If I don't blow off some steam, I'll take it out on my H & I don't want to do that. I just got a late payment for the rent. We were told from the beginning that if we wanted to have a chance to buy our house back that we had better not be late on any payments.Well, we started making payments in April & here we are late in June! I bugged Terry last week to hurry up & mail the payment & he told me that he didn't have all the money. So, I even gave him $250 dollars so that there would be enough.Anyway, when I spoke to him on the phone just now(no, I didn't yell!) he said that he 2 day mailed it on Friday. So, I called the contracting place that is the middle man for the payment & they said that it is considered late on the 5th & that the payment didn't reach them until the 7th. So, now we've already screwed up.I don't understand why H can't take care of the bills. And yes, I already know what you guys are going to say"Don't blame your H". "Why arn't you handling the bills". Well, I don't know how much money he is making,so I can't pay the bills if I don't have the money.We each have our own accounts. If I have lost any chance of getting my house back, I am gonna SCREAM!!!!!!! There, I'm done venting!
It's still about the A ,but it's also about other stuff.I do talk to him. I explained to him tonite via phone that we can't be late on our rent payments or we'll never get to buy our house back! After all the stuff I've been thru I can't survive not being able to own our home again. Everything keeps going wrong & it would probably be funny except this is my life. I've never had so many things go wrong in all my life.We get no relief at all.It's so hard to just try & survive.I'm trying to do my part in all of this. He use to do all the yard work & our yard was lovely. Well, the last 2 yrs. our yard has looked awful. Yesterday I got fed up & decided to start working on it myself. I hate yard work but he's never around so I'll do some of it.Anyway, I wish he would 'step up to the plate" & take care of his family. Granted, he's finding as much work as he can BUT he isn't checking into what we have to do to get to the point where we can get our house back. I have told him lots of time that we need to meet with a credit councilor & find out the info.
Barbara, is it possible that "this" is just the wrong home for you? If you have to scratch for rent money every month, maybe it's time to find something more affordable.
I understand what you are saying Chris but I do my daycare out of my home & if we move there would go the income from that. Also, there are not alot of houses around here that have room for 6 people. Also, the rents around here are crazy. We were told that we would only save about $350 a month if we tried to rent somewhere else around here.So, my H feels that it's better to stay here & try & get our house back within the 2 yr. limit.
Barb...what about on line banking? You could identify your mortgage company as a payee and pay the payment from his account. you need to have all accounts registered on line and then simply take the money out of the account when the bill is due. If you bank on line you will always know how much money is in your husbands account....unless he doesn't want you to know that information....which is somewhat weird since you are a married couple...but anyway, you could take care of that payment and just take out of each account the money you need to do it. How does that sound? Just a thought. I do on line banking and bill paying all the time. It is so easy. You just need to set up the accounts with your banks. Hope this helps.
Thanks Sage! I will ask H about it. The payment can't be sent directly to the landloards. It has to go thru this Contract Servicing company in Salem OR. Then it is sent to the proper place from there.
Thanks Carol! I reminded H on the phone yesterday that he had said over a week ago that we would come up with a game plan for getting things back in order.He told me last nite that we can sit down & talk sometime this weekend.I plan on holding him to that this weekend! I always get put on hold & then I get forgotten. He says that all he can focus on is getting enough work to pay the rent , utilities, etc.It seems like I have been forced into a holding pattern. The marriage & I are forced to wait until sometime in the future when he will have time for "us".So, nothing gets resolved about the A or anything else.
I gotta ask. When is he home enough to do everything you want/expect done? Honestly if I was Mr Barb my head would be spinning from everything. In fact..I'd be welcoming having to leave and work. Maybe you are giving him so much he can't do any of it and when he does it doesn't seem to be good enough.
I'm afraid like what Bob said to Kathy you are gonna push him to where its just not worth it anymore. The poor guy can't do anything up to your standards.
Do you remember when I suggested you set priorities considering the lack of time y'all have? Pin point something and ask for that. At the time it was a letter. What did I tell you? Ok...when he comes home ask he spend that time writing a letter. What happened? Y'all went to a movie instead. And no Barb you can't blame him for your choice to go.
So what if you had to mow the lawn. We all have to do crap we don't want too. It had to be done, you were there, so you did it.
You might not want to hear this but you are beating this man with in an inch of his emotional life. And if he does leave will you blame him?
What was y'alls life style before this Barb? I am asking because it seems he did most everything before and now you are having to do some of it and you don't like it.
Yes you are right. But your right is gonna cost you your marriage if you don't find another way of communicating with your H.
Do you wanna be right or do you want your marriage? You are chasing him away Barb. Stop it if you want to be with him. You are gonna lose this man if you don't find another of talking to him.
He was there after and maybe during a very rough time in your time. He stood by you through all of that. Doesn't he doesn't a chance at the same?
Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Jun 10, 2006 5:41 PM
Tex, I don't really get some of what you're saying. He didn't do everything before he lost his job. I totally took care of the house & kids & all the kids activities. He did the yard work ever since we've been together because he enjoyed it.I also worked all the time. So, there was never a burden on him all these years.He just worked & came home.I don't see where I am driving him away. I don't see anything unfair about wanting the proof about the mexico/california trip. I have asked for proof of the info since last fall. I still don't have the proof. You always say that the WS has to be open & supply info. So why am I not within my rights to want that proof after 10 months of asking. If he lied about this bachalor party thing then he's gone!He promised me no more lying. So, I need to know the truth before 10 more months go by. He's at that place of business(different part of the same building) 5 days a week. So, what unfair pressure do I seem to be putting on him by telling him I want the proof? I deserve to know the truth. Did he work or was he at the party?!How can I even begin to heal when I am not getting the info that I need? I never complained,except on this site, about doing the yard work now. All I did was phone & ask him a couple of questions about the yard work! It's not my thing & I know nothing about it. You're talking to a woman who can kill cacti!!!! I even went to the store today & bought some flowers to plant in the big planter by the front door. Again, it's not my thing but I did it. So, when he gets home at 2 or 3 a.m. he will be surprised.I don't really think he has it so bad right now(other than the financial mess). HE cheated & yet still has his wife & kids. It seems like I am bad for not just taking all this crap. Afterall, he hasn't done anything to figure out why he cheated. Am I just supposed to sit around for years & wait for him to write the letter, figure out why he cheated, etc., etc. I just don't really get what you guys are trying to say!!!!Clarify? By the way Tex, you brought up the letter writing instead of going to the movies AFTER he & I had already gone to the movie.Just wanted to set that straight. I don't think I'll be going out with him much anymore.I just feel like I don't have a H because of all that he's done.I'm beginning to think it's stupid to go out to a movie & act like everything is fine.I don't know this guy anmore. The guy I married didn't lie & had morals.
This message has been edited by Barbarapat on Jun 11, 2006 12:04 AM
You have mentioned that Terry only has time to come home to sleep and then he is off again. And I think that you only see him on the weekends (?) Tex asked you "when is he home enough to do everything you expect/want?"
Have you looked at this logically, and perhaps compassionately, to see exactly WHEN he would be able to fit these things into his schedule? Could it be he is so damn tired that he just feels he just can't add one more thing? Could he be so damn tired that he simply forgot the date and that's why the rent was late? I know when I'm under a lot of stress for a while I've done stuff like that.
My sense is that you expect him to be superhuman to atone for having the affair. He's still just made of flesh and blood. You mentioned before that he had said that he has all he can handle right now -- just working so that he can pay the rent and utilities, etc. So have you figured out logically how and when he could do these extra things?
BTW, I'm confused. I thought you were separated. ?
To paraphrase Chris and Colin Powell: "Drive your life looking thru the windshield and not the rear view mirror".
"""If he lied about this bachalor party thing then he's gone!He promised me no more lying. So, I need to know the truth before 10 more months go by. """"
Have you even considered he may have told you the truth as he sees it? Is this kind of thinking conducive to communication?, deep and meanful communication? If it were me, I would feel threatened to the max.... and caught in a "damned if I do, and damned if I don't" power play.
Barb, what we have been trying to convey to you is beating up a WS, being condescendent, endless criticism, showing contempt, being defensive is not helping build a solid marriage. It is his marriage too, Barb. Your H is completly, totally flooded. He is shutting down as a way to protect himself. You want and demand certain things. What does HE want? do you know, have you asked him?
We can only read what you write. And what you relate to us paint a pretty dim picture. Show us you treat your H as an equal and not like a child who can't get anything right - what you perceive to be right.
As for WHY one has an affair..... books have been written. There is not a definite reason. Is the affair over? If it is sit down and talk as 2 adults, listen to what he is saying with words and actions. Accept his short comings, accept him for who and what he is. Make plans, create a road map - help each other and make a decision. Love IS a decision, Barb.
No, we're not seperated.I asked him to leave but then he wanted to talk to me that night & he ended up staying. No, he didn't forget when the rent was due. I started reminding him about 10 days befoe it was due, that he needed to take care of it. He's always been that way with bills & money. I've asked him for years to let me handle those things.
I don't see him on the weekends either. My question is what am I supposed to do about the whole A mess & all his lies? Am I just supposed to put my life & marriage on hold until he maybe finds a job someday?
Barb, to put it bluntly...do you want to be right, or do you want to be married to your husband? You're setting it up that way...which do you really want?
TIME....there's that awful word again. It takes TIME to get over the A. It takes TIME to heal. It takes TIME to figure out the "why". It takes TIME to get the answers to our questions. It takes TIME to go to counseling. But what happens when you don't have time? You dont have TIME to pay the bills. You dont have TIME to go to the Dr.s. You don't have TIME for your wife and kids. But somehow, someway, you found the TIME for the A.
My old C once asked me what hurt me the most about the A. I replied "Because he has no time for me but found time for OW. He has no time to do anything with the kids but found time to cheat." Maybe this is what Barb is trying to say. He had time for OW and to meet his own needs, so why doesnt he have time for her and what needs to be done at home. So to say he is too tired or does not have the TIME, seems to be an attack on her when her H obviously had the time and energy for OW and the A. All I know is that this is how I felt (and still do many times). I am not saying anyone is wrong or right, but I certainly sympathize with Barb here...and I udnerstand her H's need to work.
