Hi All....I have been patient with myself, patient with my life, kind to myself...done everything that I thought I needed to do, but here I sit, confiding in people I don't even know...bawling. For those of you who are on the other side...that is, past the divorce, feeling at peace....HOW DID YOU DO IT? I still pine for him on a daily basis. Continue to be obsessed with his life with her...the life I thought was mine with him. Him doing things with her that I am sure he enjoys and would not do with me. I obsess where they will go on vacation....how they spend their time. When does this part of the process cease? This is my greatest struggle...getting beyond the obsessing....where do they go at night? What do they do at the end of the evening? I honestly believe, in my heart of hearts that this man is going to come back. I want to unbelieve that....I want that thought out of my head. I want to awaken in the morning, thankful for what I have and the health of my friends and children. I struggle with nothing more than this. I love my job, have a great job, have wonderfully supportive friends, yet I am MISERABLE....why? What is Sage not doing? I go out (not on dates) and do things with friends, I walk my puppy, I fix the celebratory Sunday meal for my children and whoever else shows up....when is this going to stop? How does one move beyond this? I realize that the timing is so different for everyone....but what "games" am I not able to play withmyself to get beyond this? It is Monday and I am already dreading Thursday because that is the day he takes off and begins his weekend with her and her children. What is WRONG WITH ME? I am back in therapy to try to figure out what is wrong with me that I can't get past this. I want to awaken in the morning and feel the same "energy" that I had when he was in my life. I miss that feeling, that energy that gave me the "wanting" to carry on in my life. I have read every book and practiced every suggestion.....
Please let me know what you have done to be able to say that this event in my life happened for this reason.....did this happen for a reason? Am I supposed to be a better person for this? I have learned compassion, patience, and too much pining. The pain continues to be excrutiating (sp) when does the pain leave the body? I still feel so traumatized and simply "deflated".....I want to be energized. I realize that I have to do this for myself, but I don't know how to do it?????
Kind people.....let my in on your secrets.
[This is my 2nd marriage - and we are still together.]
It would appear to me you are ruminating BIG time - it is when the brain is literally stuck in the same loop playing over and over again. I would suggest you explore medications and also look into PTSD. If you were to be diagnosed on the PTSD continuum look into EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing).
I am sorry that you are struggling so. I don't know too much about your story, so I'll respond just to what's in this thread.
How long have you been separated/divorced? How long since D-Day? It's good that you are back in therapy. What does your therapist say? From what you mention, particularly <<The pain continues to be excrutiating (sp) when does the pain leave the body?>> and the lack of energy you are experiencing, my hunch is that you may be clinically depressed. Have you discussed this and options to get out of it with your doctor or therapist?
<<Please let me know what you have done to be able to say that this event in my life happened for this reason.....did this happen for a reason?>> Well, for me, the reason my H was unfaithful because he wanted to be -- he sought it out. And he was unrepentant because he didn't want to be repentant. Then my reason for making him leave our home was because that's what I wanted to do. (He didn't want to leave, not because of his commitment to me, but because moving was too much trouble, and too expensive.) These are the reasons in my story.
<<I want to awaken in the morning and feel the same "energy" that I had when he was in my life.>> Aside from possibly dealing with any depression, this energy will come, in time, when you find yourself again -- who you are without him and the plans you want for your life now. For me, I posted to these forums a lot. It is SO good to spill out how I am actually doing and have feedback. It is so much better than pretending that everything is fine, when it's not. I have fibromyaliga, so I can relate to your statements about pain and lack of energy. That's me all over.
<<did this happen for a reason?>> Sage, infidelity is a choice. The reason is he wanted to. Now what do you want to do? This part is your choice. Not just what to you want to do in response to his betrayal, but what do you want to do your life in general.
We often don't get decide what will happen in our life, but we always can choose our response to what does happen.
Married 34 years....I will be divorced 2 years next month...2.5 years since D-day....he has been involved with her for 3 years...but I didn't know it. I was living my life that I thought I had. I AM doing what I want with my life....livng it, but in pain. Everyone responds with "your life is your now, do what you choose"....I wanted to retire with my H and grow old with him. That is not longer an option, I see that, but I don't think I want to change a great deal of what I am doing now. I have accomplished a great deal with my life...I have a PhD...so school is nothing I want to pursue. I have numerous hobbies...running, biking, hiking, knitting...so there is nothting there. I have written grants and direct a very community-based project in my town that I conceptualized, wrote the grant for, and am currently helping (this is ironic) highly conflictual divorcing/separating families get through their conflict...my divorce was not conflictual..we don't fight, never did fight, didn't have a need to "get back" at one another...etc, so that part of my job is worthwhile in the sense that I KNOW that retaliation is not always necessary...
Anyway, I am on meds...nothing seems to work....I continue to cry and be sad. Clinical depression...perhaps....I guess so. Meds to aleviate that...do I want it? Should I not be experiencing this transition to the hilt? I am a healhty person...in good health that it. I am almost 57 years old....on the down side of my life....I have really accomplished all that I wanted to do. My list of "ten things I want to do before I die"...did one last Fall...spent a month on the coast of Maine...alone, on an island in a cottage right on the ocean....so, its not that I haven't been trying. I honestly have. It just hasn't brought me the relief that I thought I could get. I have two highly motivated, healhty boys....both are out of the home pursing degrees, getting on with their lives, which they obviously should be. It's not that I don't have anything to live for....obviously I do. It's just that I wanted to share this with someone. HIM. I want to "fill" the void that has been left with me since he left. I want to do that for myself....I want that energy to come from ME. I don't know how to access it, nor do I know what it is. Get it? There was an "aura" that was there when he was in my life...it provided me energy, a "settled feeling" in my life that is not longer there. Perhaps it was love, I don't know. Perhaps it was security, I don't know. It was a "safety" net that is no longer there. Maybe it was attachment..I don't know. I need to think in terms of metaphors in order to "justify" my feelings. I feel like the boy in "Old Yeller"....the dog was sick, there was nothing he could do....he had to "put him down".....I simply can't pull the trigger. I am having a hard time pulling the trigger....once the trigger is pulled, I know I will experience a sense of relief and "freedom", but I can't pull the trigger.
For what that is worth......tell me what comes up for you as you read this. I have not taken advantage of this site as I should have. But, I need it now. I need support and wisdom from those of you who were able to pull the trigger.
I wrote you a big long post, only to see it go "poof." This was all that remained of it, but perhaps that's as it should be. Posting here a lot has helped me. I hope it helps you, too. ~ Jean
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
One thing that got erased -- I wanted to comment on your metaphor of "pulling the trigger." That's a pretty violent metaphor, and a metaphor of something sudden, too. Perhaps you could think of a different way to see the gradual process of letting go -- open arms, exhaling, waves on a beach....?
Anyway, I am on meds...nothing seems to work....I continue to cry and be sad. Clinical depression...perhaps....I guess so. Meds to aleviate that...do I want it? Should I not be experiencing this transition to the hilt? I am a healhty person...in good health that it. I am almost 57 years old....on the down side of my life....
Sage, read and read again your own words. Do you in the core of your being, do you really want to get to the other side? or now you have made your pain a familiar feeling and are not willing to relinguish it - what would happened if you were pain free?
Sage, you are an accomplished person and of means. I wouldn't expect hobbies, etc to fill your void. Start dating or at least start obsessing about finding Mr. Quite All Right. This may seem crazy at this point because I suspect (you probably know it too) that you are not ready. But think of the distraction that it would provide in your life. Even if the guy wasn't quite the one, if just for a while he would jolt those butterflies loose in your stomach. Shake things up a bit. Know what I mean? Put yourself in a position where you don't necessarily have all the control. Think of the intrigue, the danger.
