I found out by accident---photos. He says he was drunk (3 times) and had just lost a family memeber.He says it was only sex---no emotional attachment...is that possible? He has quit drinking and seems truly sorry.
We have cried and talked and cried and talked more. Things seem better. I often find that out of no where I am extremely hurt again as if it were "the day" all over again.
We have made love and I am the one who initiates it. I feel the need to be with him after we have a talk and we cry.
I don't understand these feelings. I am so hurt and at other times I want to be with him. We have begun "dating" again.
Will I ever be able to trust him again? Are these feelings of wanting to be with him one minute and hate him the next normal?
Any guidenace would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the club no one wanted to join Linda.

That need for sex...that's known as hysterial bonding...kinda like reclaiming what is yours. It might last a long time or it might not.

Now this is where it gets tricky. You want to believe them. Let's say he was drunk all 3 times. Why was he around her drinking after the first time and the second time? And heck what photos? Was he drunk then too?

I know if you told him what I just said he'll get pissed, ticked, hurt you don't trust him. Let him. He was drunk the first time. Ok. So You go back drunk the 2nd time. And a 3rd time. Was he sober during any of this time to think of what he was doing?

The drunk excuse works once. And even that's BS. You sober up and realize what a horrible mistake you made. You don't get drunk again and yet again let alone take photos. He lost a family member..so why didn't her turn to you? Its just sex. He coulda had just sex with you. Just sex help him forget who died?

I am afraid you are just at the beginning of finding the truth. I also know if you question him about it he'll act pissed and well he is being honest and you don't trust him. He'll act like he's hurting and why can't you both just move on. He can do and say anything he wants. You wants actions not words. Only time and consistancy will prove it. Not his timeframe. Yours.

If he has a drinking problem then demand he seek help. Was there an issue before he cheated concerning alcohol? If there was that should be a dealbreaker for you. He can deal with his addication first before trying to save y'alls marriage. If he didn't have a problem...well that's his excuse. He still needs C.

I know you are reeling right now but its important you make you the priority, not him. What do you need? Think about it. Tell him. Then pay attention to what he does and says. Doesn't sound right now he's had to do much other than quit drinking(unless he has a problem) and have sex with you.

What you are feeling is completely normal. Its called a rollercoaster ride from hell. He needs to do everything he can to be completely honest with you. No...oh well..there was a 4th time I forgot about, no I didn't think you could handle it. Don't be surprised if it goes alot deeper than what you know. There seems to be a unwritten book on that...we had sex 3 times and it lasted only 2 to 6 months.

Right now..its about you because I bet you are wondering what you did wrong that he went elsewhere in his time of grief. You didn't do anything wrong. He chose too do it not once, not twice but 3 times..at least.

He needs to earn your trust back and that means being honest. That means checking if you want too at at any time his cell, computer whatever. He is already downplaying it like poor me I was hurting so be prepared to hear crap that makes you feel guilty for asking. Don't by into it. You will want too and probably will at the beginning. Then it will hit you. And you will realize you deserve better than this.

Take care of you and and pay attention to what he does to fix things that actually take some effort over time. Not a few days or weeks..but months or yep..years.

I know I said everything you didn't want to hear. But I've been on both sides of this and rarely if ever does a BS get the complete truth immediately. It dribbles out.

Work, exercise, if you need help sleeping seek it, get some food you can keep down.

He needs to win you back...not the otherway around. Think about that. What do you need? He will either do them or he won't and probably bitch and whine and moan and stall in the middle.

You might not realize yet because of the shock and pain but he has alot of work ahead of him and believe me..he doesn't either.

One of the hardest thing at the beginning is BS dealing or finding the truth and not what WS tells them. It meant nothing. It was just sex. You didn't do...insert reason. I was lonely. Through it all...listen to your gut. You will never fail yourself if you just listen.

Check out the helpful links section at the top of the home page. There's alot of good info in there thanks to our forum owner.

