Sammy Sosa on the juice? Below are some interesting facts.
From 1989 to 1997, Sosa hit a total of 207 home runs during a 8 year span.
From 1997 to 2004, Sosa hit a total of 367 home runs during a 7 year span, that's 160 more home runs in 7 years. That's an average of about 23 home runs more per season in 7 years.
For the 1997 season Sosa's home run total was 36, the following year in 1998 "The Home Run Race of 98" Sosa's home run total was an amazing 66, that's 33 more home runs than the year before. He went from so-so to SOSA!
One only has to look at the numbers to see that Sosa was on something!
This year Sosa has a total of 13 HR's and 38 rbi's year to date. Is he off the stuff?
I don't get it. Ralphy and Sammy aren't MLB Hall of Famers?
When and if they used Steriods, they were LEGAL under Major League Baseball rules.
Ok, maybe they weren't LEGAL - But they were not banned substances.
They may have been illegal for the US Goverment, but if that was the case, Fergie Jenkins smoked pot, so he shouldn't be in The Hall, because pot is illegal, just as Steriods, right? (I wish they'd put Keith Hernandez in the Hall already!)
Baseball waited too long to make rules against use of such drugs, and players who abused them during those periods shouldn't be punished, because they were not breaking the rules of their sport.
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
I don't consider pot "performance enhancing" as steroids are. Gaylord Perry is a good example of a guy who could be considered as someone who cheated his way into the Hall of Fame. What he did by doctoring the baseball clearly enhanced his performance, as do the drugs that Sosa and Bonds may have used, and the drugs that Palmeiro and McGwire did use. Regardless of whether not baseball allowed these substances at the time of their doesn't matter. If they are banned now it shows that anyone who used them did so with the goal of enhancing their performance in mind (illegally or not we don't know) and the fact that they are not allowed to be used at this point in time shows that they should have never been allowed in the first place and in turn negatively impacted the general state of the game. In essence, baseball is no longer "clean". I highly doubt Jenkins smoked pot with the idea that he would go out and throw a perfect game right after he did it. Steroids is a completely different issue.
1997 36 HRs
1998 66 HRs
Thas is a 30 Hr difference not 33, but anyway Sosa should not be inducted to the HOF and is a user obviously, I like how in congress he cant speak english but on the Pepsi commercials he does just fine, I also want Keith Hernandez in the HOF that way we can have cocaine using wife beater to add to the collection.
This guy isn't in the Hall of Fame, but look at those number and stop pointing at Sammy Sosa number. I would guess that Sammy took Steriods, but there is no proof, so his stats count, and life goes on.
If Major League Baseball had an issue, they should have addressed it. Don't punish a guy because he did his job - Even if he used a drug that enhanced his performance, because the rules of the game allowed it at the time.
Oh wait, you guys want to put everyone to the cross without a fair trial.
Sammy would win, so would Mac and Bonds - THEY DIDN'T BREAK THE RULES OF BASEBALL.
...and to the argument by the guy who said since they are now illedgal - EX POST FACTO.
Welcome to the United States of America. If you don't like our rules you are welcome to leave.
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
I like how you think that just because MLB did not list steriods against the rules that it is just fine to use them. Steriods are and were illegal in the US without perscriptions, according to your theory Sosa could have murdered someone because MLB does not have rules against it.
I'm a huge Roger Maris and Yankees fan, but the facts are, he will never be in the Hall of Fame. Sure, he broke the home run record but you can't put a guy in the HOF on that merit alone. The Hall is reserved for the BEST players. Sosa and Maris are/were not even considered close to being the best.
These factors are keeping Maris down:
.260 career batting average
.345 career OBP
275 career HRs set career highs in 1st two years as a Yankee, then fizzled.
Sosa, on the other hand is/was never even considered one of the best players in the game. Sure, he was a great home run hitter but that's about it. The top 5 hitters in the game today (not including Barry Bonds who is also likely a user, and Derrek Lee who should revert to the mean):
1). Alex Rodriguez
2). Albert Pujols
3). Miguel Cabrera
4). Mark Teixeira
5). Vladimir Guerrero
Tim, nice reply, it gets so boring hearing these guys make comments like "If a guy commits murder, it is not against baseball rules." and "If it is illegal in The United States, it is illegal in baseball". Your reply was a discussion with merrit.
