Well, I only read the first one but I agree that 19, 18, heck even 24 are too young to marry. I think there should be a law that you can't marry before 30, LOL.
I certainly married too young at 20, almost 21 and we both grew into very different people with completely different interests.
We started when we were 14 years old, actually I was 13. We're now 50 and I wouldn't trade any of it. The trials, the kids, the careers, the strife, the joy, the traditions we've built, the traditions we've carried on, the family events, our family, that life itself is "us", that I am what I am because of her, that she is what she is because of me. All of this because we started too young? I am proud and she is even more proud. You should see our pictures when we were 14. Heck she was taller than me! That we drifted apart into our forties, that we have come back together so strong, so passionate as we enter our 50's. It's all almost too hard to believe. Too good to hope for. God, I love her more now than when we married at 21. I know, without a doubt, she does too.
I'm wondering? Would you trade your Mom because you started too young together? Your Dad? Your brothers? Sisters? You know, when my Dad died last fall I thought about if I could choose a different Dad. I really though a lot about it. All I could think about was all the good that he was. I cannot fathom having anyone but my Dad as my Dad.
Not trying to be obnoxious but isn't much of this what we choose to make of it?
You know I've often thought about this; what would be different with someone else? In the end sex is really no different, is it? If you try to please each other it can be wonderous, right? If you would rather be thinking about your grocery list would it matter who was on the other end?
As for others, surely they would NEVER be selfish would they? They would always consider your needs 1st, right? Taller? Shorter? Skinnier? Bigger? Smaller?
What is it that you're actually asking? What is this REALLY about?
Isn't this really about ourselves? What can we make of our relationships from what WE put into them? What could we have in return for ardent oneness? For undying commitment? For come hell or high water?
I chose her, and she chose me. With all her faults and all of mine. Options, are just not an option for us. I say (and so does she); Until the end of time my love, until the end of time.
Let's start over and give me the option of anyone else, any other, the most georgeous woman that I could choose, I'll choose EXACTLY as I did then. Not one doubt, not one compunction, not one hessitation. She was put on this earth for me and I for her.
Sorry to be so sure, but, you know what? I am.
IIC
This message has been edited by IfICould on Jun 3, 2007 11:30 PM
But you know what? I think you do deserve someone so ardently committed to wanting you! I hope you find him!
I think we all deserve a "life" mate. I'm learning that many just don't want to have to work for it. I find that somewhat disheartening. I thought everyone wanted that.
So many of you have had ex's that have been down right cruel. It makes me feel really bad and I wonder just how prevalent it is? It must be pretty bad.
I think maybe the reason people feel that they should have waited was so they might have learned to be a better judge of character. I'm so lucky I never had to endure those feelings.
For those of you without I hope you can find someone you can entirely pour yourself into and that you will be rewarded with the same level of effort. Heck, it's not even an effort!
Well, I can certainly say that I would not have chosen my ex if I had to do it again - without a doubt. My best bet is that none of us who have divorced would say they would.
I have learned a great deal by being married to someone that selfish and that addicted and I've now experienced men who are very unselfish and decent. I am thrilled to have two wonderful children from him but I would not have chosen him again had I known that he would turn out like he did.
I feel pretty strongly about your questions so I'll be happy to answer them.
"You know I've often thought about this; what would be different with someone else?"
For me? I would stay away from men with dysfunction in their families. Yes, for me it would be very different if I knew back then what I know now. I have learned a lot about selfishness and addiction and all the signs I had when I was dating him. I should have noticed those signs but I was too young to understand it all. I would not end up with someone like him again.
"In the end sex is really no different, is it?"
Sex is completely and utterly different with someone that I respect and I'm not sure I ever had that in my marriage. Although I thought sex was pretty good with my ex, it wasn't as good as it could have been and I know that now that I'm dating a man that is giving me everything I need in a relationship.
"If you try to please each other it can be wonderous, right?"