Sage I am sorry to see you still suffering and struggling with this.
First I guess the biggest thing for me was the realization HE WAS NEVER COMING BACK. Accept that he doesn't love you anymore and doesn't want to be part of your life. Sure it hurts, but it is the way it is! I talked to myself on a daily basis and everytime I would pine away or cry I would stiffly tell myself "Kim, stop this.......he isn't coming back and you need to move on with your life".
Second, realize he isn't the man you married and he will never be that man again...........for you anyway. He is a liar, a cheat and a user. Logically, do you really want a man like that in your life?
You make a choice Sage, you really do. You can choose to be bitter or you can choose to be better. YOU need to work on you. Go out and have fun, smile and laugh again. Don't sit at home waiting by the phone for it to ring. Eliminate everything in your life that is connected to him. Take down (and throw away) family pictures, wedding pictures, etc. Get rid of cards he gave you and any special momentos you have of your time together. If you can't throw them in the trash just put them away in a box and give them to your son to hang onto for a while until you can deal better with them.
A trick I used that worked great for a long time was pretending he had died. I would refer to him in the past tense and grieve for the man he used to be.
Do things for you! You have money and time.......go on a cruise, go on a vacation, go sailing with friends, go to the beach, travel the world.............anything to keep you occupied and having fun.
What hobbies do you enjoy? What do you like to do? Could you start some sort of a business that would take up huge amounts of time.
I personally found that the more time I had, the worse the pining got.......I had time to think then. Don't give yourself time to think.
I was on celexa for about 2 years. It worked well at controlling my depression. If the meds you are on aren't working, you need to talk to your psychiatrist or doctor and find something else.
You have to believe in YOU Sage. Believe that you can heal and you can be better. Make that a goal and strive towards it.
Hi Alll.....first of all, the metaphor of the "pulling the trigger" is not meant to be a violent act....a kind act...that is how I interpreted the meaning for me. To have had someone in your life and such a meaningful relationship (dog & boy; Sage & John) and now that person is no longer the same....I need to put myself out of the relationship...by putting him out of it...I didn't mean it as a violent, aggressive act....a kind act, mostly for ME....
I appreciate the input and ideas....I am the "happiest" when I am busy. I do need to add more structure to my day. I don't work much in the summer (don't have summer classes to teach)...so I do have a lot of time on my hand. I am enrolled in "puppy training school" that takes up Monday nights. I continue to work hard in my yard...outside and busy. I have gotten over the phone ringing stuff....I went to a very high mountain where I live and threw my cell phone off of it....got a new phone with a diffrent number..he doesn't know that...at least the number. So, the phone thing is a moot point. I do say to myself, "this is his loss, not mine"....I know, intellectually, that he is not coming back....it just hasn't registered "emotionally". I am taking a trip...to the Baja pennisula for a week with a friend. H2..I liked your suggestions about a "fantasy" person. I just can't think of anyone, except George Clooney...I am old enough to be his mother, but I need to tape his picture on my refrig and get "into" that. You are right, the fantasizing is something I do with him in mind....I need to picture someone else...it will take my mind off of it.
Thinking he was dead....I will certainly try it. I have not entertained that approach as yet.
I want each of you to know how good I felt after posting my thoughts. I guess I need to do more of this....I appreciate your feedback and thoughts on this. Take care and each of you have a wonderful day. Mine, so far has been great. It is beautiful and sunny here in TN tody, a cool breezea nd I had lunch with a dear frirend. I am going to do the "puppy" training homework so my poor puppy doesn't get squired with water during classs tonight. The trainer has a "nazi" orientation...she squirts the puppies with water that don't do their tricks/obey. I want to save my poor dog from that.
Thank you again and again.
I have been D for almost two years now (wow, time flies). I found this site when I was feeling much like you are. I thought I would be in a better place after a year, I had thought I would get on with my life faster, I thought the pain would ease just a little.
I'm doing better now and here are some of the things that helped me.
1. I posted on this site and Tex hit me hard with some facts I needed to hear. He said "he is with her, he wants to be with her, not you" "if he wanted to be with you, he would be" "thats all you need to know about him". Like I said, it was hard to except this, but it was the truth. Him coming back shouldn't be his choice. You need to convince yourself that even if he wanted to come back - YOU wouldn't take him...
2. This one has helped me the most so far.. There are somethings that I like to do that my ex didn't like, so I stopped doing them while I was married. You need to find those things and do them as much as possible (One example is I like to go camping, ex didn't - I have gone camping 3 times this summer). Then tell yourself how you wouldn't have been able to do that if you were still married.
3. Keep busy. Read books and learn to enjoy being by your self. There is a plus side to not having to think about someone else all the time. Eat what you want to eat for dinner at the time you want to eat it. If you feel like going out, go out. I love not having to check with a H before I buy something or commit to going somewhere.
Sage, it is a slow process and I still have bad days but they are getting few and far between now. You will get there.... You have to learn to make yourself stop thinking about him. As soon as he enters your mind you can make yourself stop.... it's hard to read a book and think about ex... do what ever you have to do to stop yourself.
He can't fill that hole you have (I know he did before, but he & you have changed), only you can make you whole again!
Hi Sage! Poor puppy(hee!). My 7 month old & I are supposed to start beginning dog obidience class on Friday. I have to go get all his shots first because I don't have records from the previous owner. Anyway, I am looking forward to 10 weeks of classes with him.I just hope that when I walk into PetsMart with him that people in the class don't freak out because he's a pitbull! Luckly the trainers says that she owns one.He is really sweet but has lost all manners since my kids spoiled him,especially my 19 yr.old! Yesterday my kids caught the big lug of a dog sleeping on the diningroom table.Ugh! It was kinda funny though! Don't know why he decided to do that! Well, enjoy your puppy!!!
A dose of encouragement...that is what I needed. I always have a "soothing" feeling come over me when I read that "it will get better"
NOOOOOOO....I don't want the pain...the feeling in the gut...if I were pain free...I would feel "free"....not "tied" to this. BUT, as I type this, I am realizing that I am in charge of my thoughts and my body and its feelings. Perhaps I just need to practice feeling "pain free"...at first I was somewhat "insulted" by the comment....BUT, I have never asked myself that question. I certainly do not enjoy the "hole; tightness in my throat", etc.Hum....I am going to have to think about this. I am a very busy person and the pain slows me down,,,,that I know for sure. Threa re days that I have to turn around and go back home to stop the crying before I go to the office.....I will cognitate this in light of when the "pain" arises. I do know that I am a bit better with the feelings..emotions. On beautiful days I would be sad becasue he was not here...now I can look at and appreciate the days...even get a warm feeling from them. Thanks all.
Hi again Sage! Thought you might get a chuckle out of Rex getting his shots today. I took him to the Spay & Neuter Clinic cuz it's cheap for shots.Anyway, Rex is not use to going anywhere. The poor pup was nervous & all the other dogs there were acting like it was nothing to be there. When the vet called Rex's name he sprawled out on all fours. Sage, I had to pick up all 48 lbs. of him & carry him in the office. HEE!! He was very good for the vet though. Didn't even flinch for his shots.He sure was glad to get home though! Hopefully his dog class won't freak him out!So much for being a brave pit bull!!
A couple of months ago you were going to sell the family home and move. What happened to that idea?
Why aren't you angry with your ex for doing what he did to you?
Why is anything he is doing of any interest to you?
