I have been following all the postings on this site in regard to SCDA, Troy, Dave, Dan and Lou.

It appears that you people just want to go back to the old days where everyone and every auction house just stated what they wanted about the item, and damn those who disagree.

Is that what you prefer? Would you rather SCDA / MEARS, Troy, Dave, Dan and Lou just fold up and not do anything anymore in regard to authenticating?

Do you really think that would be better?

Would you prefer PSA/DNA, Spence, GAI, and others quit too?

Would this make the hobby better or worse?

There are not a lot of people out there in this hobby that have the expertise that the people on this site think they have, and whether you like it or not, what SCDA / MEARS, Troy, Dave, Dan and Lou are trying to do is a lot better then doing nothing at all, which is what it appears you want to happen.

SCDA / MEARS, Troy, Dave, Dan and Lou get some things wrong, but they are quick to correct these if shown why. What other authenticators do that? Do you?

Would you do a better job of authenticating, would you want the constant bombardment from the self appointed experts on this site? Do you want to stand up and put your money where your mouth is?

Go for it people. Your constat whining about a few things is really getting old because you don't want to do something yourself but call the kettle black.

All you people do lately is sit and whine about this or that. Put up or shut up.

Let's hear from the whiners.

I will do something! The same thing I have been doing for years! I could care less if something has a letter. I personally am buying an item, not a letter. Where did that "expertise" come from??? Was it a college degree or a specialist program like brain surgery? No, it is time and devotion to research! I consider myself an expert in some areas. I think some of these authenticators have taken for granted the name they developed for themselves to make a "quick" buck. Any one on this board has the intelligence to determine the authenticity of an item, with time, research, and using others to come up with an accurate assesment. So, my answer is YES, I wouldn't have a problem with all the "authenticators" going away, and all of us niche experts taking over. I choose to be take the lead in the items I collect; they bring a lot more signifance to myself when I do my own research! The alternative is to be trained like a monkey and take orders by following the "industry leaders." No thanks! Ask yourseld if you are buying the letter or the item that is masked by the letter. A letter is only worth as much as the person that wrote it, and many of those "letter writers" are looking pretty worthless write not. But that is just my opinion!

Thanks,

Chris Boyd
Houston Sports Investments
http://www.eGameUsed.com
________________________________________________
Specializing in GU Astros Equipment & Autographs
713-385-1155
ccboyd@houston.rr.com

Chris,

I understand what you are saying, but what about all the people who would like to collect some item of memorabilia and do not have the expertise that you state you have?

Should these people just not collect?

There are thousands of collectors that do not have the time or expertise to investigate every item they may want, what should they do? Just take the seller's statement as fact? There will be a lot more bogus items coming into the market and being sold if that is the case.

Let's get real. Maybe some of you investigate every item you want to buy, but what about the many others that don't for whatever reason?

If they go away, so does the business, as it has been doing.

Easy for the users of this board complain about mistakes, but at least SCDA / MEARS are trying to do something to help all the uninformed collectors that don't have the time and expertise that is required to acquire authentic memorabilia.

Sammy - - - - - I thought your post was a joke at first - - - but I realize now that it's not. Sorry if our "whining" is upsetting you. - - - - We don't want to unsettle you or cause you any disturbance - - - - in fact, that is my number one goal in life: DO NOT UPSET OR ANNOY SAMMY IN ANY WAY. Oh, and so sorry about that gun to your head that is forcing you to read these outlandish posts that question the "experts." - - - - - - What we are asking is that the experts do their jobs in a responsible way and with integrity and honesty. We are asking that values such as due diligence, honesty, accepting and fulfilling responsibility, and striving for excellence be placed higher on the value priority list than making a quick buck at the expense of collectors. Making a quick buck at the expense of collectors (and insulting our collective intelligence along the way) appears to be what drives your buddies (aka, the experts). You don't see this - - - - and I am sorry for you. Perhaps you will wake up some day and someone who understands the industry and the fraud that plagues it will point out to you that half or more of your collection is actually bad (though you have your precious fancy letters stating that everything is authentic). Perhaps you will never wake up. - - - - - Whahhh Whahhh Whahhh - - - - sorry, just can't stop that darn whining. Best of luck, Sammy!

