I'm putting this on OPEN in hopes of hearing from both BS and WS. I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue before or not but it's been on my mind. As a BS I still need to ask questions regarding the A and his feeling at the time even 7 months out. I don't do it as often anymore but I do it. The problem is that my H says that the only time he thinks about the OW is when I bring her(them) up. As far as he is concerned they are in the past and that is the way he wants it. The conundrum is that each time I bring up the A I cause my H to think of the OW and relive the A to some extent. I don't want him thinking about them and yet, as a BS I still need to talk about it sometimes. Is there a solution to this?

Angela,

My story was exactly as yours.

I'm sorry to say, no, I never did find a solution to that dilemma.

My H says the same damn thing. Here's my take on it. I'm sure he thinks about her anyway. I read the e-mails & I know how much he cared about her so ya can't tell me that he doesn't think about her. I figure my right to know what I need to know outweighs him thinking about her. I can't control his thoughts about her but I can make him face what he did & answer my questions. I'm still getting"I don't know" & "I don't remember" but I will stop asking when he figures it out & finally answers my questions.He's supposed to go to counciling to figure out why he did what he did but don't know when he'll go.

My wife says the same thing, always has. I've often wondered though if they use that as a means of avoiding talking about the affair or if it is that significant to them or both. But at 3 1/2 years I guess I can believe my wife no longer wants to think about OM. At 7 months I wasn't so sure.

Oddly enough, my wife for the last year has been the one who most often brings up affair discussions. But it is more in general now rather than details.

My H says exactly the same thing...the only time he thinks about her is if I bring her up. BUT the fact is we're only 7 weeks out from d-day; it was a 6 yr A and he was communicating with her several times a day the last few months per his cell phone bill....so I CONTINUALLY question how on earth one day he is calling her 4X/day and the next she is eradicated from his memory.

One of the other things he continually tells me is that he compartmentalized the A and when not thinking about it--it was not a part of who he was (of course I would think the flip is true as well--when with her I did not exist nor our children-in my words not his). Does this make sense? I am not sure if he is fooling himself or trying to pull one over on me, or if it is the truth. I suspect it is somewhere in the middle of the three options.

I look forward to not having any more questions about the A. At this point in time, can't imagine that will ever occur, but I am hopeful that all the literature out there will in fact hold true for me.

But I also believe that the answers to your questions far outweigh the 'risk' of reminding him of the A--and who knows..maybe reminding him of the A will make him realize or confirm what a collosol waste of time, energy and feelings the A actually was.

Lola

Hi Lola,

Oops. Here I go again. I wrote this whole long letter and then lost it. I wanted to say that I don't know that at 7 weeks my husband could have said he never thought about the OW anymore. I never asked at that point so I don't know. However, at 7 weeks we were talking about the A constantly so how could he not?

When my H really talked to me and started telling me all the things he was feeling on the medication he was taking I researched it all on the internet. He then went in to the Dr. and talked to her about it. She took him off of a couple and started to cut down on another one. When his head started to clear from this he ended the A. I found out about the A shortly after this. I guess the fact that he ended it on his own, before I knew about it, helps me to believe he doesn't think about OW. He did add that he thinks of the A in relationship to us in that he tries not to say or do things that may be triggers for me. I can't fault him for that. And I guess you're right that my getting answers is probably more important than the fact that I am reminding him of OW. Wish there was a way around that but I guess there isn't.

Like yours, my husband also said that he compartmentalized the A. I don't really understand it but he is not the first BS that I've heard say they did this so there may be something to it. Just don't know what!?

Hope all becomes more clear for you soon so that you know what you are dealing with. It's not easy by any means but the fact that they are still here and we are still here says something about the marriages. Time will tell I guess. In fact, I think the best advice I was given in the beginning was not to rush into any major decision right away. I'm glad I took that advice.

Angela

>>The problem is that my H says that the only time he thinks about the OW is when I bring her(them) up<<

Some WS are (in effect) continuing to be dishonest when they say that they never think about their affair(s). Some WS are simply being manipulative by suggesting that they never think about their affairs unless their spouses bring them up. I would bet that if your H is being dishonest and manipulative that you will know it. I would also bet that continuing dishonesty and manipulation will make it more difficult to "put the affair behind you".