He earns trust back...with things he shouldn't have any problem with you verifiying. His word is shit right now.

Step back, take a deep breathe, realize the world does not revolve around him and if it does then why do you want him? The world is alot bigger than that. Make a plan what you need, want, expect and heck...a dealbreaker. Such as if you catch him in a lie, whatever it might be.

I am sorry you had to find us but you found a good place to be. Whatever you are feeling..its ok and its normal and you ain't alone.

Tex

P.S. My typing sucks and so does my spelling.

Um.... Can't add much to that. GREAT post, Tex!

The only thing I would add is to keep in the back of your mind that much of what you're going to go through is the NORMAL experience of dealing with affair recovery. If you take the time to read through some of the archives, especially on the Discovery forum, you'll see quite a bit that will look very familiar. Sometimes, you'll read a post there and think, "I could have written that".

Three healings will be taking place:
1. Your healing
2. Your spouses healing
3. Your marriage healing

The marriage CAN be healed, I and some others here are living proof of that. But, it WON'T heal without the other two happening either at the same time or before you work on the marriage.

Focus on YOU at this point,
Cory

"Do nothing which is of no use." Miyamoto Musashi

Thanks for the thoughts. I have so many feelings and questions at this point I don't know where to go. I found this site by accident and already the posts and my responses were helpful.
We are 30 years married and a part of me says that is a lot to throw away--but I also refuse to just take it.
You gave good advice about ultimatioms (SP) I told him to tell all because if I find out more he is out of the house. He says I have nothing left to know. I don't always believe him and I have told him so.
I want what we had back and I hate the rollercoaster ride---I want it to go away but I know that the ride is long.I don't understand why I often want to be with him sexually and sometimes I can't stand him in the same room as me. We talk about it when I choose and he says he hates it because he wants it to go away but I am in charge here and whatever I say goes. He says he will talk about it everyday if that is what I want and if that is what I need.
Thanks again and feel free to offer any advice you have.

welcome Linda -

nothing to add to the above posts - great job Tex, Cory.

Read all you can - post often - it is a long journey.

Wishing you peace and the strength to find it.

And as you walk you make your path Kat

I am at the point now (again) where I am as angry at HER as I am at HIM.
I know where she lives and works and I have in my mind sent the pics to her boss and her husband many times. I want her to feel the pain and uncertainity I have been feeling. My husband and I work everyday at this---I have access to all his phone records.I am looking forward to the day that this is not the first and last thing I think of everyday.I am also waiting to have just a "regular" day without the hate and distrust....I am told this will come.
Thanks again

Hi Linda,

Welcome. Tex and Cory passed on some good information for you to think about. You mentioned you've been married 30 years. I discovered my H 2 affairs 3 days before our 30th anniversary. You're right, that is a lot to throw away. If you are like me you probably wondered how he could risk throwing it all away. I imagine he probably didn't think your marriage was at risk. My H told me that he had never stopped loving me during the affairs, he didn't think he would get caught, and he never imagined it would be so totally devastating to me if he did. Truth is, they were not really thinking of us at all, just their own gratification for whatever reason.

I too hated (hate) the OW and had pictures (and e-mails) I could have shared. I chose not to. Sometimes I think exposing them to their husbands would have given me some closure. A little justice so to speak. I chose not to for a variety of reasons so I will never know. I am not saying that you should or should not do this, just think about what you expect it to accomplish and the possible fall-out from it.

I also understand the feeling of wanting him one minute and hating him the next. It can make you crazy but just know that these are normal reactions.

Take care of yourself and don't be afraid to keep posting, asking questions, and venting if need be.