G.V.

I have noticed a lot of whining from you over the past few months about many things, not just SCDA / MEARS.

You state that you are a concerned collector. Well, what are you doing to help the collectors that don't read this board, or have your "expertise"?

Step up my friend, you can go public and start your own authenticating business. Then we will see if you are able to hold to the creeds you endear.

Sammy - seems like you are the man for the job. You've got a great head on your shoulders, have all of the right connections, and clearly have a valid understanding of the authentication business and the state of the industry. Forget Rocco - - - - Sam-my! Sam-my! Sam-my!

G. V.

Instead of this being your number one goal in life,

"in fact, that is my number one goal in life: DO NOT UPSET OR ANNOY SAMMY IN ANY WAY."

I would rather you start your own authenticating company, and really help all those collectors you are so concerned about and do not read this board.

I said the constant whining was getting old, not upsetting me.

Have a nice day

Sammy - - - - it's a fine suggestion, but it turns out I have a job. I thought about your idea, but I've decided to not quit my job and start an authentication business, as tempting as the suggestion of making that radical life change may be. All kidding aside, I am looking forward to seeing what Dave G. can do with MEARS. You have not read one negative word from me about MEARS or Dave G. (if you have and I am wrong, let me know and I'll gladly correct it as I have no problem with MEARS). I'm a fan of Dave G. and though I think he has more than his fair share of work cut out for him, I've already seen his impact on cleaning up the game used authentication industry. - - - - - I have a lot of problems with a ton of things that the so-called experts or authenticators or gods or whatever you (or they) want to call them. But I'm more than happy to keep an open mind with MEARS and I'm actually quite hopeful that it's going to be better than anything out there (as long as Dave G. is at the helm). - - - - - With that said, I still agree with Chris B., Howard W., BTPH, Aaron, Dan D., Daniel P., Paul S., Rob S., and all of the other thinking collectors on this forum who believe it is best to do the research yourself instead of blindly following the herd and having someone else decide for you if an item is good or bad. There are tons of people who like to do pay a lot of money for these pieces of paper and to have other people do the thinking and make decisions for them. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. But I see that as a lazy, mindless way to go through life. I don't mean that to offend anyone. That's just the way I see it - - - - and I'm not alone, by any means.

In a previous post, it was written "We are asking that values such as due diligence, honesty, accepting and fulfilling responsibility, and striving for excellence be placed higher on the value priority list than making a quick buck at the expense of collectors."

I could not agree more..The reason this shirts in the curent Mastro Auction were relooked is because they were not looked at as they should have been the first time.

I know Troy, nor would anyone, enjoy coming back to a public forum to admit a mistake, but being accountable to the collecting public is paramount. As I posted before, in cases like this:

1. Listen to what people are saying.
2. Respond quickly and openly.
3. Re-look the informtion or process used to form the opinion.
4. If wrong, ensure the collector is not out any money.


I would like to think that the policies for MEARS will address problems like this for future auctions. The first two Auctions we will do are the August Auctions for both Mastro and Vintage Authentics. I would like to thank Doug Allen (MastroNet) and Steve Jensen (Vintage Authentics) for acklowledging the problems associated with listing people for an item that did not look at it. Both have agreed that they will comply with the MEARS policy in this respect for those auctions. The check in the system will be the cataloge writers will be provided with copies of the work sheet that those looking at the item are required to sign. Only the names on the worksheet can be listed.

We were hoping our web site would be up by 1 August..looks like it will be closer to mid month for August. As I have previously stated, if a MEARS employee consigns an item to an auction we work, we will identify those lots as such. If we are not able to list those items on our site, we will list those items here. I don't think anyone would accept the answer that we did not follow our own policy because our site was not ready..I know I would not.

Troy is at a wedding this weekend. I am not so much posting for him as I am making sure there is some feedback on this end.