My ex did try to please in bed but I still didn't feel the same way. I lacked respect for him and that must have changed things for me.
If I could go back in time, I would look for someone exactly like the man I'm dating right now.
"might have learned to be a better judge of character"
I suppose that is what I was saying with my ex. I would have known some early small signs that would have told me he was selfish. I ignored some real tiny signs and some not so tiny when we were dating.
Charlie
This message has been edited by charlie288 on Jun 4, 2007 12:16 AM
IIC, there is a hint in your comments that some of us wanted to "trade away" or "trade up" our first spouse, or that our lives to this point mean nothing. Hardly. I simply believe I was married too young, and too soon in that relationship, and I didn't consider all the possibilities very well.
You had the advantage of entering your marriage knowing quite a bit about your wife and her family. I had no such knowledge and in retrospect, I rushed into marriage because I wanted to begin building a future with my wife. I wanted a partner in a settled married life and my wife seemed to be the right person at the time when that desire was strong in me.
In other words, I think my motivation and desire were generally good, but I had what turned out to be unrealistic expectations of her. Not unrealistic in general, but unrealistic expectations of her. Unfortunately it took ten years or so of marriage to surface those issues, and several more to get to the point where we realized we needed help to resolve them.
I know without a doubt that choosing someone who can and will build open and honest two-way communication and cooperation is the most important prerequisite to a good relationship. I learned the hard way that nothing else in a relationship really matters to me. The necessary give-and-take is built on communication and mutual understanding.
"I know without a doubt that choosing someone who can and will build open and honest two-way communication and cooperation is the most important prerequisite to a good relationship. I learned the hard way that nothing else in a relationship really matters to me. The necessary give-and-take is built on communication and mutual understanding."
Funny Chris since I went on a few dates with a guy like that and there was nothing there. He was sweet, he was open and honest, liked to communicate and had great respect for me - unfortunately he was so boring that I found myself yawning and starring out the window of the restaurant 30 minutes into dinner.
So well I think those things are an important part of a relationship, they aren't enough to make a great relationship.
IIC - thanks! I hope it's mine turn sometime soon too I'd love to have kids, but that may never happen at this rate.
"He was sweet, he was open and honest, liked to communicate and had great respect for me - unfortunately he was so boring that I found myself yawning and starring out the window of the restaurant 30 minutes into dinner."
Kid
I think you are right about needing some fun in a relationship. I have to tell you that I wasn't certain about the man I was dating at first because I was very weary after my last relationship that I figured the more I knew, the more I would find that I didn't like but the opposite thing has happened with this one. He is the most interesting, affectionate, communicative, sweet guy I've ever been with and man is he FUN, both with the kids and without. I think fun is very important in a relationship. He also isn't scared to death to talk about our future together. In fact he talks about it often, which threw me off guard initially. I hope you will meet someone like that too. I don't think I've ever felt so secure and loved in a relationship.
"IIC, there is a hint in your comments that some of us wanted to "trade away" or "trade up" our first spouse, or that our lives to this point mean nothing. Hardly. I simply believe I was married too young, and too soon in that relationship, and I didn't consider all the possibilities very well."
Gees, I sure did not mean that Chris. You have to remember, you're speaking with someone who is totally ignorant when it comes to relationship "experience". How could I have any knowledge of what it means to be with someone dysfuctional, or heck, even anyone else not dysfuntional?
I was very fortunate not to have chosen someone who was inherently selfish. I say that because I think we all go through selfish phases. Including me, you and all the rest of us here. I think it's likely to be our core values that always bring us back to being a "caring" person and not taking advantage of another.
I think it can be said that each relationship creates a "collective" if you will. It is either kind and caring or dysfunctional (and probably somewhere in between). When the core of the relationship is mutually caring and never too one sided I think its probably much easier to navigate these waters. Again, I've been most fortunate in this regard.