Angela

Angela--thanks for your words
I must ask--if I may---what has become of your marriage? Where are the two of you? How did you get to where you are?
I have thought many times what good would it do to hurt family and children which is why I have not sent the pics. I must admit I did email her and ask her where she would like them to go...she never did respond...she did call my husband and ask him if I was really going to send the pics. My husband told her he didn't know and at this point he didn't care,,,,he was trying to save his marriage--and never call him again.
He says he knows he was/is an idiot and the booze did the talking....he says he is not blaming me AT ALL but he felt he and I were drifting. He says that is no excuse but that is all he knows. He says now he realizes how stupid and how much he can loose because I still don't know what I am going to do. I have so many up and down emotions and as I said it is not an easy decision after 30 years.
Thanks for your input it really helps

Linda,

It is 21 months past d-day and my husband and I are still together. I have to say that the first year or so I lived with one foot out the door. In the beginning there was shock, hurt, screaming and anger on my part, and crying on both of our parts. My husband was remorseful pretty much right from the start (although I didn’t get the truth about the second woman until 3 weeks later because he said he just couldn’t add anymore to the pain I was feeling). My husband was in a pretty bad place in his life at the time, which is how the affairs started. (My story is in the Members area from July, ’05--THE WEEK FROM HELL, and HERE WE GO AGAIN--if you are interested.) It doesn’t excuse what he did but sheds some light on how he could do what he did.

At this point I think we will make it together but we are nowhere near “there” yet. We did go to joint counseling for about a year. It helped us both. It really helped my H see some of why he did what he did and continued it for so long. We eventually got to the point where I didn’t feel I was getting anything out of it anymore. I tried individual counseling for a short time and although the counselor was very nice, all he ever did was agree with me and sympathize. I have just begun individual counseling with a female counselor. I can already tell after 4 sessions that this is different.

I’m glad your husband said he is willing to talk about it whenever you want to. I needed to talk about it a lot and my husband and I spent the first months after d-day talking and crying all the time. (And having sex! Hysterical bonding is something else. You want him, you need him, and then you hate yourself for it!) We talked about what I needed from him to rebuild trust too. Open communication, transparency, needing to know where he is, what he is doing, access to all e-mails, password to listen to cell phone messages, you name it. I already got the cell phone records from the time of the affairs. Funny story—when I called the phone company to get the past phone records they said they charged $5 for each month. When she found out how many I wanted she gave me a discount. I think she knew why I was doing it and felt badly for me! Anyway, the most important thing was No Contact with OW whatsoever. I didn’t think that was really going to be a problem after what I did. After finding out about the second woman, I called both of them. I told them that I knew everything and not to contact my H by phone, e-mail, in person or whatever. If they did I would contact their husbands and tell them everything and share with them the e-mails and (for the first one) the pictures. They were never to be heard from again!

We also began “dating” like you say you have begun to do. We found we were so wrapped up in the demands of everyday life that we had not made time for ourselves to just have fun together, at least not enough. We began going to movies, bowling, miniature golfing, playing pool, going to dinner, shopping, etc. While that all sounds good I have to tell you that in the beginning “having fun” was very hard to do. Just smiling for a while felt like a betrayal to myself. Not to mention if we drove a certain route I experienced triggers or if we went somewhere they may have gone I’d trigger. Something he would say while we were out would trigger me and I’d get upset. It took a very long time for me to “allow” myself to laugh again and enjoy myself with my husband. Time does help and I can now truly enjoy doing things again with him.

The trust has returned for the most part. He has done everything he can to help rebuild it. I have checked and rechecked over time and from what I can tell he has been above board and honest. I know though that I will never be able to trust him 100% again. That bothers him a lot but I just can’t put myself in that position ever again. He gets it, he just doesn’t like it but knows he has no one to blame for that but himself.

He has been doing a lot of other things to show he still loves me and wants to be with me and that has helped immensely. When he was out of work for awhile, he would get up and make my lunch for me and he is NOT a morning person. He buys me flowers (from the grocery store) but flowers none the less and he does it often. I never asked for this but he knows I enjoy them. He gets me cards for no reason. He rubs my feet at night. He used to rub my back but never my feet so this is a big deal to me. And feels soooooo good. He spends time cuddling on the couch with me. He kisses me when he leaves the house and when he gets home. We talk about what is going on in our lives and how we feel about things—not just affair related things. We are reconnecting with each other.