>>Is there a solution to this?<<

Take responsibility for not "rubbing his nose in it" unnecessarily. Take responsibility for trying to understand why your h might continue to be dishonest and manipulative but be clear that you are not responsible for it.

Quinn said, << "Some WS are (in effect) continuing to be dishonest when they say that they never think about their affair(s). Some WS are simply being manipulative by suggesting that they never think about their affairs unless their spouses bring them up. I would bet that if your H is being dishonest and manipulative that you will know it. I would also bet that continuing dishonesty and manipulation will make it more difficult to "put the affair behind you". >>

BINGO. That was my ex's surefire way to get me to shut up about it... pronto. He had a few of those conversation enders "Stop talking to her husband we don't need him in our lives." (The A was continuing - her H and I compared notes to find out. And, nevermind the fact that my H brought the two of them and all of their drama in, in the first place!) "The only time I think about her is when you bring it up." (WRONG! The only time we talk about it is when I brought it up!) "Her H is crazy" (And right about 95% of the stuff he was telling me!)

I hope this isn't the case w/your H, Angela. The bottom line is that you, as a BS, have to talk about it until you can put it to rest. THAT has to be done on your time and schedule, not your WS. I hope he can understand this. He did it, he has to help YOU through it!

Sorry for being so blunt. All the mis-placed blame just chaps my ass!

Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

One word.....manipulation.

Carol~

Hey GT,

Have I told you lately how great you are? I LOVE that you're so honest with us. I would have given ANYTHING if my h had acted even HALF as remorseful and responsible as you do. I cant' TELL you the number of your posts I've thought, "Wow, I'm NOT crazy!" about because you've confirmed something I thought was probably going on with my husband. You post as a FWS, in general, but I think you're on the mark with the way lots of WS's think - especially when you're talking about the early days.

THANK YOU for sharing this with us.

Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

"Have I told you lately how great you are? I LOVE that you're so honest with us."

Ditto!!!!

Charlie

I think you answered your own question: condundrum!!!!!

Monica

Thank you for telling me that. Sometimes I hesitate to jump in for fear that I'm being too blunt, or that I'm projecting too much of my thinking into someone else's situation. And I never want to be guilty of pretending that I know what every WS is thinking or feeling. But some things seem to be common after Dday. One of which is.......the WS lies to cover their hide.

Thanks for the kind words.  You too Charlie. 

GT

<<Carol is right. Speaking as a FWS, when I said "I don't think of the OP unless you bring them up" I was using it as a manipulation tactic to throw it back in my husband's face. I wanted to shut him up and that was the most effective way I found. >>

 

Thanks GT for the validation.  I said it was manipulation because my H said the samething, and yes, just to get me to shut up!  And it worked until I figured it out!

Carol~

Lola

<<One of the other things he continually tells me is that he compartmentalized the A and when not thinking about it--it was not a part of who he was (of course I would think the flip is true as well--when with her I did not exist nor our children-in my words not his). Does this make sense? I am not sure if he is fooling himself or trying to pull one over on me, or if it is the truth. I suspect it is somewhere in the middle of the three options. >>

I struggle with the same thing. I can't see how my H ever thought much of me or our daughter when he was with the OW. If he thought anything of us at all while he was with the OW, it had to be negative. Otherwise wouldn't he have stayed away from the OW? Anyway, I realized there had to be a physical attraction to being with. So he found the OW physically attractive once so why doesn't he continue to find her attractive, she hasn't been grossly disfigured in an accident or anything like that so how can I believe he doesn't think about her at all. I think the WS think about the OP but they don't want to talk about it. Not talking about it screams DANGER! DANGER! DANGER! to me. I don't know if you have read my post but I made the mistake when my H admitted the first time and begged for forgiveness of not talking about it anymore AND not verifying a lot of things. Who knows if I had continued to ask question maybe I would have found out about the 1st OC sooner and things would be a lot different no. I don't know.

I found myself preferring not to talk about it. When you don't talk about it, things don't get resolved. It has helped me to limit what I ask or tell. I have found if I feel like I need to ask something, I wait a few days before I ask. Some things don't stay on my mind and I have been able to determine those facts are really not important to me and I can let go of the need to know, other things I can't let go and if they stay on my mind for several days I need the answer.

