I have not posted in such a long time. I just wanted to let everyone know how I was doing. Me and my WH separated two weeks ago. I am having the "Separation Blues" but I am doing Ok I think. Trying to stay strong, especially for the kids.

After several drug related incidents and WH's continued lying, I decided to ask him to leave. He made some surafce changes, but nothing inside of him changed and I felt he never truly got it. I also found out that he lied on d-day 2 right in from of my IC and the kids, and never had any intentions of quitting drugs...said he thought with all the other changes he made I would be happy and that eventually I would just accept the drugs. I told him it is obvious that he made his choice that day, that he chose the drugs over his marriage and his family, and therfore never had an intentions of trying to make it work and asked him to leave. I said if he was lying about the drugs what else was he lying about? At first he said he wanted to work it out and lets try MC again. I said no. I said I have given you chance after chance and until you stop using I want you to leave. Once his addiction was threatened and he saw that we were at an impass he had no problem packing up and leaving on his own.

Honestly, I am still in shock that he would choose drugs over his family and our marriage but he has. He says he hasnt, but he is an addict, and they use any justification they can, especially when they are still in denial that they have a problem. He thinks I am being unreasonable, lol. He thinks I should just accept the drugs because he is not cheating anymore, even though the drugs were a BIG part of the A and they are illegal. How do I know he's not cheating anyway, because he says so? And whats to stop him from cheating in the future if the same basic behavior ahs not changed? And we all know how he keeps his word! I told him that too...that I really needed him to keep his word about quitting drugs in order to rebuild the trust and he didnt, so of course I dont trust him...but I am being unreasonable!



~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Cal, I was unreasonable about the very same thing! But, couple pot with an "old friend" and it was time for him to go.

It always amazes me what lenghts people will go to and what they will give up, for drugs. Well, really addiction, really. My ex said the same thing about him not cheating, again. I told him that we'd already been there and done that and that his word wasn't worth a lot to me.

How are your kids handling it? Take care of yourself, I know how much it sucks to work at reconsiliation only to find out (in my case, 2 yrs down the road) that it was all an exercise in futility.

Monica

"I have all I've waited for and I could not ask for more"

"Honestly, I am still in shock that he would choose drugs over his family and our marriage but he has"

Carol, mine lost his over lying and porn.

You were right to do what you did. He's an addict and there is nothing you can do but protect yourself and your children. I feel bad that is had come to that. Hang in there. It does get better (well until you date someone - only kidding there)

Charlie

One night I found WH's stash. Lets just say if he got busted he would be in jail for quite some time, as it was much more than "personal use". Anyway, I took it. He didnt even miss it or so he says. If he really didnt miss it than that means it was the back up stash and not the stash he was currently using. Well, that is neither here nor there...the point is he risked his family and didnt think twice. He lied to me yet again and didnt think twice. And he acts like he has done nothing wrong and he is the victim becausee I cant forgive him for the A and accept the pot. So a few days later I gave him the stash back and asked him to leave. He put the stash in his pants and headed for the door, excaliming "we'll talk about this later. I have to get to work". I said nope...there is nothing to talk about. He came home from work in the middle of the day to get his things. And that was that! That night I cried my eyes...I couldnt believe he chose the pot over me and the kids. But what I realise now is that something was always more important than me and the kids...his cousin before he died, his friends, our business, pot, politics, religion, the customers, the OW, his motorcycle...you name it, it was more important. So why am I so shocked? I dont know!!!

Yesterday after school he came to see the kids, as it is his day off. He took us all bowling and then out to eat. We all had a nice time. After the kids went to bed and it was time for him to go he asks me if I want him to leave, and I said yes. He said he would like to come home. I said I have not asked anything more of you than I asked on d-day 2 and you agreed to. But you chose to lie and you chose the pot over your family and marriage. I said when I gave you back your stash you should have flushed it down the toilet, told me you wanted me and the kids instead of that shit, and then gotten yourself into a recovery program. Instead of flushing the weed down the toilet you flushed your marriage down the toilet. He said that wasnt true, that he loves me and the kids and wants to be here for us. I said had you been caught with that stash you would be in jail...how is that being there for us...how is that showing your love for us? Even when you are here physically you're not here mentally or emotionally...you are high and off in LaLaLa land!!! And with that he was gone...said he was tired. I bet he's tired...tired of hearing the truth!!!

