QuestionFebruary 13 2007 at 9:06 PM
|Elmar (Login esb1922)|
In 1998 The Hockey News published 100 greatest players ever. Can anybody help me to complete that list? I have 98 names; the missing numbers are 78 and 95.
|February 13 2007, 9:42 PM |
I thought it was just 1-50, Atleast thats the Hockey News Collectors Edition I own.
|February 13 2007, 9:48 PM |
The book lists the top 100 players. Number 78 is Steve Yzerman and 95 is Dominik Hasek.
|February 13 2007, 10:01 PM |
Thanks a lot Gary
That is what exactly I was wondering about - where are those 2 who won 2 last Stanley Cups (Hasek - 2 Hart trophies, 4 Vezina)
...and how Chelios can be #40 so much ahead of them !?!?!?!
|February 14 2007, 12:31 AM |
Elmar - When the list came out there was a fair bit of controversy surrounding Yzerman. However, that list would be different now as that was 8 years ago. Both Hasek and Yzerman would receive higher rankings.
As I have always said Orr actually finished first because Stan Fischler voted him no better than 13th. If Fischler had not been allowed to vote, Orr would have been first and Gretzky second.
|This message has been edited by aro67 on Feb 14, 2007 8:05 AM|
|February 14 2007, 7:50 AM |
Who the hell is Stan Fischler and why is someone who with such an obviously severe crack habit being asked their opinion on such an important issue ?
As obviously subjective as these things are I think we can all agree that Stevie Y needs to be top-20. At least put him ahead of Chris Chelios. Yeesh.
|February 14 2007, 8:00 AM |
Fischler is a hockey historian who has written more hockey books than anyone can count. Many of these books have a lot of the same information in them, but he has done quite a bit of research on the history of the game.
I agree that Steve Yzerman needs to be moved up in the rankings, but he continued to show his greatness in the later part of his career. When the list is done again, I feel sure that he will move up in the rankings. He has developed quite a following over the past few years.
Bobby and Stevie
|February 14 2007, 8:10 AM |
Anyone who has Bobby Orr as the 13th best hockey player needs to revisit their research methods; that is beyond insane. He must have been one of the guys that Bobby disowned (just finished reading the new book).
The great thing about Stevie Y was how he changed his game as he aged, from an offensive power to a more defensive role as he lost a step and the make-up of the team changed. Plus his leadership of course. My favorite non-Bruin ! Wish he had gone to the last Olympics, we needed him.
|February 14 2007, 9:09 AM |
Albie, that was not my point. The list would be completely different now.
For instance, I am sure that Brodeur would take someone's place.
But how Chelios could be so high, ahead of Horton, Perreault, Joliat, and others. I do not even think he was any better than Scott Stevens or Al Macinnis (but of course, it is a matter of taste).
Speaking of age, Sakic was #94 being 4 years younger than Yzerman and only 29 at the time the list was made.
And it is hard for me to accept the fact that there are 3 Czechs, 1 Swede,
and 1 Finn in the list and no Russians
One more thing... Theoretically I could understand when someone puts Gretzky,
Howe, Richard, or Lemieux as better players than Orr but where did Fischer get 8 more???
orr 13 th ,he is #1 all the way
|February 14 2007, 9:39 AM |
is that guy on drugs or something,i know stan fichler for all his contributions to many books and articles,what happened to him when he voted orr at 13 that day??? maybe he had a dispute with orr that week.anyways lets put bobby orr in all 6 positions VS. gretzky in all 6 positions=====bobby orr #1 hands down!!!! p.s. bobby orr won 2 art ross trophy's (scoring champions) twice.no other defence will ever do that again,he also changed the game of hockey forever with his offensive rushes.need i say more.
|February 14 2007, 9:44 AM |
I think that to give these lists any legitimacy you have to limit it to retired players. I like the discussion that is always generated, always nice to hear other opinions on players, some of whom one might not be familiar with, but how can you rank someone who is still playing against the greats of the game ? In all likelihood 10 years from now Martin Brodeur will be recognized as a better goalie than Pat Roy so why bother trying to place someone like him on the list now ? You need to be able to look at a career in it's entirety. Maybe Fischler is senile and thought he was in 1966 or something, that would explain things.
|February 14 2007, 1:22 PM |
The Hockey News had 50 voters rank their top 50 players in order. There was no criteria other than rank your top 50 players of all-time regardless of position. In general the voters are well known hockey names. Some of the writers could be questioned but the people selected at least have a significant hockey background.
