I can't help but notice on so many high end cards from auctions and auction houses that SGC seems to be the mass grader for baseball cards. How come we don't respect SGC like very well known and respected baseball and basketball card collectors? Do we just go with PSA because its the "in thing to do"?
I wonder if it's because if we live in Canada we can go through Platinum Promotions to get cards graded by PSA without any customs problems. I'm not sure if any Canadian dealers are associated with SGC, nor do I know whether it's easy for a Canadian to send cards over the border to SGC. I've gone through Platinum Promotions once and it was pretty seamless.
I actually prefer SGC. I think their black backgrounds add to the artistic nature of cards and makes them nicer to display. They also grade vintage cards a little harsher than PSA so that might influence the number of cards graded.
And I certainly wouldn't recommend KSA to anyone!!!!!
I know that until I bought an SGC card (on eBay) I hadn't actually seen one in person before but once I did I was sold, I love the look and prefer them to PSA. Living in Canada and the attendent difficulties in submitting to them might explain why there aren't as many but it doesn't explain why they don't seem to command the same prices as PSA. Or maybe they do, I am only looking at a particular subset of cards, namely my collecting focus. The ones I have seen however, do seem to go for less than the equivalent grade would in PSA. Would you say that this is true overall ?
I think that you are wrong that SGC grades harder than PSA. PSA has just tightened their grading even more so what used to be PSA 9's are now 8's and what used to be PSA 8's are now 7's sometimes even 6's.
PSA has always been the grading company to get cards graded and they have been the first in the hobby. In my mind I think the SGC holders stink! They are way to fat and can't be stored very easy like PSA holders. The black background is a nice touch - but I just prefer the PSA holder over the SGC.
This message has been edited by shiftintermedia on Jul 20, 2007 8:59 PM
I think PSA's Registry has given them a substantial lead over SCG in prewar hockey. Many of us on this forum 'play' on the PSA Registry and SCG's registry is years behind and not as well set up (no link to pop reports, clunky, harder to view a sequence of scans off one set etc etc).
That said I am sending some of my baseball stuff to SCG and like their holders a lot better and have found them to be more consistant in grades (although I have a smaller sample to judge them with).
That was Ray who said that SGC graded harder than PSA, not me; although if he says so I would defer, having seen his collection of graded cards. I was talking more about the perceived value - seems to me that I have seen the same card in equivalent grades and the SGCs seem to go for less than the PSAs, that's all. But I would definitely vote for their holders over PSA, they look awesome, heavier too, more substantial. Not that the PSA ones are bad or anything, but my SGC card just seems to display better.
I prefer SGC to PSA any day of the week for consistency. PSA may have picked up their standards in the last couple of years but they were brutal up to a few years ago for consistency. I have many cards in my possesion that are all over the board....up to 2 grade points? I have never had a SGC card over or under graded.
My rap against PSA is that they do not have a 1/2 point system which I think is very important. My rap against SGC is they do not have a qualifier system which I guess is good for the collector who does not mind a slightly OC card. You can pick up some pretty sweet cards at SGC 80 that would grade PSA 7 or even PSA 8 oc.
As for the holders SGC is more pleasing to the eye but is more bulkier. Let face it...if room is an issue buy a bigger house and quit spending all you monies on cards LOL!
I have been saying for years that people will soon figure out the SGC advantage. Not quite sure what all the PSA hype is about unless you use the set registry or are grading for re-sale.
I disagree with Rob 100% in all aspects. PSA is not that inconsistant! You are make PSA sound like they are KSA!!! PSA's cards sell for more because they ARE tougher on cards then the other grading companies. Like it or not PSA is THE undisputed leader in vintage card grading - especially for hockey. You may have a bit more vintage baseball grading at SGC but not much.
Also, I think half grades are ridiculus! Either a card is a 7 or an 8 not a 7.5 or an 8.5 or whatever. SGC's holders are alway WAY to fat!
PSA cards consistantly sell for more than SGC and will continue to do so.
This message has been edited by shiftintermedia on Jul 21, 2007 2:39 PM
I disagree with Paul. I think SGC is as reputible as PSA in grading vintage hockey.I am glad that SGC uses .5 increments like BGS for modern cards. Using .5 grades distinguishes the low end from the high end cards graded at the same level. SGC holders are more appealing than PSA for pre war cards, especially when PSA puts the plastic condom on the card. I believe the driving force behind PSA graded cards selling for more money than SGC cards is their registry. High graded PSA common cards often sell for outrageous amounts solely because of the registry. Just my 2 cents.
Hey ... now we've got some differing opinions and good dialogue going. Nice to see! Sometimes controversial topics are good for conversation and traffic to a hockey site in the middle of July!
