I think modern cards suck for the following reasons:
1) Remember when card companies started producing short-prints? I thought it was a great idea not to mass-produce cards, especially rookies. I remember when UD had their SP Authentic cards starting around 1998 - they had so many great rookie cards that were hard to get and demand was very high. Now how many damn SP sets does UD have? There must be over 500 different Lebron James rookie cards. Around after 2003, card companies have gone crazy with SP cards.
2) Crappy game jersey cards. Again, just like above around the late 90s game jersey cards were new and nearly impossible to find. Now we have a billion of them , and they aren't worth sh*t. So what do card companies do? That's right, DESTROY MORE stuff! Now we have game-used sticks, gloves, skates etc. Expect to see a game-worn jockstrap card soon!
This message has been edited by James_McThigh on Feb 20, 2007 1:28 AM
They suck because the market is flooded with them. If you have a 1 of 1 from one set, chances are that there are other 1 of 1's from other sets from that year of the same player. The cards today are made so well that they are grading gem mint and pristine in record numbers. I think the only good thing is the autographed card. Jersey cards and stick cards are pretty lame but people want them. I cannot explain why people are into modern cards like they are, but those who know and study the history of the sport are usually drawn to vintage. I think that these modern cards will be as close to worthless in 15-20 years while vintage will go up consistantly. The big stars of today will retain some value, but when you have 20 rookie cards of one player then you will realize that your investment was a bad one.
I don't feel sorry for people making these terrible investments into modern cards because vintage cards from ALL sports are and always will be more desirable and valuable. Too bad not everyone understands that. If you collect modern cards because that is your preference, so be it, but if you collect modern cards as an investment, you will have a rude awakening years from now. Just my 2 cents.
Crosby and Ovechkin have 18 rookie cards each. I think the total cost of all Crosby rookies is somewhere around $12,000.
The only thing I do not really like about modern cards is that there are so few sets without any short prints. I like completing a set each year but the only collector sets left are Upper Deck MVP or Upper Deck Victory. Every other set has something like 90 cards and than another 90 short printed cards.
I'm not sure that I would paint with such a broad brush. I would agree that there is a lot of crap out there but I don't think you can say that ALL modern cards suck. I mean, all of this vintage stuff was modern at one time (brilliant observation I know). I became disullisioned when one company was given a monopoly to produce NHL licensed cards; unfortunately it was a company with absolutely horrendous quality control and customer service and, maybe most importantly, one for which hockey was obviously not a priority in terms of their bottom line. So the reason I don't collect modern anymore is in large part because of where the supply is coming from. But a few years back there were a lot of players and hence more choice and I enjoyed collecting some of the new stuff, memorabilia cards included. The game-used stuff was more interesting when it was in limited supply but for some reason which I never really understood it has become the standard now - you can't have a RC of a modern player that doesn't have a swatch, it is the expectation now.
But for me it's always been about aesthetics, if it is a card that is visually appealing and something that fits with my collecting focus (and is not an UD product), I don't mind owning it; I just don't have much of a modern focus now. The exception for me is my P. Bergeron RC collection - luckily he was a rookie before the monopoly so there are several non-UD RCs for me to chase. And I'm not so sure that you can say that these cards won't appreciate, why not ? If Patrice becomes a HOFer, 6-time Stanley Cup champion (indulge me), are you telling me that his "best" RCs won't be worth big $$$ in 40 or 50 years ? That's not the primary reason I bought them and I would agree that you are taking your chances with "investing" in modern cards but I think that if you focus on limited print runs that there is a good chance that you will see a return.
anytime company's man make rarity like short prints/jersey/parallels/numbered cards etc....etc... it sucks!!! in the good old vintage days it was all about simplicity. cards with gum and a wax wrapper or a card with your pack of cigarettes. all the kids/adults are missing out on this today, also give me a break on those $100 man made short printed rare packs. the only thing i still like about todays modern stuff is the autographed cards you can pull. i personally like to collect these auto's as i feel good knowing they will be authentic forever and down the road if i want to resell them,others feel comfertable buying them as they know they are authentic. ever try selling an 8x10 signed that you got in person-the first ? i always get is---are you shure that is a real auto. it seems like you have to psa/dna to sell them,which costs more money. signed donald.
James your point about destroying stuff for those patch cards and game used stick and glove cards is what gets me. I thinks its disgusting to see all those amazing pieces of memorbilia being chopped up to put on a card. The perfect example of this type travesty is the George Vezina pad card that was in one of those sets. Chopping up a pair of his pads that date back to the early days of hockey history and are such a rarity is just not right.
Modern cards stink as they have WAY too many brands! I like the good old days of wax-packs with gum. I think it would be great if Upper Deck started to put gum in their packs! It would also be great if they stopped all the SP crap and went back to bascis.