Even with all he has been doing I still have had a difficult time letting go of the affairs and the hurt and anger. I think we reached a turning point when I saw what my reactions were doing to him. He got to a point of feeling helpless and that everything was hopeless. Like nothing he did or could do could ever make things right again. I had really beaten him down. Was that my intention? I don’t know. I did know though that I had to do something or this would be it. I’ve been trying real hard to keep a lid on the destructive feelings and keep them to myself. This has helped him but I ‘d turned that anger inward and it was eating me up inside which is why I started counseling again. I hope I can learn to deal with it in a healthy way and get rid of it.

Linda, I don’t know if this is what you really wanted to hear but it is what it is, at least for me. In some ways our relationship is better than ever, but we are not “there” yet. I know that if I can ever get to the point that I can FORGIVE him, we will have made it. Until I can truly get over the hurt I will not be able to forgive. I’m working on it. The fact that others say it is possible is what keeps me going.

If you ever want to chat let me know. I’ll give you my e-mail and phone number. Sometimes it helps to actually talk to someone. I don’t know about you but for me I really had no one to talk to about this till a kind, albeit crazy person from here stepped in and called me. I don’t know if he realizes it but he helped my husband and me a lot.

Angela

Linda and Angela,
I haven't posted for quite a while because I thought it might be good to take a break. However, your situations are so similar to mine I feel the need to respond.

In 2005 my husband went to Florida to search for our retirement home (we were married for 31 years at the time). He began an affair with his realtor. So from January 2005 to July 14, 2005 he spent 2-3 weeks in Florida remodeling our retirement home and 2-3 weeks in KY with me - basically living a double life. I accidently discovered the affair through his e-mails. I had no clue. Affairs happen to other people - not to people who have been married for as long as us with three grown children and one grandchild.

Although he was remorseful and begged for my forgiveness I was not moved. I had been the anchor in our marriage. Even though I have worked full time most of our marriage ( I'm a math teacher), I was also responsible for raising our children and most household responsibilities. My husband was very selfish and self-centered. In my mind, this was the last straw.

However, on the advice of our counselor, family, and friends I decided to wait 6 months before filing for divorce. My husband overnight became Mr. Wonderful. For the past 20 months he has done almost all of the cooking, he cleans, takes out the garbage, and has become the husband any woman would want.

Am I myself yet? no. Four months after the discovery of my husband's affair he confessed that he had had another 6 month affair 10 years previously. He Knew I would leave him for sure if I knew, and he wanted time to prove to me he could be a deserving husband to me.

I, like you Linda, have always viewed the glass as half full. However, infidelity changes who you are forever. My husband, like Angela's knows that I will never trust him 100%. It has changed how I view our past years together, and I have to tell you it is the first thing I think of when I wake up and the last thing I think of when I fall asleep. Every day does get a little better, but we are not healed yet.

I just recently began individual counseling with a woman I really like. She is helping me process some of the bad feelings I have.

You will never know for sure if you're making the right decision staying with your husband. I still second guess myself. My toe is still in the door. This site, in my opinion, is the best. Even though I haven't posted often, I have read and learned so much. I am so sorry for what you are going through.
Chris

Chris,

Hi. There really does seem to be a lot of similarities between us. We've been married roughly the same amount of time, I also am a teacher, and I have been trying to deal with this for about 21 months now. Things have gotten better but, like you, it is the first thing I think of when I wake up and the last think I think of before going to sleep. I too started seeing a counselor again (about 4 weeks ago) to deal with some of my feelings. I guess for some of us we can only go so far on our own and then we need help.

