I'm coming up on a year past d-day, July 1st Things are better. Not great by any means, but better. We communicate better, H is totally remorseful, is here for me and willing gives me what I need when I need it. I am grateful for that and for his committment to me and our marriage (now). I love him still. I even understand to an extent the why and how of it all. So why do I still have so much hatred within me? Why do I still hate my H for what he did? Why do I still have so much hatred and want to get revenge on the 2 OW? I never told their husbands. There has been no contact whatsoever since I called them both as soon as I found out and threatened to tell if they ever contacted my husband again. That obviously did the trick so why would even risk opening that can of worms? I still want revenge. I've also thought about writing a letter to them letting them know just how harmful what they did was. I want them to know that what was fun and games for them was the the worst thing they could do to another person, how they have changed our lives forever. Basically, I want them to feel bad. I want them to take some ownership for their part in all of this.

I realize it will just invite them back into our lives again. I realize I'm giving them power over me. I realize that they should be a nonissue. Our marriage is our marriage and I should forget about them and move on. Work on moving forward w/my H, building a new and hopefully better marriage w/him. Okay. So I know everything I SHOULD do and SHOULDN"T do. But the fact is, they still do have power over me, my feelings anyway. They will be a part of our life forever because they were a part of my H's life for a time. He had experiences w/them he should never have had and will forever have memories of those experiences. And there's not a damn thing I can do about that. And that still hurts like hell.

My H is living with the pain he caused me. My H is remorseful. My pain is his pain now. But what about the OW? Where is their remorse, their pain? What did they learn from all this or will they go on and ruin other lives? And why do I still care so much?

Angela

As you know I'm on the other side of the affair but I'd still like to comment on some of your questions and see if maybe I can help a little.

You wrote>>I still want revenge>>

Angela, we're all human. I think the thought of revenge is our way of wanting to take back what we feel someone stole from us. As a young child I was molested by a "friend" of the family. After I became an adult I had thoughts of running into him and having my revenge. I had no idea what I'd do but I wanted to do something that would equal what he'd done to me. And then at some point I entertained thoughts of  going to see him and explaining how difficult it had been for me to deal with what he did. 

Ya know what though?  I'm not sure what I could have done. Or if getting him back would have the desired effect I wanted it to have for either of us. And I'm not sure if facing him would have hurt or helped. What if he laughed at me or simply didn't care what he'd done? Then how would I have felt? Most likely it would have made it worse. The fact is he took something away from me that I can't ever get back. And if I continue to let him take that away from me daily then at this point it's my fault, not his.

Angela, you want the OW to feel bad. But writing a letter or talking to her doesn't guarantee that. Depending on how warped her thinking is it might just make her feel better about herself to know you are still obsessing over what she did. Some people view that as attention which is what they crave.   

<< So I know everything I SHOULD do and SHOULDN"T do. But the fact is, they still do have power over me, my feelings anyway. They will be a part of our life forever because they were a part of my H's life for a time. He had experiences w/them he should never have had and will forever have memories of those experiences. And there's not a damn thing I can do about that. And that still hurts like hell>>

I once told my counselor I hated the fact that I'd let the OM into our lives and we'd have to live with that memory forever. She told me over the course of our lives many people come to "our table". Some we choose to let in and some we don't,  like the guy who molested me. They are there and we can't remove them. She told me the key was accepting it. But also learning I was the one with the power to stop acknowledging their existence at my table.  She taught me to push those thoughts aside when they came into my head. I used to mentally say " I choose to ignore that thought" and at some point that phrase just started automatically popping into my head right after the thoughts I wanted to be rid of. And the emotions that used to stir in me became smaller and smaller the more I chased those thoughts away.

>>My H is living with the pain he caused me. My H is remorseful. My pain is his pain now. But what about the OW? Where is their remorse, their pain? What did they learn from all this or will they go on and ruin other lives? And why do I still care so much?>>

We don't know what goes on in other people's lives. For all we know the OW does feel pain or remorse. She could be living in her own private hell. But would that really make any difference in your healing if you knew that? Would it really make what your husband did hurt any less? The other scenario is she really doesn't care. And she isn't ever going to. She'll just move on to the next person and nothing you say to her will matter. Would that make a difference in your healing?

Angela, I think you still care so much because as I said above, you're human. You want them to pay for their part in the destruction. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I personally don't know anyone who wouldn't feel the same way after being wronged. So maybe instead of worrying about why you feel that way just let yourself feel that way for now. 

I also knew that I shouldn't give the man who molested me power over me. But knowing that didn't stop me from doing it. I obsessed over it for a long time. I despised him. And my parents for not protecting me from it happening. For a time I needed that anger to protect me. But once it served it's purpose I had to let it go. Maybe for now you need this as part of your healing process? We all go at our own pace. And it sounds to me from what I've read on these forums that your pace is normal.    

