There was a guy that was selling turnkey grading businesses in the mid 90's. He basically sold them the sealing machine, labels and slabs and off they went. That is how Ksa and a bunch of American companies were started. That is why there are quite a few companies with the exact holders and labels. Jim
For what it's worth, I remember when CSA was the only competition that PSA had as Becket wasn't around and SGC was still a very small option. I had pretty good success crossing over CSA cards to PSA back then. Of course, that was back when there was no crossover service, so you had to crack them open and resubmit.
If I remember correctly, CSA got bought out, and the new holders had a purple label instead of the red and white. I've heard that the CSA cards in the purple label were not graded as stringently as the old red and white label cards.
The person selling the turnkey operations was Alan Hager the founder of grading companies. Hager started ASA and received royalties from all of the other companies (including PSA) until his Patent ran out. I think he did not renew as he was having legal difficulties at the time. One of the Nickerson's ran ASA Canada, which I believe became KSA. About this time there was also CSA, USA, and AAI. SBC was also an original company but they did not have to pay Hager as there system was the 1 to 100 as opposed to 1 to 10. I never trusted CSA as I think they started out as a couple of kids in Ohio. Hager, in my opinion, was actually a knowledgeable grader of other peoples cards.
Dan - KSA is certainly nice enough. I have always found their customer service to be strong. Are cards in their new holders more accurately graded than the old holders? I always had a problem crossing over KSA cards to PSA after cracking out. Usually I was looking at the grade -2.
I didn't want to mention his name, but I guess it's only a matter of time before Hager comes up in a forum. He may have been good at grading but his downfall was always greed. He would grade his own cards nice and high, mostly trim jobs. When people brought him nice cards for grading, he would under grade them and then try to buy them from the person. Same thing with coins. Thus the lawsuits. Jim
The 1952 Parkhurst Tim Horton rookie is high on my want list, but not high enough to pay the $2500 asking price the seller wanted.
I try to track prices of cards on my wantlist so I can guage how much I end up overpaying for cards I really want (don't we all overpay for those have-to-have cards..lol)....
Anyways, the Horton card in PSA 8 grade should sell for roughly around $1,100 IMO. There was one available about 8 months ago on A.J.'s website for $1400, but I do not know what that ended up selling for. I have seen PSA 7's sell for between 550 and 700, so $1,100 to $1,400 for a PSA 8 seems about right. There are 3 PSA 9's out there somewhere, but I have never seen one offered. I would think that $2500 would be more in line for a 9.
The PSA 8 that was just listed on ebay was not centered very well, though well within the guidelines for a PSA 8. I did e-mail the seller telling him that if he decided to relist the card at a more reasonable price that I would be interested.
Sometimes the market changes so quickly that it is hard to get a good read. I just listed a PSA 9 Clark Gillies rookie on ebay recently. The last 2 that sold on ebay both went for over $300, so I thought listing it for an opening bid of $275 was not out of line. It went unsold, though I did get quite a few 'unfriendly' e-mails from buyers asking me what I was smoking.
Ray. That's what I was thinking, $1200-$1500 is probably a fair price for an 8. One of the Psa 9's sold privatly in the Toronto area for $5000. This was about 3-5 years ago, I don't remember what the pop was then. Jim.
The first 9 of any vintage hall-of-famer always commands an extreme premium. I didn't think that the Horton would sell for that much in PSA 9 grade, but I guess it's possible given that there are only 3 out there.
I'm not sure how to quantify the premium placed on RC's, but I would think that $1,100-1,400 is a low estimate for a '52-53 Horton. I think I sold my PSA 8 '53-54 Horton for $900 when I broke up my '53 set. Notwithstanding the ususually large number of PSA 9's of the rookie, I think the two cards have similar populations in PSA 8.
That said, the Horton rookie that was on eBay recently did indeed have pretty marginal centering for the grade. I don't think it was worth $2,500, but I'd still guess that it would fetch at least $1,500 in a true auction.