I know what your thinking, however, the 1962-63 Topps box that was sold on ebay last week is a redo of the 1961-62 Topps box with just a color change, so if they duplicated these two years in a way, why not the years prior?
I'm going to throw in a wild guess here and argue that the wrapper is from 1958-59. Here's my crazy logic:
The wrapper, to me, appears to show a picture of a darker-skinned hockey player. In January, 1958, Willie O'Ree played in his first NHL game. For the 1958-59 season, Topps might have chosen to commemorate this by representing him on the wrapper. By 1959-60, he'd been back in the minors for a while, so this wouldn't make as much sense. Of course, you might ask, why then is he not on a hockey card for that year? Well, he only played 2 games in 1958, and was not with a major league team by early 1959.
OK, this may be over the top, but just an idea. David
David, I like the way you think, its out there as a possibility but I don't know it will hold much water and try to prove it would be impossible.
Dave, Topps held the licience on the cards, as they always did from 1954 up and until 1961, then they would say printed in Canada but still with the Topps name on the card, certainly had to do with the liciencing.
One of the most interesting parts is that the bottom of the box says Somerville Packaging, which was the original company that was OPC before OPC. The 1957 box had Topps printed in the USA and the 1960 box went back to Topps printed in USA.
Then in 1961 and up, OPC was printed on the bottom of the box being made and distributed in Canada.
Thanks Bobby. My never ending quest to ID every Topps (and OPC related) card from 1948-80 and collect a type example of each does not yet include a lot of information or examples of hockey, or Canadian issues generally. I am more impressed every time I look into the variety of cards issued north of the border, OPC or otherwise.
A question-does the big Toronto Hockey card show also have a lot of Canadian issues outside of hockey? I may want to try and attend someday, having read about it for years. Was it Red Wimmer that used to write about it in SCD years ago?
As always, Bobby has cool and interesting stuff to share.
If I was 10 years old in 1959 I would be 60 today. If thousands, if not tens of thousands, of young kids collected 1959 topps, then why doesn't anyone remember anything about the packs? Is there any way to tap into the non-collecting adults who have decent memories of their childhood? I don't think many are actively repressing hockey card pack busting (unless they hoarded 100 Hull's and then threw them out).
Similar questions have been posed many times in the last few years on this board, but I have to ask it again.
Dave, yes, the show has many different other sports although not like it use to, coming to the show would be an experience for sure and you would definately pick up some neat stuff, so we'll see you in May?
Nathanael, I talked with the guy who had the wrapper in question, he said he remembers opening packs then but sometimes (as we get older) our memory is in question.
I wrote an article about in the Canadian Sports Magazine on the York Peanut Butter transfers of the 1960's and what people swear they remember or saw....I will post it for all to see.
Ah, I am unlikely for this May but would like to attend sometime; I'm most likely hitting the National in Cleveland this year instead. If this is the website, it looks impressive: http://www.sportcardexpo.com/
that box and wrapper is a perfect match. WHY?
look at the player on the wrapper and then look at the player on the box,almost the same. also the players along the bottom lip have that same red and black uniform player.
HOCKEY letters are in the same font too !!
for my guess of year i would have to say 1958-59 because when you look at the back of a 58-59 topps card it was that green colour that is present in the HOCKEY font on the front of the box.
i guess we will only confirm which box or wrapper is what when the other missing link box and wrapper appear,hopefully soon!
I will throw my 2 cents into this thread. One thing I am curious about is did Topps do the same thing way back then as in more recent times with hockey, did they issue in the fall? I am curious because 62-63 box recently sold on eBay was clearly dated Aug 10/62.
If that was the case, this would be what has been commonly called 59-60. One interesting thing for me is that it does not look to have been common practice for Topps/O-Pee-Chee to put a date on their display boxes. Interesting it was done that way on this box.
Don't forget that even if this is a '58 or a '59 set that it would have only been Topps' 3rd or 4th entry into the hockey market. 1954 and 1957 Topps did NOT have the years printed on the boxes. (I have pics of them.) In fact, Topps/OPC did not start regularly putting the years on their boxes until the 1984-85 sets and the first to do so- aside from box we're debating- was the 1979-80 OPC set.