I know feeling this way is maddening. You know you should let it go but can't. In my opinion talking to the OW would probably make you feel worse. Especially if she isn't remorseful. Nothing anyone said to me back in my affair days would have mattered. I wasn't going to change until I hit bottom and chose to change. I would have viewed anything that was said  as someone meddling in my business. And I most likely would have struck out in defense in an attempt to hurt them. I'd hate to see that happen with you if you talk to the OW. 

I don't know if this has helped. But time was such a big factor in our healing.  I always hated it when someone told me that. I wanted it to hurry up and get here. And you know what? One day we looked up and it was here.  You'll get there Angela, but in the meantime be patient and kind to yourself. 

GT

Angela

I can't say why you care so much about OW but what you feel is still very normal for only a year out. I felt the same after a year too. I think time tends to give you lots of perspective on your feelings toward the OP.

I think the biggie here is trying to let them go because it is only hurting you but that is easier said than done. Your right it does give them power over you. In some ways you may still blame them but in reality, and especially since there were two of them, he would have found someone else to meet what he thought were his needs at the time if it wasn't one of those OW's.

"I've also thought about writing a letter to them letting them know just how harmful what they did was...Basically, I want them to feel bad. I want them to take some ownership for their part in all of this."

What would likely happen if you did this is they would ignore what you said and you'd never hear back from them. Is that going to help you? I would imagine if they already felt enough guilt about it, they would have sent an apology already. I doubt it is going to happen now. They may already feel badly about it even though you may not believe that or they may never feel bad about it, regardless of what you say, because your H may have said some untrue stuff or some stuff that isn't flattering about you to them to keep them in an affair. A partners are usually lying to each other unless they are an innocent person who didn't know about the other person being married.

After a while, with a remorseful spouse, it comes down to deciding whether or not you can accept H the way he is, mistakes and all, and choose to be happy again. You will only be helping yourself if you do so. I still think your in an early stage though. I know even after I separated from my ex, I was still livid with OW, it took a good 2 years or so (after his A & past being separated) to completely let her go and it may have been easier for me because I was starting to completely let go of any feelings I had for my ex after we separated. I suppose if I had still had feelings for him, it may have taken longer but I do think I would have gotten there eventually. I think time made me realize it was my ex that did this to me, not OW.

I think if I saw her now I'd thank her for doing what she did.

Charlie

GT

I think it is funny that we both posted almost the same time but mostly said the same stuff in very different words.

Charlie

Charlie

I thought that too.  

GT

Angela,

I read your post with interest. I am a Ws as you all know, I was friends with the OM wife, we were neighbors. I wrote her a letter of apology recently. I did it not to make myself feel less guilty but to help her in her healing. I am not sure how she took it and I am not sure I ever will. I couldn't have written that letter a few months ago. I was too angry with myself and the OM and her! yes, even her! I am not sure why maybe jealousy..I don't know. All I know is that I wasn't ready to write her even though I knew it was the right thing to do.

The reason I wrote her now is after much time with an IC, reading everyones post here on this forum and listening to Bob, I realize the hell I put her through and will continue to for a very long time. I showed the letter to Bob and he thought it was a very good letter. He warned me that she might not take it like how I would want her to and that was ok with me because I know why I wrote her.

I understand your feelings of revenge and I don't blame you for feeling that way. Like GT and Charlie said is true..just accept those feelings and look at as a way of healing.
And they are right if they felt at all remorseful after a year they would have written YOU a letter of apology!!! Some people just don't get it and I think it would do you more harm to contact them now. Believe me if they are at all remorseful they ARE going through their own HELL.

It hasn't been quite a year for us. I felt the need to write to her since she and I were friends before the A. I hope it helped her even if it is in the smallest way, she didn't deserve any of this. I feel terrible I did this to her and our friendship. I know she hates me and I have accepted that fact. I don't blame her. I would hate me too!

I hope this helps you, Angela, because it certainly helped me....thanks for listening.

You know? I would think the same thing. I hated the idea that the OW probably thought she was better then me. I know the truth behind that. She is no way better then me. My head is screwed on straight and I try to think before I act. I know that I would never hurt anyone the way she helps to hurt people. However, I do have to say that it could have been any OW that could have slept with my H. I am more upset with my H because he was suppose to be commited to me. He made the choice to do what he did. He is the one who hurt me, not her. I blame him for his actions. So let the OW stay in the past. If you were to contact her for revenge, you will give her the satisfaction that she does have "power" over you. I don't know if this helped but it's just my two cents.
(((hugs)))
Jetta

....Two monks, one older, one younger, were traveling on foot to a distant town. As they traveled along, they came across a section of road that was full of mud and potholes from a recent rain. Standing at the edge of the road, unable to cross because of the mud, was a young and beautiful woman. Without saying a word, the older monk picked her up and carried her over the mud.