Now, I know Roger Maris and Keith Hernandez will never be in the Hall of Fame.
I am bothered that Thurman Munson is never seriously considered to be a canidate. His stats, his sad ending and his leadership on the field made him a strong canidate in my views.
Now, I disagree that Sammy Sosa is not considered to be one of the best in the game during an era. For a twelve year period he was a league leader in home runs. He is a member of the 30 homer - 30 steal club. I am not defending if he did or did not use steriods, as it has not been proven, so my point is why is a guy like this taking a bad rap?
I know why. Because people want to hang people before they are found guilty. In this country you can't just look at someone and judge them as guilty. If never found guilty, his stats will stand and he'll go to the Hall of Fame an elite member of the 600 home run club.
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
Joel, there's no problem with that. It's nice to have a sports-related debate on here, I'm glad to hear your thoughts. I'm going to read your post and come up with a reply a little bit later. There is one thing I do agree with, though. Sammy Sosa was a fantastic player from 1998-2001 when he was in the thick of the home run race. It seems he's regressing with age but we'll see where he stands at the end of the year!
You say your tired or hearing guys saying
"If a guy commits murder, it is not against baseball rules."
who said that, is what I would like to know? I stated earlier in this post "according to your theory Sosa could have murdered someone because MLB does not have rules against it." Your means you Joel Alpert.
**OBNOIXIOUS COMMENT DELETED.
This message has been edited by ecky3 on Aug 2, 2005 6:35 PM
Thanks Adam, too bad I never got to see the original post.
I never, ever said if Sammy Sosa murdered someone that it is accecptable.
There is a base of idiots in this world who think if someone kills another human being it should be compared to if a person injects their body, allegidly, with a performance enhancing drug.
Sounds like comparing sour grapes to apples with razor blades in them.
Also, please don't show me a picture of a guy skinny then hugh and say now they shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. I belive steriods have been abused, but you need more than a picture and stats to convict someone in this country.
As usual, I feel like the bad guy, and I am not, I am just protecting the innocent until proven guilty.
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
I beleive that some may have misinterpreted my post.
I was saying that Major League Baseball and the Players Union have no legal standing to make legal or illegal the use of steroids. Just because something is not written in a baseball player's contract does not make make it legal. In fact, if MLB and the union agreed to override US drug laws, baseball executives would be in for prison time. This is why I have never understood that argument that 'steroids were legal in baseball.' Of course they were illegal. The US Congress said so and it's they, not Bud Selig and Donald Fehr, who decide.
I totally agree with you and was trying to make the same exact point, Joel Alpert cannot seem to understand the point that both me and you have tried to make. He also thinks that Sosa has to be found guilty in a court of law for using steriods, for us to have an opinion about whether he is a HOFer or not.
Thanks for trying to clear this up for all of those who cannot seem to figure out your point and mine, some people just cannot get it.
He says he didn't, Congress just started investigating them in the past few years, and what I keep saying is at the time Major League Baseball didn't have rules against players using them. They did have rules about other drugs, but you people seem to think that it is ok that Fergie Jenkins got caught smoking pot and he is in the Hall of Fame. Pot is an illegal drug, right? Don't tell me it doesn't enchance your performance, that is not proven.
I think Bill Lee's performance was improved by pot.
PROVE THAT SAMMY SOSA ABUSED STERIODS - I SURE HAVN'T SEEN ANY PROOF OTHER THAN GUESSES.
Then again, if he did it before baseball started testing for it, what are they going to do about it? Nothing, it wasn't against baseball rules, and Congress just got involved.
Sammy Sosa will be in the Hall of Fame, you can whine about it all you want.
Oh wait, Mark McGwire will be there first, whine about that also. In fact, Mac will be there on the first ballot.
I am just trying to be reasonable, those of you who want to try these players without a fair hearing and investigation are wrong - end of story. Baseball didn't mind that these players may have been abusing steriods, so their records will stand and life will go on.
I wonder if I should look into this drug. Do you think it will help me on the poker table?