My C also talked about over and under functioning. Men tend to over function at work and under function at home because most of us women tend to take up the slack and step in for our spouse. And most men feel the need to support the family finacnially as their main role. And I know they have a lot of financial problems and him working less is not the answer, but there are things he can do to make it more of a balance, even while he is away at work, like write the letter. Instead of going out with the guys and drinking one night, he could stay in and take the time to write the letter. During breaktime one day, he could stop by the office and ask for the paperwork, or make a phone call and get it. And to call Barb at night like she has requested. I dont think that is too much to ask for. These are little things that mean a lot to Barb, and it really isnt putting him out, but yet he isnt doing it and it hurts her. I understand that he may be tired and overwhelmed, but I also see that he cold be putting forth more of an effort to help Barb heal by doing those few little things. Maybe he cant do everything she needs done, but he can do some of them.
Barb said they were going to sit down and talk...that is a start. Maybe Barb can tell him what is most important to her and maybe together they can figure out a way to find the time to do what needs to be done for Barb, and for both of them to heal.
Kat, concerning the california/mexico trip you said that maybe my H was telling the truth as he sees it. What do ya mean by that? Either he was working or he was at that damn bachelor party.I don't see where there's any gray area. He either told the truth or lied. Like I said, I've waited 10 months for him to show me some proof. Afterall, it was a business & records have to be kept. You also mentioned the quote about looking in the windshield . Well, guess what, everything keeps going wrong so I don't really see sunny times ahead either. I see more of him never being around & more of him not having time to do what needs to be done for me to heal.If I listed all the bad things that have happened the last 2 years ya wouldn't believe it.He isn't willing to leave the area & he hasn't even had any job interviews so I don't see change happening. H will continue to work 20 hrs. a day, the kids & I will continue to be without him & he will continue to say" things will get better". We will probably not get the house back because he hasn't checked into what we have to do to get it back.So, I get up each day , realizing that what we had is over & he is not the person that he was & I just have to deal with the kids & myself.There is no "family" or "husband" anymore. He decided to throw that away when he had the A.There is nothing to look forward to. This has been going on for over 17 months & nothing has gotten any better.
CAROL, you are right on target!! We sit here & wait for him to be a husband & dad again & it hasn't happened. And as I wrote in response to Tex's post. I am not complaining to him that I am having to do the yard work, etc. As I replied before, I have ALWAYS done all the stuff for the kids, worked 7 days a week, done all the household chores, all the birthday & christmas shopping, etc. He never even took out the garbage all those years. So, I have done my part all these yrs. & continue to do so. As I also mentioned earlier, I only bitched about the yardwork on this forum. I didn't complain to him at all. I just do not believe that he is being held responsible for the A & the lies.It seems to me that all he feels he has to do is say"I'm Sorry" & "It'll get better". He hasn't done any work to figure out why he did it.He hasn't done much of what I've told him that I need him to do to heal.He's had over 10 months to write that letter.So, I have no letter, no counciling & no answers from him. I suggested a few times that he post on here but I know he won't. He doesn't do anything to work on the A mess. So, it's no wonder that I feel alone & that I don't trust him or feel like we have a marriage. It's no wonder that the sex now sucks from my point of view. I have lost everything but he got to have his little A & still end up with his wife & kids. HE did what HE wanted to do.I often wonder if he hadn't spent so much time with his secretary maybe he wouldn't have lost his job in the first place.Maybe his mind should have been on his work! Even after he had to fire her he still took time during his work week to take her out to lunch at least once a week. Plus he e-mailed her from work all the time.Just a thought. Anyway, it doesn't matter because the fact is that he still doesn't have a job & the kids & I don't have him anymore.
>>If I listed all the bad things that have happened the last 2 years ya wouldn't believe it.<<
Okay Barb, I'll play.
How about separating, closing/losing your own business, losing your job and house and almost all your assets, getting divorced, raising a teenager who still lives at home, finding a new job without current references (self-employed for 16 years), working 60 hours a week at a physically demanding job while trying to cook and clean and maintain a house and yard, moving, and totalling a reliable vehicle too expensive to fix and worth too little to replace with the settlement? All that on top of at least one physical affair and at least one emotional one beforehand.
Barb, it's possible to experience all those things AND BE HAPPY. My grandmother went through ten times worse than I ever did...and she lived to be 101. I never heard her say a mean or unkind word, nor complain about being left widowed before she was 40 with five children still at home.
It's a choice. I choose to be happy and accept and work around the bad stuff I can't change. When I listened to my anger, I decided I needed to change my attitude, that I couldn't go through life angry any more. Thanks, Grandma.
It's your choice, Barb. You can live your life around what others do and don't do (and always feel disappointed that they don't do what you want), or you can take responsibility for your own happiness.
Let me take another approach with you. Why do you stay in this marriage? You're clearly unhappy with your life, your H, the finances, etc. What is stopping you from pulling up and moving somewhere else? What does he bring to the marriage that you can't live without? You do home daycare, you could do that wherever you relocate. I realize it would take awhile to get a good client base going, but you did it where you are, you could do it again. Why don't you just divorce him and then leave all the "why did he do this and why won't he help me heal" and the lies behind. Are your kids going to wither without him? Marriages end and families split every day. It's not ideal, but it's factual. Close this chapter in your book.