For the remainder of their journey, it was apparent that the younger monk was quite agitated. When they reached their destination, he turned and exploded at the older monk.

"How can you, a monk, even THINK about touching a young and beautiful woman like that? It is against our teachings and VERY dangerous!"

The older monk looked at him and replied, "I put her down at the other side. Why are you still carrying her?"....


Angela,

Be kind to yourself - you are 'just' a year out - it is hard
not to let OW(s) be rent free in our brains but in all reality she/they is a non-entity in your marriage. Hate your H it shows that you still care deeply for him - hate the behavior - but remember hate is not the opposite of love - indifference is.

Let the OWs go, Angela - they are in the past - the deed had been done and cannot be undone - learn and teach yourself "stop" behaviors when ever those thoughts come to the surface - communicate with our H, even ask him to help you put OWs away - tell him about what triggers you - look at the trigers as echoes of the past not the present, not the NOW.
Wishing you peace - you have the strength to find it!



And as you walk you make your path Kat

Hi,

I think that GT's post was so insightful. It is hard to try to make a new beginning with a man that you also harbor anger towards, and I think one way that gets done a lot of the time is to completely blame the OW. Like one of the above posts, said, that just happened to be the person(S?) that was handy.

I'm a big proponent of journaling and writing letters not to be mailed. One thing that could happen when you vent what you need to say to the OW in a letter, is you find that you CAN'T control her reactions. Even as you write it, you can see how she may respond in a way that isn't satisfying. Obviously she is coming from a whole different mindset than you to give herself permission to behave in that way, and will more than likely get defensive and make excuses that she is trying to believe herself. You could write a letter, seal it in an envelope, and stuff it in a drawer or entrust it to a friend or H that a discussion would ensue before hastily mailing it.

Having said that, I did not follow my own advice and wrote to two of the OW's my husband had dragged into our life. One pretended not to have received it and started stalking me. The other wrote a letter back to me. Let me preface this by saying that in both letters I didn't name call or sink to their level, I expressed what I felt was their rationalizations and how it affected our family, children included, and in the second case, how she was enabling him and interfering in him ever even growing up, and if she cared truly about him, she'd let him go as I had, but that I predicted she would just think about herself, because that is basically what it was all about anyway. Neither one of them wanted to grow up or improve, and they found each other to continue to live the way they had. The letter I received from the OW, I marked "Return to Sender" and sent it back unopened. I knew it would be just more BS and I didn't need to put myself through that.

We want people to have the same moral fiber that we do, to approach problems openly and healthily, but the reality is there is a world of people who don't, at least not in that particular stage of their lives. I think part of that is wanting to feel that we have a control in things that we really don't. If we could control the OW's of the world, maybe we would never have to go through that pain again. But, alas that isn't the way it goes.

I do really like GT's remarks about telling herself to ignore painful thoughts that are non-productive, and am encouraged that she said it eventually eases up the power it has over her. I have long felt I don't have good mental/emotional discipline, and it is always great to come here and get concrete tactics from people who know what it is like, and that work.

I'm so glad for you that your husband is trying to work through things with you. I wanted that more than anything I ever wanted in my life (with the possible exception that my children be healthy). It is a gift for you, and not that it isn't attached to some negatives, at least he is mature enough to face this thing down and give you both a chance. Good luck with it all.

Sue

Thanks everyone. It helped a lot to read everything you've said. It also helped to hear it from people on both sides of the fence so to speak. That was my reason for posting this on OPEN forum, I really wanted to hear from both sides. GT and Mrs. Bob I appreciate your honesty. It has to be so hard to come on here and open yourselves up like that knowing the pain BS are going through, yet you use your experiences and pain to help us understand a little better. Thank you.

Charlie, Jetta, Kat, and Sue. Thank you. You all, GT and Mrs. Bob too said pretty much the same thing in that I can't be sure how a letter from me would be received. They may already realize what they have done and are having to live with that. Or, they may not care and a letter from me will not make any differnce except to show them that they still have something over me. Sue, I've sort of done one thing you have suggested already. Shortly after d-day I wrote a letter to each of them on the computer. I never mailed them. Occasionally, when I am really angry or feeling badly I go back to those letters and revise them. It helps me say what I want to say to them and how I feel about them but without any repurcussions. I guess those letters will just have to stay here on the computer and go no further. I get what you are all saying in that sending them may not make me feel any better and could possibly even make me feel worse depending on what happened next.

Also, as a couple of you have said, it is really more about what my H did to me not what they did to me. Whatever they would say to me would probably make no difference in helping me heal. (Mrs. Bob, your situation is different in that the woman was a friend so hopefully your letter did help her in some way, whether she admits it to you or not.) With what was going on with my H at the time, it could have been any woman. Neither of them meant anything to him. When the first woman started getting serious about him (they were both also married mind you)and started getting upset because he never shared his feelings with her (because he didn't have any), he nicely dumped her and put his efforts into turning another friendship he had going on into a physical affair.

