Good luck tomorrow Jean, and hopefully there will be no more delays. I know you have been worried about what might be said at the trial. Just know whatever it is you will be able to handle it because you have to. You are a strong woman Jean. Let us know how it goes.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Mar 20, 2007 10:18 AM
Major physical reactions to being there. I was really nervous when I got there. It was supposed to start at 11 a.m. but was a whole hour late. It went throughout the whole afternoon -- until about 4:45 p.m. and I got hypoglycemic and felt like I was going to throw up and pass out. Unfortunately, there were not even any vending machines in the building.
I was the only observer in the whole courtroom. All others were witnesses and had to leave the courtroom until they were called. During a short break, the ex introduced me to his girlfriend outside -- it was hard for him not too, I suppose, since the hallway was narrow and we had to pass each other a few times.
The three witnesses for the prosecution were adamant in their answers that the ex was the man that individually they had all seen, at different times, in or coming out of the women' restroom. And they had individually picked his photo out from a group of photos.... etc.
On the otherhand, the ex's attorney did a pretty good job of defending him. But his proof and argument wasn't airtight. It could go either way.
The only thing that was really triggering was when his girlfriend got on the stand and was being asked questions about their sexual life. She said that he was a complete gentleman and sexually "normal" in every way -- never asking her to do anything weird, and she hasn't seen anything deviant about him. No, she's never known him to be deceptive, either (duh...he's good at it). I was trying not to squirm in my seat and jump up and say "I'll tell ya what this guy is really like! We had a very unhealthy sex life, and he's had a raging sex addiction! He lives in his own little fantasy world!"
But I didn't.
Now we wait for the verdict. It really could go either way. The part that freaked me was that the witnesses were all 3 100% that the ex was the guy who did this. None of them waivered whatsoever.
Now, if he's found guilty, should I then look into supervised visits?
A part of me wants to take his girlfriend aside and tell her the man that I know. She actually seems like a nice lady. I can see a bit of myself in her.
"Now, if he's found guilty, should I then look into supervised visits?"
Yes. It won't affect his visitation with his children and it may keep them safe and in a healthy environment. Just be aware (and I have seen it happen) that the court could decide on somebody other than who you decide to supervise the visits - ie one of his friends (female or male), a relative of his.
If he is found guilty you likely know that he isn't capable of determining right from wrong (ie walking into a female washroom is inappropriate and wrong) and that would be enough for me to determine that my children should be supervised while with him.
On telling his girlfriend.....hmmm honestly at this point she likely will not believe a word you say. Would you if you were knee deep in love with him? Would you back at the beginning of your relationship?
I think if she can't read the red flags from the trial then no matter what you say she will just ignore anyway and assume you are the vindictive ex.
Yeah, I know, Kid. Of course I didn't and wouldn't do that. Just venting all the thoughts and emotions that were going through me. First time that I met one of his girlfriends (uh, after the divorce, anyway) -- and it was under strange circumstances. The whole thing was surreal, even though I knew it was coming for quite a while.
So the ex goes thru girlfriends like... water thru a sieve. Yeah, so that part was hard -- seeing another one of his while I have not had any significant others at all because I'm so busy with the kids, etc. Yeah, I've had some dates but no SO's.
Yeah, that part still hurts. I felt a bit like an outsider today. I wish I had someone to care about me.
I hear ya Jean. I wish I had somebody who cared about me too!!!
Tomorrow I leave for Toronto and my doctor's appt with the Chief of Neurology at St. Micheals Hospital. Tonight is hard for me too....i'm scared and i'm all alone. Sometimes it would be nice to have somebody to hug me and tell me it will all be okay. They may have to do a spinal tap, and I dread the thought of going through that kind of pain by myself, but I must push forward and fight off the lonliness since that isn't the most attractive feature a woman can offer, now is it lol
My mom.....nowhere to be found and keeps forgetting I am even going away. My friends are too busy with their family and their lives - and I can't say that I blame them because if I had one I would be too.
K
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Mar 20, 2007 8:27 PM
(((Kid))) (I know we don't do a lot of hugs on this forum -- but I just had to...)
I'm sorry you're all alone tonight. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers, okay? I've heard of a spinal tap and it sounds painful, but I don't really know the procedure. Will they give you some type of anesthetic? How long will you be there?