As far as tomorrow, I don't know how much time I will spend on line being Fathers Day.. I plan on giving some game used items as gifts..Probably some Titleist Pro V 1 golf balls to some good friends; the pond on #3, the creek on # 11 and the woods on #16.

Dave Grob

I plan on giving some game used items as gifts..Probably some Titleist Pro V 1 golf balls to some good friends; the pond on #3, the creek on # 11 and the woods on #16.

Just make sure those aren't Xed out balls you're "distributing"...or you'll be hearing about it

Sammy,
I am President and COO of MeiGray Group.

We are partners with the National Hockey League, American Hockey League, and ECHL. We direct each league's Game-Worn Jersey Program.

We have contracts to market the jerseys of MLB's Texas Rangers, NFL's Philadelphia Eagles, and NBA's Dallas Mavericks.

I will answer your question directly. What we will continue to do is:

1. Sign contracts with these teams and leagues in which the teams warrant that the jerseys we acquire for distribution to the collecting hobby are game-worn by the players whose names appear on the jerseys and LOAs.
You would be surprised how much nonsense stops and how much material is closely examined when the teams sign contracts, reviewed by lawyers for both sides.

2. Meet with these clubs, examine the entire inventory, and educate ourselves before we start marketing so we know what the teams do over the course of the season.

3. Double-check the facts and warranties by researching what the players wore, photo-matching the jerseys we receive (yes, that is very possible, and we do it every day. You'd be surprised how unique and different 6 jerseys with good use of the same player are when photo-examined closely using high-quality digital images and good computer programs).

4. Back every jersey we sell with a lifetime money-back guarantee.

5. In the case of the NHL-MGG Game-Worn Jersey Authentication Program (beginning with the 2002-03 season) and the Dallas Mavs-MGG Game-Worn Jersey Program (beginning with the 2004-05 season), create uniquely numbered security tags with covert features that are sewn into the players' jerseys BEFORE THEY ARE WORN. Working with the team (and checking throughout the season to see that these tags are in the jerseys), this is another step towards ensuring authenticity.

5. Eliminate the need for guesswork, opinions, and other unnecessary secondary sourcework by people and companies that have not seen or examined enough jerseys to offer educated, competent, relevant opinions.

As you probably know, I do not post here often. But I read this Forum regularly, and I am well aware of the problems in the marketplace.

MeiGray does not offer itself as experts UNLESS we have significant expertise with a given team or league's jerseys. In the cases where we do, we wonder why so many so-called Authentication Services that sell jerseys from these teams do not rely on our expertise.

But I can tell you unequivocally that they don't.

But some of the more experienced, knowledgeable, and well-informed collectors, some of whom read and write on this site, they do.

I hope this helps,
Barry Meisel
President and COO
MeiGray

Barry,

As I've posted multiple times before, you guys are the best. I love all of my real (yes, real) Texas Rangers game used jerseys (Pudge, AROD, Palmeiro) - [sorry, I don't have any set 3 jerseys and I don't have any official letters signed by the players - the only thing I have is REAL Rangers jerseys] ... I am begging you guys to sign more teams. I know your main focus is hockey ... but collectors of modern MLB uniforms would simply love it if you guys could sign a few more teams. I know you're trying to do so ... keep us updated!

Happy Father's Day,
Reid

I agree 100% with Reid. MeiGray is fantastic. I have been able to add greatly to my collection of starting pitcher's jerseys, as well as picking up a batting helmet of Michael Young, one of my favorite players. The authenticity of these items is never in question when they are purchased from MeiGray. I really hope you guys can sign more MLB teams...I would be purchasing even more from you. I'm really looking forward to the 2005 Rangers jersey that come in!Happy Father's Day from me, too.

Tim

A rather long post here, but hope all find time to read it . . .

I couldn't agree more with Chris Boyd's and Barry Meisel's posts, and the numerous Howard Wolf and Vikes postings in other discussion headings.

