It has been over a year since my wife’s d-days and we have been trying to work it out. We have spent many nights talking, gone to counseling, and done a lot of the other things couples do when trying to stay together. Her anger hasn’t diminished, her self-esteem is still extremely poor, and her need for revenge grows stronger.
It is her need for revenge that brings me back to this site now. Unlike most of you, or so my wife says, the other women’s husbands are unaware of their wives infidelity. The woman I was having an affair with at the time my wife found out has become the target of her need to seek revenge. She wants, maybe even needs, to tell him, and wants my help in doing it. I have declined.
If I had known before what I know now about the pain and suffering a betrayed spouse goes through, I would not have had the affairs. Seeing the pain and torment I have put my wife through has given me a much greater appreciation and understanding of how my actions can affect another person’s life. It is for this reason I have declined helping her extract any sort of revenge. It makes no difference to me if my wife creates a situation where the other woman’s husband discovers the affair, is told about the affair, or the other woman is forced to confess the affair, I Will Not be a party to putting another person in that kind of pain again.
We have had enough discussions on this topic that I know my wife:
A. Believes he has the right to know, no matter what the results might be.
B. Does not really care if the husband goes through the pain she is going through.
C. Thinks that informing him will help her get rid of a lot of her anger.
D. Feels a deep need to destroy the other woman’s life.
E. Does not believe she will suffer any personal guilt from her actions.
While I personally have had times, lasting months, even years, when I wanted to kill someone, but I have never really thought revenge was worth the effort, and I still don’t. I just can’t understand, grasp, or even empathize with this need for revenge. I can however, grasp and empathize with the pain the other woman’s husband will go through. All I have to do to get it is look at my wife’s pain.
Now the question: Will reveling the affair to the other woman’s husband accomplish anything besides putting him in the pain you all have experienced?
Any BS understands where Angela is coming from on this. I'm sure she feels not only cheated by the betrayal but that the OW walked away and went back to her life as is nothing happened. In other words she got away scot-free. That's a hard feeling to deal with. It doesn't matter if its true or not. That's just how alot of BS feel.
She might also feel by your refusal you are protecting the OW i.e. you still care about her. A test so to speak to see where your loyalties lie. Again...that's pretty common too.
The A has been over for over a year. Hopefully that means NC (No contact) as well. To me NC means NC from the BS as well as the WS.
I would ask Angela how focusing on the OW is helping your marriage. If her energy is on the OW then its not on herself or your relationship. I know this might seem hard for new BS to understand but at some point you can't keep pulling the scab off or the wound will never heal.
Angela if you are reading this: the OW has to live in a state of constant fear that you will expose her. That's not a nice way to live.
This might sound like BS to newbies but as time goes by you have to be somewhat if not alot selfish and protect YOUR marriage. I'm all for spilling the beans if the A is still going on or if NC is broken but its not your job to inject yourself into their marriage. I know...I know...it sounds crappy. Afterall she injected herself into yours.
BUT...you have to decide what's more important in the long run: continue on your healing path or hurting the OW. Thoughts of revenge: we've all had them. Short term it might and probably will make you feel better. After the dust settles and the high from it has worn off you will find yourself right back at square one. Then you'll be pissed at yourself that she had that much control over you.
I think for me as a BS the revenge is not so much hurting the OW's H but letting him be aware that he may have STD's...the OW may still be fooling around ...she broke her marriage vows to be with you...she may be with many men right now...I would want to know if my H was cheating again...so letting OW'S H know is the fair thing to do...but it is a tough call I agree, especially after a year has passed...it took me almost 3 years to get past thinking about the OW...I think about the A but the OW is faceless.
For the H it can be a blessing because he has seen odd behavior and told he is crazy..he has been lied to, now he is finally able to see the truth...Oh but to hurt him ...and you know he will be hurt...but has the OW realized her mistake and apologized to Angela..
Angela can call the OW and have her tell her H ...and then the H can call Angela if he wants to verify the story..
