Wow. Not a single reply ... this board ROCKS !

The PSA pop report shows 8 in PSA 8 grade, and 4 in PSA 9 grade. I have never seen one up for auction in PSA 9 grade.

I was the underbidder on this card, and I bid higher than what I think the market is for the card as this is/was the 3rd time I have bid on and lost out on a PSA 8 Horton.

I think the market for this card in PSA 8 grade is around $1500.

Ray,

I think you are wrong on the price being $1500.00 as a market price. You have been out-bid three times for a reason. The card is worth more than $1500.00. I think $1800.00 is about right and $2000.00 is streaching it - but it will be work $2000.00 one day.

Paul

I disagree. On all three that I was outbid on, I was the first underbidder. If not for my bid, the winning bidder would have won the card for under $1500 every time.

It only takes 2 people to drive up the cost of a card. I do not see the value of this particular card approaching 2K in PSA 8 grade when there are already 4 graded in PSA 9 grade.

In my opinion, $1800- $2000 is too high for this card. I agree with Ray about needing only 2 bidders to force the price of a card up. I have been outbid by 1 other bidder on many occassions. If there was not the other 1 bidder or if I did not bid on the card, in most cases the card would have sold for a much lower price. It only takes 1 person with deep pockets to skew the true "market price" of a card.

Gary & Ray,

You are both right! It does only take 2 people or so to drive the cost of the card up but in Ray's past bidding for this card in PSA 8 grade he was out-bid three times. You may not think the card is worth more than $1500.00 but each time the card goes up for sale on eBay it sells for more that than $1500.00 and closer or slightly above $1800.00.

Therefore, the market price is what people are paying for the card and three past sales have been above $1500.00. So at this present time the card may not be worth $1500.00 but three previous people have paid more. In my opinion if you are looking to win a PSA 8 auction on eBay you will have to bid $1800.00. Otherwise you will be out-bid.

Many cards sell for way more than the SMR - or what people think the card is worth. I have seen some insane prices on eBay for some minor or common players. So for a HOFer in high grade like the Horton it does not surprise me at all to see it selling for this much.

Paul

I understand what you are saying Paul.

I guess my only point is that if I did not bid on any of these last 3 auctions, the card would have sold for less than $1500 in all cases. But I guess until I get one, I'll keep pushing up the prices

Ray,

Good luck in your quest of finding one - I am sure you will find one on eBay.
Good to hear that you are the one that is actually affecting the market on this card. With all the people at Beckett and PSA watching prices and market trends you may force them to increase the SMR price - HA! HA!. That is until the next person that shows up with deep-pockets.

Paul

Here is the way I see it:

Let's say an auction ends at $2,000. The under bidder might think that without his bids, the auction would have went for a lot less (let's say $1,500) - but that's not always true. There may have been people who added the auction to their watch list, and wanted to snipe it at $1,700 or $1,800. But then they see two people battling over it and see the auction go over what they are willing to pay for it, then they simply don't bid.

I know this because sometimes when everyone snipes at the end, you get different bids say ($1,600, $1,750 etc.) But if you end up in a bidding war with someone else like 30 mins or so before the auction end, then the snipers just back out. So it's not always two people who determine the market value.

Ray, did you snipe this auction and bid only once?

Yes, I only place one bid via a snipe service at the end of the auction.