He is now living with the local homeless drunk in one of our vacant apartments. A few months ago I caught him getting stoned with him after the cops called me and I couldnt get a hold of him....I unexpectantly showed up at our business after hours. I aksed him to leave right then and there but he refused to go. It took me a while to uphold my boundaries but I finally did it. And ya know what, Im ok. I have good days and bad days but overall I am ok.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

"He lied to me yet again and didnt think twice. And he acts like he has done nothing wrong and he is the victim becausee I cant forgive him for the A and accept the pot."

Carol, every addict does that, mine did that stuff too.

"That night I cried my eyes...I couldnt believe he chose the pot over me and the kids. But what I realise now is that something was always more important than me and the kids...his cousin before he died, his friends, our business, pot, politics, religion, the customers, the OW, his motorcycle...you name it, it was more important."

I felt the same way. Too much alcohol, computer games for hours, pornography, his job, etc. My counselor (who was well versed in addictions) said that these men are often hiding behind all these things because of traumatic issues in their childhood. Mine had the super control freak mother.

"After the kids went to bed and it was time for him to go he asks me if I want him to leave, and I said yes."

I know it is hard but that was good answer. Because you have taken him back so many times, he just believes you will continue to do so.

"He said that wasnt true, that he loves me and the kids and wants to be here for us."

I'm not sure an addict even knows what love really is.

"And with that he was gone...said he was tired. I bet he's tired...tired of hearing the truth!!!"

At some point I suspect you'll get where I got. I got to the point that I didn't even argue anymore because the same argument happened every time.

"And ya know what, Im ok. I have good days and bad days but overall I am ok."

I'm glad your okay Carol. Have you begun planning your future yet?

Charlie

<<Have you begun planning your future yet?>>

LOL, not yet, but my IC said the samething to me I suspect when the shock wears off, I will get on with my life. I think there is a period where you grieve your old life, before you start the new one....and you have to kind of catch your breath...take one more deep breath, and let it out (and let go the rest of the way)...then prepare to move on. I feel I am in that process right now. I know soon the good days will out number the bad and I see the light at the end of the tunnel. All positive stuff! I feel I am on my way...but I know there will be road bumps....and I will get past them and keep moving forward.


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Hi Cal, sorry to hear that you're separated, but I fully understand what you're going through. It's a long hard road you've been down and I know you didn't want it to end like this. Like several others here, my ex was also an addict. The denial, both his and mine, are astounding to realize when I look back in retrospect. I think that's why it's so hard to set boundaries and keep them. You're not really sure what's "real" and what's not.

Speaking of boundaries, are you really sure you want him in the house now that you've asked him to leave, even if it's to visit the kids? You mentioned he's living with the town drunk (oh the stories I could share...do these guys do anything original????) but could you have him visit the kids at Grandma's or another relative's house rather than giving him access to yours? Just another way to drive home the point of what he's really giving up and what the future will look like.

I know that in your past posts his family knew some of the story of the A and drugs, but not all of it. How are they processing the separation? That can often be a mine field, especially if they have a stake or share of the business.

Take care of yourself, keep the course, but make sure your ass(ets) is covered (LOL).