I hear your pain but I also hear the pain that Angela has...and the OW is not suffering at all..her life is normal...yes revenge I can understand...we want the OW to suffer as we have suffered...as YOU the WS have suffered...fair ???? but boy is the desire to destroy normal strong...My H's OW was divorced and had had numerous affairs on both of her H's...
will telling the H make Angela feel better...No...she will hurt for him...but she will not feel sorry for the OW..
No clue how to help you...or Angela...it is a process thru healing...and your helping her feel secure, and it sounds as if you are doing all that for her.
take care,
Pat
. edited to add....I like what Tex said..
This message has been edited by dancin-gal on Aug 22, 2006 1:16 PM
I agree with Tex wholeheartedly. After the discovery of my wife's A I wanted to find the guy and beat him to a pulp. I nearly set off on several occasions to do such a thing but never actually went through with it and I am glad I exercised such self control.
I can understand your wife's anger and so should you. You have betrayed her and destroyed the trust between you both. I am just over 2 years past d-day and am still struggling with the devastation. My wife is completely remorseful and has worked very hard with me to try and salvage our marraige.
Perhaps you could sit down with her and discuss the motivation she feels and where this anger is coming from? I have a great book called "Beating Anger" which explains all types of anger and why we feel them. If you want the author details or ISBN let me know as I am at work at the moment.
I think from your wife's perspective that she would just be opening old wounds by contacting the OW or her husband and it isn't a good way forward as I think it will set your recovery back a long way.
You wrote, "I Will Not be a party to putting another person in that kind of pain again."
I understand what you are saying here, however, the situation renders you smack in the center ring. The only reason the OM is not suffering the same is due to the fact that the truth has been deliberately withheld from him by people who profess to know what's best for him. Hardly the case.
Telling him will not cause him the pain. What his wife did is the causative factor.
One thing that drove me bonkers prior to KNOWING, and Dancingal alluded to this, was how often and in so many ways my intuition did not match up with what I was seeing and hearing. This came through my H, and also through some other folks who knew at the time.
Note: Her H already knows something on some level to be sure.
I did not feel sane until I put all the pieces together which took me precisely 17 months of personal detective work. I found out everything. The truth rules and is very powerful. That should cause his wife constant concern.
Your current perspective is greatly affected by Angela's struggles and all that you know about this now....in hindsight. Her perspective is affected by the shock of the realization that her husband committed adultery with another woman, plus she knows who. The OW's perspective is likely affected by her own guilt and fear that she: (1)already lost everything as she knows it in a way that she controlled; and (2)stands to lose everything as she knows it in a way that she will not be in control of. Her h's current perspective is a crime because it's a lie that he lives at the hands of others.
That being said, and this is all my own opinion on your list above, it is probably true that he has the right to know. It is likely true that it's wrong for others to appoint themselves judge to whether or not the OW's husband should be spared his own life experiences. Informing him will not likely help Angela's anger. Her anger is toward you. It is likely that the OW already destroyed much of her own life. Speculating on future emotions such as guilt due to disclosure is tricky business because everyone involved will react in their own unique way, over time.
Will revealing the affair accomplish anything? Yes. It is not likely to be what any one individual intends though. Some good things happen to some people, and some very tragic things happen to others.
I'm always thinking in metaphors. I see a highly controlled web that you and the OW spun during your affair. It's huge and sticky. Other people have and will get caught in it now. The OW's husband is very close to it. Everyone in this web ends up struggling to find their own way off. In a way, it's like every man, woman, and child for themselves in spite of intense trying to save each other.
I guess my perspective now 7 1/2 years after d-day is that no one in this vast experience can ultimately control anything other than their own survival intent and attempts at healing through it.
I wish you all healing from this.
RW
This message has been edited by Red--Wolf on Aug 22, 2006 4:31 PM This message has been edited by Red--Wolf on Aug 22, 2006 2:40 PM
There is right and there is wrong. Not telling him is wrong. It is time to do what is right, BUT, not for the sake of revenge. It should only be done for the right reasons. Does your wife care about being an upstanding person with morals and values? Does she live by, or at least believe in the Golden Rule? If your wife was in his shoes, would she want him to tell her? If the answer is "yes", then she should definitley tell him. She needs to set aside the revenge aspect and approach this with a clear morally right head on her shoulders.
