I need some advice. I have a Orr and Gretzky rookie. One is GAI and the other is KSA. I would like to get them out of these holders and into PSA holders. I don't plan to sell them anytime soon but I would like to have some consistency with the cards in my collection and it seems that PSA or SGC seem to be the way to go for the long run.
My question to all of you is: Should I crack them open and send them in for grading as raw or should I send them in the holders for crossover? The obvious goal would be to get the highest grade possible.
If you can give me your opinion on what you think they would grade at PSA that would be great.
I'll say trimmed and trimmed - especially if you don't first crack them out. Even if you do, I'm guessing at least the Gretzky is a sheeter, which theoretically PSA should reject. Cards recently cut from sheets certainly do get by PSA but the edges on the Gretzky look too good to be true.
If you really want consistency among your slabs, you might be better off selling these and reentering the market for Orr and Gretz RC's.
Sorry Colin, but I have to agree with Steve. I hope we're wrong.
I definitely would NOT crack these out because they may never get into holders that high again if they are sheet cut or trimmed. If you really want these in different holders I would take the VERY long shot chance at using the cross over service. If that doesn't work ...and it probably won't, I agree with Steve again. Sell them as is. Buy new ones in the holder of your choice.
piss all over your Christmas......these are both very nice cards and high grade examples.....but I always have to wonder, why aren't these high end cards in PSA holders already? Certainly, anyone that owned them, must have had a reason to use GAI or KSA, and at the same time, realized that PSA would garner a high resale price. Either way, it's worth investing the $100 or so, to send them to PSA, in their holders, and see if PSA will cross them, with a minimum grade of PSA 8. If they don't slab, then your still have them in the original holder, if PSA does slab them, then you probably will have a nice increase in their resale value, eventually.
What's the deal with GAI? I thought that company was formed by some of the main guys from PSA and that they took some of the graders with them. Why can't they do the same thing that PSA is doing?
I recently picked up a 1954 Topps Delvecchio card graded GAI 8. I was hoping to cross it over to PSA, even as a 7. I'm not worried about it being sheet cut, but of course it could be trimmed. It certainly isn't a perfect card, but should I be worried about this card too?
Colin - While I agree with Steve and Tom on this matter I do think you should crack the Gretzky and try PSA. If it comes back trimmed, send it to BGS. You will make more money in the BGS holder and if it measures correctly, which it definately appears to, it will grade with BGS. The Orr does not look sheet cut to me, and it is an early GAI grade. Maybe, somebody thought they could make some money on the half-grade. I would send it to PSA in the holder at least once before deciding what you want to do.
I think it's an unwritten policy of sorts with BGS that they do not differentiate between original factory cuts and cards recently cut from sheets. Back when I had a Beckett Hockey Monthly subscription, I remember them kinda dancing around the issue when a reader questioned them about it.
I know a lot of modern cards in all sports tanked earlier this decade, but I think the proliferation of ultra-high grade OPC cards really took a lot out of that segment of the hockey card market. The poor production techniques is what made 9's or better so appealing, yet with BGS, one could almost have 9.5's and better made to order. The BGS population distribution of some key '80s cards is just ridiculous. Very heavily skewed toward the very high end of the scale.
I emailed BGS in 2004 asking about the huge amount of Mark Messier 9.5 rookie cards in the marketplace. Their response: ~"If we measure a card and the card measures correctly, we will grade the card. If the card appears to be any shorter then standard, it will not go into a case. This means that there is a chance that the high graded cards did come from a sheet. We hope this helps."~
~~~"yet with BGS, one could almost have 9.5's and better made to order. The BGS population distribution of some key '80s cards is just ridiculous. Very heavily skewed toward the very high end of the scale."~~~
Steve - That is pretty funny. At the Canadian Expo I believe a dealer had an ad stating something to the effect of give him your want list of BGS 9.5 cards and he will get them for you.
This message has been edited by aro67 on Dec 24, 2006 8:29 AM This message has been edited by aro67 on Dec 23, 2006 11:51 PM
If I understand you guys correctly you are are saying that the Orr is trimmed and is probably not sheet cut. I am very surprised that GAI would not be able to spot that. I was under the impression that GAI was started by people from PSA and was labelled as a premium grading service. I guess I was wrong.
I am still pretty happy with the cards as they are both very nice to look at but this has been an eye opening experience for me. Thanks for all your feedback.
I don't know that we're saying the Orr is trimmed or a sheeter, but I think the conventional wisdom is that GAI cards tend to be summarily rejected by PSA if submitted in their holders. Not all the time, and it might be worth $50 or whatever to take a chance, but I think most of us would say the odds are slim.
As Albie pointed out, and which I failed to notice when I made my first post, the Orr has the "1st graded" designation on its GAI label, so there's a reasonable chance it may have been a PSA 8 at one point in its life. Early on GAI was viewed as a dealer-friendly operation that ended up slabbing a lot of PSA X cards as GAI X.5. That may very well have been the case with your Orr. Since that time, though, the majority of vintage collectors ostensibly have come to view GAI as a second-rate company. Not quite a PRO, but certainly not an SGC, PSA or even BVG.
As for the Gretzky, though, I'd say there's a very, very high likelihood of it having a non-factory cut. Again, might be worth a shot with PSA, but BGS is probably your best bet if you're thinking of selling.
Have to agree with my buddy Yawitz, BGS has a way bigger following in hockey the GAI, one just has to follow Martins auctions and the BGS kid to ascertain that fact!!! I would keep both cards in there original holders. The Orr I thought came from Mastro auctions?? A Orr BVG 8.5 sold for 6350.00 May 2004 on ebay. I don't have a clue what yours was purchased at. Also have to agree with Steve good chance yours was a PSA 8 as GAI did have a very solid rep when they came out. However it also seems that both the GAI 8.5 and also GAI 9 ORR rookies came out the same time as Mastro had a big Topps vault sheet auction of like 200 sheets back in 2004.
Another fact dealing specifically with the Gretzky rookie is the rough cuts are a target of some of the card doctors. As some of these Gretzkys are slightly over sized and can be trimmed to fit the standard beckett size. So a PSA 7 could be trimmed to get a BVG 9 As PSA was very hard on many of these as the edges and corners were kind of the handsaw presentation prior to scapel accuracy!!
I also have to agree with Steve. GAI has lost a lot of credibility over the past year, and I would opt for Beckett over GAI if those were the only choices.
I don't think the Orr is sheet cut, I think it was either part of a private collection or a dealer looking for bumps. I just checked the serial number and usually when you check about 10 numbers ahead and behind you get the rest of the persons submission. If it was from a sheet you would think that there would be a run on the submission. Either way, you should not submit it in the gai holder and if you are planning to crack it out, take a really good look at it first. Jim.
I just have to say that the Gretzky looks too sharp to be true. Most PSA 9s (and even the lone PSA 10) exhibit SOME roughness along the edge. The Orr is an interesting case. It might sell for more in the 8.5 grade if that's what you want to do. Nonetheless, I'd probably have a better piece of mind if it was in a PSA case.