My ex's first A, his reason for cheating? He didn't feel like I cared. THAT'S IT. He didn't do much to help with my healing. In the very beginning, he was very affectionate and loving but basically said I couldn't keep throwing it up in his face. I had allowed him to move back home, if I wanted my marriage to work, I needed to quit beating him up about it. I didn't. Thus, my marriage failed. It wasn't my fault he cheated again, I'm not saying that. It was my fault I SAID I was going to forgive him but never did. After we separated, he told me he had hated to come home for a few months before we split. He hated the tension and all my spying and prying. I did that. I was a scorekeeper - and he had a lot of garbage that he hadn't atoned for, in my mind. I wasn't the one who screwed up, I didn't have anything to work on. HA! Where did that get me? Divorced.
I did a lot of soul searching (coupled with a GREAT counselor) and now, 20 months later, I'm totally at peace with it. I don't CARE why he did it. I don't CARE what he took from me. I don't CARE that he did things for the OW that he never did for me. He has to live with and answer for his part, not me. I can only live with my own part. I'm 100% better off without him.
Barb, if he makes you miserable, get out. You've set boundaries that he hasn't respected. You've told him what you needed to heal, he hasn't done it. You've asked difficult questions, he hasn't answered. Don't just blow up and put him out - and then let him stay, after all. MEAN it.
Monica
This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot
That is the thing about happiness.........and Chris says it very well.............you make a choice.
I would rather be happy and single than unhappy, angry and living in a horrible marriage. Even being unhappy single isn't that bad if you ask me.
To some people the choice to get out of bed in the morning isn't an option. I am thankful that for me, it is. I remind myself frequently of how much I have in comparison to what others don't. It helps to keep me clearly focused and centered on where I want to be.
As Chris said, some of us have lost alot and we still carry on. I am content in my life now, although I didn't lose quite as much as Chris!! But I would still be content if all I left with was the shirt on my back. The fact is, all the material things mean nothing. Houses can be replaced, cars can be purchased, clothes can be bought..........happiness isn't for sale and you won't find it at the corner store. You really need to work to get to that point. I truly believe that happiness is earned, you earn it from yourself.
If you don't like where you are, then make a change. It doesn't have to be a drastic change or it can be a huge change. But it is apparent in your situation that something has to give. If you are under supreme financial stress then you can't afford your lifestyle so you need to figure out what you can and what you can't live without and get rid of some things. Lots of people run home daycares out of all kinds of houses, so I am confused as to why you would lose your business if you had to move.
Take me for example - when my expenses are running way to high and I realize I have used my credit cards too much in a month it always prompts me to sit down and prepare a budget and to make a list of my daily expenditures to find out where my money is really going. It surprises me every damn time!!! People waste so much money that they aren't even aware of.........morning coffee at $1.50 a day = $30 a month. Lunch every day is another $170. When I realized this I started making sandwiches or salads and stopped picking up hot chocolate. I saved $200 a month I am not used to living on a budget since when I was married we had a good income. This is all new to me Barb, but I am okay with it.
You can go on living the way you are, or you can decide to change..............you hold the key to your own destiny.
That was a great post... especially about the "scorekeeping". Winner+loser=divorce (or at least a very unhappy marriage.) Barb the way I read it you have a 1000 points and your H has 0. When he does manage to do something for you he loses a 1/2 point for being late and another 1/2 point for not doing it how you wanted it...so once again he ends up with a big fat zero.
Everyone has a breaking point....BS and WS alike. Being stuck with a zero could his somewhere down the line. Is that what you want?
I told you when you first started posting y'all were in a difficult circumstance because he's never home. Not by choice but because of the situation. Why did he exactly lose his former job? You mentioned before I believe this was y'alls 2nd bankruptcy so what caused the first one?
Have you just come out and asked him if he prefers it this way? Is he honestly happier on the road working? Does he like his job? If the answer is yes then you need to decide whether you want to stay in a "as is" marriage or not.
I also told you alot of folks here would still be married if they decided to just tip toe around their spouse and settle for what they were getting. Some of us are/were and some of aren't/weren't and some of us weren't given a choice in the matter.
I think you need to sit down and figure out exactly what you want and decide what you will do or not do if you don't get it. The same with your H. Then compare notes.
Communicating can be damn scary and maybe that's part of the reason some folks wishy wash around it. They don't wanna know the full extend of what the other wants because then they will been forced to make a desicion. Can I live with this or not?
Heck...sometimes they DO hear it and still choose not to except it.
Like Jean said in this thread...when does your H have time to do everything you want? Yes I know he had time for an A. And??? What does that honestly have to do with anything? He's back in the real world . Time now doesn't include fantasyland. Time now means responsbilities and trying to keep y'all afloat.
I know you are pissed off and angry. then say it, but say it in a way he's not a ZERO. "I'm angry because we don't have alot of time together." "I'm angry because I feel I'm doing everything around here and you aren't here". "I'm angry because I miss you" etc etc. Maybe he's angry too Barb and he just can't express it or feels like he has the right too.
If I was him wanna know what I'd say? "I'm angry because you blame me for everything that has gone wrong." "I'm angry because I'm exhausted all the time." "I'm angry because i can't do anything right in your eyes." "I'm angry because you aren't perfect either and I don't throw it up in your face". "I'm angry because your scoreboard is different than mine."
Yes you are right Barb...but what is that getting you?