GT and Kat you talked about using "stop" tecniques when thoughts enter my head that I want to get rid of. I was particularly encouraged to hear, like Sue said, that they helped eventually to make the feelings those thoughts stirred up in you GT to lessen over time. I've always been kind of afraid to use techniques like that before. The reason is that I thought if I put those thoughts out of my head, then I'm not dealing with them, they will still be there, and eventually I will pay for that because they will never go away because I have ignored them. Don't know if that makes sense but it did to me. But given what you have said GT I will try that from now on.

Charlie and Kat you're right, the big thing is to try to let them go because it is only hurting me. You are also right of course that it is a very hard thing to do. What you and some of the others have said though is that these are still normal feelings at just a year out. That really helps to hear that because sometimes I feel like I should be handling different aspects of this better at this point. Even the time thing---a year---makes no sense to me sometimes. This "year" at times has felt like ten years, and at other times it feels like I just discovered the affairs, my feelings are so intense.

Thanks for all your support and for telling me what I need to hear. And for the hug Jetta. I try my best to listen with an open mind. And I will keep trying because I know I can't expect my husband to fix everything, I have to do the hard work too. And I will try to be good to myself too. My H and I have just begun to diet together (seems to be the thing to do on these boards recently) and that along with the excercise I'm getting now walking our new dog should be a step in the right direction on that front.

Love to you all.
Angela

Angela, learning the "stop" technique was the real beginning of my own healing. I got unstuck and dealt with the real stuff, not with my imagination or runaway fear. I recommend it highly when you find the same "loop" playing in your mind. It worked well for me.

Chris.

>>The reason is that I thought if I put those thoughts out of my head, then I'm not dealing with them, they will still be there, and eventually I will pay for that because they will never go away because I have ignored them. Don't know if that makes sense but it did to me>>

Angela, that makes perfect sense to me. I'm an over- analyzer and I used to think unless I beat something to death I wasn't dealing with it. The problem sometimes with an analyzer is we tend to go straight from dealing with things right into obsessing over them. That can drive a person crazy.  I'm not saying you are obsessing over the OW, just that you shouldn't get caught up in the trap of thinking that you have to hang on to or it will bite you in the butt later on. The things that tend to bite you in the butt later on are the things you push down when they happen and never think about at all.

It doesn't sound like you've ignored this. In fact it sounds like you've given it a great deal of careful thought and have decided that contacting the OW would not be a good idea. If that's indeed what you have decided then everytime the thought pops into your head just say something like......I'm not going to spend any more time thinking about that.  Or come up with your own phrase. Then go about your business.  Force another thought into your head.

But be careful though, our minds sometimes don't want to let us off that easy.  When I first tried the technique above I'd actually argue with myself  and try to justify why I needed to go down that road again. I kept thinking....... I'll just go over this one more time in case I missed something. And then before I'd realize it I was knee deep in those same old thoughts again. 

I also used the "STOP" technique and would say it out loud when I found myself revisiting a topic that was already dead and buried. If and when you are ready to let it go Angela try this. But only you will know when it's time

As for the OP acknowleding their part in the affair. The OM sent my husband a letter and apologized. He said he was in counseling and didn't expect forgiveness but he wanted to let us know he was sorry for the destruction he had caused. My husband read the letter and tore it up. To him the damage was done and it didn't matter if the OM was sorry or not. He viewed the letter as one more invasion of our relationship. So I'm not sure talking to the OW (even if they did express remorse) would make you feel any better.

My counselor was big into writing people letters that were never sent. Sometimes just saying what you feel helps a lot. I had a burning session one day and watched a few letters go up in smoke. Suprisingly that was very cleansing. 

I just realized that I must sound like a real loon.  I argue with myself and burn letters to people who never even knew I wrote them.  LOL

GT

And, GT, you talk to yourself!

I used the STOP technique, too. Images would hit me at the damndest times - quiet times, usually. When I was in the shower, or driving, or trying to sleep, I would get very vivid images out of nowhere. I said, "STOP!" (sometimes several times) out loud and forced myself to think of other things: goofy things like every phone number I had, every address, my best friends in grade school, my shoes, totally mindless stuff. Then, my mind would usually wander onto other things.

There were MAAAAANY things that I would erase from my mind if I could. But, there are a handful I wouldn't trade for anything - having my friends and family rally around me, finding the strength to move past it, and as a result, becoming a stronger person. I have 2 journals FILLED with horrible, awful, spiteful things that I thought about the OW during that time. Maybe I'm sick, but I go back and read from time to time just to remind myself how much self-control I have! I didn't act on any of them. I always wanted the OW to know I had more class than that. I will always have that.

I wish you peace, Angela. You made it the first year, you can do this!


Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

GT,

This is one of those cases where people read a letter and say, "I could have written that!" I too over-analyze things to death, to the point of obsession.