Sometimes I wonder how much the length of time the affair went on makes a difference in the BS recovery. In my case it was 2 women over the course of about 13 months. He ended one and started right in with the other. It seems to me that a ONS or 2 or 3 times with someone would be easier to deal with. I realize it is still a betrayal and would be very difficult, but the longer the affairs go on, the more "stuff" there is to deal with and have to learn to accept and the more triggers, etc.

Thanks for posting. The further away from d-day I get, the harder it is to know if what I am going through and feeling is still "normal". Most of the people that came here about the time I did are no longer around posting so it is hard to tell.

Godspeed on your recovery.

Angela

Angela,
I do think the length and type of affair makes a difference. His first A started as a one night stand, but he kept her name and number and reconnected.

After I found out about the most recent A, he kept saying, "I've been thinking about having an A for 10 years." And I would say so you've been good for 10 years and I should congratulate you for waiting so long.

After I found out about the second A, I realized what he meant was - I had an A 10 years ago and ever since I've been looking for an opportunity to have another. It made me think that 1/3 of our marriage was either him having an A or sizing up women as possible candidates.

Thoughts create feelings and I really try to not have those negative thoughts. My counselor is really helping me, but even she has said, "You have a lot to forgive."

Tonight we're going to my daughter's house for dinner. I'll have lots of fun with my grandchildren. I'm trying to focus on the present and build new good memories - but it's so hard when we(you and I) didn't do anything wrong.
Chris

Angela and Chris--
I can't tell you how much help your stories have been to me. You do think you are alone and then you read a story and it is "your life"---It really helps to see how you got thru it.
We talk about it whenever I want and he says he hates talking about it,he says he is embarrassed but will talk if it helps me. I find myself wanting to know all the details and I worry that I am opening Pandora's box but I can't help myself. I thought we were best friends and I don't understand why he needed her. He swears there is no emotional ties and it was sex while drunk. He says they would drink,chat and flirt. He still says it was only 3 times with this one woman............I want to beleive him and before this I had no reason to doubt him. He was in the past always where and with whom he said. I found that on good days I do believe on others I don't believe when he tells me his name....
We are going away this weekend upon my request because I felt the need to connect and talk without distractions. I felt as if we are going backwards instead of forward. I must admit at the time it sounded like a good idea but now I feel like I am not sure I can be in the same room with him.....
I read the posts from others and draw from their experieneces ---they have also helped me to ask certain questions of him and myself....I am hoping that this weekend (if I can stay in the room with him) will bring out ALL the truthes and we can really move forward. I sometimes have this nagging feeling that he has something left to tell. He swears I know it all but past post from others remind me to listen to my gut and often the other shoe does drop after some time.
I hope this post makes some sense and I appriciate having somewhere to go ....
Thanks

Linda - for awhile, you will take one step back and two steps forward. That's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Something totally unrelated may trigger you and send you for a loop! The important thing is to remember that you're making progress, however little.

It's a positive thing that your H is willing to talk about it! I'm glad you're posting here and you've found some very similar stories. We're here to help.

Monica

My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.

Linda,
I will help in any way I can. However, the bulk of the work will have to be done by you and your husband. I totally understand what you mean about being in the same room with him. Sometimes at night I'll be curled up with a book reading and my H will be at the other end of the room watching tv, and I'll glance up and think, "Who the h*** is he?" How is it possible to be married to someone for so long and not really know him.

What is real? What is fake? My H said to me that he felt that life was passing him by, that he was no longer attractive to other women, that I would never find out. He repeated over and over, "it was just sex - it didn't mean anything."

You do develop a 6th sense through all of this. Suddenly, I had this tremendous feeling that this was not the 1st time he had had an A. One night I poured most of a bottle of wine in his glass(yes, you resort to any means) and said that maybe if I knew the exclusive intimacy of our marriage was already gone and we had been getting along w/o that, I might heal faster. He bought it, and spilled his guts about the A that happened 10 years previously.