Tex, we have never declared bankruptcy.We always had enough to pay the bills.We have told each other how we feel. At least to some extent. I have told him that I hate the fact he's gone all the time & that I don't have a husband & the kids don't have a dad.He says he doesn't like working all the time & that he misses us. BUT, until he gets a regular job with normal hours, things won't change.So, basically we're stuck with this mess.
Someone mentioned getting a divorce, moving elsewhere & doing childcare. Well, there is no money to move elsewhere.You can't find a landlord that will let you rent & do daycare.Too much wear & tear on the house & too much liability. The only reason I get to still do it here is because we did own the house & have the option to buy it back within the next 2 yrs.As far as getting divorced, I'm not worried about the kids not being around their dad. My oldest 2 did fine & they never saw their dad.I grew up without my mom & did fine too.
Obviously after an A, life can suck. And then top it off with all the other crap that can happen, well it aint no picnic.
But what I think everyone here knows so well, is that life isn't something that we can always control. The only thing we can try and control is how we deal with it. I am one who believes that we can't always control every thought or emotion, but we can recognize that and do our best.
So decide what you want, and do your best to attain that goal.
Thanks! I am beginning to think that I should just deal with the kids & me & just push H out of my mind for the time being. He's not here & it doesn't do any good to want to be with him or miss him or even want him to do the things that I need him to do to heal.None of it's going to happen; at least not for a long time.So, why should I care anymore? I just get disappointed & hurt & sad & angry.I just need to put him out of my thoughts. Afterall, it must not be too hard to do. He did it while he had his whole other life with the OW.
Nobody said it was easy Barb, but that it is doable. (is that a word?)
All us people who divorced (Mon, Q, Rose, Tex, Charlie, Chris, MM, Jean, me <who am i forgetting??>) know it is not easy to let go of the one you love. Sometimes you aren't given a choice.
It doesn't matter how strong the love is, sometimes that isn't enough.
If I may be so bold, alot of your problems don't appear to be affair related. It would appear that either they weren't dealt with before, or that they are new problems. Either way, you must deal with these issues on top of the affair issues and that is a big hill for any couple to climb, especially if they live apart.
That's true...most marriages are not perfect before the A. But the A certainly adds a lot more pain, and stress, and makes even the small problems feel HUGE! And huge problems are going to feel giagnatic!!! That's all part of the A crap. The betrayal is hard to get over even with a remorseful spouse (from what I hear). Can you stick it out? Can you learn to forgive? You have to ask yourself questions...and take things one step at a time.
I have to say, that we all have issues of our own, not related to the spouse or the marriage. Usually those issues are what is at the center of the A for the WS. And I agree about change...that the WS is not the only one who needs to change, the BS must also change although they didnt do anything wrong. I know I have changed a lot...and I am a work in progress...not totally there yet but moving at glacier speed, as they say.
I think Barb, with the kids, daycare, financial problems, and H not being around you really have not had much of a chance to process everything and to really work on yourself...figure out exactly what you want and make the changes in your life to get there (you have a lot on your plate). It is not easy by any means. When you are ready, when you catch your breath, when you have time to process all of this you will be in a better place....that is when we stope being reactive to the situation and we really start to think more clearly...when the pain has lessened a bit more. You are still in a great deal of pain.
Thanks for the hugs Carol! You're right, I don't have any time to deal with things. The problems that we had before the A never caused any problems. For instance, it was o.k. that H wasn't good at paying the bills on time. I loved him, I knew he loved me, we each paid our own bills & it was his problem if he didn't pay his.But since we went thru the A & losing the house, it does matter now.I've told him that too & he says he understands but who knows. He never lied before(that I know of) so that was never a problem. He was always a good husband & family man.Always home right after work, etc.Now he can't be here & that's hard to deal with.We're supposed to talk tonite. He's comming home early, around 10pm.I don't know what else to say to him because I've said it all. He knows what I need from him in order to heal. He knows I need him to go to the credit councilor & figure out what needs to be done to get our house back. Like, I mentioned before, he is the one that needs to take care of this because I have no idea how much money he's been making or what all of his bills are.So, just what the heck am I supposed to say? I'm getting tired of saying the same thing & I'm sure he's getting tired of hearing it.He did give me a nice Anniversary card yesterday & he actually wrote something in it. WOW!!!He wrote"I know we have a tough road to travel, but I love you & know that at the end of the road we will find happiness & a future that finds us together". That's the most he's ever written to me in the 17 yrs. that we've been together!!
<<<WOW!!!He wrote"I know we have a tough road to travel, but I love you & know that at the end of the road we will find happiness & a future that finds us together". That's the most he's ever written to me in the 17 yrs. that we've been together!!>>>
Whatta you think, Barb-----Can you count that as the letter he owes you?
I don't mean to get off track here. But I'd like to comment on something.
You wrote>> For instance, it was o.k. that H wasn't good at paying the bills on time. I loved him, I knew he loved me, we each paid our own bills & it was his problem if he didn't pay his>>
It seems a little unfair to me that you accepted this before your husband had his affair, yet now you hold it against him as something that you aren't happy about. He has to try and make amends for the fact that he had an affair, I have no arguments with that. But it sounds to me like all kinds of past things he did (that maybe really did bug you but you didn't bring them up) are now being heaped into the affair pile. The way I see it after an affair is there are three piles. What you brought to the marriage, what he brought to the marriage, and the affair. He's responsible for the affair no doubt about that one. But at some point you have to sort through who has to own what when it comes to the marriage and the problems within it.