I am a stonch advocate of always telling the BS - Why? Because I am a BS and I believe:
One should do to/for others as he would want done to/for him
A marriage should not hold secrets, it will only make things worse in the long run
I think the ONLY reason people fear telling the BS is the intantanious pain brought upon that person (the BS). It's called adversity and without adversity in your life it will become a very shallow life. Not to say adversity is something one should try to seek out but this is life and life will have adversity. The question is - What role will you play in adversity? Will you do the right thing or will you do the easy thing. Their marriage deserves the right thing.
This is all just from my perspective but I hope you can read this and take from it what you feel it is worth, not what I feel it is worth. I am dealing with my my wifes affair based on what I have written and what I have written has been influenced by many on this site. I ask that you agree or disagree with me so I can evaluate or even re-evaluate my own thoughts.
I think it's pretty clear that we are all here to console, vent, get advice, etc. so i would like to thank you and everyone for listening to me and giving their views as well. It has helped me survive.
In answer to your implied question, the affair has been over for over a year and during that time no contact has been made. I seriously don’t believe she got away scot-free. The OW received a phone call from my wife warning her that any contact with me would result in my w3ife telling her husband. To my knowledge neither one of us has even tried to make contact. However, my wife showed up at least on activity that the OW was at just to let her know that that my wife is a real person and not some faceless being.
As for me protecting the OW, and I admit I liked her as a person, but I really don’t want to see her husband go through the pain because my wife and or I told him. H2C has said he will find out eventually. Fine. I just don’t want it to be US delivering the news.
As for how, “Angela how focusing on the OW is helping your marriage?” It isn’t. In fact I think it is making things worse. She seems fixated on the subject to the point that whenever we should be focusing on ourselves the OW becomes the factor that disrupts and nullifies everything. To use your analogy, she scratches the sore so often it never has time to form a scab.
As for protecting our marriage, I am concerned on what the fallout could be. I gather he is an Alpha male with a quick temper. I would rather spend my time being selfish and working on our marriage than looking over my shoulder. However, I think I may not have a marriage if my wife can’t get her revenge. It is sort of “a her or me” thing with my wife and I already am pissed that the OW has that much control over my wife.
STD’s are not an issue in this affair. It was and has been checked out.
”Angela can call the OW and have her tell her H ...and then the H can call Angela if he wants to verify the story.” Interesting idea, but how would my wife know if he was told if he did not call. If the situation were reversed I would not call, because a confession like that would not need a confirmation.
I do not profess to know what's best for the OW’s husband. I agree that speculating on future emotions and actions due to disclosure is tricky business. Not only will everyone involved react in their own way but there is know way to predict what those actions will be. If he is made aware of the affair he will surly suffer. My role in his pain is obvious but why should my wife or I bare the responsibility of insuring he suffers it.
I only profess to know what is good for me and maybe for my wife. The only thing I am sure about is that informing the husband will not help us go forward. In fact I am worried that any form of revenge will have a negative effect on our ability to keep our marriage together. I have already put an enormous amount of stress in our lives and I am afraid her need for vengeance will add additional stress. We already look at each other differently. Revenge will again change our view of each other. Her view will change if I do not cooperate and mine will change when I see the vengeful satisfaction in her eyes. Some how I keep thinking this will end up like a Doran Gray or a Foust story.
You said, “It's like every man, woman, and child for themselves.” That appears to leave out couples. If I didn’t want to stay with my wife, I would not be writing this response.
I am responding to you with trepidation because I have read enough of your writing to know what your beliefs are.
The Golden Rule appears in one form or another in all the major religions of the world. At its core the Golden Rule in whatever form holds the promise of a life of peace and good will. My wife and I do believe trying to live by it but as people of free will we make choices that down the road may prove to be wrong. I have also learned through these choices that there are shades of gray whether we like it or not. Most people I know believe lying is wrong and some believe it is a sin. However they all tell “white lies” to spear other peoples feelings. Would you tell someone you don’t want to associate with them because you believe them to be a liar and a cheat (even if it was only on their income tax)? Would you really want to hear that from someone else? At the other extreme you are on this site because of an affair. Does the Golden rule give the BS the right to go have an affair?