Why do you want an alcoholic drug abuser in your life in any way? You are (as many others have pointed out) an accomplished woman of education and means. Even if he kicks his habit(s), he will not be the man you married.
Letting go and moving on is as much an attitude as anything else (as a friend often points out to me). You are clearly bogged down in an endless loop of the SOS (same old stuff). It almost seems to me as if you are saying to us (subconsciously) that all your accomplishments and stability matter not at all because you couldn't keep your marriage intact. Sage, that's not true for women who stay home and raise children, and it's not true for women who earn PhD's and start programs.
Your husband's gone. Your marriage is over. You can stop thinking about him and what he does anytime you choose...since you choose to keep him in your everyday thoughts, your pain is entirely self-inflicted at this point.
Why? Why do you think you deserve this treatment from yourself?
Chris.
edited for grammar
This message has been edited by chris924 on Jul 10, 2006 9:00 PM
Chris...am I supposed to know the answer to that question? Am I afraid of something? Hell, I don't know. I don't know why I continue to pine. I certainly don't enjoy the discomfort it brings. How does one stop thinking? I have been reading eastern philosophy, trying to be "present in the moment" and my moments that I find myself present in are the here and now...I guess I am, at some level, fantasizing us growing old together. I don't even know what that would have looked like. Am I simply suffering from "hurt feelings?" I DON'T KNOW. I am truly a woman who is so confused by all of this, I can't move to the right or the left. Maybe that's where I am supposed to be until I process all of this...whatever that means. I sense some irritation in your post, which I certainly understand. I am in total control of my life....then why can't I get myself out of this one? It is a gnawing feeling in my throat and gut...it is with me constantly. When I pay attention to it, I think, "what is it that you long for?" I can't even asnwer that question. As I look back on my life...it was a great one. Ironically, I did the academic/education "stuff" in the event that I would someday have to be on my own...it happened in my own childhood and my mother "insisted" that we are able to support ourselves. Well, I'm there. But not sharing the relaxed place in my life with anyone who is my object of affection....not talking children, friends, etc. A partner in life. I enjoyed being partnered....I don't know if I will find that again, and I am okay with that. There continues to be a very "unsettled" part of me. I didn't sell the house because I havent' found the job...I need to work, obviously. I am still looking and it is apparent to me that I need to move. BUT, I am choosing not to do it until I can locate a teaching job or something in a city where I will feel at home. I can the the site's "problem child"....the one that each of you can practice patience and tolerance for.....hell, maybe that's why this happened...maybe that's why I am still "stuck" to provide each of you an opportunity to develop compassion and tolerance (that was a joke).LOL.
If the physical act of whacking with the 2x4 will help, please bring it on. I so appreciate your time spent with me and responding to me. I want out of this prison....am I keeping myself here? According to each of you, yes. How am I doing that? Not accepting my place in life? I guess so. Then talk to me about acceptance and what that involves.
I employ you to provide me wisdom and guidance.
Find a child or a victim of something really horrific and spend some time with them. Your life suddenly won't look so bad.
Perhaps there is a burn victim at a local hospital, or an elderly woman who has no family or a child who has lost his or her parents in a car accident, a victim of sexual abuse etc
Dear Sage: I am sorry to hear that you are in pain and feel so stuck in a terrible place. May I ask if you have a passion other than your family and ex-husband? Not a pastime or an amusement, but a passion that feeds your soul and makes you feel alive and grounded and peaceful?
Perhaps opening your heart to the possibility of finding such a passion might help to fill the emptiness you are suffering with. I know how silly it seems, running through a list of things that might spark an interest, but if you allow yourself to imagine the possibilities you might be surprised at where those avenues lead.
I had a long-time passion that I gave up because of connections with OW (I was her mentor, ugh). I put all the memories and accomplishments and friendships and sense of “belonging” aside and never returned to it. After a while, I realized how much of myself I had lost by giving up something that gave me such joy. I have found time after time that the universe has an odd way of
providing what you need at the right time – and with some strange twists in the road I have found myself with another passionate endeavour – different, but no less fulfilling.
Kid wisely suggested a pursuit of compassion. You know, it may help you as much as it helps the recipient of your kindness. You are obviously filled with empathy and have a gentle way in your writings. I am betting that if you open your heart and mind to the possibility of finding your passion, the universe may well oblige.
On another note, I hope you will forgive me if I rant a bit here: You write:
<<I am going to do the "puppy" training homework so my poor puppy doesn't get squired with water during classs tonight. The trainer has a "nazi" orientation...she squirts the puppies with water that don't do their tricks/obey. I want to save my poor dog from that.>>
I have spent 30 years training dogs and horses and have taught many obedience classes in my time and I think you might want to consider asking for a refund of your fees and finding another trainer. The job of a dog trainer is to train the owner to train his/her dog. Does this trainer expect you to travel around with a water pistol at all times to “correct” your pup? LOL! There are SO
many better and more appropriate ways to extinguish unwanted behaviours than this! Find a trainer (there are lots out there) who can show you how to train your dog using variable reinforcement (google "clicker training dogs" for a complete explanation -- Karen Pryor and Gary
Wilkes have good websites about operant conditioning with dogs). It is humane, fun, safe and very effective – you will never go to class saying you want to save your poor dog from the trainer (and your pup will LOVE to go to school). BF Skinner changed the world for dogs and it’s too bad there are so many trainers who prefer physical intimidation and corporal punishment when it
is unnecessary. Your gut feeling is right about this trainer's methods.
You know, working with a dog that you have trained to a level in which the two of you communicate effortlessly is an incredible experience. Watch agility or obedience competitions on Animal Planet and you’ll see what I mean. Who knows ... it could become a passion, Sage!
Ah....doggie training, now that is something I had never considered. I have felt uncomfortable with the water stuff....I didn't spank my children and could never consider making them appear humiliated by me...I think the water squirting is humiliating...it is for me, I can only imagine how it is for him. Anyway, I take from her what I can tolerate and leave the rest behind. He is an adorable animal and I couldn't imagine wanting to "train" him out of his natural ways...he is not "mean spirited" and only wants to play and have fun...he's only 10 months old, anyway.
Kid....I have not taken the time to know other's pain at the extent that you suggest. I am aware of those who suffer in the world....I work with high conflict divorcing families and witness on a daily basis what some parents put their children through....I think I find compassion in other ways...not sure that I can verbalize them, but I do know that I am one of the most fortunate persons in the world, albeit my "complaining" (is that what I am doing, I am simply trying to state "impatience" with myself), for all that I have been able to do with my life, for my family, friends, and children. I guess I am in the middle of a "pity" party....the good news is that I am ready to move on to something else. Please don't interpret what I say as wanting pity or even empathy. I am "stuck" in a place in my life that is new to me....I don't have a frame of reference for this....I have not lived it long enough to realize my options, and I am simply asking for input, suggestions, and guidance from those of you who are more "seasoned" than I am. I know that there are people, many, many people in the world who are much worse off than I am. I am thankful for what I have and only want for me to be able to give myself what I think is missing in my life now. I don't even know what that is.
Passion...no, I don't have a passion...I don't even know that that looks like. I have plenty of hobbies...things I enjoy doing. A passion, no, I don't. I have read the woman's book on reinventing yourself and had to stop because of all of these talented women pursuing their passions. The only thing I haven't done yet is climbed a mountain and I don't want to do that. It sounds scary, not passionate. I don't know what the next day will bring. I certainly do want to awaken in the morning waiting to embark upon something that would appear to be or be defined as a passion, but I havent' found it yet....maybe I'm not ready for that yet. I don't know.