The other thing you may want to think about. I thought about this when my H said the OW threatened that 'she better not get sued, if he didn't get control of his W, it was on and I would regret it'. (She was slandering me and I called and told her she may think she is above the law but she isn't, there was God's law and man's law, breaking God's law was between her and God and the Lord will take care of that, but she would be held accountable to man's law if she continued to slander me, she didn't know me, I had only spoken to her on the phone 3 times in my entire life, I had been involved in children's ministries for years, and making false statements about how I was mentally unstable and not safe around children would not be tolerate. She had 2 choices, shut up or continue slander me and be held accountable for breaking the law.) Anyway, I told my H, she was threatening you not me. What can she do to me, sleep with my H, oh yeah that's right she already did that once, twice, 10, 100, she can't be truthful to how many times she slept with you what would 1 more time matter, it would just make it easier for me to leave if you would ever touch her again, would it hurt anymore than it does now, I don't think so.

So as far as your concern about your H only thinking of the OW, because you are asking questions, I don't believe it and I agree it is just a tool of manipulation. Your H made the decision to commit A and now he needs to live with the consequences of his decision or get out of your life. You didn't ask to go through this. You don't want these questions in your head.

But you also have to forgive and you can't hold this over his head forever. I don't think that is what you want to do. For some questions, the only way you are going to be able to live peaceful is to get the honest answer, others you may be able to let go without an answer.

H2C,

> my wife for the last year has been the one who
> most often brings up affair discussions.

Count yourself lucky... In the 6+ years since D-Day, my wife has not brought up her "mistake" a single time. Sure, she'll talk about other peoples affairs, but she has never spoken a word of her own actions unless I bring it up...

Lola,

> the only time he thinks about her is if I bring her up.

That was one of the MAJOR issues I had to deal with during my recovery. Her actions destroyed my world, and yet it never seemed to cross her mind for a minute. It would have meant so much to me if just once she could have said "I'm sad today because I've been thinking about what I did...". But, it never happened...

Anthony

Anthony wrote: >>Count yourself lucky... In the 6+ years since D-Day, my wife has not brought up her "mistake" a single time. Sure, she'll talk about other peoples affairs, but she has never spoken a word of her own actions unless I bring it up ... <<

... but to be fair to your W, Anthony, you've decided that never speaking about her "mistake" is okay with you.

It has taken me a long time to reply to what all of you have said even though I started this thread. You'll understand why, shortly. I was trying to reconcile in my mind how I was going to continue to get answers to questions, how I was going to make known how I was feeling about things at any given moment, without reiminding my H of the OW. He told me the only time he thought of the OW was when I brought it up and I certainly didn't want to be the cause of him thinking of them.

I asked for your opinions and I got them. Only I got information I wasn't expecting to hear. I did not expect to hear so many of you tell me I was being manipulated. I have to admit that at first when I read what some of you wrote I felt offended and even angry. I thought, how do they know he's doing that? They don't know my husband. They don't know how hard he is trying. We're being above board and honest with each other now. Well, the truth of the matter is, it is I who still does not know my husband. It hurts like hell to admit that.

After letting what you said perk in my head awhile, I broached the subject again with my H and brought up what many of you said about his answer being a manipulation tactic. So then I asked him once again if he thought about the OW. His answer this time was, "Of course I still think of them!" He might as well have said, "How stupid ARE you?" because that is how I felt.


We talked alot after that. We talked about why he is still lying. It would take more time than any of us has for me to give you the history of his life and why he does what he does. But there seems to be similarities in what some of you have said. He said that when I ask my questions it brings up his insecurites, his failures, his shame, his feelings of his own worth.

He wrote this in a letter to me, "I am terrified, filled with dread, and scared our end is near. Your questions always reach into the core of my being and attack my internal struggle of how and why. Your countenance drives me to the edge of despair. There never seems to be enough time to sort out the correct and honest answer. The correct and honest answer requires a journey into my own personal hell. Intellectually I know I am human and in most cases my actions, reactions and thoughts are normal to the human species. However, my journey into myself requires that I not only find the answer but that I come to terms with it before I answer. I find it difficult to rapidly reconcile the intellectual with the emotional and come to terms with it; the easiest answer comes out. ...Because I don't measure up and I know that truth is ugly, I resist quick emotional truths. To receive an honest answer from the depths of my heart you need to help me take the time to face my demons and myself."