It seems you are holding things against him that have nothing to do with his affair. Do you see what I am saying? He exhibited several of these behaviors before the affair and you accepted them. Yet now you are not happy about them. I have to agree with some of the others, your husband is most likely confused as to why you didn't have a problem with these things before, yet you do now. And he's most likely confused about what you need from him. Try to sort through what it really is you need and find some way to communicate that to him. It sounds like he's running in all kinds of directions right now just to hold his head above water.
Barbara, I know you must feel that everyone is pushing on you. We're only trying to get you to stop and see things from where your husband is sitting. He screwed up big time, sounds like he knows that. But be clear with him on what exactly it is he screwed up on. Sounds like the bill paying and not doing chores around the house just got thrown into the affair pile and those things truly have nothing to do with the fact that he had an affair.
I have a question mostly out of curiosity I guess. You mentioned that you have seperate accounts and pay your own bills and always have. If you don't mind my asking, why did you choose to do it that way?
GT, I was wondering the same thing. The financial advisors I've listened to on the radio have advised against doing that. On the other hand, I have heard that it seems to work for some people.
This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes: Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward together in the same direction. ~Antoine de St. Exupery.
This speaks of common goals and teamwork.... and common accounts, perhaps? If couples focus on just each other, they'll surely be disappointed. But if they could focus on common goals and living shared values... working together for the greater good, helping each other along the way, filling in each other's weak spots....that looks like a happy and successful marriage to me. My parents had a marriage like that for 54 years. Unfortunately, I found out that I had an unwilling partner.
GT, we have seperate accounts because my first H never worked & squandered all my money.Terry & I dated for a year before we moved in together & I just wanted seperate accounts. We have tried a few times to have a joint account but it was a small disaster. He would never keep his account balanced, was always overdrawn & bouncing checks, etc. So, I went back to having my own account a few months ago because he hadn't been able to make payments on his credit reserve account at the bank. Since my name was on there also, they took $400 out of my account that was at the same bank. So, I had to close my account so they couldn't get any more money & I opened a seperate account at a different bank.He says he understands why the money thing bothers me now.See, before his bad money habits never really hurt us. I figured it was his account & it was his money that was paying the overdraft charges & late fees. Well, when we lost our house; they took the $400 out of my account; & when I got my license taken away because he didn't take care of the payment plan that he had set up with the DMV, then major things were affected.That's the difference this time. Those were major things that got screwed up.I don't mind doing whatever it will take to try & get our house back BUT it's Terry that has to talk to a mortage company & credit counciling place to see how (or if) we can get our house back. I don't have his info to be able to do it. I also am not dragging a bunch of daycare kids to some office to try & talk to someone. He pretty much sets his own schedule on all these side jobs he does, so he should be able to arrange an hr. to go talk to someone.He doesn't have any boss! I will talk with him again tonite but I have been trying to get him to undrstand that we are wasting our time paying rent if we don't even have a chance of getting our house back. Plus I have been trying to get him to understand that the months will go by fast & if he keeps putting it off, the 2 yrs. will be almost over & he will have no info or time left to deal with getting the house back. I'm sure you guys can understand what I'm saying! I told him that I hate to see him work this hard to try & get the house back & then find out that we can't & this has all been a waste of time.I do not complain about him not doing household chores. As I've stated before, he's never even taken the garbage out. as far as the yardwork, I don't like it & I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm doing it.I have not complained to him at all. There are a few things that I can't do that he does need to help with & he says he doesn't mind doing them. I just get bugged because I have to keep mentioning them over & over.You guys seem to think I'm not so nice to him but he doesn't seem to feel that way.Besides, he has a wife who hasn't walked out on him, makes his lunch each day,still has sex with him (even though I get nothing out of it anymore). He says that he knows I'm hurt, & that I have not been treating him bad.The funny thing is that he will go on like this for as long as it takes & I don't think he gets how unhappy I really am.He thinks we're going to be just as happy as before & I don't think he gets how I really feel.
If he doesn't know how unhappy you are then it is YOUR responsibility to tell him that Barb. Men are not good mind readers..........for that matter nobody is. How can you fix a problem you don't know exists.
I am with GT on the money issue. He has apparently lacked responsibility since you met him and is likely confused as to why this bothers you now.
Hi Kid! Well, I had mentioned several times in the past that I didn't know if I could get over all this & that I wasn't happy. Also, I have told him millions of times that I miss the way we were before the A & lies ,& that all of this has destroyed our marriage. He knows I am hurt, unhappy, don't trust him, etc. So, I guess he really does have a pretty good idea of how I feel. He just says that he's sorry, that it's all his fault, that he was happy & doesn't know why he did such a stupid thing.As far as the money situation, I don't think he's confused. I explained how it's different now because his unwise money habits cost us the house & my driver's license, among other things. I just think that since he has always been this way that he isn't inclined to change.Ya would have thought that losing the house ,etc. would have woke him up to the fact that his bad money practices are now costing us bigtime. Anyway we are supposed to talk tonight around 10 pm.He's not good at saying what's on his mind so don't really know if I'll get him to say much. he pretty much deals with everything by saying"I know", "It'll get better" or "I'm sorry".That doesn't really help much!
