's house but the two people living in it. The rest of us can only give support and help based on what we're told.

GT