Now I have some truths I need to reconcile in MY mind. I'm trying to understand what he is saying. Right now though I feel as if we are back to square one. I was trying hard to regain some of the trust I had lost in him. There have been MANY positive things he has done to get back some of that trust. But his lying when I thought we were working on being honest with each other was a huge blow. He says when he thinks of the OW it is triggered by something. He doesn't think about them in a lustful way or of the things they did, or of missing them, etc. He does think about them sometimes when dealing with me so as not to set off triggers for me and hurt me more. He does think about the A in the context of trying to figure out why and how he could do what he did as opposed to thinking of the individuals. If something triggers a thought of them he puts it out of his mind because he is trying to work on the building of our future together, not reliving the past which is jeapordizing that future. The thing is, I don't know what to believe anymore. I wonder now how much of what he has said to me over the last 7 months was the truth and how much was a lie. For that matter, I now wonder how much of what he has said over the last 30 yrs. was the truth or a lie!

I've been trying to work through my feelings based on what I knew to be fact and based on what he has told me. I thought I was making progress. I thought we were making progress. I thought, as painful as this all is, that we could get through it. Now all I know is that I am more confused than anything.

<<<To receive an honest answer from the depths of my heart you need to help me take the time to face my demons and myself." <<<<

Sounds like a couple of rounds of counselling may help both of you.


And as you walk you make your path Kat

Quinn,

> to be fair to your W, Anthony, you've decided that never
> speaking about her "mistake" is okay with you.

It was never "okay" with me, but I couldn't force her to talk about it if she wasn't willing. After a few years of fighting to get her to talk, I eventually just gave up.

Anthony

Howdy Angela,

I didn't post before because everyone had already stated what I was thinking ...manipulation...avoidance. It sure does work...at least for a short while doesn't it?

<<<To receive an honest answer from the depths of my heart you need to help me take the time to face my demons and myself." <<<<

When does he plan on getting started on this? And what does he expect you to do in the mean time?

I agree with Kat, maybe its time for a good MC.

As Winston Churchill once quoted: "It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required."
What do you require Angela?

Regards,

Tex

<<We talked alot after that. We talked about why he is still lying. It would take more time than any of us has for me to give you the history of his life and why he does what he does. But there seems to be similarities in what some of you have said. He said that when I ask my questions it brings up his insecurites, his failures, his shame, his feelings of his own worth. >>

There it is, Angela. It causes HIM to reeeeeeeally look at himself. My ex had issues on TOP of issues from his childhood that shaped the adult he is. He learned to sneak around and do things and just "not get caught" and to always do what was asked of him because it was easier than maybe going against the grain and being punished by his abusive, alcoholic step-dad.

It does sound like your H knows that he has some things to work on and WOW, that's a good sign.

That being said, as someone who was told on the day we divorced, "It wasn't you who was torturing me all this time, it was my own guilt", your H absolutely HAS to deal with the hows and whys of his A. In my situation, my ex filtered out a lot of the GOOD about me and "us" so he could live with what he did. Evidently, it didn't work very well for him.




Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

I agree with Tex and Monica...your H KNOWS he has some demons to restle with, which is a really good sign. And I think that letter says it all!  So when is he going to start looking deep into himself, restle with those demons and get rid of them (or learn to deal with them is more like it) so the two of you can get on with your marriage? 

I do not agree with doing MC right now unless HE goes to IC as well.  MC did not work for me and my H for several reasons: 1) H has huge demons that have absolutely nothing to do with the marriage.  Yes, the affect the marriage but they need to be dealt with all by themselves in IC first.  2)  H has not even admitted that he has demons. 3) H is not willing to the hard work necessary and is avoiding any issues and problems and 4) I have my own issues that need to be dealt with too. Like why I let my H treat me this way and how I can be a stronger person and not be manipulated (which is how I knew you were being manipulated and he was avoiding).  If he is going to IC and together you are going to MC I think the two of you could really reconnect and make it work and maybe be even one of those couples that end up having a better marriage than before.  I certainly see a willingness on your part. But he has to do the hard stuff in IC that he has been avoiding.  Avoiding problems do not make them go away and he has to understand that.

