Hello. First post. Someone slap my wrists if I screw up the site etiquette, please.
I've recently received a Rickey Henderson bat, supposedly from the 1992 season. I have the MastroNet Reference book (got it from ZaneBats), and it does not list the model number (T141) as one he uses/used.
The question is this: Is the MastroNet book the end-all when it comes to bat identification? It surely has some good information, but is there a chance it might not list all the models a player like Henderson used? (Can you tell I'm hoping?)
The bat itself shows some light use -- very light pine tar on the handle and some rack marks, but no ball marks on the barrel. The number 35 is on the knob in black felt pen. I'm not sure this would be enough to call the bat game used, but the point would be moot if this model number is one he never used.
A while back, I came across a couple Ozzie Smith models that weren't in the MastroNet guide, so I e-mailed Dave Bushing and asked him about it. Here's his reply:
"jeff, we only had records thru 1980 for book, now we have all the way to 2000 so that is why so many models. thanks again, dave"
Here's hoping for a more-complete second edition.
Better yet, here's hoping MEARS takes it upon itself to put bat order records online so collectors can get the information they want, any time they want it. Wouldn't that be great?
Rickey did indeed use a L.S. T141 (in fact, he used a Cooper T141, too). The books by Dave Bushing and Dan Knoll (Mastronet Reference Guide) and also by Vince Malta, Mike Specht, et al. (titled *BATS*) are GREAT guides and reference tools. They are not complete, though, and Dave, Dan, Vince, and Mike, etc., would be the first to tell you that. They are very helpful (I use them all the time, literally) but there are lots of things to consider when evaluating a bat. I have owned over 50 different Rickey Henderson bats and, dare I say, several of the finest examples that have ever existed (I still do, for that matter). If you want to post the scans on this site or send them to me at rgf2@hotmail.com, I'll be happy to share my thoughts. There is another regular reader of this forum (who is a friend of mine) who is also one of the most knowledgeable Rickey collectors out there and I'm sure he'd be happy to chime in, as well. Two initial questions are: (a) How was the bat obtained and whom did it come from?, and (b) Were you told it was from 1992 or did you determine it was from 1992? - If you determined it to be from 1992, how can you tell it is from 1992, versus 1991, 1993, 1994, or 1995 (all of these years have the same L.S. markings and they are all years that Rickey spent at least part of the season with the Oakland A's)? Scans and answers to these questions will help me to help you.
Always room for another Rickey collector ... and welcome to the forum!
Thanks for the replies! As I mentioned, I have the MastroNet Reference Guide, but I don't have the BATS book mentioned. I Googled and tried Amazon, but had no luck. (Unless you count books on flying rodents.) Anyone know a source for this book?
I purchased the bat in question along with some other items from a guy who was working in the Oakland clubhouse in the early 90s, and it was he who told me this was from the 1992 season. The text of the MastroNet book mentions something about the team name being under the player name for years including 1992, but this one just has "Louisville Slugger" without the Registered Mark, which might make it older?
Below are three photos of the Henderson bat. I hope they show enough to give you an idea of what I have. (The real test is if I can get them posted properly!)
Based on the bat's factory markings, your bat is consistent with L.S. bats from the 1983-85 era or the 1985-86 era. I say this because I can't tell if the "Rickey Henderson" on your barrel is burned into the bat or foil-stamped. If it is the former, then the bat is from 1983-85. If it is the latter, then it is from 1985-86 (yes, Louisville did produce some foil-stamped bats in 1986, not just 1985). But I don't believe it was made or issued in 1992. Could it have been used in 1992? Yes, it's possible. Is it likely? Well, although Rickey is one of the few players who has used bats several years after they were made and issued to him (there are several documented cases of this...I own a few), it is pretty unlikely that he used this bat in 1992. Not only are the factory markings inconsistent with 1992 usage, but there is a 35 on his knob. In 1985, when Rickey went to the Yanks, he took Willie Mays' 24 (Rickey's favorite player growing up). After he left the Yanks and went back to the A's, he held onto uniform # 24. He wore 35 early on with the A's, though (pre-Yankees). So, my bet is that this bat was used by Rickey in 1983-84 with the A's, if it is indeed a Rickey Henderson game used bat (length and weight should be considered, too, of course). If the bat is foil-stamped, then this is not possible and it would mean that 35 was written on the knob even though Rickey was 24 by the time he got the bat. The only other thing that I would consider is whether the 35 on the knob is consistent with knob marker notations from the early 1980s as it looks bold and fresh. But I can't think of a reason that a 35 would be added after the fact in the early 1990s. So, my best guess is it's a Rickey Henderson game issued (and maybe game used - though it doesn't show much use) bat from 1983-1984 when he was #35 with the Oakland A's.
Thanks for the huge lump of information on this bat. It makes me feel good to hear that I did well with this purchase.
I talked to the guy I got the bat from today, and he reminded me that he had told me the bat was from 1982, not 1992 as I had originally thought. This put it more in line with what Reid had written. The trademarks, model number and name are burned into the bat, not foil stamped. While the 1982 date I was given is about a year before Reid's estimates, it is a lot closer to the mark than what I was writing yesterday.
The "freshness" of the 35 on the knob is a little disconcerting. The guy claims it was that way when he got it. He has a large collection of stuff, so it is possible that this particular bat has not been handled a lot, which I would imagine would keep the number looking as good as it does. (This large collection might be a reason he is off a year in his dating of the bat, too.)
In any case, thanks to the folks here I feel pretty good about my purchase. I appreciate your opinions and help.
Zeb
P.S. and thanks to Jeff for the tip on the Bats book on eBay!
I agree with Reid on this one, it looks really good. If you've got other questions regarding Rickey stuff, feel free to drop me a line, I seem to have developed a little bit of knowledge on his gamers.
Here are the specific H & B factory records for Rickey Henderson during the '83-85 labeling period with reference to T141 models: 6/27/83 and 7/14/83 order of 11 each time (with Oakland) 34 inches 32 ounces, wax finish and with cupped end...these are the only cupped end T141's ordered during this labeling period); 7/10/85 and 9/20/85 order of 12 each time (with NY Yankees) 34 inches 31.5 ounces, hickory finish on the September order. Between 3/8/83 and 12/2/85 Rickey ordered 190 bats in 11 different models from H & B. In early 1982 H & B computerized their order/shipping records from then forward. Are they more accurate than the earlier hand-written cards ? Who knows, but the computerized records also show orders sent to places other than the bats manufactured for professional use (for Henderson that included such destinations as Baseball Promotions, Anaconda-Kaye, Dream Shows Unlimited, etc.) The most interesting order of Henderson bats that did not go to the A's or Yankees during that general time period is probably the order of 3 Rickey Henderson bats sent to Hoyt Wilhelm 9/18/87 ... model R43, 33 inches.
Thanks for steering me to this site, Reid and Tom.
Welcome aboard ... we hope you stick around and contribute regularly! For those of you who don't know, Mike was one of the four authors of the book BATS (along with Vince Malta) and knows a ton about game used bats. Thanks for posting this information about Rickey's bats.