I don't play in the high end grades so I can't speak to which of PSA or SGC is more strict in terms of grading higher end stuff, or whether PSA's grading has slipped a little. Based on my limited sample size, on grades up to VG/EX, I find SGC a little tougher (especially if there are marks on the cards: PSA may give it a high grade with a MK designation while SGC will grade it no better than SGC 20). I also think SGC is more consistent and makes fewer mistakes. But perhaps there are more PSA mistakes because they grade more cards, or maybe it's because there are more PSA bashers out there who are quick to point out the mistakes.
To each his own. I prefer SGC but it's certainly not perfect.
Firstly in retort to Paul's feedback never did I say PSA is comparable to KSA...not even close. I mearly mentioned that I have in my possesion many PSA graded cards that are very inconsistent and from only a few years ago. I am not talking 1/2 a grade but 1 to 1-1/2 in my opinion. That in itself speaks for itself. As I have said in my previous note PSA is much better now with consistency!
I disagree with Paul that PSA is tougher on cards than other reputable graders and never did I dispute PSA being the industry leader? Yes they do sell for more because in my opinion PSA was the industry leader for many years and still is in fact but only due to the volume they do and the number of collectors who began with PSA and are reluctant to change. They are not the industry leader in their grading ability? Other graders are just as good. SGC,GAI,Beckett.
With respect to the holders being to fat? LOL That's a pretty lame excuse....buy a bigger house if they take up to much room. SGC holders are far superior estetically than PSA any day of the week other than being "too fat" I guess.
As for the ridiculous? 1/2 grade point system I talked about in my earlier thread Gary summed up my opinion exactly with the low and high end of the grade point system. If a 1/2 point system were in place for PSA then the cards I have owned that have the huge disparity or inconsistency would not be an issue because the grade would have been within 1/2 point and with grading being subjective I would not even question this disparity.
I guess because someone is the first to start something that their way is the only way and there can be no improvement on systems? Sounds like our governments and the way they conduct themselves.
So SGC doesn't have qualifiers ? Even more reason to put them ahead of PSA, IMO. At least with respect to centering, I always thought that it was a bit ridiculous to express your allowable criteria in percentage terms and then give a higher grade with a qualifier even though a card doesn't meet the criteria of that grade. That said, centering and other before-market flaws not being a concern to me, I like the fact that people seem to shy away from high-grade PSA cards, sometimes to an extraordinary degree, because they have an "OC" qualifier; allows me the opportunity to add some very nice cards to my collection at a good price. But what would the consensus be on how SGC handles these types of "flaws" - how do they seem to be on off-centered cards, does it seem to be reflected harshly in their grades ? Or is that where the half-grades maybe come into play more ? Anyone have an example of an SGC card that appears to be perfect save for centering ? Would be interested in seeing that.
I agree with Al! Centering is not a concern for me as well and you can pick up some sweet PSA oc cards for cheap? 59-60 Topps is prime example of SGC being hard on centering. The borders are very small on these cards and I recently sold several on eBay that were graded SGC 80 that would have had a shot at PSA 8 oc?
i agree with al and rob about the psa "oc" cards.i personally like that they sell low as the cards are very sweet to take out of the case and add to my "raw" card collection. i have bought some sweet looking cards that where not bad in centering at a very decent price this way. specially if a person collects cards as "raw" cards, the bargains are in the high grade psa "oc" cards. a few examples from my experience in buying some cards like this is - 1965-66 #128 bruins team "sp" graded a psa 8 "oc",picked it up for $100 (bargain to me) looks sweet too and not even that bad in centering,i cracked the case and put the card in my binder of my complete set. i have also picked up some sweet unmarked checklists this way along with other regular cards.
Donald, that is beyond a bargain for that Bruins team card. Was that an auction ? I am always on the lookout for that card, must have missed it if so. It's a toughie and at $100 in that condition an unbelievable deal IMO. Always on the lookout for that one !
But as for centering in general, glad to hear that others share my opinion. I've always felt that there was a distinction between before- and after-market flaws. I mean, what did the card look like when it came out of the pack ? How can you devalue an off-centered but otherwise perfect card when that is how it came in the first place ? I supposed you could argue that it might be hard to make the distinction, a card could have been damaged, marked, whatever while still in the pack but I think that the way that a card is cut falls clearly on one side of the line.
al - i got that bruins team card a few years back on ebay. believe it or not it was listed twice. first time $150 (no bites) second time $125 (no bites) after that i emailed him after the auction was over and he took $100. ***the days when you can still contact a seller after the auction was over on ebay*** LOL, he also sold me a lemaire rookie in the same shape from the same year for $40 and i then finished my 65-66 topps set as those 2 where the last 2 i needed to complete my set. but i totally agree with you about your comments. there are real terrific bargains to be had in buying the cards with qualifiers from psa they are so sweet when i crack the case and see them raw. they are pack fresh singles at half the costs or less!!!!!!