I was just curious how one goes about cutting a sheet of cards. I'm not a fan at all because to me a BVG 9.5 Orr Rookie thats been sheet cut is like owning a modern card, Its just not the same as a true vintage gem. But I always wondered how is it done? What kind of company would do it? And does anyone know the cost of doing it?
Andrew. There are many ways to do this and any printer with older machines can do it for you. I think the dealers that do alot of this just bought thier own cutters now. Jim.
I believe the problem that the hockey collecting community is having with Beckett is that there is no trust in any of thier high grade vintage cards. The assumption is that if it is graded 9 or better ,it must be sheet cut, whether it is or not. Did they create their own monster?. Remember, the sheets are vintage and psa high grade cards are becoming out of reach for me therefore are becket high grade cards the answere. I'am confused because, deep down to have a perfectly cut vintage card is "God". Beckett may be affordable to acquire, but what price do I have to pay for the same grade psa card. I repeat, the sheets are vintage. The majority of my collection is PSA graded, but the few Becketts I do own are beautiful with superior slabbing.
I agree that the sheets are vintage BUT my problem is, Lets get hypothetical for a moment, Take a 79-80 OPC Gretzky rookie sheet, Yes the sheet is vintage but if the card is in the middle its corners and edges haven't faced the difficulty that it normally would if it was already cut. Therefore you are man making the perfect edges, corners and centering by sheet cutting the card. Its still vintage cardboard but it doesn't have the same feel, Down in your heart you know its almost cheating to get that perfect high end card.
I'am not into brand new cards at all but do follow the sites on those boring days. I 'am amazed at what the limited print cards go for and all are cut to be "mint condition" and they are brand new. To find this quality in vintage is rare and expensvie to acquire. Sheet cut cards can give someone the opportunity to own a mint or gem card at probably a better price than the same card in oringinal condition if you can just get over the hump that it is cut today and not when the sheet was printed, and has tons of eye appeal. I am looking at some of my 1970 opc graded 8 cards as I'am typing and the off center and frayed edges really does not have the eye appeal, but all opc in its earler years were like that and it and does not affect the grade.(actually 1968 and 1969 opc seem to have sharper cut edges than the other years) Try to submitt a frayed edge ealier 60's parkies for example and see if you get the same grading tolerance as the later opc cards.
I collect mostly post war cards and have noticed over the last year that some of the usual bidders on the different years for psa graded cards are also placing bids on Beckett graded cards, and they always sell cheaper. Is this a start of a trend because of the high prices some of the high end psa cards are getting. Hey, they may be sheet cut. Hee! Hee!
Andrew, I own a ungraded OPC Gretzky rookie one of several my younger brother pulled from packs back in 1979. It is diamond checked but tack point sharp corners and believe it or not razor sharp edges. My brother gave it to me for Xmas in the late 80's claiming that technically I do own the card since he used to take the change out of my pocket and buy cards on his way to school. I'am 8 years his senior. The bugger still has several of them.
I forget which auction house, but they were selling MULTIPLE uncut sheets of 66 Topps, and 69 OPC as a couple of examples....
Some of the sheets had frayed edges, and you run the risk of creases from folding, but they went for huge money at the time...it took a while, but soon there were high grade examples being graded by BVG and PSA by a group of sellers that had very suspicious backgrounds. Not to flame anyone, so don't take it personally. It's a good way to prove double prints like in the 2nd series from 69 OPC.
Dan, this explains why there are so many graded 1969 Bobby Orr Allstar and Norris trophy cards, but I do not see #24 Bobby's regular card in a 9 come up to often. In fact I have not seen one on ebay in the last few years. I know the Howe has a low pop for 69 in a 8 grade. Please correct me if I'am wrong but did you sale a 1969 PSA 8 Howe on ebay a few months back.?
Those are great sheets. Nice to see the scans of all those hall of famers and the set that ended the 60's decade.
Interesting opinions on the sheet cut cards. Lets take the step alittle further.