I do see some positive signs from your H...things I wish my H would show me.  Your H has acknowledged that he is avoiding his demons and has admited to the manipulation and lies, and he knows he does this because it is easier than resteling those demons.  Admitting all of that is a good thing..he is not in denial any more. Now all he has to do is be willing to find out what those demons are and go to battle with those demons...we call that doing the hard work necessary, and one of the reasons why we say it is all about how the WS was feeling when they had the A and nothing to do with the BS.  Do you see that now?  You can work and work and work on the marriage but nothing is going to change unless "the WS does the hard work necessary" to work on themselves and figure out why they had the A ...this is a vital part of rebuilding and healing for both of you

Take Care,

Carol~

GT said, "What I really meant was...I only think about my affair and the OM in a "bad light" when you bring it up and force me to. My husband didn't recognize it as manipulation and stopped asking questions about my affair because he wanted/needed so badly to believe me. Years later we were still stepping around that elephant in our living room. And all those answers he needed were hanging over our heads like a big black cloud."

I think this is exactly what has gone on at our house for a long time. The difference is that my gut tells me it is indeed manipulation but my need to believe her is stronger except when triggered and there has been a lot of triggers lately. Trust issues start coming up again and that dark cloud gets bigger and bigger.

Will they ever understand how important the truth is to us? To get the truth we must talk about the affair yet they do all they can to avoid talking about it.

I think I need to clarify something here. And again, I know I don't speak for all WS on this, but maybe what I was feeling and thinking will help someone understand what is going on in the mind of a WS.

When I first ended my affair I thought of the OM constantly. He was like a drug for me. At the time I believed it was love and that's why I couldn't leave him alone. Why else would I be hurting so much over the loss of that relationship? That was my "truth" at the time and I would have sworn I was missing him because I loved him. But yet all the while I was still claiming I loved my husband and wanted to stay in my marriage.

As time went by my "truth" changed and I came to see that it wasn't love. And that I was reacting to the addiction and what I felt I was getting from the OM, not reacting out of some great love I had for him. I didn't want to think about the OM. And if someone had offered me a way to stop, I'd have taken it. I poured through books and went to see a therapist in an attempt to get over him. It finally took me "thinking" my way through it to stop the thoughts of him. I was letting my emotions rule me and they were leading me to believe things that weren't true. I see all of that clearly now, but I didn't then.

Right after Dday I could already see the ugliness of my affair, even though I still felt an attachment to the OM. And anytime my husband brought it up I had to face it even more. I simply was not ready to delve into the why of my affair and my emotions concerning the OM. So I manipulated my husband into shutting up about it. My dilemma at the time was, do I tell my husband I love the OM or do I lie and say I don't think I do? Which is going to hurt worse? I didn't know what was best at the time and I floundered around with my head up my butt for a very long time.

Looking back now my answers (the one's I did give) were all over the place. Instead of just simply speaking the truth, I calculated my answers based on any number of things that were running through my warped perception at the time. I'm not saying that justifies the lies or the excuses I made to not talk about the affair. But even though I created it, I didn't know how to get us out of the shit we were standing in anymore than my husband did.  At Dday it probably would have meant much more to my husband had I simply thrown my hands up in the air and said......I have no clue where to go from here. Instead I just heaped on more lies and confusion when I did provide answers. 

All of this was going on even though I'd made my choice to stay in my marriage. No one was forcing me to stay married, I made that choice on my own. And I made it because deep down I knew I loved my husband and he was the one I wanted to be with. At the time I couldn't tell you why I knew that to be the right choice, I just knew it. Somehow I knew what I had with my husband was "real" as opposed to what I had with the OM.

But I continued to keep my thoughts and feelings concerning the affair and the OM to myself. I didn't want to tell my husband I had strong feelings for the OM. I saw the hurt in his eyes anytime my affair came up and that was one reason (notice I said "one") I lied. I knew how those talks made me feel, so I made the choice to shut them down because in my mind they weren't doing either of us any good.

