Frank mentioned in another thread there should be a section for dangerous auctions and items, I think its a great idea but its more work for Jim.
What do you guys think about outting auctions on the board where everyone can see them? I know some people get mad cause they want to win their rare gems for cheaper but what if some could be advice ends up saving you more money in the long run?
I know the vintage baseball board is REALLY on the ball with this, auctions being pointed out almost daily and great reasons from a lot of people why its a fake/altered. I think its a good idea.
I post this because tonight I noticed a fishy auction, small scan, "as is". I just hate seeing people lose money daily.
I guess my "experiment" worked...
Didn't take long ...
The card is mine and legit as all all those others out there.
YES I described AS IS and am NOT hiding anything or trying to decieve anyone.
How about putting the torch out and putting the pitch fork down.
There are some collectors out there that don't beleieve in grading as some do ,so a card NOT graded does not mean a card is NOT LEGIT. From all the "horror " stories I've heard about grading companies and the cards that are put in them ,I chose not to grade or will.
I am trying to sell a card...If you don't like the terms move along.....
How about changing the mentality one carries that people are out to "get them".
Whatever happened to benefit of doubt and all that jazz. You prove to me it's what you may be SPECULATING w/ HARDCORE proof--otherwise until than...
Sorry to sound so DARN smug--just frustrated w/ this type of mentailty,I understand that in today's society all the rip off artists out there and how the "hobby" has turned into a ground for possible $$ ventures. BUT What I hate even more is all those DAMN SPECULATORS running around scared and trying to bring to attention something to others w/ nothing more than SPECULATION and their "expert" opinion.
As for the smal scan --it does say BEAR with me as I get a bigger image...
The one I had on File was not big enough
To answer your question about posting "outting"auctions--If this is all I'm going to read on a daily basis than I will have to find another Vintage Forum. I used to like looking in here now and than and reading interesting Vintage Hockey information and at times sharing my knowledge of what I know.
So I would say your idea if the people need it--Go for it but those who are looking for Vintage information than I think you'll lose a lot of visitors .
Anyway just my opinion.
This message has been edited by Vntagehky on Dec 12, 2007 10:26 PM This message has been edited by Vntagehky on Dec 12, 2007 9:07 PM This message has been edited by Vntagehky on Dec 12, 2007 8:58 PM This message has been edited by Vntagehky on Dec 12, 2007 8:41 PM
I understand the "vintage" thoughts on vintage cards, not grading is fine with me. Its just now a days why sell a card that may grade a 5 for $400 when it would grade a 5 and you'd sell it for $1500? Thats why it makes me wonder whats going on. I just don't know many people who can give away cards at 1/3 the price.
And the point of outting an auction isn't to burn people like you (solid sellers with good feedback) its to save the people from an obvious fake Gretzky rookie that I see selling 5 times a week for hundreds, even thousands of dollars. Or help point out a fake Roy card to someone who can't tell the difference (myself included).
Only trying to help others as I know the feeling of being burned.
If posting an outted auction is all you seem to want to talk about,What's the point of collecting or discussion of collecting.
I am trying hold back my comments about your "knowledge" based on your age in your profile bit at times have to consider the source as it seems like you are usaing all the means to support your "claim"
When will we see some real discussion about the collecting world from you? It's ok to say you don't know something about a particular item,That's what these boards are designed for--to discuss and spred the world of vintage hockey around w/ other guys that appreciate the stuff.
anyway--I posted my reply on the auction tooand cancelled your bid--please do not bid again,this type of personality will only lead to issues at the end of an auction,I beleieve.
Thank you for your time ANDREW and MERRY CHRISTMAS....
If you need to ever ask a questionabout a vintage item ,feel free to email me
Nice post Ron, I was going to make another comment in the other "bad seller" post but felt like whatever valid point I made I would be accused of "defending" the seller in question or his/her business practices. One of the reasons, maybe the main reason, that I like this forum is because of the expertise/experience that many of the members obviously have and I think that there are cases where this can result in real benefits to others in identifying crooked sellers - warnings about fake card auctions, for example, this is a valuable service, not everyone (myself included) knows how to recognize a fake Gretzky.
