IMO this is a joke! This is nothing but a HUGE money grab by PSA, how? Because every single person that owns a high dollar card will now resubmit for a higher grade- a better investment, more resell money, more prestige. This is just furthering the hobby to investors. I'm disappointed in this move. How will this affect the pop reports now? They will go through the sky won't they? For example if there is 10 C55 Vezinas (JUST AN EXAMPLE I KNOW ITS NOT RIGHT) say there are 3 PSA 4's, 5 PSA 5's and 2 PSA 7's. Now those 7's could go into get regraded along with the 5's. Say a couple of those come back higher, now instead of the "true" 10 rare cards we have 13, almost bringing the value down. Do you think this could bring down the value of SP cards?
Also someone on the baseball forum mentioned the big card- what would the Wagner sell for if it was an 8.5? I think it sold for $2.1 million at 8, could it hit $3 million if its an 8.5?
Just my thoughts,
This message has been edited by Hockeyguy_49911 on Jan 16, 2008 10:33 PM
I actually think this is a good thing and I'll tell you why. I have submitted alot of cards that were "tweeners". These are mostly cards in the 6-7 range. Let's say I send in 10 of these cards, cards that are better than your typical 7 but don't quite cut it as an 8. Half would get the 7 and half would get an 8. So I sell these cards and half the people think, "what a nice 7" and the other half think "what a crappy 8". I do think there was a need for half grades between 5's and 7's. I think that this should help improve the overall quality of cards graded an 8. Where the trivial part will still exist is between 8's and 8.5's and then 8.5's and 9's.
PS: As for the pop report, if you send a card in hopes of a bump and receive one, the old grade will be erased from the report and the new grade added. If you crack a card out and send it in raw, you have always been able to send in the flips and they are supposedly removed from the pop report. I've never tried this though.
"Keep in mind that a card that reaches a half-point grade is considered an exceptional example within the particular grade. In other words, the half-point does not represent the mid-point between grades. It is a way of distinguishing between average cards within the grade and ones that exhibit premium quality. Furthermore, cards that do not achieve the half-point increase and remain at the whole number grade are not viewed as “low-end” for the grade by PSA experts."
So if the .5 does not mean .5, then what purpose does including a numerical distinguishment between it and the average whole grade serve?
If they were going to introduce improvements to their grading, I can think of many ways in which they could improve, but grading "exceptional cards within a grade" wouldn't be at the top of my list.
I want consistent grading, and I don't want wax stains or 80-20/diamond cut centering in 8 nq's.
I agree with Andrew 100%. This is a bs move driven by the fact that PSA had huge operating losses last quarter. I own a lot of PSA slabs and I feel they have just devalued a good portion of my collection. They have decided that there is a somewhat limited number of new submissions in the collecting world so they are trying to get some percentage of the millions of cards already graded to be resubmitted for a possible 'bump.'
From now on any new sets I have for submission will go to SGC.
I agree that it's a move for more resubmissions and for more money coming in. It's too bad. Seems like they are showing some decision making weakness by changing their own standards by adding half grades after all these years. Who knows, maybe the next thing will be changing around the grading scales themselves. People depend on this company for consistency. That seems pretty much out the window.
I have to somewhat agree. I do think that this is a money grab which will cause alot of us to resubmit, especially if you are the #1 or #2 on the registry.
Here is a thought along the same lines as what Andrew said. The only things that PSA had going for it was the registry's popularity and the fact that they were first. We all agree that their grading can be sketchy at times. SGC has always had half grades. So, is it reasonable to state that SGC has always been grading cards more accurately, and in fact they were visionary ahead of PSA in this area.
Also, the fact that they give a value out of 100 (SGC 86= 7.5) that you will actually be able to understand in the calculations may lead to that registry being more popular. The SGC holders are far superior and fit the cards far better than PSAs cheap pieces of plastic.
Maybe the folk at BMW Sportscards should be applauded for their switch awhile ago. Any thoughts on the possible superiority of SGC now with collectors.
I think for years SGC has been the choice of the baseball world, maybe this will switch us over? It is on my mind thats for sure. Since I am only working on one set it wouldn't cost me $1,000's to switch over 36 cards....
I agree with both Jim and Andrew. It will cause havoc with the registry #'s and thus card values and IMO probably was given the thumbs up mainly because of the revenue it could generate for the company along with finally realizing a good thing.