One of my brothers is so self centered that he is simply incapable of participating in any kind of mutual relationship. They simply require too many compromises. Gosh, I hope none of you ladies have EVER come across him. He seems to delight in being openly selfish and he wonders why he's alone at 48 years of age.
"You had the advantage of entering your marriage knowing quite a bit about your wife and her family. I had no such knowledge and in retrospect, I rushed into marriage because I wanted to begin building a future with my wife. I wanted a partner in a settled married life and my wife seemed to be the right person at the time when that desire was strong in me."
You are absolutely right! We were married 7 years, to the date, that we officially started "going together". She's sentimental that way. The "rush", if you will, was long worn off.
"In other words, I think my motivation and desire were generally good, but I had what turned out to be unrealistic expectations of her. Not unrealistic in general, but unrealistic expectations of her. Unfortunately it took ten years or so of marriage to surface those issues, and several more to get to the point where we realized we needed help to resolve them."
Hmmm, I'm having a little trouble relating to this one. I'm not sure we had any real expectations of each other besides maybe a fanatical commitment to one and other. Even when neither of us were deserving (which, BTW, never happened at the same time). We always looked at life as being "us against the world"
"I know without a doubt that choosing someone who can and will build open and honest two-way communication and cooperation is the most important prerequisite to a good relationship. I learned the hard way that nothing else in a relationship really matters to me. The necessary give-and-take is built on communication and mutual understanding."
Frankly, I'm not sure we REALLY understood this (communication) until we were much older. We just accepted things as they were and kept plugging away. Maybe we just had it better than most. Even though my career demanded lot's of time I never lost site of my number one endeavour in life - Her. It took us until the last 2 years to really start asking those kinds of questions. I don't know, it was about the time the kids were gone. Maybe, for us, that's when we said "is this all there is?" We must have been terribly ignorant. Maybe ignorance really is bliss? I do know we were both really lonely.
I have no answers beyond me and my lady and I'm not too sure about those answers either. I just know that I didn't make a mistake and I know she feels the same way. We talked about this discussion last night. We both went away from it feeling very secure and cared for.
I'm also not placating when I say "I feel bad for those who don't have what we do", I mean it. I just can't imagine going through life without her beside me and I know she feels exactly the same way. For me (and her) it's just like the end of "For Love of the Game" with Kevin Costner when he says; "I just want you to know, that I know, that I need you". Not because we "NEED" each other its because we WANT to need each other.
So, please do not be offended. I am a neophite when it comes to this game and, in all honesty, I'm ok with that because in our world, it's just her and I!
Just yesterday I was discussing "the space between" as crucial in a relationship. By that I mean the "relationship space" outside of each person, but shared by both, where the commitment to creating a good life together lives.
Like you, I believe that when at least one person is giving "positive" to that space at any time, it can carry the relationship through difficulties. Like you, I believe that each person goes through some questioning and doubts from time to time but the relationship is carried by the other person at those times, and that these roles flip from time to time.
But when one person is negative or angry for an extended period, or when both turn that way at once, the marriage is a goner.
I've known a lot of couples who married very early - my parents, both sets of grandparents, my best friend, lots of my friends. Really, it's about split down the middle on those who made it and those who didn't.
My parents married at 17 and 18 and were divorced 18 years later. My grandparents eloped when they were both 18 and were married the rest of their lives. My older brother was married at 19 and divorced by 22 - he and his ex are great friends. In fact, our extended families all do things together (my ex SIL and her H along with their kids, my nephews, my brother and his GF and her son) and sit together at ballgames. We get strange looks sometimes!
Chris - you made a good observation about the space between. My BF and I were talking about "us" last week. I think it's imperative to remain who we are, and stay individuals - but to forge an "US", too. We were talking about lighting unity candles at weddings... I think it's bizarre that the two candles are snuffed out after the unity candle has been lit! What happened to those 2 people that those candles represent?! They're still there, they are just part of a unit - the marriage.
Monica
My yesterdays are all boxed up - and neatly put away.
