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When A Grade is not A Grade

December 16 2008 at 10:37 PM

Bobby  (Login BobbyBHockey)
moderators

Purchased a PSA 8.5 1965 Topps Checklist from a large Canadian Dealer on ebay and there was no picture of the back of the card but there was of the front. I noticed a smudge but assumed it was the scanner or the holder.

When I got this card, I see two stains, one on the front and one exactly opposite on the back, how does PSA miss this and how could someone sell this knowing of these defects, with no refunds on third party graded cards.

Always ask for a scan of the back of a graded card as you never know what is hiding that is missed (?) by a grading company or what a dealer will not disclose to you.

See for yourself.

[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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Dan Basso
(Login tripoli99)

what did the dealer say?

December 17 2008, 1:54 PM 

What did this, so far un-named, dealer say about the smudges? It almost looks like someone with dirty fingers held it there....perhaps the grader was in mid-donut when he was grading it...either way, I can see that you would be upset at this....and when you are paying this level of cash for a card, you deserve 100% satisfaction

 
 
Earl Strohmeyer
(Login strohman)

Customer Satisfaction

December 17 2008, 2:23 PM 

I can see why many dealers would say "No Refunds" when it comes to graded cards, but they are usually fairly consistent. That being said, I have seen many examples of a PSA 7 or 8 that I wasn't completely happy with.

If you are a repeat customer and someone who spends a lot of money on cards, I would think that the dealer might want to make an exception to this rule every once in a while, especially when there is an obvious discrepancy in this card that you had no way of knowing about. If you were constantly complaining about cards, then he might want to stick to his policy, but if this is a 1 time event, then he should offer a refund.

I don't know if this dealer tried to avoid showing the smudge, or if he just doesn't usually show scans of the back of the card. Most people don't scan both sides. But if the dealer didn't seem to care about the flaw, then I would have to consider buying my cards from someone else. The only problem is that you can't always find the same card at the next dealer. Many cards only come along every once in a while.

Have you spoken to the dealer yet? I would be curious as to his response when he sees the scan of both sides. I hope that you will keep us informed Bobby.

Earl

 
 
henry
(Login opctopps)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 4:51 PM 

hey,that checklist was on ebay a few weeks ago.gerry's sports cards was the seller.boy i am glad you out bid me on that checklist.
a big time dealer like him should give you your money back.
also,i just do not trust psa anymore with there grading,they are so inconstant with there grades these days.i guess they are getting greety to make more money as sellers keep re-submitting there cards over and over again.
i will be buying more SGC graded cards in the future as i do not care about the registry on PSA i just want to buy the players i like from a good grading company like SGC. my 2 cents *****

 
 
Joe
(Login JOE-1)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 8:00 PM 

I came across this PSA 6 errrrrrrrr ~ i mean PSA 8 the other day .........(freakin brutal)


not sure how well it shows up here ........but it's 250344651495 if someone wants to make a donation.


Photobucket

 
 
Elmar
(Login esb1922)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 8:09 PM 

How about this? -

[linked image]

 
 

Gilles
(Login GillesRen)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 8:35 PM 

You've got to be kidding!!

This Richard has been graded PSA5!? LOL!, I'm not an expert in low grade cards
but it looks like it would not even make the PSA2 grade.

What's wrong with the Orr? Would it be the soft bottom left corner or the right
rough cut edge?

My contribution on the thread. A 1960 Topps I bought last year on EBay. The seller
provided only a low res scan and it appeared like a scratch on the holder. I
obviously got the surprise when I opened up the parcel:

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

 
 

Donald
(Login danthevintageman)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 9:06 PM 

here are 2 other psa miss grades.
1968 Topps orr #2 psa 5 (3 sharp corners,nice surface and edges,just one corner with a little touch,no marks and super clean back) looks like a 6 or possible 7.
1965 Topps blake #1 psa 6 (all 4 corners have wear and bottom right corner area has an indented line but not a crease) looks like a psa 5 to me.

so the orr is worse than the blake?
PSA USA = KSA CANADA
SGC is #1

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

 
 

Bobby
(Login BobbyBHockey)
moderators

turd party grading

December 17 2008, 9:50 PM 

Oh yes, it is now wise to ask for better scans of graded cards and not just ungraded because if there are mistakes, some people or some dealers will sell them and state the claim no refunds on third party graded cards.