Now about the 1/2 point system! I have been a long time beleiver in the 1/2 point system or what SGC does. SGC is far more consistent and their holders are nicer although bulkier which can be a downfall. Now is this consistency due to their point system...possibly but that just proves it works for all!
With the exception of what it could do to valuations on some big item cards I think it is a good thing. Finally.
This announcement pretty much does it for me. I've been collecting for over 40 years and started having all my cards PSA graded in 1991. It will take awhile, but am selling out and giving up the hobby.
I totally hear what your saying, if I had investments in PSA I would be buying a new car, they will possibly make a fourtune of this but I think the companies in hobbies need to realize part of their job isn't just money, its customer service. They said theyve been begged to add a .5 system. I don't know anyone thats really asked for it. BVG and SGC offered it. Thats what made PSA stand out, it was different. Now its exactly like SGC except its harder to reach, has worse customer service and costs more, so is the registry the only reason why people use it? Did people know SGC also has a registry? And it has some very impressive sets, including pre war hockey on it.
When I started collecting graded cards many years ago, I bought PSA, SGC, and KSA. I liked the fact that KSA and SGC had half grades, but I soon realized that KSA had lost all credibility. I sold my KSA cards and replaced all that I could.
I still liked SGC, but I was told by collectors and dealers alike that SGC just didn't have the resell value of PSA, so I crossed over my SGC cards to PSA. I lost a few half points, but I accepted that.
In a way I wished that PSA would add .5 grades, but I eventually got over that and accepted the PSA grading system. Over the past 1-2 years I have spent a lot of money buying higher end PSA graded cards, mostly for my C56 set. I paid a lot for some of the PSA 5's in my set, since they were close to being the highest graded example in some cases. (The 6's and occasional 7's were rare and out of my price range.)
Now I have to consider whether or not I should resubmit some of my cards for the "chance" of picking up a .5 on the grade!) I would prefer to spend my hard-earned cash on more cards, but the PSA Set Registry has added a level of competition among collectors so there is added pressure to send previously graded cards back to PSA, just to have a second look!
At this point, I am against this! PSA has outlasted most of the other grading companies, and SGC is their only real competition amond vintage collectors. Beckett still has a following among some collectors, but overall PSA appears to be on top! So why would they totally redesign their grading system? Why cave in to be like everyone else?
Obdiously this is a way to bring in more cash, but I hate to see PSA adopt the Wal Mart philosophy of business!
If they want to attract more business, stop charging collectors an annual fee! I realize that this brings in revenue, but without that $100 each year, I could afford to get more cards graded. Also, other collectors who go through Beckett or SGC could submit cards to PSA.
I'm curious as to what effect this will have on the hobby.
Will eBay be swarmed with new cards that are 7.5 and 8.5? Will collectors actually swarm to these cards? Will there be fewer PSA 10's and more PSA 9.5's now?
I hear ya but your card is still your card, the card condition will not change, maybe just the grade, now you might get a 7.5 instead of a 7 if
you wish to submit or resubmit, doesn't that sound like a good thing.
The range in price between a grade sometimes makes it hard for some people to afford, now the mid-grade will possibly be affordable to those who couldn't buy before.
The 100 bux PSA charges for a yearly fee is nothing if your a collector of C56 cards...really.
You can't blame the company for the competition that the people bring, its like blaming McDonalds for a heart attack because they made the french fries so good and you ate too many.
This message has been edited by BobbyBHockey on Jan 17, 2008 4:33 PM
i'm with mark and andrew this thing is going to be a big money grab for psa. however it also shows that psa grading system was flawed because prices from one whole grade to the next where to great. it shows that sgc had it right all along. all my cards are sgc and one of the reasons is the 1/2 point grading system. as for my own collection they can have the registry but i think that psa 1/2 point grading system may compete against some of my baseball cards since i'm tied for finest known with psa 8 and sgc 88. i can envision a 1/4 point grading system in the future by both firms which on the surface looks ridiculous but some cards with 1/2 point grades can have 20k difference in value(from one half grade to another). signed fessgreg
"In order for a card to be considered for the half-point increase, it must exhibit qualities that separate it from the average card within the particular grade. In general, the CENTERING may be the MOST important factor in achieving the half-point increase with eye-appeal being so crucial in the grader evaluation. Since CENTERING is so IMPORTANT and clearly VISIBLE to most collectors, the strength or weakness of the CENTERING will have a significant impact on the final outcome."