I do love my work and enjoy the time I spend working. I am trying to recapture some of the things that I felt that I put on "hold", although there were very few things I had to put on hold. I have managed to do the things that I wanted to do...maybe I am simply a "boring" person or maybe lazy....who knows.
Thank you again for your insight and thoughts.....I will think about what I am passionate about and attend to what needs to be done at the moment.
No one can hand you a blueprint that you can follow. Our accumulated wisdom on this site amounts to this:
Life is a "do it yourself" project.
I found my own answers by answering probing questions (my own and others') with something other than "I don't know".
Yes, Sage, I'm frustrated by people who get stuck in the same place over and over because they don't want to answer those deep questions.
I am frustrated by others in that situation precisely because I was the same way for a long time, as some "elders" around here can attest. My d-day was around the same time as many others here, but I moved much more slowly than anyone toward resolving my issues.
Once I figured out that no one was going to hand me the blueprint for my "new" life, I made things happen pretty fast. I can speak only for myself, but when I ask those probing questions and get "I don't know" answers, it seems to me as if you're afraid to face the future.
Why is that? Take a stab at a short answer that is clear and direct (other than "I don't know".)
I realize that no one can hand me a "blueprint" for my life. I have to do that for myself and have managed on my own for almost 3 years. I honestly don't know the answers to the questions that you ask....perhaps the answer lies in the questions which will come in time...now, I really don't know. I don't think I am avoiding things that I won't admit I was at fault for...I can see those clearly now. What I can't understand is the total lack of "life" on our parts for not recognizing this was going on. I know that he was fully aware of it...I beat myself up daily for not being more cognizant....maybe that is it, I can't forgive myself for not being able to read his mind...foolish when you think about it. As stated before, this is all new to me. I am a slow learner...the learning curve is difficult. I don't want to avoid anything I need to learn from this experience. I function at a better level when I confront the things that are standing in my way....this is definately standing in my way, but the ability to "tackle" it has me spoofed. I envy your strength, fortitute, whatever it is that you possess....I don't have it yet. I don't think that I won't get it, but I continue to want to move beyond it...perhaps this strikes a cord with you because you did it more easily than I am able to...some infants walk at 9 months, some at 18 months. Again, I am slow to learn this or glean from it what I am supposed to get. I "get" that he is out of my life...that is painfully obivous. I "get" that he is not coming back...that thought, unfortunately, I still "harbor"....maybe it is my safety valve for now. Maybe I need to become more insightful about myself before I am ready to totally accept this. Again, I don't know. Sorry I am such a piriful person in your eyes....I admire you for your energy to get through it...try to encourage me.....I need to be encouraged. I need strength from those who can provide it.....
You are someplace foreign to you: alone with yourself, without answers.
You were there a couple of years ago. You were there when you first came to us. You're still there today.
You wrote >>I honestly don't know the answers to the questions that you ask....perhaps the answer lies in the questions which will come in time...now, I really don't know. ... I function at a better level when I confront the things that are standing in my way....this is definately standing in my way, but the ability to "tackle" it has me spoofed. I envy your strength, fortitute, whatever it is that you possess....I don't have it yet. ....
Maybe I need to become more insightful about myself before I am ready to totally accept this.<<
All I "have" is insight into myself, Sage. I got it by asking myself one main question: "Why am I so angry", because that's how my stuck-ness manifested itself. That led to all kinds of other questions, many of which I've posted here over the years. (The most recent was "what do you want in a new partner".)
My obstacle was me. Though I've always been utterly unafraid to ask others "the tough questions", I was dodging them myself. The answers didn't come "in time", they came only when I took responsibility and answered them. With self-awareness and self-understanding, I started to get un-stuck from my past.
Your obstacle is you. If "I don't know" is your answer to those "why" questions, then you're dodging the questions when you need to be facing them.
Do yourself a favor: take my list of questions to your counselor and discuss how to proceed with finding the answers for yourself. I'm pretty sure a helping professional will help you work through the process of finding self-awareness.
Kid, Kat, Chris and others had some great responses and suggestions.
I guess what screams out to me from reading your posts is the thought "Why does she not think she deserves any better?" because it seems you have the intellect and means to a better life, yet your stuck. It seems that your stuck in the inability to realize that YOU can control your thoughts and you have the power to make yourself happy - if you "want" to.
Another thought of mine is that for some reason (even though you have a great career and education) your self esteem has been lowered (which is quite normal when you've been cheated on,) yet not so normal for as long as you've gone through this.
I've probably said this before but what I honestly think would help you is to write a profile for yourself on Match.com and find a man close to your age to date just for the hell of it. I know many won't agree it will help you but why not give it a try and find out? My hideous 2 cents!!! Just be careful and drive yourself the first few dates and be picky about who you date. Even if you don't find the love of your life you could find a few more friends to do stuff with and hell you might even get as lucky as I did and meet a great guy.
Charlie........I know Match worked for you, but I am one of those people that would completely disagree with that being a way out of the pain. Happiness needs to be found inside yourself, not by burying it with a new guy. Eventually the "newness" would wear off and then she would be left in the same place she was in the beginning. A new man in Sage's life at a stage when she isn't happy with herself is a disaster waiting for a time and place to happen. When you are vulnerable you also tend to be drawn to the wrong type of people and people sense it and may take advantage.
In fact, if you have low self esteem and get rejected over and over again it is almost enough to drive a person over the edge if they are close.
Kid
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 7:54 AM
"Happiness needs to be found inside yourself, not by burying it with a new guy. Eventually the "newness" would wear off and then she would be left in the same place she was in the beginning"
Kid
While I know what your saying it true and no doubt if someone is depressed, they need to get help for that first but, I also think that getting out there when you've been stuck this long and just realizing that there are other men out there can also help get unstuck on one person as Sage seems to be. I think it could help Sage just realize that there are other men out there and who may even be better for her than her H.
You may have had bad experiences with it Kid but I also think it could be that you were picking the wrong type of guys and I don't mean to be mean by saying that. I mean you spoke of getting stalked by one and I remember some other horror stories but the few I met and kept talking to back then seemed very stable and the two I actually met seemed just fine although BF was much better than the other one I went on a date with. I'm not sure what your criteria was for meeting men online but you can meet someone nice online but you have to look for certain qualities and you can tell by reading their profiles (which can be lies, yes) but also get a feel on the phone and via many e-mails previously. I know about 6 women who met online and all have been married for quite a while and a few others who are currently dating someone decent (including my ex), one on my friends has been married for 8 years and she is very happy.
Kid, I know it is hard to believe that you can meet quality people online because you've had a bad experience and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Once again, if there is depression, your right, that needs to be addressed. My opinion is that going out with an intention of making a few friends can't hurt if your careful. The worst you can do, if you are careful, is make a few friends and the best is maybe meeting someone you will grow to care a good deal about. I know we have different opinions about this and I respect your opinion.
YOU HAVE TO FIND HAPPINESS INSIDE AND LOVE FOR YOURSELF BEFORE YOU CAN BE LOVED BY ANYBODY ELSE OR IT WILL END IN DISASTER!!! Attaching yourself to another man to get over the first is a recipe for a broken heart. Sage has to deal with the issue first. (see "advice from remarried please" in further for an example of why I say what I say. This happens way too often.)
The problem is this.........you've openly advertised online on a dating site and there is some level of expectation that you are looking for a date. If you want friends, join a club, find a hobby........don't lead men on and make them think there is a possibility of more when your not emotional equipped to handle it and too vulnerable to say no.