But just as there will always be unscrupulous sellers in any marketplace there will also always be gullible, indolent buyers that allow them to be successful. I just find that the the rhetoric and moral outrage exhibited here is quite often out of proportion to what a given seller is doing (or more often isn't doing). That other thread for example started with several posts identifying "red flags" regarding his auctions - well, that would be because they were patently obvious, not because anyone here has any special insight or experience that illuminated the situation.
I guess what I am saying is that I think that there is a responsibility on both sides and the "red flags" in a lot of these cases are so obvious that anyone who ignores them and spends that kind of money, without first confirming what they are actually buying, is only facilitating the kind of behavior exhibited by the seller. If someone wants to drop a significant amount of money on an auction with an obviously suspect listing, without first contacting the seller and getting more info, then I really don't have a lot of sympathy for them. Maybe there are a lot of younger people getting burned, I don't know, but I doubt that pre-teens have that kind of money to throw around.
Andrew. Although I understand what you're saying and it would help out in some cases, it would just open the board up to a million opinions on what is good and what isn't. I don't mind of people post about a card that may be fake of a warning like MW posted about a bad seller. In the end though, I don't want every fake Gretzky rookie posted here.
Ron. I have no clue what your point is. I do not know the auction in question or what card it is but if you don't want to post a proper scan of an item and insist on using terms like "as is" in the ads, perhaps ebay is not the right place for you. I'm sure you're an honest guy but you seem to think it is ok to use the exact same tactics as someone not so honest would use in thier auctions. I'm sure if you think about it for a while you'll understand where Andrew is coming from and understand that 99% of buyers will have the same concerns.
This message has been edited by hockey_jim on Dec 13, 2007 9:58 AM
I don't know what the auction is either, but what I took his point to be (and I apologize in advance if I didn't get it right) is that he didn't do anything in the auction that warrants "outting"; any deficiencies/question marks in his listing could have been resolved or investigated via an attempt by a prospective bidder to contact him, not by calling in the card cops to pore over his prior auctions and identify other examples of "suspect behavior". Maybe eBay isn't the right place for you if you simply can't help yourself and ignore things that you see as suspicious and buy something with the hopes that "everything will work out ok".
Al. I totally agree that gambling on suspect auctions will usually not have a happy ending. What I do not agree with is when someone does everything that makes an auction look suspect and then claim that potential bidders must "put down the pitchforks", which as I understand is what Ron is doing. Why should a potential bidder have to contact the seller to feel him out if it is a legit auction? You have every tool at your disposal to provide a proper photo and description of your item.
Ron. I ask you, would you bid in an auction with all the red flags that yours has? And as for your "my experiment worked" line, let me get this straight, you set up an auction with a small photo and an as is description and then have an issue when a legitimate bidder calls you out? Really?
This message has been edited by hockey_jim on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM
I don't understand the outrage over Andrew's comments. He didn't disclose which auction that he was referring to, who the seller was, or even the type of card being sold. All he said was that the scan was small and that the card was being sold "as is." Considering all of the cards being sold on eBay, I wouldn't be able to figure out which card he was talking about if I tried!
I try to be careful when bidding on cards, and if I see a raw card with a small scan I will usually avoid it altogether. It's usually easier that way.
Personally, I don't know how old Andrew is, but unless he's 15 or younger, I don't see how complaining about his lack of knowledge about the hobby, and his age, is relavent to this discussion either. The point of this Vintage Hockey Forum is for people of all ages and interests to discuss the different aspects of vintage hockey cards. This includes eBay, Mastro, and the various auction houses.
Cards listed on eBay are discussed periodically, and sometimes this discussion includes the sellers. These discussions are never meant to be personal attacks. At the same time, many people on this Forum have become friends and don't want to see other members ripped off by sellers who actually are dishonest.
I agree that this Forum shouldn't become an eBay Warning Post for every questionable card, but when a high dollar vintage card shows up that has red flags all over the place, it just seems natural for members of this Forum to point it out.