I didn't understand that my husband needed my truth (no matter how unpleasant it was) to begin the healing process. I also didn't understand why he needed my truth to process through the mess I had created. I honestly felt we were better off if we didn't talk about it. And if we just picked up the pieces and went on. Plus it was much easier for me to do that than to imagine wading through it. I see now how selfish that was and  how I made that choice without considering what my husband needed.

We've often said they are three healings going on after an affair. And the WS has their own process to go through. We lie for any number of reasons. But over time "our truth" may change, as in my thinking that I loved the OM. At almost 8 years out I can say without a doubt that what I had with the OM was never love. But at the time I thought it was. In my heart it had to be love because I thought of him so often and couldn't get over him. Now my heart and my mind tell me that I was mis-reading what I felt for him because I needed so badly to believe it was something it wasn't. 

Do I think there are cases where a WS stops thinking about the OP right after Dday. No, I don't believe that's possible, but I only have my situation to go on. Some affairs last a very short time and the emotional attachment not as strong as the one I allowed to develop. And in some cases there might not be an emotional attachment at all, it was just physical. I would say it makes sense that those folks stop thinking of the OP a lot sooner than I did.

I think it's safe to say that the WS does think about the OP after Dday to some degree. But what are those thoughts? Are they a longing for the person, or do they think of them in the context of......oh my goodness what was I thinking? I have talked with a few WS who said their thoughts of the OP were the latter right after Dday.

If you've spent enough time with someone and it's labeled an affair, then I think human nature comes into play and things happen daily that make you think of that relationship, at least right after the relationship ends. Over time that fades. I don't think of the OM in the same light today that I did right after Dday. And I don't look at that relationship as anything other than the bad choice it was. 

Again, I don't know what's going on in the mind of every WS out there. But I do know most lie when confronted, at least at first. And we lie for various reasons. Even though we created the mess, we're trying to process it just like the BS is. And right after Dday most WS don't know how to "fix it" any more than the BS does. I know it seems the least we could do is tell the truth. I wish I could explain (in a way that made sense) why some of us don't, but quite honestly it doesn't make sense to me either.

GT

 

Angela - I liked the exerpt from your husband's letter very much. For what it's worth, it seemed insightful and very honest, at least to me. I believe him when he says that this process is very painful for him. I also believe him when he says that he needs time to go through the process.
 
The two of you seem to be making alot of progress. I agree with Tex and Monica and Carol ... there are several very hopeful signs. For example - your h realizes that he has some demons to wrestle with. Just as importantly, he has reached a point at which he is willing to acknowledge to you that he has some demons to wrestle with. In many ways, you can't ask much more from a person.

GT - Thanks (once again) for your candor and honesty. You're the best. You know that don't you? You wrote:

>>I wish I could explain ... but quite honestly it doesn't make sense to me either<<

To me, you've made about as much sense out of it as possible. There are just some things that we (human beings) do that don't make sense. There are some aspects of affairs which probably never will make any sense, mainly because they don't make sense. That's something that I think I have (finally?) learned to accept.

As I have posted before I had a ...I guess you could call it a revenge ONS. A few main reasons why(here come the justications): it depended on my mood at the time in the reasoning behind what I said/did. Sometimes the overwhelming need was there to feel better about myself and other times just to hurt her and still other times because in my mind I had just been given a free get out of jail card to be with another woman. Take your pick. All are the truth and I suppose all are excuses.

Years later and after much reflection whatever the truth was/is the bottom line is it was still wrong. Shame is not an easy thing to live with and I'll bet the odds is usually masked behind other emotions/justifications...whatever. Anything not to deal with the shame. Looking at your spouse is difficult enough. Living inside your own skin however can be even harder. Afterall I'm stuck there 24/7...for the rest of my life knowing at one point in my life I was weak.

Edited to add: One last quick thought...its very hard to be honest with your spouse when you can't even be honest with yourself. Ouch...this was painful to write.

Tex

Quinn wrote>>The two of you seem to be making alot of progress. I agree with Tex and Monica and Carol ... there are several very hopeful signs. For example - your h realizes that he has some demons to wrestle with. Just as importantly, he has reached a point at which he is willing to acknowledge to you that he has some demons to wrestle with. In many ways, you can't ask much more from a person>>

Angela, I know it must seem as if we've thrown a lot at you on this thread. And we've asked you to take a look at something about your husband that's not pleasant. And that is, he's manipulated you into thinking he no longer has thoughts of the OW.