You asked about wanting to know details - I wanted to know nothing about the previous A. He revealed when, where, and how long - that was all I wanted. I felt at the time I had to know all the details of the most recent A, and he gave them to me. I'm glad I know little about the 1st one.

On a positive note - you've gone through the very worst of it. However, as everyone has told you, don't get upset with yourself if you have one pretty good day and the next 2 are awful. That's how it goes. Again, I am so sorry.
Chris

Morning all--
My husband and I went away for the weekend and it was wonderful and everything I remembered before this rollercoaster from......... He has been true to word,where he was suppose to be and reacheable at all times. He is not drinking and life should be going along smoothly.
There have been up and down days for me but none like yesterday. We were having dinner, cleaning up and catching up on each others day. The evening was going well.........then BAM!!! I felt like I had been hit by a truck. I have no idea why or what, but I felt like I was at day one looking at the pics and wondering why he did this to us.
It's 12 hours later and I feel like I just found out!!!! I found myself sleeping in the family room on the couch again. The same questions and doubts are back. I generally feel like what is done is done and let's move forward but now I find I want to ask the questions again---- I want to hear the answers. On the good days I do believe him and on bad like yesterday I want him to feel the pain I feel.....This emotion is a surprise to me as I am generally not vengeful....
My husband is willing to talk but says he much prefers not to because it reminds him of his mistakes and he would prefer not to relive that part of his life. He says he realizes how much he has to lose and is deeply sorry and is willing to do whatever I want to move forward. I don't know what will help go forward.....


Any personal experiences that could help me understand this would be so appreciated.

It sounds like you are asking about triggers that just happen out of no where, total surprise and no ready explanation for them. Well for me they seemed to happen because we were doing well for a few days then it would cross my mind that life could have been like this forever if only my wife hadn't had sex with another man. I would get a glimpse of what life "should" be like and then it would hit me because by experience I knew that the roller coaster ride wasn't over yet. I resented the roller coaster ride in the first place and it was like I knew the good or reasonable feelings weren't going to last. Upon facing that reality, it's as if I summoned the bad feelings back all by myself. Thus unexplainable triggers immediately following good times or feelings. Did any of that make sense?

I noticed that it was mentioned several times in this thread that a betraying H says that "it was just sex, it didn't mean anything". This is the way men express the sex situations in affairs most of the time. Women betrayers will most often say "that the sex didn't mean anything, that it (the affair) wasn't about sex, it was about how he made me feel". This is the simple difference between men and women. The problem is-------men and women can't be in each other's hearts and minds to understand what the other gender is really expressing when we give those explanations above.

Statistics say that men can't handle being betrayed (end up divorcing) as well as women can and that it is because men realize at some point that their W betrayer was emotionally attached to OM before and in order to have sex with him. Women at least 50% of the time can stay married to their betrayer H because she might eventually believe her H when he says that "it was just sex and it didn't mean anything". Generally, women have to be emotionally attached to a guy before having sex with him. Men, OTOH, do not have to be emotionally attached to have sex with a woman but having repeated sex with the same woman can get a man emotionally attached to her. This is a simple explanation of how it works most of the time and there are exceptions in both genders. I'm an exception male as I can't have sex with a woman unless I'm invested in her emotionally. I'm certainly not suggesting that betrayed women have it easier than betrayed men, no way. I'm just trying to give some insight to the gender explanations that keep popping up.

I think a self-protective instinct is at work when we trigger.

I think our subconscious minds tell us "whoa...can s/he be trusted?"

And of course, our conscious answer is "I'm not sure".

Only with the passage of time and a lot of reassurance can that change.

Just as it's the WS responsibility to be open, so is it also the BS responsibility. Your interpretation of the subconscious signal is "I've got to hear it all again". It's not that you need to hear it again, it's that you're unsure again...address your real need.

Be open with your H when you're triggered, let him know that you want and need extra reassurance at those times. If he is willing to give it, your route to healing is easier and faster.

If not, you have hard questions to answer about your relationship.

Chris.