<<<But be careful though, our minds sometimes don't want to let us off that easy. When I first tried the technique above I'd actually argue with myself and try to justify why I needed to go down that road again. I kept thinking....... I'll just go over this one more time in case I missed something. And then before I'd realize it I was knee deep in those same old thoughts again>>>

I laughed when I read that because I've also argued with myself about why I needed to go over something just one more time. You've company in the "loon" department.

Monica, what you said was very helpful about when you tell yourself "Stop" you then force yourself to think of something else. I've tried to say "Stop" then just go on about my business. It's not always very effective where "forcing" myself to think of other things seems as though it would work much better. You're probably thinking, "DUH", but I have to say I haven't been too clear-headed when it came to any of this A stuff. As you are well aware, it can take a strong, rational, somewhat intelligent (I like to think) person and turn them into a blubbering, irrational idiot at times. Thanks for the help ladies.

Angela

<As you are well aware, it can take a strong, rational, somewhat intelligent (I like to think) person and turn them into a blubbering, irrational idiot at times. Thanks for the help ladies.>
You're completely right. You'll notice I said 'my mind would wander on to other things'. I was just always excited that my mind wandered BACK from some of the places it wandered to!



Monica

This is your life. Are you who you want to be? ~ Switchfoot

omigod... that was like reading my own words!! I did write that letter (e-mail) and she responded, apologized, and gave me some insight into where her head was. I think I got lucky in that respect... she was very forth-coming with details, all of which H confirmed, and it made me feel a little more powerful. I hope you find a way to see your way out of the hatred. Your thoughts were very mirrored to my own...
Keri

Keri,

Thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone in this craziness I'm feeling. I think I can deal better with the anger and hurt and even at times the hatred I feel for what my husband has done because I can tell him how I am feeling. He responds and we talk about it and I know he loves me and always did. I can even (somewhat) understand with what he was dealing with in his life at the time how it happened. Doesn't make it right but it helps me understand a little. But with the OW there's no way to let out all those feelings and the hatred I harbor for them except to write it down or obsess about it. I'm happy for you that when you did send your e-mail it worked for you. Tell me, do you have less hatred and animosity towards her now? Just wondering.

Angela

Someone help me SEE a few years back (thanks babeeeee....

You are letting OW live rent free in your mind ....

Live well is the best revenge.... indiference, not hate.. Angela. Just remember who is next to you when you go to sleep and who is next to you when you wake up. Stay in the NOW, Angela.

And as you walk you make your path Kat

<<<Someone help me SEE a few years back (thanks babeeeee....>>

Did Cory have some magic words of wisdom? If so, I could use some of those Cory!

KAT,

In my head I know everything you say is true. My heart just doesn't want to hear it. I'm trying to fight it but I'm not succeeding like I should.

I've been spared the 2X4 in the year that I have been here. I'm about ready to hit myself with it! lol.

Angela

Angela, you and H are going to make it. I'm excited for you both. You are going thru the normal stages of a "RECOVERING" couple. It's not easy but just try to relax, feel your way thru it, learn, be gentle with yourself, get stronger. That last sentence was for both of you.

H2C,

I could give you a big hug and kiss (with M's permission of course!). THANKS.

Angela

Angela-

I felt I needed to at least put some sort of real person with the faceless woman that had dared to enter MY world... she admitted to many, many evil doings, which I am sure are a natural part of being the "OW." I don't know if her apologizing or whatever gave me any peace with the situation, but I can say (with an evil grin) that telling her what I thought of her and where she could go, did feel a little good. She also got to know what part of the massive damage that had been done to my life, and my children's, that she had been a part of. I am hoping she takes this knowledge and thinks about it the next time she may decide to get involved with a married man. Probably not.
Keri

Keri,

<<<I don't know if her apologizing or whatever gave me any peace with the situation, but I can say (with an evil grin) that telling her what I thought of her and where she could go, did feel a little good.>>>

I never did that and I wish now that I had done it at the time I found out. I think it might have given me a little "closure" to all of this.

Angela

Angela~

I am not sure it actually gave me closure with her... she lives not 2 minutes from us and shops at our neighborhood grocery store. Everytime I pull into the lot, I hope to see her car, I would love a face to face conversation. It is some wierd, sick notion I have that it will finally give me real closure with her. I feel like I need to see her to see "what" the H saw in her..
Keri

Keri,

<<<Everytime I pull into the lot, I hope to see her car, I would love a face to face conversation. It is some wierd, sick notion I have that it will finally give me real closure with her. I feel like I need to see her to see "what" the H saw in her..>>>