Fischler might have researched the game but unfortunately his conclusions are illogical. In 1988 Fischler wrote a book entitled hockey's top 100. At that time he ranked in order: Howe, Gretzky, Shore, Kelly, Frank Boucher, Richard, Morenz, Beliveau, Doug Harvey, Glenn Hall, Syl Apps and Denis Potvin ahead of Orr. I would think 10 years later he would have ranked Lemiuex, Coffey and maybe Mark Messier ahead of Orr - relegating Orr to 16th place.
At the time of the selection Chelios had won 3 Norris trophies, and been a first-team all-star 4 times. Other than Ray Bourque he was probably the best defensemen of his era. The defensemen right after him on the list Tim Horton and Brad Park are probably not as good as Chelios, although the point is debatable. Brad Park was my favourite player after Orr retired, and he was unbelievable on the Power Play, but given the choice I can see people taking Chelios over him.
I can see arguing about Yzerman's place on the list and maybe Chelios is too high but from a defensemen perspective there are not too many behind him that are better.
re: aro13 Selections
|February 14 2007, 2:41 PM |
I think you are dreaming when you say the Chelios is one of the best defencemen of all time!! Orr is rated #1 followed by Doung Harvey and Eddie Shore & Ray Bourque and Paul Coffey. Chelios is good but NOT EVEN close to being near the 20 as a player of all-time. I would rate at least 40 others befroe him.
You may like him as a player but he is not even close or in the same leauge as Orr. Orr has 8 straight Norris Trophies(a record) - no one comes close to that except Doug Harvey with 7. Orr and Harvey redefined how defence was played and are the best at their position of all time.
|This message has been edited by shiftintermedia on Feb 14, 2007 2:42 PM|
Stan Fischler and the Satanic Verses
|February 14 2007, 3:04 PM |
It was reported in the Toronto Daily News today that Stan Fischler has gone into hiding! Apparently he is following the example of Salman Rushdie who spent over a decade in hiding after receiving death threats for his book "The Satanic Verses." Mr. Fischler ranked Bobby Orr as the 13th best player of all time and has since had his life threatened by angry fans, he lost his job, his wife left him, his dog ran away, the bank repossessed his car, and his children have all changed their last name.
Rumors have it that Mr. Fischler is staying in the guest room of Mr. Rushdie until he can get his new fake passport and other fake documents. He is also said to be preparing for extensive plastic surgery to avoid the wrath of the "Orrfans."
Bobby Orr made a rare public appearance today where he asked everyone to remain calm and to avoid any more threats of violence against Mr. Fischler.
|February 14 2007, 3:12 PM |
I understand your point but Chelios didn't have much competition in his era. Even though his 1993, 1996 Norris are pretty much questionable (like Lindros being #54 all times great) ...Meanwhile Park had a very little chance playing at the same time with Orr, Potvin, Robinson, and Savard.
|February 14 2007, 3:15 PM |
Paul - Where did I say Chelios was comparable to Orr or Harvey?
He ranked as the 40th best player of all-time on the hockey news list. He ranked 9th all-time among defensemen. Of the defensemen that ranked behind him - how many are legitamately better?
|February 14 2007, 3:23 PM |
For the benefit of those of us who don't know the list, would someone please list the top 20 or so defensemen. Thanks.
|February 14 2007, 3:25 PM |
Howe G (just in case anybody thought it was Mark or Marty)
|February 14 2007, 3:28 PM |
Yzerman and the list
|February 14 2007, 3:34 PM |
I remember when this set was requested by a few of us on the PSA registry. I had to list a few of the cards I had and I kept putting in Steve Yzerman and I could not figure out why it kept getting rejected. I had just assumed that he was on the list.