Regarding dating on boxes, Topps did start dating their boxes in 1966-67 with the test issue, the coding was put on all sports and non-sports boxes/wrappers by Topps in 1967 right up into the 1990's and beyond.
The 1967-68 hockey box was an OPC product and did not have the codes on the boxes/wrappers, this was an exclusive topps thing, however in 1969-70 OPC had codes on the wrappers, a slight oversite when they recieved the printing designs from Topps and modified it as they usually did.
I think the only other year OPC had them again on the wrappers was 1989-90, weird how it was 20 years to the date this rare occurance happened.
Codes on wrapper and boxes are defined like this, using the year 1969-70 as an example:
The wrappers first number signifies a wrapper as being "0", the second group of 3 numbers represent a hockey issue, the next 2 number are unknown as to what they represent. The next 2 number then represent a series (which was always a "01" in hockey except for only one time in 1974 when they had two different wrappers and a "02" was allocated). And finally the last number represents the last date in the year such as 1969 key number being "9".
The box numbers are basically represented almost the same, "1" represents being a box, second group of 3 numbers represent a hockey set. The next group of 2 number represent the box count "37" meant a 24 count box, (they later went to a 36 count which was display as "70"). Next 2 number are the series and finally again, the last number is the year.
Going a bit further you would see codes on cases allocated by a "2" at the beginning, "3" uncut sheet,"4" was inserts, "5" advertisements, etc...
You can sometimes see the codes on the 1969-70 stamp pairs, 4-467-04-01-9, I don't know what the "04 stands for as that number is difficult to figure out on almost all of the other items like sheets, insert, etc...
It then gets more complicated but I hope this satified the question, although I probably went too far but its hard to explain a little without going into it alot.
This message has been edited by BobbyBHockey on Feb 6, 2009 9:08 AM This message has been edited by BobbyBHockey on Feb 6, 2009 9:03 AM This message has been edited by BobbyBHockey on Feb 6, 2009 8:58 AM
I have long thought that both years had the same wrapper and probably the same box? Just my 2 cents. Also I had in my collection some time ago a card/gum vending machine that had some 1958-59 cards inside the glass windows on the front. It was purchased like this. This lends me to beleive that the rarity of wrappers for these years is that vending cards were issued. Not sure if others have noticed, but 1959-60 hockey is very abundant...more so that any other year thus lending towards the vending issue?
I was doing a routine search and turned up this image. I believe this is another late 50's "Topps" OPC wrapper. The guy I exchanged emails with, thought this was 59 Topps.
I no longer have a copy of the scan that accompanied Bobby's earlier post but this seems to be a different wrapper or perhaps an ad variation of the wrapper in that post. It certainly is better condition than what I remember about the earlier scan.
By the way, does anyone have a scan of the original wrapper from Bobby's post?
Hi Rick, This is the same wrapper that Bobby had put up earlier. I currently own this one and I took it out of storage to compare it with the image you posted. Everything is the same including the folds etc. The only discrepancy between yours and mine is that someone (Bobby?) has digitally filled in the hole that is on my wrapper. You can see the slight difference of the yellow just right of the number 4 in the ad piece.
If you need me to put up a scan of my wrapper I would be happy to so..just say the word!
Well that certainly is one thing I remember about the wrapper I saw a couple years ago on eBay. It was less than prestine and certainly had a hole/tear. So this image has been photo-shopped. I just didn't remember that ad.
No need to send me a scan. This one will do for my archives.
Send me a note though if you have scans of some other rare wrappers. If I can't own one, at least I would like a scan for my archives.
Rick, i sent you that photo of that wrapper.
It is still not known if that is a 1958 or 1959 wrapper but it is one of those years,
we just can not confirm that wrapper unless both boxes and wrappers are found from 1958-59 and 1959-60.
My guess is still 1958-59.
See photo of the 1958-59 box beside this wrapper.
The fonts are the same and the player's image is just like the ones on the box.
Look at the player under "Bubble",a close match.
Current Topic - 1958 and or 1959 Topps Box & Wrapper Find