I understand that feeling completely. I have seen pictures of the 2 OW but never had a conversation w/them. However, I did do something a week or so ago that did help me some. The second one lives the closest (about 15 minutes away) but I have never run into her. Anyway, she was in charge of a day camp that was being held on the grounds of the school that I teach at. It really bugged me. I felt like she was now trespassing on my territory. (As if she hadn't done enough trespassing on my H!) Anyway, I went over there in my husband's car since my air-conditioner died. Camp had not begun yet, they were still getting things ready, but people were starting to arrive. There were several cars in the lot already but there was an open space in the first row right at the edge of the grass and about 15 yards from where they were working. When I spotted her I just sat in the car and watched. At one point she stopped and looked out into the lot at the cars and people that were coming. Then she spotted my husband's car and I could see the recognition on her face. Then she saw me. She stood there and stared at me and I just stared back for about 20 seconds, then she turned and walked away and went on with her business. It was a small thing but it helped a little. It was my way of saying to her that I am a "real" person with real feelings. What she did was not done in a vacuum. It wasn't closure, but it helped.

Angela

P.S...H2C, be proud of me, I didn't make a scene!

Proud of you------absolutely. We talked about that upcoming event on the phone and I'm glad that you went to see her. That alone defines a boundary. It says that you are a real person that was violated and now you are not just part of OW's imagination that can so easily be forgotten or discarded. She knows that you exist in person. Wonder how her day went after that.

I also "had" to do a few quirkie kinds of things in order for me to be able to move forward. I forced myself to go to some of their "meeting" places. It helped reduce my imagination into reality. Of course it raised other questions about details. LOL

Maybe now you can let the revenge fantasies fade. This may indeed be a big step. OWs only have power over your thoughts if you let them. Maybe you need to go take a look at the other OW.

<<<Maybe now you can let the revenge fantasies fade. This may indeed be a big step.>>>

I think so too. I think this may have been a big help in that regard.

<<<Maybe you need to go take a look at the other OW.>>>

She lives MUCH farther away and I don't "do" expressways! I've developed a phobia about driving them since living in the Chicago metro area. Plus, I don't know of anyplace she would be other than her home and I don't want to go there. So, this one may remain unresolved.

Angela

My wife directed me to this post and stated "I'm surprised you didnt post to this one".  I think she knows where I stand on this subject.

Ok, this is a pretty long post and I'm at work so reading everyones reply isnt real practical right now, so i hope I'm not shooting from the hip.  But, I would like to give my 2 cents.

When i found excess phone calls between my wife and the OM, we went to MC, I wanted to inform the OM's wife.  My wife said "oh no, dont tell her, it will ruin their already unstable marriage  - why do that to them?"  The MC said "you would be doing it out of spite and you need to concentrate on YOUR marraige right now".  I totally disagreed, but I went against my best judgement and honored the wishes of my wife the MC.  That was my BIGGEST mistake ever.  Now that everything is out in the open, we look back and talk about it.  My wife said if I would have gone to his wife 8 months ago like I wanted to, the whole affair would have ended right then and there.  That means there would have been one or two sexual episodes instead of 50 to 100.  And about 7 less months of intimacy of any kind, none of the trips would have happened either.

My arguement in marriage counseling was this:  What about the Golden Rule ??? (do to others as you would have done to you).  I would have wanted her to tell me if she knew about the affair.

That said, TELL THEIR SPOUSES!!!  It is not revenge it is respect and it is the right thing to do.  If everyone always "did the right thing" then none of us would be here.  Live by the Golden Rule and you cannot go wrong.

I know I relate this a lot to my personal situation but I tell you my story just as an example as to why it's right to "do the right thing", your situation is obviously a bit different and your reasons for telling them seem a bit different as well since it is after the fact.  But if you were them, you would want to know.  You can't go wrong when you do what is right.

Brian

Brian,

Thank you for your input. You are right that I would so want to know if the tables were reversed. So what stops me from telling them? FEAR!

For one, I am afraid of bringing them back into our lives and possibly undoing some of the progress we have made.

I am also afraid that if I do this my kids may somehow find out. Although they are older, one is 26 and married, and the other will be 21 next week, neither of them knows. We've been able to keep it from them because the older one does not live here and the younger one is away at college during the schoolyear and away working at camp during the summers.

What I fear the most though is for the safety of my family. I know how enraged I was when I first found out about the affairs, and I know how angry I still get more than a year later. If I told them about the A and they experience that kind of rage God only knows what they may do. I could be putting not only my husband's but the rest of family's safety at risk. Even though the kids are not here all the time, the older one does visit and the younger one is home for holidays, before and after the schoolyear and camp. I couldn't live with myself if any harm came to them because of my actions. I would never feel safe again.

I remind myself often of these reasons when I am tempted to tell.

Angela

Angela,

I completely respect your view on this and you would know better than anyone.  I base my suggection soley on my own experience, and, as you can tell by my experience, it was the right thing to do for me.

I understand your fear as well, but sometimes we create a lot of what-ifs the that never come to fruition, and in a situation like this threats do come your way when you try to upset the apple cart, I know  our OM is a cop and his boss has had to give him a cease and desist order and transfer because of recent threats.