Some of the things you say are confusing to me so I know they must be confusing to your husband. It sounds like he's getting mixed signals from you.
You wrote>>I explained how it's different now because his unwise money habits cost us the house & my driver's license, among other things<<
If his money habits are that bad wouldn't they have eventually cost you those things even without the affair? I apologize if I am missing something here, but what does his affair have to do with his bad money habits? Sounds like he's always been that way.
>> I just think that since he has always been this way that he isn't inclined to change.Ya would have thought that losing the house ,etc. would have woke him up to the fact that his bad money practices are now costing us bigtime>>
To me that's a mixed signal. Above in another post you mentioned that his money habits didn't bother you before the affair because you loved him and were happy. Yet now you want him to see that his money habits cost you everything? Why would he see that as any different now? In his mind you've put up with it all these years. The only thing that has changed is he had an affair. Again, what does him having the affair have to do with his bad money habits? It sounds like a whole lot of other "stuff" got thrown in his face that have nothing to do with his affair. I agree, he isn't likely to change. And he must be really confused as to why it now bothers you so much when it didn't used to. So.... he's not going to change with the money habit thing. Isn't it time to try a different strategy?
>>He's not good at saying what's on his mind so don't really know if I'll get him to say much. he pretty much deals with everything by saying"I know", "It'll get better" or "I'm sorry". That doesn't really help much>>
And if he does find the words to say what is on his mind, what is your response? I'm going to take a shot and say that he is afraid to speak his mind. He just apologizes because he thinks that's what you want to hear. He doesn't know what else to say. He will continue to apologize and say he hopes things get better for as long as you will accept those answers. He doesn't know what "action" to take Barbara, you will have to help him find his direction with that one.
I guess there are arguments for having two separate accounts but it seems to present a problem for you guys. Sounds like you set that up intially to protect yourself from what happened with your first husband. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that. But if over time it became apparent to you that your now husband couldn't manage money, then why didn't you just take on those responsibilites? After all, you have a big stake in your finances and they reflect on you as well. You both made the choice apparently to have separate accounts. And you say you knew he was not good at managing money. Yet now that your finances are in bad shape you blame only him for losing everything? Where is your responsibility in letting him manage part of your joint property when you knew he was not good at managing money?
Your husband can't take on the whole weight of putting this marriage back together on his shoulders. There are things that I don't like about my husband. And certainly things that he doesn't like about me. He doesn't do some things around the house that I'd like for him to do, so I just do them myself. I don't necessarily like it. But he works and doesn't have the time. By the same token I don't do some things he'd like for me to do either so he just does them.
My husband stinks when it comes to paying bills on time. He can make and manage money but he procrastinates when it comes to actually writing those checks and sending them. Plus he didn't have the time to stay on top of it. He's one of the most intelligent, caring, and sensitive people that I know, yet he puts things off and that drives me crazy. So I decided a long time ago to take it out of his hands for both our sakes. That way I didn't have to nag him and he didn't have to listen to me. Did he like it at first? No, he didn't because he had it in his mind that he could handle things. Now I pay our bills and everyone is happy with the arrangement. I don't particuarly like doing it either, but one of us had to take responsibility for it. And it needed to be the one who didn't procrastinate. I gave up trying to change him because it wasn't going to happen. There are all kinds of examples where he's taken on things that I couldn't handle. Recognizing each other's strengths and weaknesses and then working together on them is a big key to communicating.
The bottom line is it doesn't seem like you guys are working together to get through this. And I have to tell you Barb, I don't think all of that is the fault of your husband. Yes he had the affair and he needs to take ownership of that and I know how it must be easy to pile all the other frustrations you have with him into one big pile. But in order to make this marriage work you're going to have to sort through that pile and cut the man some slack.
Blame him for the affair all you want. No one will give you a hard time about that. Scream and yell all you want when it comes to how much he hurt you and how wrong it was. But don't put everything else the man has ever done in his life wrong into that pile. He will come to resent you for it, and you will continue to resent him. There's no healing in that.
Barbara, I know you have a lot on your plate right now. Keeping children in your home is a big job. And doing all the other things that go along with having a family of your own is a full time job in itself. But learn to do the things that are for the greater good of the relationship. Divvy up the things that each of you is good at. It might be a big load off your husband if you insisted on handling all the money for awhile until you guys are back on track. In exchange maybe your husband could take a chore that you don't like doing. Work together Barb. Make it safe for him to share his thoughts and feelings with you.
You're still there so that says a lot to me. I think it's because you want to still be there and you want this marriage to work. You can do this Barb. I have a feeling you can do anything you set your mind to.
GT
This message has been edited by gettingthere on Jun 12, 2006 10:55 AM This message has been edited by gettingthere on Jun 12, 2006 10:42 AM
H got home about 10:40 pm last night & we sat outside & talked for awhile.He actually talked some! No, he is not at all confused about the money issues. He said that he knows that before he lost his job it wasn't such a big deal that he was late on payments or overdrawn on his account. But, since he lost his job & things went downhill & we lost the house, etc., he says he totally understands that it has now caused big problems.He said that we will sit down in the next week or so & come up with a game plan to talk to people & see if we even have any hope of getting the house back.He was just really tired last night & didn't want to go thru figuring out what to do. Anyway, I got him to talk ALOT last night. It was good! I asked him if he enjoys the side jobs he's doing & if he prefers to be gone this much. He said "NO"! He surprised me by saying that sometimes he gets jealous of the time that I get to spend with the kids & when he hears that we are doing things or going to the park, etc. He has always told me all these years that he is not the jealous type & never gets jealous. Then he told me that he never goes to this one particular gas station because this guy named Justin used to work there & my H knew that I liked him last summer. During that time last year when I would talk about Justin, he always said that he never gets jealous & then I find this out last night. He also said that he worries everyday that I am going to say that I've had enough & tell him to leave.I told him that I am trying to get over all this but that it is on my mind all the time.So, I think last night went really well. At least it's a start.