Hello Misha,

Thank you for your post. Yes, it has been a long hard road and I know it isnt over yet. We are only separted, not divorced. Not sure what is going to happen, but a lot depends on WH. He knows exactly where I stand and what he must do if he wants his family back. If he gets into a recovery program and is serious, who knows? But right now I am not counting on that happening. I am going to live my life with the assumption that he's not and that he is going to continue being active with his addiction. The plan is to get processively more restrictive. This is more for me and the kids. I dont want too much to change for them so quickly...give then a little time to adjust as we go along. We have been together for so long and this is not easy on me at all either and as you know, not what I wanted. If I do file for D, I will certainly go with your suggestion about him picking up the kids at his moms. I will want as little contact with him as possible. Thank you for the good advice

My MIL just found out Friday night and I have not told her my side of the story yet. I am not looking forward to it. I know she will try to manipulate me into taking her son back. I just want to make sure I am ready emotionally for that. Chances are that tomorrow will be the day! I see her every Friday...she watches my youngest while I am at work. So it will be unavaiodable

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Is this the Carol that used to be "Pizza Lady"?  I've just skimmed this thread, but your story seems very familiar.

Jean

Jean, Carol/Pizza Lady is gone from the boards.

Chris.

Jean,

You would be surprised how many stories are just like mine....where drugs/alcohol played a big part in an A's and divorce. Addictions are a terrible, terrible vice. Even if you can heal from the A and forgive, if the same basic behavior that led to the A has not changed then chances are the WS will cheat again. If nothing changes, then nothing changes....sad to say

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Cal, I'm sorry it has come down to this. I know that you gave your marriage and husband every chance to make it. You've put up with a lot over the years. There are good years ahead. You will be happy again and now it will happen for you faster.

Wish you well,

H2C

Please seek out a Naranon group in your area. There is nothing surprising about your husband's response. Below is our mantra for dealing with an addicted loved one.


10 Things every family member should know:

1) Do learn the facts about alcoholism and drug addiction . Obtain information through counseling, open AA/NA meetings, and Alanon/Naranon. Addiction thrives in an environment of ignorance and denial . Only when we understand the characteristics and dynamics of addiction can we begin to respond to its symptoms more effectively. Realizing that addiction is a progressive disease will assist the family members to accept their loved as a “sick person” rather than a “bad person.” This comprehension goes a long way toward helping overcome the associated shame and guilt. No one is to blame . The problem is not caused by bad parenting or any other family shortcoming. Attendance at open AA/NA meetings is important: families need to see that not only are they not alone in there experience, but also that there are many other families just like theirs involved in this struggle. Families will find a reason to be hopeful when they hear the riveting stories of recovery shared at these meetings.

2) Don’t rescue the alcoholic or addict. Let them experience the full consequence of their disease. Unfortunately, it is extremely rare for anyone to be “loved” into recovery. Recovering people experience a “hitting bottom.” This implies an accumulation of negative consequences related to drinking or drug use which provides the necessary motivation and inspiration to initiate a recovery effort. It has been said that “truth” and “consequences” are the foundations of insight and this holds true for addiction. Rescuing addicted persons from their consequences only ensures that more consequences must occur before the need for recovery is realized.

3) Don’t support the addiction by financially supporting the alcoholic or addict. Money is the lifeblood of addiction . Financial support can be provided in many ways and they all serve to prolong the arrival of consequences. Buying groceries, paying for a car repair, loaning money, paying rent, and paying court fines are all examples of contributing to the continuation of alcohol or drug use . Money is almost always given by family members with the best of intentions, but it always serves to enable the alcoholic or addict to avoid the natural and necessary consequences of addiction. Many addicts recover simply because they could not get money to buy their drug. Consequently they experience withdrawal symptoms and often seek help.

4) Don’t analyze the loved one’s drinking or drug use. Don’t try to figure it out or look for underlying causes. There are no underlying causes. Addiction is a disease. Looking for underlying causes is a waste of time and energy and usually ends up with some type of blame focused on the family or others . This “paralysis by analysis” is a common manipulation by the disease of addiction which distracts everyone from the important issue of the illness itself.

5) Don’t make idle threats. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Words only marginally impact the alcoholic or addict . Rather “actions speak louder than words” applies to addiction. Threats are as meaningless as the promises made by the addicted person.

6) Don’t extract promises. A person with an addiction cannot keep promises. This is not because they don’t intend to, but rather because they are powerless to consistently act upon their commitments . Extracting a promise is a waste of time and only serves to increase the anger toward the loved one.