Again, you need to handle it the way YOU think you should since your the one intimatly involved.

The Golden Rule has never failed me in the past though.

I know, I know, I'm wavering back and forth like a dogs tail.  I would love to be able to help you find a creative way to let them know, I will be pondering it.  Maybe even an anonomous call from someone unrelated to the situation, maybe without your husbands name. It's been a year, maybe they have had other affairs since then or even before then.  That is not unlikely.  You may be able to figure out a way to have them know without them knowing it was you -or- even your husband.  I hope I'm not thinking too deep into this but an affair takes deep, deep thought sometimes.

Brian

Angela, I'm proud of you.  Although I must admit, I thought you were going to say you rammed into her car like Kathy Bates did in the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes."   LOL

GT

Brian,

I don't think it would really matter who spilled the beans or how they found out. If they found out anonomously I'm sure they would manage to talk their spouse into divulging who the A was with. Then I would still be in the position of worrying how they would react. I think I just feel more comfortable following the old adage, "Let sleeping dogs lie."

GT,

Hmmm, I like your idea. It's right up there with all the other little scenarios I fantasized about doing. (I'm not proud of the dark side I have discovered within myself.) However, in the end, I was quite controlled. Not quite as satisfying but truer to who I am (or at least who I was, before the A.) Just because they acted in shameful ways doesn't mean I have to follow suit. I can still hold my head high.

Angela

Angela, you are already worrying about it. Surely, like most affairs, you understand that they will find out eventually. You just won't know when. And you also know that even if it is 5 years from now it will be like it was yesterday to the BSs. Just like it was for you. It won't matter to them that it was years and years ago.

H2C,

So are you saying then that I should be the one to say something now? That at least then I would be more prepared and know WHEN to expect something from them?

I guess I'm just hoping that because it has been over a year now that if they haven't found out yet, they probably won't. Or at least it is less likely. Am I wrong here guys?

Angela

Angela

Even though I did phone the OW's H back when it all happened, and I was glad I did, I would never advise someone else to do so. You have to make that choice on your own.

Look at the things that could happen and decide for yourself. Here are a few possibilities.

The OW's H/H's could get pissed and physically harm your H or your home/family. You hear about situations all the time where cheating spouses and their lovers are shot or run over by vehicles.

You could get some satisfaction out of telling. I know that wasn't the main reason I called OW's H though as I didn't even have time to ponder it. Mostly what I thought at the moment was that he had a right to know. I called him several hours after I caught them after doing some detective work and making a few calls to figure out who she was. As Brain mentioned, it also helps the OW's/OM's spouse keep them accountable (in my case that held very true as he and I spoke about a month later after I informed him and he was keeping a good eye on her.)

You could find out that these husbands already know and they (the OW's) could feel harrassed by you. Ridiculous, I know but you never know.

I'm sure there are more but Angela, this is a very personal decision. I have to admit that after I called the OW's H, I did fear for my ex's life. Although I hated him at the time, I didn't want anything bad to happen to him, even though later on I had wished him to get into a car accident. LOL The good part was that I also threw my H out and I told OW's H that fact so coming to our house wouldn't have helped him.

Charlie

Angela, I would never advise you to tell or not. Like Charlie says, it is a very personal situation that only you and your H know all the specifics.

Like Charlie, I contacted OM's W the 3rd day. I did it, like Brian, to make sure the affair was over and would not continue. And the day before I had physically gone after OM at his work. So I'm sure I scared the hell out of both of them because I wasn't in my right mind at the time. Remember our rage discussions?LOL

The only reason that I mentioned what I did in the other post is to make you aware that it will be like the affair happened "yesterday" to the BSs no matter when they find out. So picture yourself and H in a nursing home some day when all hell breaks loose. There will be cards and bingo chips flying all over the place. ROTFLMAO Sick humor, I know.

H2C,

<<<...it will be like the affair happened "yesterday" to the BSs no matter when they find out. So picture yourself and H in a nursing home some day when all hell breaks loose. There will be cards and bingo chips flying all over the place. ROTFLMAO>>>

Thanks for the laugh! I needed that this morning. It was a rough night. The power went out (along w/the air conditioning of course), H had to go to work, no TV or light to read by, so I was left with no distractions from my thoughts which kept going to places I would have been better off not revisiting. Uggh!

Angela

One thing that I haven't heard people mention for a possible reaction was my situation. I was the wife that got contacted by an irate husband. My husband was with his wife and he called my house several times, even telling my 14 year old daughter. I was afraid for my family, and the outcome was I divorced my husband, and now they are married. So all he accomplished was to get his wife's lover free to marry her.

Sue

Sue,

Sounds awful. However, do you really think that the angry phone call by the husband caused them to marry? Their affair was already underway, he reacted rightly or wrongly---and disclosed what already was.