Some dealers are all about the money and don't care about you or your opinion, just the bux baby. At this point I will see the dealer at the next show and confront him, its not like I am some chump....but looks like I am.

Maybe the seller will see this post and make good or next step is going to contact PSA and try to get a refund from them, see what Joe Orlando says.

Nice to see the other post, misery loves company and PSA has been quite disapointing over the past couple of years...had 4 orders in the last year and a half and everyone of the orders had an error, WHICH required me to send it back or crack it open...!?!

I will never use psa again, I would take a small hit with SCG which is closing fast.




 
 

(Login strohman)

Grading Companies

December 17 2008, 11:07 PM 

I used to buy PSA, SGC and KSA cards, then after getting involved with this forum everyone told me to stick with PSA. So, I sold my KSA cards, (good choice) and I traded or crossed over my SGC cards and now all of my cards are PSA.

Lately, everyone has been complaining about PSA and now everyone seems to be into SGC! I do like SGC, but I also like consistency in my collection. Honestly, grading is a subjective industry and I'm sure that PSA has a lot of people grading their cards. It's just natural that there is going to be some inconsistency among the thousands of cards being submitted. I'm a teacher and I'm a little on the tough side, but I teach with some people who are easy graders. They pass out A's to any student who shows some level of effort, while other teachers examine every essay under a microscope and are very tough. Even then, it's still a subjective job.

I don't want to defend PSA--at the prices they charge it's fair to expect consistency, but we are dealing with human beings so expect more of this kind of thing in the future.

 
 
Joe
(Login JOE-1)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 17 2008, 11:56 PM 

Earl ........
"Honestly, grading is a subjective industry and I'm sure that PSA has a lot of people grading their cards. It's just natural that there is going to be some inconsistency among the thousands of cards being submitted."

Yes but what a crock!!
it is subjective and opinions will differ BUT we're not talking about the differences between an 8.5 or a 7.5 or the difference between an "A" or a "B" grade on an essay ... if you will. That's one heck of a HUGE MISTAKE if you ask me....... honestly how can the grader miss the stain?? there's no subjectivity there ~~ IT'S THERE OR IT'S NOT !!! Maybe they need better trained qualified graders, maybe they need to hire more people ~ who knows?? ~~ PSA needs to PONY UP, as we're talking about hundreds of dollars at stake here, thats why they charge a fee. The real issue though is the rise in volume of glaring mistakes being made and how they plan on dealing with it.


 
 
Joe
(Login JOE-1)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 18 2008, 12:07 AM 

BobbyB .......

In a "Perfect World" ~ sellers disclose defects missed by the grading companies.

Your only recourse is with PSA, and not the seller !!

 
 

Gilles
(Login GillesRen)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 18 2008, 8:24 AM 

if you intend to have a recourse with PSA, you better hurry-up!

Look at CLCT stock chart and see how much money they are loosing every Quarter, lol!

 
 

(Login mapnwpa)

grading

December 18 2008, 8:30 AM 

I'm probably in over my head here, but I guess I'm somewhere in the middle on this topic. I think we probably can agree that KSA grades are very unreliable (I bought a KSA 4 card that was a 1-2 at best). PSA does seem to be having more inconsistency. But, I do agree with Earl that human error can occur, no matter how much you try to avoid it. I have an Ironstone RC graded 30 by SGC, no qualifiers, but he has half of a "mustache" on his face! How could a grader miss that? I think SOME errors are going to occur with any company, but SGC is probably the best bet.
By the way, does anyone have any other examples of SGC errors?

If this comment is off-base, please be kind. I don't have the experience some of you guys have. David

 
 

(Login kehfee)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 18 2008, 2:27 PM 

Yes every grader makes mistakes as its human error. With SGC they will actually entertain your concerns with a grade. PSA doesn't give two wiffs what you think about their grades or assessment.

 
 

(Login aro67)

Re: When A Grade is not A Grade

December 18 2008, 10:12 PM 

I have had PSA compensate me for grading errors including a Hamilton Gum Howie Morenz card that they graded a 4 VGEX with a typed number on the front. Good luck if you try to get compensation.

 
 
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