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
He says he didn't, Congress just started investigating them in the past few years, and what I keep saying is at the time Major League Baseball didn't have rules against players using them. They did have rules about other drugs, but you people seem to think that it is ok that Fergie Jenkins got caught smoking pot and he is in the Hall of Fame. Pot is an illegal drug, right? Don't tell me it doesn't enchance your performance, that is not proven.
I think Bill Lee's performance was improved by pot.
PROVE THAT SAMMY SOSA ABUSED STERIODS - I SURE HAVN'T SEEN ANY PROOF OTHER THAN GUESSES.
Then again, if he did it before baseball started testing for it, what are they going to do about it? Nothing, it wasn't against baseball rules, and Congress just got involved.
Sammy Sosa will be in the Hall of Fame, you can whine about it all you want.
Oh wait, Mark McGwire will be there first, whine about that also. In fact, Mac will be there on the first ballot.
I am just trying to be reasonable, those of you who want to try these players without a fair hearing and investigation are wrong - end of story. Baseball didn't mind that these players may have been abusing steriods, so their records will stand and life will go on.
I wonder if I should look into this drug. Do you think it will help me on the poker table?
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
He says he didn't, Congress just started investigating them in the past few years, and what I keep saying is at the time Major League Baseball didn't have rules against players using them. They did have rules about other drugs, but you people seem to think that it is ok that Fergie Jenkins got caught smoking pot and he is in the Hall of Fame. Pot is an illegal drug, right? Don't tell me it doesn't enchance your performance, that is not proven.
I think Bill Lee's performance was improved by pot.
PROVE THAT SAMMY SOSA ABUSED STERIODS - I SURE HAVN'T SEEN ANY PROOF OTHER THAN GUESSES.
Then again, if he did it before baseball started testing for it, what are they going to do about it? Nothing, it wasn't against baseball rules, and Congress just got involved.
Sammy Sosa will be in the Hall of Fame, you can whine about it all you want.
Oh wait, Mark McGwire will be there first, whine about that also. In fact, Mac will be there on the first ballot.
I am just trying to be reasonable, those of you who want to try these players without a fair hearing and investigation are wrong - end of story. Baseball didn't mind that these players may have been abusing steriods, so their records will stand and life will go on.
I wonder if I should look into this drug. Do you think it will help me on the poker table?
Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
email me at joel@alpert.net if you wish to get on our mailing lists
I do not advocate that anyone should use any illegal drugs, having to deal with drug users in my proffession I will tell you that many people who are users should be lined up and executed in my opinion, they do nothing for our society as a whole, and will never contribute anything. They are disease spreading bums and have ruined this country to a degree and burdened the rest of us with having to use tax dollars to take care of them period. Steriod users however do not really fall into this catogoery but they are not excused and are still breaking the law.
Now for Sosa, McGwire, and other obvious users, I think that one or the other of these guys will not make the HOF. I live here in St. Louis and people of this city cannot stand McGwire, what he did in front of Congress was a joke and shameful. I have watched the many hours of that hearing over and over and can send you a copy of the tape if you want. I think that the sports writers will send a message to one or more of these guys and not let them in. In your opinion I cannot have an opinion on something unless it was proven in a court of law. You are a person who lets the Goverment think for you, I am a person who is opinionated and by putting things together, I can basically deduce that a few guys in the MLB have used steriods. If it walks, quacks, and looks like a duck, it is a duck, in McGwires case, he got huge overnight, he started crushing the ball all of the sudden, he had a very bad case of acme, and he basically admitted it in front Congress. If he is innocent why doesen't he take Canseco to court and prove his innocence? According to you, since OJ was not found guilty, in one court, no one should think he is. If you eye witnessed a murder of someone, and they were found not guilty in a court of law, would you believe they were not guilty? According to what you have told all of us, you would believe they were not guilty. If and when you have childeren I can reccomend a good baby sitter for you, Michael Jackson, he is right up your alley, he has been found not guilty of abusing children and everything.
I think the steroids/HOF debate is like many political chatroom debates, in that many from both sides have made up their minds beforehand. The difference here is that, while I have enough sense to not talk politics online, I chimed in on this subject.
Intelligent and thoughtful people have disagreed with me on other subjects, so it is okay that folks may and will take a different stance than I on steroids and the HOF.