I know you seem to think I am finding the wrong men and my selection criteria is lacking - but you couldn't be further from the truth. Likely the problem lies more in the fact that my selection criteria is alot stiffer than yours. I am a professional in a fairly small community and I have a reputation to uphold. Also, as judgemental as it may sound, I won't date a man who makes substantially less than me and who isn't motivated to succeed.
edited to add: I don't think I posted on this board about it, but I do have a friend that I met 9 months ago on lavalife and talked casually with for a long time. Within the last few months we have become alot closer and we started talking on the phone daily. Not sure where it is going really, but he is a great friend and if nothing else I am happy with that.......just enjoying each other and having fun.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 5:49 PM This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 5:45 PM
"I know you seem to think I am finding the wrong men and my selection criteria is lacking - but you couldn't be further from the truth. Likely the problem lies more in the fact that my selection criteria is alot stiffer than yours. I am a professional in a fairly small community and I have a reputation to uphold. Also, as judgemental as it may sound, I won't date a man who makes substantially less than me and who isn't motivated to succeed."
Kid
I do agree that Sage's happiness needs to come from her first, no doubt. Sage also seems as if she is stuck thinking her ex is the only man out there for her because or her age or something else perhaps? Your making an assumption that she will get hurt from just going on a date or two or she could hurt someone else - I disagree.
From what you've written, your selection criteria only discusses what your dates make and that they are motivated and it is wrong of you to assume that I wouldn't look for that too. As a matter of fact the other guy I dated online was a CEO of a company and had a great deal of money, but I wasn't impressed by his money at all. He asked me out again and I declined. I also was looking for someone who had a decent job and is motivated to succeed although they certainly didn't need to be rich. More importantly, I was looking for someone who valued honesty, is close to his family, and knew how to treat others and I found that. Just because you had a bad experience online doesn't mean others can't find it.
My profiles have always said that I am looking for an honest man, who respects women, caring, down to earth, believes family is important, etc - in fact never once have I mentioned money in my online profiles, but I do look at their income level when they respond to me and honestly if it is under $50k a year I ask a whole different set of questions (ie where do you see yourself in 5 years). I mentioned the money factor here to point out that I have dated several doctors and other professionals - you seem to indicate you think I am selecting creepy individuals or something. These appeared on the surface to be everyday, normal, average men.
When I searched profiles I would look for words like honest, caring, unselfish, non judgemental, faithful, loyal. I would look for people who appeared down to earth and expressed themselves well.
Please tell my why you think your search skills are superior to mine - because honestly that is the impression I have been getting from you.
"Your making an assumption that she will get hurt from just going on a date or two or she could hurt someone else - I disagree. " Since you don't have low self esteem perhaps it is difficult for you to understand this Charlie - but it is very easy to get hurt when you are that fragile. You may have to deal directly with the fact they aren't interested in you. People who have low self esteem may think it is something they did or said. They will feel not wanted - especially after being abandoned by an exH. They will feel lonely. I know this because I have been there Charlie. It broke my heart every time it happened until I worked on my self esteem and found out what made me happy and how what others thought was their problem, not mine. You think one or two dates are harmless, but I am afraid I have to disagree with you. To an emotionally healthy person who is confident and happy with themselves it likely isn't a problem. To an individual who is hurting it is far more easy to attach to somebody who listens, who acts like they care - even if you only met them once or twice.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 6:31 PM This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 6:23 PM
"I mentioned the money factor here to point out that I have dated several doctors and other professionals - you seem to indicate you think I am selecting creepy individuals or something. These appeared on the surface to be everyday, normal, average men."
Kid, just because someone has a doctorate or is a professional certainly doesn't mean they are normal or average. Let me give you a few examples of why I say that. I have two girlfriends who have gotten divorced in the past 2-3 years. Both had husbands with doctorates. One is a drug addict although when I met him, he seemed perfectly normal and quite handsome, the other is a great guy was a friend of our family but I see something in him that is unappealing. First of all, he seemed flirty with me just a bit and that bothered me because they were married at the time, and I also know he was divorced before my friend met him and he seems to me as if he is always looking for something more - maybe never happy with what he had/has. His ex wife is educated, tall slim and gorgeous, an incredible mother, and one of the nicest women I know.
"When I searched profiles I would look for words like honest, caring, unselfish, non judgemental, faithful, loyal. I would look for people who appeared down to earth and expressed themselves well."
"Please tell my why you think your search skills are superior to mine - because honestly that is the impression I have been getting from you."
"my selection criteria is alot stiffer than yours. I am a professional"
Kid, you are the one who is putting words in my mouth here. That is your assumption but please re-read what you wrote above. You are the one who has told several horror stories about stalking and other crazy stuff you've dealt with but not once do you talk about meeting any nice guys online that I remember who just weren't right for you, unless the last post did that. I don't know what that place you mentioned is. You seem to talk badly about online sites and just because you had a bad experience with them doesn't mean everyone will. If you keep meeting these crazy people then you may not be picking up on something via the phone or e-mail - I didn't say your criteria is bad. It could be that you don't talk to them enough or any one of a number of things. I also realize that just because I had a good experience doesn't mean everyone will too.
I still don't think a date or two would hurt Sage. It could be just coffee or a movie. It doesn't mean she or he will get hurt in the process. It could just make her realize that there are other men out there. It doesn't mean a marriage proposal or intimacy. I wouldn't suggest this if I thought Sage was a danger to anyone or in danger but she seems intelligent, funny, thoughtful, and seems to be a decent person. She is also far out from her divorcee although stuck. Maybe just realizing there are others out there who would like to meet women her age would be a good reminder to her that she is appealing to others even now at a later age. Who cares how she meets them.
Charlie
This message has been edited by charlie288 on Jul 13, 2006 6:53 PM This message has been edited by charlie288 on Jul 13, 2006 6:52 PM
"Kid, just because someone has a doctorate or is a professional certainly doesn't mean they are normal or average"
Yes but it does point out to you that they aren't drug dealers, serial rapists, convicted child molestors, actually have some education and belong to some sort of society that deems them to have ethics.
From our Feb conversation "I have had friends look at my profile (male too) and they think its good. My only requirements are that I am looking for a man who is honest, down to earth, open to the possibility of a relationship, wants kids, is gainfully employed and is able to communicate.
I don't have any height, weight, income limits etc. set."
"I'm not sure what your criteria was for meeting men online but you can meet someone nice online but you have to look for certain qualities and you can tell by reading their profiles"
I am not putting words in your mouth, but we have had this same conversation in the past. At this point perhaps we should just agree to disagree since we will likely never see eye to eye on this issue.
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 7:15 PM This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Jul 13, 2006 7:10 PM
"Yes but it does point out to you that they aren't drug dealers, serial rapists, convicted child molestors, actually have some education and belong to some sort of society that deems them to have ethics."
Well not in my experience. You must not have read my whole post above. I told about how one of my friends ex hubbys IS addicted to drugs. What about our own ex president? Wasn't he a professional? Did he have ethics? I learned in history that he wasn't one bit unusual in that department. What about the doctors that have sexually abused patients? What about the lawyers who defend people who even they believe are guilty? Heck even priests are guilty of it.
Kid, you know I understand your apprehension about dating and/or meeting the people online. I've heard the stories and oooh-wee! However, I really think for Sage, focusing her attention on something other than her ex might be just the diversion she needs to make a real break. I don't think it's wise for her to attempt to find a new spouse in the next 3 days, but just LOOKING can't hurt. She does have to be happy with herself, but maybe some attention from someone else can help foster that happiness? Maybe it's a gentle nudge in the right direction - not a SHOVE to the altar.
Sorry, Sage, I didn't mean to talk about you as if you were not reading.