Believe me when I say I am not trying to pick on your beliefs. I am only trying to point out that there is more to faith than the golden rule and its perceived morality. I say this because I believe my wife’s desire for revenge is rooted more in “an eye for an eye”, and my lack of support has more to do with “He who is without sin cast the first stone.” I screwed up badly, does that mean that in trying to regain my “moral” compass I should cause even more pain and suffering? Should I support my wife’s vendetta because both the Bible and our society believe in crime and punishment?
Telling the OW’s husband is neither right nor wrong. What it is, is an action filled with consequences that will undoubtedly result in additional actions and consequences.
My wife has deep religious and moral beliefs and standards and my affair has stretched them almost to the breaking point. Right now all she sees is “an eye for an eye.” My code of conduct, obviously no longer moral, does include compassion and forgiveness. Humans make mistakes all the time. It is the compassion and forgiveness that take the greatest effort. It requires an understanding of the motivations, the actions, the consequences, and the ability release the hurt and pain that was caused. In my experience and observations it is the release of the pain and hurt that is the hardest. If my wife and I are to go forward we will need to forgive each other and ourselves. An “an eye for an eye” seems to me just one more hurdle to over come in the forgiveness process.
I ask you to what purpose does telling the OW’s husband further our healing process.
You are right; I am sort of "pushing" my beliefs on you. That was not my intention but after re-reading what I wrote I see what I have done. Although I do feel if I just sympathize with you and say "do what you feel is right" doesn’t necessarily help you.
I do support you and I do sympathize with you, after all we do share a common emotion - pain.
I would like to go back to the golden rule for just one second, what I like about it is that there is flexibility in it. "Do to others as you would have done to you". That rule does not state to do what is "right". I know that doing what is right is subjective. Not only did I not make that clear in my last post I actually stated that telling the OW husband is the right thing to do. That’s because I allowed my personal situation to sway my thoughts on your situation. My personal situation involved a time in the affair that IF I would have told the OMs wife the affair would have stopped dead in its tracks and about 8 months early. I would like to apologize for letting my personal situation have an influence on my post.
Back to the golden rule - "do to others as you would have done to you" If you would not want to know and/or you are close enough to the situation and you think it would be better to not tell him then you shouldn’t. That is living by the golden rule. You are doing to him as you would have him do to you. Again, I let my personal emotions and personal situation get in the middle of your situation, I shouldn’t have done that.
You said something I really like:
Telling the OW’s husband is neither right nor wrong. What it is, is an action filled with consequences that will undoubtedly result in additional actions and consequences
You are so right with that statement; it's up to you to filter out what the actions and consequences will be.
You asked:
I ask you to what purpose does telling the OW’s husband further our healing process.
I don’t know that it does. I think it may help their marriage though. Again, it helped mine, my wife and I now have a good relationship with the OMs wife. Not a close one but we can all talk about the affair and share our emotions and pain just as we all do here. My wife and I also now have some better insight on the OM and what he is really like and what he is capable of regarding possible revenge on his part. I have information on him that could protect me and/or my wife later. Basically we have a better understanding of him through her.
Whatever your beliefs are, I hope that you and your wife do what is right for you.
"You said, “It's like every man, woman, and child for themselves.” That appears to leave out couples. If I didn’t want to stay with my wife, I would not be writing this response."
You missed my point.
I've been watching this process in my own life now for over 7 years.
Couples going through this can not share the same experience. They have their own. The experiences are too different for each spouse--the wayward, and the betrayed.
Please don't feel bad. I think most of us BS's can relate to how you feel. You are still very new to this and it is understandable that you are consumed with thoughts of the OP. I know I was obsessed with my H's OP for a very long time. In retrospect I wasted a lot of time and energy on someone who has no relevance in my life now.