I agree with what Quinn wrote above. Even though you uncovered something you maybe didn't want to see, the prodding forced your husband to open up to you and write that letter. I don't imagine that was an easy thing for him to face. And it couldn't have been easy for him to find the words to explain it to you. But he did it. And my guess is he did it because he truly wants to find a way to show you that he's trying to work his way through this. Otherwise he would dig his heels in and continue to lie and make excuses.

Try to understand that this is a process for both of you. And it takes a lot of time. He's at a loss just as you are when it comes to knowing which direction to go and what he needs to be doing.

In our case I can look back and see that the times I felt we were going backwards with each new revelation from me, we were actually going forward. It didn't feel like it at the time. It felt more like we were both being punched in the gut yet again.

I see the letter your husband wrote as a very good thing. And a start in the right direction on his part. It's a piece of a very big puzzle that has now found it's place in the affair recovery process. Try to view those pieces as your progress. I know when I talk about it taking years for me to see things as they really were it must scare the hell out of the BS reading. Looking down the road at it taking years for a WS to wade through what they did must sound unbearable. But your husband sounds like he is willing to go down that road. Many WS aren't, and never will be willing.

Angela, I hope I haven't dashed your hope. Because it honestly sounds to me like your husband is at least mindful of what he has done, and he's willing to try and understand it and help you understand how he feels. It's a long process. But with both partners working on it together it can be done.

GT 

Thanks Quinn. 

 

GT....WOW, thanks...those two posts are absolutely brilliant!  You have such a way with words and you are so open.  You have no idea how much your insight helps...

I find myself thanking you a lot lately

Carol~

GT has helped a lot of people over a long period. Me included.

Thanks GT.

Chris.

<<<In our case I can look back and see that the times I felt we were going backwards with each new revelation from me, we were actually going forward. It didn't feel like it at the time. It felt more like we were both being punched in the gut yet again.>>>

GT, I totally understand this feeling. I thought we were back at square one and so did my H. I believed it was hopeless because I was afraid I could never trust him again. He believed it was hopeless because I felt that way and that no matter how hard he had been trying and would continue to try, it wouldn't be enough. But it got us talking more and understanding a little more. We had a session with the MC shortly after all this came about. One of the things he suggested was that I try being more specific with my questions. Rather than asking if he still thinks of the OW, ask what I really need to know, as in, do you replay the lovemaking in your head, do you think of the things you did and shared together in a fond way and reminisce about it, etc. At first I thought it was just semantics. To me thinking about OW encompassed EVERYTHING. But my husband doesn't think that way. To him "thinking" means more like dwelling on something, whereas he has thoughts that pop up in his head. Sometimes they are triggered by something. Sometimes they pop up for no apparent reason. However, he says he tries to put them out of his head or tries to figure out why he did that and it makes him feel ashamed, etc. What the thoughts do not do is bring back good feelings, only the carnage it has brought to us. I also need to give him time to think about how to answer a question sometimes. Sometimes the answer is more complex, as this one was, and requires more than a simple yes or no answer. And he needs time to think it through NOT to create a lie but to sort out his thoughts so that he can best explain it to me.

I appreciate EVERYONE'S open and honest answers on this subject. Although it brought me some pain initially, it also, I believe, brought us one step closer to understanding each other. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Please keep telling it like it is!

Angela

>>What the thoughts do not do is bring back good feelings, only the carnage it has brought to us. I also need to give him time to think about how to answer a question sometimes>>

It's important to note that the thoughts don't bring about good feelings, so he's not longing for that relationship. I didn't long for it either, I just couldn't get the thoughts out of my head. But looking back I see that I needed that time to process through it.

My husband is a "thinker." Sometimes it will take him a day or two to give me an answer to something. I've learned to sit back and let him have his time. As long as it gets brought up again later then this method works much better for us than if I press him to give me answers on the fly.

Angela, it sounds like you guys are making progress. Keep that communication going, because IMO that's a big key to recovery. 

I also wanted to say how proud I am of you for looking at this thread as something positive. It takes strength to look something in the face and wade through it. Good for both of you.