I started dating WAY too early and yes, it had bad results. I was too angry and I talked about my ex constantly. But, it gave me something to look forward to. When a guy reacted to me in a positive way, it was an ego boost. The first comment I got post-separation about looking good, I was on cloud nine for a week! I even wrote about it in my journal, nerd that I am! It gave me a crumb of hope that maybe someone would eventually find me "date-able". I had a little confidence and that was an important thing because I was beaten down by my ex leaving. If nothing else, my early "dates" were a good lesson in things that I would not tolerate in another relationship.
Sage, you have the tools to make steps towards your happiness. You may not feel lucky, but you are! You've got a great job, you're smart and articulate, your interests are varied, and most importantly, you KNOW you're stuck. Imagine going through what you're going through, working a minimum wage job with 3 toddlers at home. You're more than a step ahead, you really are. You have to stop looking in the rearview mirror and start looking through the windshield. Does your ex really deserve all the energy you give him? Is he doing the same for you? Sage... what is stopping you? What is your biggest fear - and what is the WORST that could happen if it were true? You can't keep your ex's place open for him - it's not a place at all, it's a HOLE filled with a very black sadness. It's a hole that he chose to put there. He's not even a safe place to land! He's TOXIC.
I hope you don't feel beaten up, Sage (or you either, Kim!!). I promise you, that was never my intent.
Monica
My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.
Accountants, lawyers, doctors, engineers - they are all part of a professional accounting body which regulates them.
If you have any criminal convictions you lose your license to practice as a professional.........therefore anybody who is presently practising should be faily safe (or has yet to be charged.) lol In my mind that makes them a safer bet than your average joe. As an accountant I would lose my designation for so little as declaring bankruptcy.
<<I love my job, have a great job, have wonderfully supportive friends, yet I am MISERABLE....why? What is Sage not doing?>>
One thing that is absent from Sage's post and the subsequent thread is spirituality.
Why is that? Why is it we can discuss the deepest pain of betrayal and sexual issues, but we shy away from discussing spiritual ways of comfort and healing?
I hear people talking about needing to feel "complete," to be part of someone, or something bigger than themselves.... to be "filled" -- "ful-filled." For me and for many I know, exploring and deepening my own relationship with God satisfies this deep hunger. For me, knowing my purpose in life and resting in that really is a resting place for me -- even tho I know I moan and groan on these forums a lot.
I'm with you. Most of the time I feel "wholeness". Having a peace in your heart that can't be taken away IS the most precious thing-in my book anyway.
Sage- I can't rememeber if you have read "The Power of Now". When my XH first gave me the book, I was wrapped up in bitterness and loss. I was spitting venom before I even got out of bed. And ANY book the hinted of peace, enlightenment, love, or holiness was mocked by me with a sarcastic "Yeah, well, this airy fairy asshole isn't going through what I am."
I've been divorced for a month, and separated for 20. The sadness and longing I've felt were unbearable, and I wanted to die from the grief. BUT, it's true, we are NOT our thoughts, and they don't have to control our lives any longer.
And if you meet a man to have fun with then go for it. I think you are smart enough to figure out that you don't need a man to be "whole" and to have peace.
I've not been on ONE date and I am having a wonderful time.
It just takes a simple focus on being conscious of where you are at this particular moment, and analyzing your thought to see if they are "true". And then recoginize that what is true is often what you make up.
So, make up a new story, a new understanding and a new you.
<<Sage- I can't rememeber if you have read "The Power of Now". When my XH first gave me the book, I was wrapped up in bitterness and loss. I was spitting venom before I even got out of bed. And ANY book the hinted of peace, enlightenment, love, or holiness was mocked by me with a sarcastic "Yeah, well, this airy fairy asshole isn't going through what I am." >> MM, ain't it a pisser when someone you'd love to hate (or at least despise, ha ha) does something ... nice?
<<BTW....I've met Charlie's boyfriend and spent time with him. Every divorced or single woman out there should be so lucky.>> Hey, no fair! When do I get to meet Charlie's boyfriend? (tee hee.)
I agree with the above -- although there may be some cultural differences between blue collar workers and white collar professionals -- screwed up people are screwed up people. Some just have more money.
Wow....lots of stuff going on here. Yes, I have read the "Power of Now" and his latest book as well. I am "not there" yet....when I think of being in the moment...I can separate myself from the grief and be present, but then it lasts about two seconds...maybe I need to go back and reread it. I have about 30 books that I have read diligently...some I need to revisit.
Hmmmm.....on line dating. I must admit that I have not given it a thought. It is not because I don't think I am worthy or that I am so miserable that I couldn't judge one's character. I honestly "don't know" (sorry Chris) what I would look for in a perspective person. I have h onestly tried to think of men I know...from my social network, and I am not necessarily attracted to any of them....their character, their personality, etc. I am out here doing what I need to do...work, exercise, "mother" my puppy, cook for my children...etc. I don't get out much but I am not really wanting to do that. I think those things will come in time.
Professionals....I have had it with professionals...my former H is a health professional addicted to alcohol and lortabs...he goes to work drunk and pops pills all day. The people with whom he works..(OW included) are former "druggies" as well. I think they have established a "window dressing" of professionalism that is a farse (spelling..I am too lazy to look it up). They "cover" for one another. Their moral fiber is lower than the earth's crust. I didn't realize this about them, but that is a fact.
They all want to keep their jobs and if one rats on the other...they will all lose. That is a fact.
I want a lumber jack...someone who appreciates me for what I have to give, someone whom I can support and love, someone who loves me in return. I want a "partner" in life...an equal. I work the crossowrd puzzles daily and I want someone who will do those with me...and know the answers. That doesn't require an "education" just someone who has read and knows trivia, mostly. I don't care how much or how little money he makes. I have been with money and it is simply a way to eliminate stress in one's life....you don't have to worry about paying the bills or paying for the children's education. I honestly try to think of books I have read, movies I have seen to identify a profile of a person to whom I would be attracted....none come to mind. Who are your most favorite characters in films that you could easily become attracted to? Would want to become involved with? That would make an interesting conversation. What film character would you love to have at your side as a life partner? I am going to be thinking on this one...join me. I can't think of any film that I have seen that I would want as a life partner. Maybe Colin Firth....in that film, Love Actually, he was a catch, I think. What about others of you? Sleep well.
Sage......
Sage,
I am so sorry for your struggle. You have always given Bob and I such great sound advice or your two cents worth when (mostly Bob) was posting on a daily basis here. I feel for you and I wish there was somehting I could say to ease your pain and struggle. Sage, through reading your posts you seem like a very smart, caring,introspective person. This sucks that you are feeling stuck in this black hole.
Isn't too bad we couldn't be a fly on the wall sometimes and see what really goes on with other people when we are not around. I bet you would be shocked to see that his life isn't so great! He still is the same person with the same problems! You are trying to deal with yours... he is just running away with his...Do you really want that person back???
You are a beautiful person Sage! I have never seen your physical being but your heart is beautiful! I admire you! Your posts ( and many others here) let me see the error of my selfish ways and I thank you! You are strong able woman with what sounds like many talents!
You have so much to offer yourself, the world and men! Don't let this drag you down any longer.... time is awastin!!!!!
You can do this!