When you're able, come back to the boards and tell us how it went.
"but I must push forward and fight off the lonliness since that isn't the most attractive feature a woman can offer, now is it lol" I know -- it's like a Catch-22 -- we're supposed to play it cool and strong so that we can eventually find someone nice to lean on ... right?
Don'tcha just love it when you hear someone say "I don't know what I'd do without my husband/wife/SO." Welllllllll so ya don't know what you'd do, huh? Well, Kid, we can tell them what they'd do, can't we? They'd keep breathing, and they'd keep putting one foot in front of the other, every day, because there is nothing else to do. It's either that or curl up and die. And yeah, sometimes it can be lonely, but, hey, aint' life a bitch? Now I'm usually okay with my choice to put my kids first, and I do know that if I REALLY wanted a man that I could go out and find one just to have a warm body by my side.... And I have had a few men want to continue seeing me, but they just haven't been good enough to integrate into my life and my family at this time.
Yeah, I'm usually okay with all that, but occasionally the injustice of it all with the ex gets to me. Just when I'm face to face with him, like today.
((((((((((((((((kim)))))))))))))))))))
You are never alone my friend, never But I am so sorry youa re going through this. I will be thinking of you tomorrow.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
I booked a ticket for We Will Rock You - Queen the musical for Thurs night......something to take my mind off my troubles I hope. I hear it is supposed to be good and I got a second row seat in the mezzanine so I should have a decent view.
Funny...the people that should care about my trip and if I am going to be okay are the people who don't give a rat's ass (ie my family, in particular my mom) and the people who support me are people that I have never met or met once in my life! I really do appreciate it.
I haven't been on much lately because I have two tests this week, yesterday and tomorrow, but just wanted to say that I'm sorry your going through all of this with your ex. I also would want supervised visits if he's guilty.
Kid
I'm also hoping your tests go well. They wanted to do a spinal tap on me in the hospital a few months ago and I told them no so they didn't push it. I know you probably have to. My neice with the MS symptoms had one too. They thought because my neck hurt that it could me meningitis but I knew it was from that car accident last year.
I just talked to the detective who handled the case. I wanted to ask him what the judge might give him if he's guilty and.....
OMG. There is a fourth woman who has accused the ex of being in a different bathroom on the fourth floor (the floor that the ex works on, I think). He said that there had been "rumblings for quite sometime" that a man was going into the women's restroom. There is a new charge filed against him. OMG. When I heard this, I let loose a little bit and told him that one of the main reasons for our divorce was the ex's involvement in pornography. I told him that I was concerned for my kids and he said that "it does not look good." He said that if I would have told him that during the trial that they "almost definitely" would have a conviction. I told him that I wanted to stay out this particular case and that the ex was already pissed at me because I didn't necesarrily believe his innocence and woudn't be a character witness for him.
The dectective is going to keep in touch with me.
I'm feeling rather sick to my stomach, so we're going to go out and take a walk.
I am glad you went to the proceedings. So you tell me..did the prosecutor prove the case enough to you? If not 3 women? 4 women? 5 women?
You have at least hinted at y'all's sex life was not conventional. You have a daughter who doesn't want to be around him alone. You have 3 women and now maybe a fourth coming forward he did something so disturbing they were willing to sit in a witness stand.
If you were on the jury and had no stake in it...what verdict would you come too? Is that the only witness he had...his g/f? What would his previous g/f's have to say. They are an ex for a resason. It can't be all their fault. If it is your EX has a lousy judge of getting g/f's. If I was a prosecutor I'd talk to them. Did those women seem like liars to you?
I am confused in what you what to happen Jean. A not guilty verdict or the that your EX might have a problem?
No offense intended. I know you are scared. I just don't know what you are scared of? What is it gonna take..a video tape of him walking in and out of the restrooms?
Warms Regards,
Tex
This message has been edited by TexMac64 on Mar 21, 2007 7:20 PM
"So you tell me..did the prosecutor prove the case enough to you? If not 3 women? 4 women? 5 women?" ... "If you were on the jury and had no stake in it...what verdict would you come too?" See, Tex, I CAN'T be objective in this case, because I know this man and know his past. I think he may be guilty. I already know he's a weirdo.