Elmar has it right, even though a lot of people will be busting their cards out and sending them back in, it would at least give them some semblance of credibility if they provided a free "re-appraisal". Not likely.
I just received a small order from PSA yesterday. Those cards were graded under the old rules. Now PSA has changed the rules and those cards may deserve a .5 bump. I just paid to get them graded! If I had waited, those cards might have qualified for the .5 bump.
For years PSA bragged about their 10 point grading system. Now they have abandoned that system for a modified system that more closely resembles the Backett system. It's similar to SGC too really, but SGC uses the 100 point grading system. (Which isn't completely true. They actually use steps within the 100 point system, which breaks down to full grades and half grades from 1-10.)
It's just hard to respect PSA for a move like this after they stuck by their guns for all those years.
Now PSA wants me to pay again to get that same graded card graded again?
My peev, first we paid to get them graded on a stringent grading-scale now there implementing a new one. Just don't seem right to me.
Or are they admitting that they have screwed up on grading on so many cards. That now it's profitable to correct all there errors and charge for it. Nice operation "We screw-up and profit from that"
Is'nt this just paying twice for the "same service." Or is it a totally different service. I think not!
Let's say you've got 20 cards to send in right now. Is the service going to be any better. Just because of the 1/2 grades. I would say NO. We will see just as many undergraded/overgraded cards as before.
Is the flip somehow going to change to show when the card was graded. Dont count on it.
So now everyone will be looking for cards to bump .5 and reap the profit.
Let's say 10% of all PSA8's are maybe good for a bump to 8.5
$6.00 x How many cards = Big dollars for PSA
I like the fact that you can make some $$$ on finding cards to regrade. But dont like the fact that my cards that won't bump the 1/2 a grade will go down in value.
I just think notice would have been nice. I sent off a C56 card to PSA, It will in my mind be a PSA 6MC card, HOWEVER in 2 weeks that card could have been a 6.5MC card so why wasn't I offered the would you like it graded higher in 2 weeks wait for the same price? Thats what really "grinds my gears" Ha. Someone mentioned it, they should have said starting Feb 1st 09!
Now we'll be seeing Gretzky rookies on Ebay with titles like "GRETZKY ROOKIE PSA 8.5 POP 1" The asking price will be through the roof. The move maybe a warning flag. PSA's quarterly earnings could be a result of the US's slowing economy, but that is a whole other topic.
My take on this situation is this. If the card is in your collection it is still the same card and probably meets or exceeds your collection needs so why regrade it? Unless it is for bragging rights then I guess you would just have to do it to stroke your ego. The main reason to regrade a card is for resale. If you do get the 0.5 the $$$ realized is well worth the $6 you paid.
PSA is betting that there will be big price gap between 8's and 8.5's... the bigger the gap, the better chance collectors will resubmit their cards... not only for star players but for commons as well...
I'm betting the the first PSA 8.5 card to hit Ebay will be a perfectly 50-50 centered baseball HOF star player... what better way to generate interest...
it will be interesting to see how the market reacts...
A few people have discussed the $6 fee for regrading cards. That may be true for mid priced cards if you are using a bulk fee or special, but many cards will be valued over $500 and will require a much higher fee. If you have a really nice PSA 8 high dollar card that you feel deserves the .5 upgrade, it could cost you $50 to $100 for the submission. If you get the .5 bump, then you will make your money back in resell, but if it comes back still a PSA 8, then you just made a gift to PSA!
I agree, this could create something of a frenzy on eBay in the short term, but we will just have to see.
Remember ,we are buying the card not the holder. Unless of course, you are in a cut-throat competition on the Set Registry. Talk about the marketing ploy of all time.
There is a wide range of prices for a given card in the same grade now, eventually an average price gets established. I gladly pay a slight premium for a nicely centered card in PSA 8 (moot point for a PSA 9 or 10)......these 1/2 grades are only going to impact the mid ranges grades and pre war.
There is very little demand for a PSA 6 cards in the cards I specialize in, late 1960's hockey. I don't think it would impact a great deal if the card was a 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5, except for the centering. The corners will probably be the same.