I also don't understand how a Crosby RC can be worth $12,000.00! He has only played for 2 years - come on give me a break! How can his rookie be worth more than a Gordie Howe or a Maurice Richard!! I don't understand people that will pay that much for a "new" player - but when it comes time to buy a Richard people frek out that $1500.00 is too much.
The Crosby is worth $12,000 because that's what people are willing to pay for it. Just like some people are willing to pay 100K for a Vezina RC. The reason people are willing to pay that much for those cards is the same - to own a rare card of a famous / HOF player (true there is a certain amount of risk inherent in assuming this for Crosby but when Wayne comes out and says that he is going to break his records then you could say it is fairly mitigated). Think about the early 90s and collecting (yecchhh); Jagr, Modano, Fedorov - these guys RCs will never be worth anything, even 100 years from now, just too much product produced. Limiting print runs was IMO a brilliant business decision, you know have rare cards of current players, instant value and enticing products.
There's clearly a line that runs through the hobby, love of / passion for the game on one side; economics/gambling/chest thumping on the other. I think it's a mistake to say the the former equates to vintage and the latter to modern collecting; it's obviously not true and smacks of snobbery. You can still collect modern cards and have a passion for the game and the players you collect; you can still collect vintage with $$$ as your primary motivator. The one good thing about the deluge of modern products is that it allows one to pursue either path.
What frustrates me the most is the impossibility of completing sets in the modern age. Those of us who started collecting cards as kids, for me it was the 70s, the focus was to complete the 396 card set. It was tough but achievable and there was a sense of satisfaction when completed. My goal was to own one copy of each card printed from 1951 till the year I died. That was possible till the mid 90s. Now people buy modern boxes of cards like lottery tickets. They are hoping to land that big card which will make there $200 or more purchase worth while. I got caught up in that for several years but no more. I do try to complete the main Upper Deck set each year with the SPs but without the jerseys and inserts. Just like when I was a kid, I stil enjoy opening a pack and finding a brand new card of my favourite current players. But I now spend way more on vintage cards than modern. And that's why I went searching for sites like this one. I knew I couldn't be the only one who felt this way.
I find it very sad to watch an adult open a pack of $10.00 cards in a card shop and quickly look through the pack for the valuable cards and then move on to the next pack with the look of a crack addict. The common cards are often given away, thrown away, on put in a box to be forgotten. I remember opening a 10 cent pack in the back seat of the car and making the adventure take forever, each card getting equal attention. My double cards just as valuable for trading away to build the set, or possible hours of entertainment in the school yard....( remember farsies, knock downs, closies or the ever popular scramble )When did collecting become a treasure hunt?
Take care all,
Like a lot of people, I started out collecting modern cards. In the early 90's, things weren't so out of hand yet. You could buy a new box of Upper Deck for $29 and build most of the set. You would get plenty of rookies, and the cards that you didn't get wouldn't cost too much. Finishing the set wasn't a massive project. What I really liked was getting a few decent inserts that were easy to sell and would sometimes pay for the price of the box!
The "hot" cards would shoot up in value within the first month, stay there for 2-4 months, then start to drop. This pattern went on for a few years, but people still spent way too much on the new "hot" insert each year.
What really ruined it for me was the number of sets being produced! I liked buying a few promising rookies when the cards were affordable, but once there were 15-20 sets being produced, you didn't know which one you wanted to collect. I think it's great that the vintage players pretty much have 1 rookie card. But when new players have 10-15 rookies it becomes ridiculous.
Next is the short printed rookies! The price of a box of cards has become ridiculously high, and the odds of getting more than 1-2 rookies in a box is extremely low! The days of buying a box and building a set are gone! When you can spend $150 and up on a box of cards and not end up with any of these short printed cards, then it becomes more of a lottery than a hobby. Many times you are better off just buying the base set for a cheap price, then picking up the rookies off eBay. At least you know that you will get the card that you want.
Year after year people spend hundreds of dollars on cards of the "next great one." So far, most of those players haven't panned out the way everyone predicted. How long did it take Joe Thornton to blossom as a player? How much have his rookie cards gone up in the past 10 years? (This is just one example.)
If people spend $2000 on a Sidney Crosby rookie now and he ends up being a superstar for the next 15 seasons, with his share of great seasons and just good seasons, and has his share of injuries, and loses the limelight to younger players...how much will that $2000 card increase? How much will people be willing to spend when he isn't a 20 year old phenom? I still have a hard time seeing it as a great investment.
I could write many more pages, but I have gone on long enough! I think we all agree that there is not substitute for a beautiful card from 50-95 years ago!