Thanks for your kind words, Mrs Bob. I am thrilled that the two of you are able to be in the place you are now...still struggling with some things I am sure, but at least together. It has always been my thinking that if one is "okay" with themselver...as a person, one is able to connect with practically anyone (barring such things as dysfunctionality, looks, mannerisms, etc...sort of teasing here). In any event, I am a decent person and I guess my former H was too wrapped up in his own pain to allow me to be the person I was. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall. That's part of the struggle for me. I (this is going to sound like a pity party, but it's the only way I know how to put it into words) am the one in the pain and he has in essence, gotten off scott free.....has simply marched on with his life leaving so many bridges burned. I honestly didn't know that people could function at that level. Maybe he doesn't have a conscience. I don't know. I resent that he is, in his own mind, in a better place and it is not with me. There in lies the pain for me. He moved on without me. I thought I was what he needed. That's a hard thing to look at....knowing that I had such confidence in the relationship, marriage...and "poof"...gone. I do have a great deal to contribute to the welfare of someone's life....I just wanted him to be the recipient. I am getting to the point that when I think about him...where he is now, that I am almost afraid. I haven't seen him for months...probably four....but don't really want to. He is definately not the person with whom I fell in love. He is still the object of my love but I don't know why..oops, I said it again, I don't know.
I am rambling...thank you for your time and support. Have a wonderful day in sunny LA
"I...am the one in the pain and he has in essence, gotten off scott free.....has simply marched on with his life leaving so many bridges burned. I honestly didn't know that people could function at that level. Maybe he doesn't have a conscience. I don't know. I resent that he is, in his own mind, in a better place and it is not with me."
I'm curious what makes you think in his mind that he is in a better place? Do you say that because he is still with her? I remember you telling us that he has complained a bunch of times to you about her or her kids. I'm doubting you've heard everything there is to their relationship. Why would he want to make her look bad to the person who stood by him and the one he left? If he really cared about her, he would stop this drug addiction but he hasn't.
My experience in the last two years with my ex has been one of feeling empathy for him. He chose not to get counseling and decided it would be easier to separate than to get counseling. One thing that I see often with my ex though is regret. At least I think so, sometimes I'm not certain that is what I'm seeing but I have seen him come to get the kids several times and walk away with what I think is a tear in his eye and once when my whole family was here I saw it and he turned away quickly and left without saying goodbye. I doubt he would ever ask to be back in my life because he doesn't want to get help and doesn't want to fight over his addictions anymore. I'm glad he doesn't ask. He is dating someone now and she seems nice but he does complain about minor things to me about her, which seems strange to me. Why does he do that to me? Doesn't really matter to me.
Sage, I don't really think your ex is in a better place without you. Someone who needs to make himself feel better by taking drugs has some serious issues and in my case I am happy that I am out of that addictive cycle.
Sage,
I understand your feeling of wanting to know if he is suffering too. Well he is, how can he not be? How can you burn bridges and not suffer from it in some way? He is just choosing to cover it up and not deal with it. He is just not suffering in the same way you are. He has brought all of the same problems to this new relationship so NOW SHE has to deal with it NOT You!!!!
It sounds perfectly normal the feelings you are feeling. Just remember that is now YOUR choice as to how you deal with it. He is NOT dealing with his. He knows what he has done and instead of dealing with it he's hoping someone else will help him to avoid dealing with it.(Did that make sense?) Eventually it will fizzle out and he has burned another bridge!
Karma! It will eventually catch up with him and then watch him fall... Like a ton of bricks!!!
Sage, don't let him keep you stuck! He doesn't deserve the time in your life now! You do! You can do this! Prove to yourself you can do this!
I'm cheering for you!
Mrs Bob
Thanks for your kind words too...Bob and I are doing ok. We have our struggles but we seem to be getting through them. We are going to Napa next week alone..no kids! I am excited!
Your words are so encouraging....I am muddling through. At some level, I almost wish he would simply plummet and hit rock bottom. I don't like having those thougths. I am not motivated to wish "ill" on anyone. BUT...the thought has crossed my mind. Again, I am trying desperately to get away from "thinking about him"...as you say, this is about me now and what I need in my life. That I haven't figured out as yet. I am in counseling again to help me try to see t hings more objectively ( I know, how more objective can it be???DUH). Anyway, I will certainly have the skills to maybe help others who find themselves where I have found myself..simply walking in circles and wandering around...it is surreal to me. I continue to struggle with the pining....I know, the 2x4...when I think about him and the relationship he h as with her, I can't imagine it. Ours was relatively good for me...he didn't "act" that way in our marriage. BUT, I am not necessarily the confrontational type...I am so, probably too, easy going and simply let things go as they may. I have not yet experienced anger...what for? Of course I am angry...but the actual "act" of being angry I can't imagine doing it. I can throw a glass and it simply cuases me to have to clean up afterwards. I guess I could "cuss" him out, but I am do offended by that type of behavior...that woudl be getting at his leve.
I have read in previous posts...the BEST revenge is living a fulfill, healthy, good life. I think that is what I am trying to do. I exercise, eat right, don't drink (to excess), am giving and kind to people....I havent' done ANYTHING that I am ashamed of. Just had my little feelings hurt...in a big way, and am delaing with it as it comes up.
I am looking forward to my trip to Mexico....I cna't believe I am doing this. I am a relatively frugal person...but, this is a chance I might not ever get again...anyway, Monica shared with me that hte spanish name fo the place I am going is HOPE....yah. Hope.....peace....that's what I want.
All, have a great weekend.
Sage, something you wrote above hit me (not quite like a 2x4).
Were you around someone who got violent (not angry, but violent) when younger? Associating violence with anger and avoiding anger is a sort of dysfunctional approach. Your idea of "being angry" was illustrated by breaking glassware, and so I wondered where that idea came from.
When I say I was very angry for several years, I never threw stuff, punched holes in walls, drove cars into other objects, broke things, or screamed at people. (Well, I did scream at my then-wife once or twice when I was well past the breaking point with frustration, but then I walked away for quite a while with a dog on a leash or drove away to give myself time to calm down.)
Sage, if you don't give yourself permission to feel anger and work through it, it's a significant roadblock to personal development.
Naw...not around violence as a child....I simply associate the violence with the "physical" act...too many movies? I certainly have experienced the anger and do infact "run" when I am feeling especially energic about anger. I think the anger manifests itself in me as "rage" just a feeling that comes over me and I really sit with it and try to process it....I think a lot of the anger becomes crying for me...don't know what that means...maybe frustration, which I realize is not anger. I have never been one to get really angry...I just don't envision it as a very "functional" approach. I guess I sit with ie and try to identify the source of it...it is usually when I am "longing" for something...
I "feel" anger within me....but I guess I don't do anythning with it. Maybe I associate it too much with violence..but I was raised in a very nurturing home with loving parents. My mother would lose her temper and "yell" when she was angry, but I am not really a "yeller" either.
I am banking on all that each of you say....that I will get there and it will be on my own time line and in my own way.....
I haven't felt too much anger...again, I look at it differently. The man did a horribly disrespectful thing to me and his children....he behaved like a "slug"....he is a slug. There it is. Maybe the anger will come later...it just hasn't reared its ugly head yet....maybe it won't.
Can't think of anything else.
This is probably something to explore with your counselor/therapist, Sage.
One approach I learned courtesy of Harriet Lerner's "Dance of..." books is simply to ask yourself what your anger is telling you. You're partway there with saying it manifests itself as longing. My guess would be that you ARE angry that your ex has destroyed your life together. Under those circumstances, it's no surprise that you would pine for him and that life again.
Something to consider, though: that life wasn't working for HIM, whether or not it was "ideal" for you.
I realized that I have been somewhat unsympathetic about your situation because one of my basic life rules is that I don't want to be where I'm not wanted or not welcome. Faced with your situation, I'd be over it simply because the person in question did not want me and did not choose me...he chose the honey and the drugs and the booze. That's probably the ONE boundary I enforce consistently in my life, and that's why I tried for so long to simply get my then-wife to tell me what she wanted...whether she wanted to be with me or not...and to organize her life and choices consistently with that basic choice. I was very patient about getting an answer...five years.