As a collector and small-scale dealer (mainly football) for over 30 years, I never cease to be amazed at some of the stuff that the "expert authenticators" sign-off on in auctions and elsewhere, especially football items. Some of the mistakes are stuff learned in "Basic Football Collecting 101".

While some auction houses have been quick to make corrections (Bricol has never failed to make a correction to an error I pointed out), others have not been as responsive (either would not return calls/emails or turned a blind eye to a mountain of photo evidence).

All that aside, I often ask the same question Barry put forth. Why aren't guys like Barry and others who have owned thousands and thousands of jerseys never asked by the "experts" for assistance? Who sees more jerseys than a dealer?

Having been in the hobby since December 1974, I have had the privilege of making many, many collector and dealer contacts, some of whom have expertise in a particular "niche area" such as Howard Wolf with Phillies items (see Chris Boyd's reference to niche collectors in his above posting). Of all the folks with expertise in these niche areas, I have yet to hear from a single one who has been contacted by the "expert authenticators" for assistance. Mr. Grob, who I greatly respect for his attempts to do it right, has at least four specialty niche football collectors within a stone's throw from his house. I can safely say that three of the four have never been contacted by any of the authenticating services for assistance. In defense of Dave, perhaps he is not aware of these folks. However, not only must one be a meticulous researcher to be in the authenticating business, one MUST know who to go to for assistance (i.e. the niche collectors, as they are the true experts with regards to the niche items they collect).

To answer Sammy's question - YES, the hobby would be a much better place if folks would forget the COAs, LOAs, "experts", and all the other similar cottage industries that pop up in this hobby. If you don't realize what a problem all of this is in the hobby, then look no further than this forum. It is the most discussed issue by far, and just behind fraud/crooks/etc. and negative P.R. as being the biggest problem in our hobby.

For years, there was little in the way of official authenticating services in the hobby. In my humble opinion, these services have added little value since their existence while greatly increasing dissatisfaction among many collectors as evidenced in this forum. In the grand scheme of things, authenticating services have done little to deter crime in the hobby. And don't forget that there are now bogus items floating around out there that have COAs/LOAs because an "expert" messed up. (Hey, it must be good because it has a COA/LOA!) Sadly, the owner may eventually find out the sad truth if they ever decide to sell the item. If it happens to be a Phillies item in question, who are they going to believe, "Mr. Expert" or Howard Wolf? That, my friends, is a HUGE PROBLEM!

If a dummy like me can feel comfortable collecting the items I collect without worrying about COAs/LOAs, expert opinions, or even photos for that matter (a detailed description can often be worth a thousand photos), anyone can. It simply involves taking the time to research your items (a good collection of research material helps) and getting to know others in the hobby who are experienced in collecting the items you seek. Yes, it takes time, but like anything else you do (job, golf, gardening, etc.) it takes time and effort to become proficient.

With regards to guys whining and not doing anything about it, there are a lot of guys like Howard Wolf, Jim Yackel, myself, and others who generally do not toot their own horn yet are readily willing to help out collectors FOR FREE whenever they are asked about an item within their realm of experience.

Again, it's all about knowing who is out there to help out. There are a lot of great, knowledgeable collectors who have forgotten more about their niche area than the "experts" will ever know. Many of these niche collectors are usually flattered to help out fellow collectors when asked.

One last word to all you guys who want a letter because you believe it helps if you ever decide to sell the item. Let me quickly debunk that myth. First, if you overpaid for the item to begin with because you got into a bidding war with the only other Raul Mondesi collector in the world, you will probably never recoup your money. Second, and most important, a COA/LOA means nothing to many collectors, especially experienced collectors. They will be interested in the item solely based on the item's own merits, not the COA/LOA. For example, if you had a legitimate Birmingham Americans World Football League jersey and the price was appealing, I would not hesitate to buy it. Having a COA/LOA would have absolutely NO impact on my decision as there is no one who I would trust more than myself in verifying the authenticity of the jersey.

Every seller should remember this, and every buyer should have the same confidence and experience to make their own decisions when making a purchase. Be your own expert authenticator in the items you collect.

Mark Hayne