What if; I had a uncut roll of 10 of any particular year of wrappers (say 1954 Topps), now with these being unfolded, no creasing and I cut one off to the size it originally is, would this wrapper be more desirable to collectors or less?
And, if I sent it in to GAI for grading and they already had a 10 on record which had been once folded, would this wrapper be an 11?
I guess it all comes down to personal choice, the market determines the desire and value. In saying this, Topps Vault., when they started listing proofs of cards, boxes etc... back a few years ago, prices were going insane but as more and more came out, they got less desireable...(I guess similar to the cut cards, to see one or two super high grade is neat, now we see or assume all the high graded Beckett like Lyle said are sheet cut). But now try to sell one of those proofs back on ebay or anywhere, they get no respect and have lost their original zing.
It all comes down to personal desire and the rarity thereof. Who is the best grader and why. PSA is the best marketing of thier business because of the registry, otherwise they would be behind Beckett as they once were, even though Beckett has the best holders to protect your cards and they do half grades as well. SCG is like PSA but with half grades...then again, no registry. Whichever you choose is definately right for you!
I truly believe most of the highest grade cards are still in personal collections of the long time collectors who don't believe in grading. I have seen some amazing examples of ungraded pre-war and post-war cards.
Lyle, if I were collecting graded examples, I would steer away from the deep pocketed registry buyers and put a nice set together of cards of another grader, that is just what I would do. I have no status with regards to my collection, its just some great vintage stuff that I love more than any company could tell me...
I would have no problem with sheet cut cards if they were labelled as such. First of all, sheet cut cards are not the same. You can't tell on the internet but when you look at a sheet cut card in person, the cut is not even close. This is just one reason that everyone should have a 10x loupe. I disagree that Beckett was ever ahead of PSA, maybe in 80's and newer but never in 60's and earlier. I once had a bunch of cards graded at expo because beckett was grading on site, the only people that even looked at them only wanted to cross them to psa. I tried them on ebay with no luck. I broke the cards out and sent them to psa and they were sold for strong prices within a week. I think the best value in hockey is SGC. You can usually pick up great cards at nice discounts to psa equals simply because of the inflated prices caused registry. Even though SGC has a registry now, it is too little too late to have any meaningful effect on prices. Jim
To me, looking at a vintage card with 4 sharp corners and an unblemished surface is a sight to behold. It makes you think, how did this card survive all these years in this condition? It survived all the usual scenario's, mothers, walls at recess, spokes, pockets etc.. This may sound odd, but It's like every card tells a story.
If you collect higher grade vintage cards, It's like you are collecting the survivor's of a byegone era.
While sheetcut cards are indeed cut from vintage cardboard, they are not the survivors in the way that cards from wax packs or vending that have been in circulation for 40+ years are...
Lyle, another reason there are so many high quality 2nd series 69
OPC cards, in addition to the double prints, is that a large amount was printed for vending cases for a US customer...that is apparently the story. That is why the Mr Hockey NNO version are so common, vs the number and corrected version of card #193. The corrected version, with number, was only available in packs sold in Canada.
Yes, I sold a #61 Howe in PSA 8 for over $500 a couple of months ago, and Gerry C, repeated the feat a few weeks later...for some reason, the Howe is very tough to find centered...
Dan thanks for the insight on the 1969 year. I may not be so eager next time I bid on certain cards for this year. I do own a 60 Howe PSA 8 o/c and a Beckett 8.5. It may be sheet cut but I really like the card and the centering is great.
Bobby and Jim, you are both 100% correct in suggesting SCG as an alternative 3rd party grader to PSA. I figured this out after I purchased my 4th SCG graded 8 card for less than what the same PSA 8 would have sold for. After close scrutiny, the cards was just as nice as all my PSA cards.
Jim, in a few past threads you have offered to send cards in for forum members to PSA and wandering if you are still offering this service, as I do have a few cards I have owned for many years but I'am afriad to send them to the sellers in Nova Scotia or Montreal. My email is lmartin3149@rogers.com Please let me know and thanks