What would have been a better scenario? I agree the disclosure to a minor was horrible, but would you rather have not known?

Sue

Yes, that is unfortunate but maybe that irate H did you a favor too? Only you can answer that. Imagine going through many D-days instead. Just a thought.

Charlie

I did go through many d-days for about 20 years, actually. The point I was making was that I think the other husband's motive was for me to know (I already did) and to stop them from seeing each other. He wanted to control their decisions, they did what they wanted, anyway. He thought if I knew, I could "make my husband behave" and his wife would return to him. It wasn't what they wanted to do, they fed each other with their rationales.

"they fed each other with their rationales"

Sue,

Thats exactly what happened to my wife and the OM in their A.  Squeakers told me that, she told me how much he would make it all sound ok.  I'm sure she did the same at times, it was not at all one sided.  I think any WS would try to make it sound at least the slightest bit one sided to their BS - the BIG problem with that, its more lying, thats the last thing a BS needs if there is reconciliation.  When you look at the big picture they both contributed equally to the affair, thats obvious when it has gone on for so long. 

They feed each other whatever was needed to keep the affair alive.  They feed each other comfort, sex, excitement, fun, etc.  That is the only reason they both keep returning to each other day after day, week after week, month after month.

 

Brian

Sue

I understand exactly what you are saying. Still finding out whether or not the OW/OM and your spouse want to be together permanantly very quickly is better than one spouse knowing about the cheating and them trying to make it work because the OM/OW's spouse hasn't figured it out yet and are afraid to tell themselves. What I'm saying is I believe knowing either way, whether or not your spouse will leave you soon or not is better than one spouse not knowing and them dragging their spouse through the pits of hell for a while.

I believe the more everyone knows, the sooner it can all be said and done with. If they are planning to be together in the long run, I'd doubt anything someone does (even telling the other spouse about the cheating) will keep them there. I think it would just progress what would happen anyway much more quickly. I could be wrong. JMHO.

Charlie

Sue,

My situation was similar to yours - the husband had caught his wife and my ex in bed together. He told him that day he had two weeks to call me. Two weeks later, I get a strange phone call asking for my ex. My ex went outside to take the call, came back in and lied. He said that the H was psycho and that just because my ex had talked to his W, that he assumed they were sleeping together. Two hours later, the truth came out. Her H was absolutely, certifiably NUTS (he's been arrested no less than 3 times for aggravated battery, two of those had some kind of rape charges, also). He stalked us - drove by our house and called after I'd gone to work telling my ex he'd seen me drive to work, commenting on our new siding, and finishing up with conversation by telling him he had a shotgun in the truck. He called RELENTLESSLY, thinking that I could somehow control my cheating ex. Her H even took a temporary job at the factory they worked out to keep an eye on them. I was afraid to leave the house! I was afraid to answer the phone. He called me all hours of the night when my ex and his W were at work (they worked 3rd shift). So, add to the constant drama and stress by me not getting more than 2 hours of uninterrupted sleep... I was a flippin' mess.

On one hand, I don't think my ex would have ever told me. On the other, I was FURIOUS that my ex had basically invited the W and her crazy H into our lives. This went on for 7 months. It was hellish. I finally had to tell him that if he didn't stop calling, I was going to call the law. The very last time I talked to him, he told me that his divorce had gone through that day, that my ex and his W were talking again, and his W told him that she was going to be with my ex. I woke my ex up and told him to be out by the time I got home from work. My ex quit his job that day and never contacted her again.

My ex didn't marry THAT one, he married the one he cheated with 2 years later. In hindsight, I wouldn't go through that again for all the money in the world, I would have kicked out my ex, changed my number, and gotten an order of protection against him.

Monica

My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.

Not to beat a dead horse ... I just feel like I'm not getting my main point across. The person calling me scared me. He did not accomplish his goal of changing the outcome. I think you just have to consider how the other betrayed spouse may view you, and you can't know what they do know. They may see you as a person harrassing them, bringing "scum" into their family. You can put yourself into a risky situation because unless you already know them, you can't predict how they will respond, SO BE CAREFUL. And be prepared for not getting the response you want. That's what I'm trying to get across.

Would it changed anything knowing or not, people in Al-Anon background told me over and over, when it is time for me to know, I will. Let go of thinking you are going to control anything in someone else. I guess ultimately it was true. It is something that is really difficult to let go of "Let go and let God".

Sue

Sue,

In my case my wanting to tell the OW's husbands has nothing to do with trying to stop what is going on. It's been over for more than a year now. My reasons are 1. Because I would want to know so I figure they would too.
2. And a very honest but not very nice reason, revenge on OW.
But I don't tell because like you said, I have no way to know how they will react and I don't want to see any more harm come to my family. The A's have already caused enough harm.

You're right that the best thing to do is to let it go. I'm trying to find a way to do that.

Angela