Well, I am gonna pat myself on the back for last night.You would have been proud of me! I got him to talk & I listened to him.He said that my feelings are totally justified & that he has alot of work to do.I thanked him for talking & told him that I hope we can make it thru this. He said that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. So, it's just up to me. Like I've told him before, I don't know if I can get past what he did.I guess time wil tell.
Sounds like you did make some progress. I'd like to ask a question though. Obviously I wasn't there for the conversation so I don't know what your husband's responses were. But did he really tell you anything different than he's been telling you? That he's sorry and wants to be with you? Did you talk about how the changes are going to be made? Because that's what needs to happen in order for things not to go back to the way they've been. If you did then good for you, that's a big step forward.
>>He said that my feelings are totally justified & that he has alot of work to do>>
That's true, but again how is he going to make that happen? Your feelings are justified with the affair but it's the other things you talk about him doing that concern me about your marriage. Please be sure he's not just telling you the things he knows you want to hear. At some point action has to be taken. Also at some point it stops being about the affair and it's about building a relationship that both of you have to work on. I'm not saying by any means that it's time for it not to be about the affair. Just that there are other things that need to be addressed at some point that have nothing to do with his affair. He has a lot of work to do, but you do too Barb. It will take both of you working together to get past what he did, not just you.
It does sound like you made some progress. Talking is always a good thing when both people are really listening to each other. Good for you Barb.
Thanks GT! Actually, he did say a few new things. He said that he sometimes feels jealous about the kids & I doing stuff & he has to miss out on it. See, I just figured that he was so busy working that he had no time to think about his family. Now I know that he does think about us & wish he could be with us.I also needed to hear that he was jealous of Justin. He's never been jealous before, that I know of, & it was nice to hear that he did feel that way.It's true that we didn't get any major details worked out but he did take the time to come home early & talk for awhile. He was too tired to work on details. The poor guy started to fall asleep a few times!! We do know what we have to work on soon(finances, checking into getting the house back),& in the future( lack of mutual friends,no time together, finding a regular job, etc). I think my problem is that I am so tired of the way things are now & I can't do anything about it. We really can't work on anything until he gets a regular job & we can have some time together.It's been 17 months & that's a long time to wait to try & put your life back together.The A would have been hard enough to deal with on it's own but when you throw in the fact that he's never aound & the financial mess, it's hard to be patient. I feel like I'm stuck in this mess & can't move forward or make any decisions until he gets a job & is home in the evenings.So, sorry if I do bitch on here alot.
Well that sounds like progress to me. He shared his feelings with you in way that let you know he does think about you when he's not there and he wishes he could be home more. And he did make an effort to come and talk. Good for him.
>>We do know what we have to work on soon(finances, checking into getting the house back),& in the future( lack of mutual friends,no time together, finding a regular job, etc)>>
All of that seems overwhelming when you list it together. So try to work on one thing at a time. Focus on what you can change at this point, even if it's something small.
>>It's been 17 months & that's a long time to wait to try & put your life back together.The A would have been hard enough to deal with on it's own but when you throw in the fact that he's never aound & the financial mess, it's hard to be patient>>
Yes, that is a long time to wait. And it is hard to work on problems when you aren't in the same house every day. You're only stuck if you choose to be. I'll bet if you work together you can figure out a solution to some of the things you listed above.
>>So, sorry I bitch>.
Barb, you'd be hard pressed to find any one of us who posts here who hasn't bitched about something at one time or another. Getting your frustrations out on this site is a good thing in my opinion. That way maybe you can work them out a little here before taking them to your spouse. It's helped me tremendously to run things by the folks on this forum. And it's helped me not to go full force at my husband at times. We're here for support and to lend an ear. We may whack you at times, but honestly, we do it in the name of helping because we care.
Thanks Carol! I like these" pretty good days"! Now I just need more of them & then I need to progress to "good days". Then i need to have less "BAD days".
Thanks GT! Yes, all the problems seem to be really big when piled on top of each other.All I know is that it was good to talk with him on Sunday. It was only about 15 minutes, but since I hardly ever see him it seemed longer. We were both at ease talking to each other too.It was nice to know that he does miss us. I have to admit that it was also nice to know that he actually does get a little jealous! We still have alot to work thru & I have to figure out if I can actually stay with him & deal with all of the A mess. There's about one week a month when I think I might be o.k. & the rest of the time I am sure I can't stay. Not great odds but all I can do is be honest with him. He knows that I'm not sure what I will do.He says he understands.It's just a shame that he had to put us in this spot.I wonder if he's learned anything from all of this. All I have seemed to learn so far is that you can't even trust your spouse.