"Is that the only witness he had...his g/f?" No, he also had a co-worker and his immediate supervisor. "What would his previous g/f's have to say." Interesting question. I know the name of one of them....would be interesting to found out but.... I would be out of line in doing that, wouldn't I? "If I was a prosecutor I'd talk to them." Well, anything they said would be irrelevent to the case, because the charge is criminal trespass. The prosecutor doesn't have to prove motive.
"I am confused in what you what to happen Jean." ... "I know you are scared. I just don't know what you are scared of?" I want the truth to come out, regardless. I'm nervous about that, Tex, and that's why I've been spilling my guts here. There is a LOT at stake here. People may forget, but I have fibromyalgia and I wouldn't be able to work full-time for long if he loses his job and we lose child support. I just got a car and I have a car payment on top of the mortgage, utilities, etc. Plus both children have just started orthodontics that they both need desparately -- our son is about to be scheduled to have 4 extractions and then...what... we lose insurance and I gotta figure out what to do with 4 holes in his mouth. I think somehow I would find a way to get my son thru that, but it's just .... all these details....
"What is it gonna take..a video tape of him walking in and out of the restrooms?" Well, yeah, that would help ... BTW, the defense lawyer did a pretty good job. This isn't a cut and dried case.
And if I don't have any proof that the ex shouldn't be trusted around children, then I have nothing. Allegations don't mean anything legally. Could I be wrong here?
And yes, I'm scared of the possibilty that he may be guilty. Even if he's not found guilty.
I think you are very brave Jean discussing your fears. Alot of folks wouldn't unless it was someone else's family. Something is wrong darlin...something wrong enough its gone legal. If he hasn't done something bad then the higher power(s) must be against him and he is the unluckiest man in the world.
Nothing is more important than the kids being safe. If they have to go without something so be it. Let them be mad or whatever the PC thing is nowadays. Being without is better than something being taken away...and hopefully they will never know what that means.
You are a very brave lady Jean. Your gut is telling you something...listen to it.
Jean - how absolutely bizarre. I just don't GET what he was doing in the women's restroom - I mean, I know some people are into some voyeuristic stuff, but WOW. Ick.
What was the defense for him being in there, in the first place???
Time to talk to your case workers with DSS and child support. Your children will be eligible for Medicaid -If he looses his job he can find another - if he is not locked up. Time to talk to your divorce attorney and ask pertinent questions.
Monica, the defense's case is that he wasn't there at all -- that this is a case of mistaken identity. But the guy's got a real distinctive body shape and facial features -- he's black, short, and stocky. And now this fourth woman is coming forward, from another company on another floor??? The detective said she was scared to come forward because this guy "gives her the creeps."
See, on the outside, the ex is mild-mannered, button-down, "Dilbert" type of individual. And he can be charming. But underneath it all is a private life that ain't so private anymore, it seems. I've tried not to speak about this much but I'm wondering if my kids are getting a clue that something is wrong. We've all been stressed and sick lately.
I'd respectfully suggest that your kids get their cues from you, and you have been very nervous about this for several months now. You probably don't hide it from them as well as you think you might.
Kids in general are very good at picking up the mood of the parent(s) they live with.
So if the trial's over, has the jury started deliberating?
There's no jury. I think they call it a "bench trial." The defense asked for a jury trial but it asked too late, apparently. From what I see of the court case online, the defense had been using every stall tactic it could.
Oh... I'm guessing that DSS is Department of Social Services, right?
The prosecution failed to prove its case beyond a resoasonable doubt. However, there is the new charge brought against him by the fourth woman.
I feel weird having information that, according to the detective, may have helped convict him. And I'm confused about that part -- as the prosecution did not set out to prove motive (any deviant behavior), but only the criminal trespass -- was he in there, or was he not.
I still have a sick feeling about it and will call DSS to ask for supervised visits.
Jean
P.S. Just talked to the detective -- he's going to have Children's Services call me. ugh.... this a like a nightmare.... The prosecutor had just said that if he knew then what I had just divulged, he would have asked that I be a rebuttal witness to the ex's girlfriend. Can you imagine what that would have been like. OMG..... I'm not sure where all this is going to end up....
Once Children's Services is involved, there will be hell to pay with the ex.