7) Don’t preach or lecture. Preaching and lecturing are easily discounted by the addicted person. A sick person is not motivated to take positive action through guilt or intimidation . If an alcoholic or addict could be “talked into” getting sober, many more people would get sober.

Do avoid the reactions of pity and anger. These emotions create a painful roller coaster for the loved one.
For a given amount of anger that is felt by a family member in any given situation, that amount-or more-of pity will be felt for the alcoholic or addict once the anger subsides. This teeter-totter is a common experience for family members—they get angry over a situation, make threats or initiate consequences, and then backtrack from those decisions once the anger has left and has been replaced by pity . The family then does not follow through
on their decision to not enable.

9) Don’t accommodate the disease.
Addiction is a subtle foe. It will infiltrate a family’s home, lifestyle, and attitudes in a way that can go unnoticed by the family. As the disease progresses within the family system, the family will unknowingly accommodate its presence. Examples of commodation include locking up ones and other valuables, not inviting guests for fear that the alcoholic or addict might embarrass them, adjusting one’s work schedule to be home with the addict or alcoholic, and planning one’s day around events involving the alcoholic or addict.

10) Do focus upon your life and responsibilities.
Family members must identify areas of their lives that have been neglected due to their focus on, or even obsession with, the alcoholic or addict. Other family members, hobbies, job, and health, for example, often take a back seat to the needs of the alcoholic or addict and the inevitable crisis of addiction. Turning attention away from the addict and focusing on other personal areas of one’s life is empowering and helpful to all concerned .

Each of these suggestions should be approached separately as individual goals. No one can make an abrupt change or adjustment from the behaviors that formed while the disease of addiction progressed. I can not over-emphasize the need for support of family members as they attempt to make changes. Counseling agencies must provide family education and programs to share this information. They must offer opportunities for families to change their attitudes and behaviors. The most powerful influence in helping families make these changes is Al-Anon/Naranon . By facing their fears and weathering the emotional storms that will follow, they can commit to ending their enabling entanglements.

The disease of addiction will fervently resist a family’s effort to say “no” and stop enabling. Every possible emotional manipulation will be exhibited in an effort to get the family to resume “business as usual .” There will always be certain family members or friends who will resist the notion of not enabling, join forces with the sick person, and accuse the family of lacking love. This resistance is a difficult but necessary hurdle for the family to overcome. Yet, it is necessary if they are to be truly helpful to the alcoholic or addict. Being truly helpful is what these suggestions are really about. Only when the full weight of the natural consequences of addiction is experienced by the addict- rather than by the family- can there be reason for hope of recovery .

Good stuff Intervention42.

I wish I had understood more about this before it was too late. What I mean by too late is in reference to how far I went into accommodating the disease over a 14-year time span with an addict. I basically did everything this list says not to do. Then I wondered why everything kept going 'wrong' and why there always seemed to be an unusually high level of chaos of one kind or another in the family and extended family.

Looking back, it was so insidious like a snake in the tall grass.

It certainly did progress. In the end, I left that marriage. He found another person to fully accomodate and participate. That was the affair. 'Business as usual'.



RW

I am a member of NARCANON online. Thank you so much for posting this...it is GREAT info. The enabling part is very hard for many to understand...and the funny thing is everything you posted can be used in realtion to an affair as well, not just drug/alcohol addiction. My IC is also an addictions counselor. I feel I am in good hands and getting stronger, less enabling, and sticking up for myself (more and more) and learning to carry on with my life. Again, thank you for posting

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

This is not meant to trivialise addiction in any way, but I wanted to say thanks for the posting above, because although my H is not an addict (at least, not a chemical one) and his 'issue' is more mental health, I have found the hard way that almost all of the do's & don'ts above are needed by me too. I have accommodated and allowed & made do and wondered why things got worse instead of better - and everyone around wondered why the H&&%^&*(* I hung on so long and couldn't see what they could. When you are 'in' it, it's so hard to see out...

Thanks again

C

"My IC is also an addictions counselor"

I'm glad to hear that. I think seeing an addictions counselor was very helpful to me too, much more than any other counselor.

Charlie