Chris...intellectually I KNOW that I don't want to be where I am not wanted. BUT, emotionally I am not there yet...consistency....that's what I need. My brain and gut need to be in syncn...they're not. I don't consider your posts "unsympathetic", simply "frustrated"...that's what I pick up from you. You have been there and done it. I am there and have not done it. I think my former H is on a downward spiral....he will crash and I really don't want to be around emotionally, physically, or in any other way. I guess that's part of the reason why I want this to be over, emotionally, for me. I realize it will always "linger", but the intensity of the situation for me now is overwhelming.
I am an adult, mature, female and acting like a 13 year old whose boyfriend has just "broken up" with her. It is rediculous...not necessarily my "overt" behavior, but certainly the feelings I experience on a daily basis. I still walk around in circles...
What took you 5 years? Did you remain in the marriage for 5 years or struggle as I describe myself doing for 5 years? I never had the opportunity to ask him what he wanted...by the time I was aware, he was already gone emotionally.
I guess I just think it is such a shame that he made such a stupid choice and so many people were crushed by it. I'll get there. I really believe everything that all of you post....that it takes time and I will get there.
The addiction "stuff" I am not familiar with.....I should be, but am not.
I'll go now...have a great day.
>>What took you 5 years? Did you remain in the marriage for 5 years or struggle as I describe myself doing for 5 years? I never had the opportunity to ask him what he wanted...by the time I was aware, he was already gone emotionally<<
Yes, we remained together for five years after d-day. And, frankly, it was no longer about an affair by that point. For me, it was all about a struggle to be somewhere I was wanted vs. her behavior toward me that suggested she didn't want to be with me...even though she wouldn't/couldn't say. It was a slow-motion train wreck, full of emotional abuse and games. Not entirely by her, either.
My one big "if only" is that I understand now I should have insisted on a separation right after d-day, but I was afraid of its effect on my boys (who were then 13 and 9). I think that might have forced a quicker resolution, and I might have made different life choices right then to protect myself for the future.
So....how are you now? My guess is that the struggle you experienced during the 5 years together would not have been any different than had you separated. I think you are a most generous person to want to do that for your boys....they most probably would have suffered to a greater extent had you been separated? Who knows.....
So you are divorced now? She is no longer in your life? How are your boys? I assume you are ready to launch them. See...it took you 5 years so I am due at least another 3....hope I am on almost on the other side of this. My life is too precious to me to be brooding over something that remains a mystery and for which I will never know the answer. It's all about letting go.....my grip is loosening.
<<My one big "if only" is that I understand now I should have insisted on a separation right after d-day, but I was afraid of its effect on my boys (who were then 13 and 9). I think that might have forced a quicker resolution, and I might have made different life choices right then to protect myself for the future.>>
Chris, I share this big "what if" with you. Everything inside of me told me to kick him to the curb on d-day but I didnt. I thought of the children and how suddenly their life would change and that they would be devastated. Plus he said all the right things at the time. I told him that if he didnt want to be with me that this was his opportunity to go. He said he wanted to stay, that he loved me and wanted our marriage to work out and I believed him for a long time after that, even though all his actions said otherwise (especially lately). So I can really relate to what you have said. Unfortunately it takes us time to see this for ourselves and in our own time.
And I know this sounds awful but I think I would have been better off if H had left on d-day. I certainly would be further in my own healing. But nothing about infidelity is easy, whether you stay or go, or whether your WS stays or goes. And divorce is no piece of cake no matter what.
Carol...I read with remorse your posts. I wish your H could have stepped up to the plate and met you half way. I would not be so fast to beat yourself up. Perhaps your children have learned soemthing from this....that you simply don't give up when the going gets rough....that one needs to be sure of their decisions, especially critical ones like this. That perseverence is a quality that we would like for all of our children an opportunity to role model. Telling the children will be hard, difficult, to say the least. I hope your H can be a part of that conversation so that the children can understand that he values them and his relationship to them. My H would not come to meet with us....he said, "they don't give a damn about me"....PROJECTION. Anyway, I had to be the one to say that I could not remain in the marriage because he did not follow through with the commitment we made years ago. He in essence broke a promise and I could no longer be a part of his life because of that. Of course they knew what was going on....everyone in our city did.
A funny story....my youngest son was a senior in highschool at the time. I asked him, follwoing the separation if he had told any of his friends. He said, "No, I am not saying anything until the divorce is final." Several weeks follwoing the divorce, I got up the nerve to ask him again...he said,
"Oh yes, I posted it on my web site".......hummmmm
>>So....how are you now? My guess is that the struggle you experienced during the 5 years together would not have been any different than had you separated.<<
There's no way to know, of course, but I think I would have been MORE "past it" after 5 years if I hadn't lingered in the marriage.
However, I would not have been forced to look at how I function in relationships. I would have been able to think "I'm okay...SHE cheated" and not feel any need to adjust my own behavior. I would not be the person I am today.
>>I think you are a most generous person to want to do that for your boys....they most probably would have suffered to a greater extent had you been separated? Who knows.....<<
I certainly believed at the time that they would have suffered, perhaps needlessly. However, my younger son was witness to a great deal of harshness and verbal sparring that he shouldn't have had to deal with. So maybe he suffered more by us staying together.
>>So you are divorced now? She is no longer in your life?<<
For the first year or two, we were in almost daily contact about the boys. When we separated, our older son was finishing his senior year in HS and younger son was finishing 8th grade. The older lived with her, the younger with me.
We probably talk about once a week, or less, and emails have gone from more than one a day down to about one or two a week. Several times a year we're both guests in the same places for holiday events, and once in a while she invites me to dinner with both boys...maybe two or three times in two and a half years. She had been in our former home just a handful of times since moving out, and (to my knowledge) she's never been in my new place. Our son might have invited her in while I was gone in June.
So, as a practical matter, she's no longer in my life except when it comes to the kids. I certainly do not miss trying to have a relationship with her.
>> How are your boys? I assume you are ready to launch them.<<
Older son is a Marine reservist and entering his junior year of college. He's pretty well launched. Younger son is a HS junior, in a demanding HS magnet program. I'm looking forward to the day he starts college.
>> See...it took you 5 years so I am due at least another 3....hope I am on almost on the other side of this.<<
Well, most of this emotional work was "finished" a year ago when I shut down the former family business and got a job, so four years for me. The last big thing was moving out of the marital home in May.
>> My life is too precious to me to be brooding over something that remains a mystery and for which I will never know the answer. It's all about letting go.....my grip is loosening.<<
Aha. Yes, it is all that.
I am such a "matter of fact" person that I really didn't care to know how my ex felt about me or why she wanted to separate...I just wanted to know her "bottom line". If she didn't want to stay married, then fine...I'd give up and move on. I started the process of "letting go" when she moved out in early 2004. By the time I met with some folks from the boards in June 2005, I was pretty well "there". But I wasn't ready for a new relationship even then. I wanted to feel content and alone (as alone as a single parent can ever be) for a while.
You were married a very long time. The end of it was wrong.
What I eventually did was deliberate. For the most part, I turned my inner gaze away from 'them' the way you do when looking away from someone you don't like. I hold it there most of the time. I keep my focus on anything that erases 'that'. It's an exercise. It grows in time. Exercise creates newness through repetition and habit. Try something like that consciously over and over and over, and then give it another 2 years. Lots of time. Be very patient with yourself as I'm sure you have tried to be through this.