Jean... and????? think about it - you fault? nope - his behaviors? yupe - so he can vilify you all he wants... you don't have to listen - but you may want to revisit the custody and visitation deal. He is still responsible for the up-keep of his children with or without visitation rights -
The other woman may ask for a separate trial and there we go for a second round and you may be asked to testify...talk with the detective and ask if this woman would consider a separate case.
If you've told the detective your feelings about your kids and their father, he's mandated by law, to report them to DCFS. Whether or not they are "founded", he still has to report them. In IL, all medical personnel (including therapists), school staff, law enforcement agents, social service agents, and even clergy are mandated to report anything "off kilter". It's out of your hands. The reporter is supposed to remain anonymous, so you don't have to tell your ex anything.
Monica
My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.
That photo is about a year old. My hair is somewhat longer now.... but thanks! How could you see anything in that tiny photo, tho?
<<It's out of your hands. The reporter is supposed to remain anonymous, so you don't have to tell your ex anything.>> Thanks, I appreciate that input.
However, if this other case goes to trial, the prosecutor may want to call me as a witness.
I'm wondering.... what would you all do? That's not the place that I want to be, but...if it keeps my children away from unsavory things, then maybe I have to.
If I'm subpoenaed and therefore required to do it, then....it's out of my hands and I can relax a bit. That's better.
The detective left a message for me yesterday saying that he spoke with Children's Services and that apparently it can do nothing unless an overt act was committed. He wants to discuss this further with me, however, which makes me feel better. I checked the court website and read the words over and over "the court finds that the plaintiff ... has not proved the charge against the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore finds the def not guilty...." And then I see, right beside this ruling the other charge for the same thing that has just been filed against him.
I'm trying to sort out my own motivations to try and figure how much of any actions I take are for the safety and well-being of my children and how much of this I may be doing just because I am disgusted by him. I really really want the truth to come out about this man, no matter good or bad. I don't fear the truth, as confident decisions are only made on its basis, but I wonder if I'll ever really have it.
As one of my sisters said yesterday, "Life is stranger than fiction."
BTW, the ex called last night when we weren't home and left a message wanting to know if he could have the childen with him for dinner (celebrating the "not guilty" finding, perhaps). I didn't have a chance to return his call. I don't know what I would have said to him if I had that chance.
He's due to have the children the weekend of March 30th. What's a mom to do? Should I call Children's Services myself? This seems all too big and murky for me to try to figure out on my own.
Talked w/ the detective again this morning and he again said that if he could have let the prosecutor know what I know during the trial, they would have had a conviction "for sure."
Now there may be an attempt at a second trial, but because its for same type of offense, and this time there is only one person bringing the charge against him instead of three, and this witness is not sure exactly when the offense occured, the city has a weaker argument and may dismiss the charge rather than it going to trial. Legally the judge is not allowed to consider past charges when deciding a particular case.
What have I done??? I didn't want to have to get up on the witness stand and attest to his character. I wanted the legal system just to take its course. I thought the prosecution had a pretty good case without me, but .... this is what I learned today-- the prosecution cannot bring up a character witness unless the defense introduces a character witness. Did they not think that the defense might try to bolster their case with character witnesses???? Might they have thought ahead and dug into his past a bit, contacted me as the ex-wife and asked me about his character? Sounds like the prosecution just didn't try hard enough -- maybe they have bigger fish to fry at the moment, but now I'm a bit angry. I want the truth to come out, whatever. Apparently this next trial will not go forward unless I agree to testify as ar rebuttal witness for the prosecution. I want the truth to come out, so I told the detective I'm onboard. I just want to have a face-to-face discussion with the prosecutor and detective before I say a final "yes."
Think long and hard about what you are willing to do and the reasons for doing it. And once your decision is made, don't waiver.. go for it. Make a list of questions before you talk to the prosecutor, be pro-active in your learning. Evidently someone did not do their homework or you would have been contacted before or were you?
<<Evidently someone did not do their homework or you would have been contacted before or were you?>> I was only contacted by the defense to be a character witness, not the prosecution.
Perhaps I should have taken up the ex's request to be a character witness and brought the house down then.
No, I don't think that the prosecution did a thorough job.
Still trying to get to work....
J
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Mar 23, 2007 10:00 AM
I knew it was not correct but too lazy to check LOL...