Obsessing over the OP and their life and what consequences they may or may not have had because of the affair is not going to help you or your marriage heal. There are reasons to reveal the affair to the OPs spouse as have been debated here but your healing isn't one of them. JMHO
I can relate in whole to the revenge aspect of the A as it's only been a month since my D-Day. But the OW in my case had no H, she came on to MY H at a bar, gave him her phone# etc. After that, boom..A. She got mad because he told her he was in love with his wife and didn't plan on going back to see her ever again. She told my H that this isn't the first marriage she's screwed up and probably won't be the last so she didn't care one way or the other what it did to me and she definatly wanted him to suffer, so when I called her, she told me lies to make things worse and to make sure I kicked him out and divorced him. Well her lies didn't work and yes I know it takes two to tango but I'm glad to the fact the truth came out and he DID tell me. But it doesn't cloud the fact that I have had to hold back emotions on wanting to go up there and kick the .....well you know what I mean. We need to be strong I know, thats why my H and I keep reading and posting here. BE Strong Angela...we have to help each other! GOD BLESS
This message has been edited by CC60 on Aug 23, 2006 8:01 PM
Each of us has our own view on things. In this case I think the decision to tell or not tell is not a moral one, it's simply a decision that has to be made by the people involved in the situation. What's right for one person may not be right for another. After all, only the people who live in the house know what goes on in it. Plus, they are the ones who have to live with the consequences of the decision that is made. I don't believe "not" telling has anything to do with whether Angela is moral or upstanding. She has to make the choice that helps her in her healing process.
As for my opinion on telling or not telling the husband. I think there are arguments for either way. If the husband is told there could be all kinds of fall out. He could be angry with you and seek revenge. And the revenge game could go on for a long time. Do I think he deserves to be told? For health reasons, yes I do. And if Angela feels she must tell him, then I think she has the right to do that. But if it's for revenge on the OW then I have to wonder if it will be worth it after the deed is done. It could potentially bring the OW and her husband back into your lives. Most likely the husband will believe any lies the OW tells him.
Angela, I don't think the OW is living the normal life you think she is. She has to be living in fear that you will tell her husband. She may not be remorseful for what she did, but I'll bet you she views you as having the upper hand more than you think she does. That's not a very peaceful existence. Been there, done that.
I don't think there's any right or wrong here. The answer (to me) is what the two of you decide furthers your healing process. The rest of us can only share with you what worked for us.
Angela, please don't feel like you let anyone here down. We are here to support you and throw ideas out there. But ultimately you have to decide what will help you move on. I wish you could see yourself as the beautiful woman that we see.
Angela wrote >>I feel like I have disappointed everyone<<
Faggettabowdit. We're all big boys and girls. I doubt anyone will judge you no matter what you decide.
It seems to me that you have a difficult decision to make. There's the question of whether you have the right to tell the OW's H about his wife's affair but .... there's also the question of whether you have the right not to.
I don't know how you might feel about saying nothing. Does that make you part of the conspiracy of silence ... a kind of co-conspirator? Or does that make you generous and kind for wanting to protect others from pain. As GT said, those kinds of questions are not easily answered.
Some day, it may be very important to you that you answered these kinds of questions yourself, in your own time, and without being unduly influenced by anyone else. I know that was important to me.
Angela's WS wrote >>I ask you to what purpose does telling the OW’s husband further our healing process.<<
You know what they say ... there's your healing, there's Angela's healing, and there's the healing of y'all's marriage. Each of you are the expert on (at most) two of the three.
It took me a good six years to get over a searing hatred for the OW.
She was and probably still is a "friend' of my XH's family. I TRIED to accept that. It was impossible for me to do a few yrs. ago. The dissonance my brain went through drove me nuts. And not for one teeny weeny second do I feel guilty for the feeling of hate I had.
But thankfully the feeling is gone now, and so is the the desire for revenge.
Negative feelings are just that-feelings. And having them doesn't mean a damn thing about who you are as a person.
Ask yourself this question- What will be the consequences be in ten minutes, ten months or ten years of telling?
"Reading that made me cry. I feel like I have disappointed everyone, all of you guys, my husband, and even myself for feeling the way I am feeling."
It was not my intention, Angela, to make you cry. I am sorry.
As Q mentioned we are not a judgemental community, feelings just ARE - but feeding negative feelings is not as quite conducise as channeling this energy into positive thinking.
GOD BLESS